Advanced IT Jobs

DerekAustin26

How do I get my foot in the door for more advanced IT jobs?
I have my A+ Cert and about 5 yrs experience in IT. Mostly Desktop Support/Helpdesk Exp and 8 months in the NOC. I want to get a more advanced/better paying IT job other than just a stupid helpdesk all the time! How do I get my foot in the door for these other jobs that are more technical/marketable than just helpdesks. Seems that they are harder to find and harder to get an interview for. I cant just sit around and look for these types of jobs for months without a job so how do you go about getting into one of these types of jobs?

Please let me know. Thanks

WilliamK99

Your best bet is to attempt a more advanced certification, as A+ is not a certification that will help you when you attempt to get a more advanced level job. Decide in which field you want to specialize in (Security/MS/Cisco) and begin studying and learning that field....

djhss68

CCNA. Do it.

brad-

I would guess you need to start looking into server/network administration.

If that is the case, start with the MS tests for Server 2k3 or 2k8. If you like it, get the MCSA or MCITP. Or, as mentioned, you could go straight to CCNA if you like networking.

Perhaps you might be interested in database administration. Look into Oracle, SQL 2k5 or 2k8.

One thing these boards often overlook is working for proprietary software/hardware companies. If you have a software company that needs support or QA, I wouldnt ignore that opportunity.

Aldur

As many people have said, your best course of action would be to get certified. Getting certified shows the potential employer that you have knowledge in that field and will get you those sought after interviews.

The more advanced certification you have the more advanced job placement you can look at. Especially when you look at your lab exams, such as JNCIE or CCIE, that takes a hands on approach to an exam. These exams show potential employers that you can do the work, not just memorize book materials.

DerekAustin26

Ok thanks guys... I am currently working on my CCNA.

blargoe

I took the path of working at smaller companies wearing multiple hats where the same guy answering the phone would also be the guy working over the weekend to upgrade the email server. As I moved on, I took jobs that progressively were more "admin" and less "support".

rsutton

blargoe wrote: »

I took the path of working at smaller companies wearing multiple hats where the same guy answering the phone would also be the guy working over the weekend to upgrade the email server. As I moved on, I took jobs that progressively were more "admin" and less "support".

This has worked well for me also.

Forsaken_GA

djhss68 wrote: »

CCNA. Do it.

It amuses how everyone seems to think that the CCNA is a magic bullet to a better career. I know so many people who put in the time and effort to get their CCNA's only to discover that they absolutely hate networking.

It's a whole other world, and very unforgiving of mistakes. If your goal in getting Cisco certified is a bigger paycheck and not because you actually enjoy connecting things and making them talk to other things on a global scale, you're in for a big letdown

Forsaken_GA

blargoe wrote: »

I took the path of working at smaller companies wearing multiple hats where the same guy answering the phone would also be the guy working over the weekend to upgrade the email server. As I moved on, I took jobs that progressively were more "admin" and less "support".

This is probably the best path to take, even if you're doing it for no extra pay. You can't buy hands on experience, so if you ever get the opportunity for it, leap on it, even if it means giving up a day off and receiving no monetary compensation in return.

networker050184

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

It amuses how everyone seems to think that the CCNA is a magic bullet to a better career. I know so many people who put in the time and effort to get their CCNA's only to discover that they absolutely hate networking.

It's a whole other world, and very unforgiving of mistakes. If your goal in getting Cisco certified is a bigger paycheck and not because you actually enjoy connecting things and making them talk to other things on a global scale, you're in for a big letdown

My thoughts exactly. So many people think the CCNA is their meal ticket to a wonderful high paying job. Its just becoming another "must have" for newbies.

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. So many people think the CCNA is their meal ticket to a wonderful high paying job. Its just becoming another "must have" for newbies.

IT was mine:D

blargoe

9 years ago, CCNA got me hired as an intern or at least played a large part in the hiring decision. It also got me in the door for an entry level position with a large IT organization (however, as my luck would have it, the company ended up laying off tens of thousands the very week I was to sign on, and implemented a hard freeze in new hires)

I don't think CCNA is as valuable today.

Forsaken_GA

blargoe wrote: »

9 years ago, CCNA got me hired as an intern or at least played a large part in the hiring decision. It also got me in the door for an entry level position with a large IT organization (however, as my luck would have it, the company ended up laying off tens of thousands the very week I was to sign on, and implemented a hard freeze in new hires)

I don't think CCNA is as valuable today.

Part of the reason that it's not as valuable today is because of the mentality of 'get your CCNA and make $$$$!' mentality that pervades. That brought about a large amount of popularity for the cert, which in turn led to companies realizing they could make bank by selling brain **** of the test answers, which led to a glut of people passing the test and devaluing it. This is, of course, not unique to Cisco certs, but to certifications in general. Microsoft suffers from the same malady.

There's a reason why the most common answer to the 'how do I get ahead in IT' questions in this forum is 'get a help desk job and get more experience.' Too many companies have been burned by people that dumped their way through the exams and then can't actually do the job, to the point where having the alphabet soup on your resume just says that you *may* have an aptitude for the things that certification tests for.

I'm obviously not knocking certification. I'm actively pursuing my own cert path, but too many people think that they get a reward for 'winning' by passing an exam, when they've already been rewarded with the knowledge that allowed them to pass the exam. Employers want the skill set, not the letters next to your name.

briangl

I thought that the CCNA would be the one to open doors for me. Not so. And I do have the aptitude. I scored in the high 90’s in my Cisco Net Academy classes and loved it. I have been trying to get into the IT field for 10 years. What other certs should I go for? I was studying Server 2003 trying to complete at least my MCSA, but I have become so discouraged that I have kind of fizzled out on studying. Would I be better off continuing MS certs or Cisco? I love the networking stuff, but thought I would try to be more well rounded at first, just to get in.

blargoe

If you like networking and have the aptitude, then by all means continue on with Cisco certifications and training. Do you have any IT experience today? If not and you just want in the door, maybe a helpdesk/call center job working for an ISP or some other NOC environment would be a start as opposed to a generic helpdesk role.

GAngel

networker050184 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. So many people think the CCNA is their meal ticket to a wonderful high paying job. Its just becoming another "must have" for newbies.

Working in a NOC years ago was the worst job I ever had

knownhero

I dont have CCNA but I work with two people that have just got theirs. Even they said it was a kind of waste. We work in NOC admin servers etc and NEVER get hands on with CISCO. So when they go to interviews for another job. Not having experiance with actual switches and junk kind of limits the chances of getting work.

mikej412

blargoe wrote: »

I don't think CCNA is as valuable today.

I think the CCNA itself is fine.

It's the **** CCNAs that are less valuable -- along with the clueless HR wonks and managers that hire them and them "blame the CCNA Certification."

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

Part of the reason that it's not as valuable today is because of the mentality of 'get your CCNA and make $$$$!' mentality that pervades.

Ah -- and the training centers that profit from getting idiots to sign up for overpriced training so that they "can get the money you deserve" are another reason for the "less valuable" perception for the CCNA.

While it's easy to find CCNAs to apply for an entry level position, it's still hard to find a GREAT CCNA (and sometimes even just a Good one).

A CCNA is a commodity -- a batch of Cisco Network Academy graduates should be starting classes now/soon and will be hitting the market in 9-10 months from the Community Colleges. The people in the classes who do the work, learn, and get the good grades will get the jobs. And then they hopefully prove themselves on the job and move up (or out to another company) -- and the cycle starts over with the next batch....

A CCNA is a career starting point.... not a golden meal ticket.

Aldur

mikej412 wrote: »

A CCNA is a career starting point.... not a golden meal ticket.

Ahh words of wisdom there for ya.

Any entry level cert is a starting point. I remember when I was in college the CCNA was touted as the Alpha and Omega of certs. The mentality was that if you get this cert then you'll be set for life... Seriously I remember some classmates saying that if you had your CCNA you'll be pulling 60-80k a year starting out

The CCNA is a great starting point for anybody interested in networking. Hell, I learned that I loved internetworking by taking CCNA classes in college. But it's a career starting point, not a career ending point.

Now the JNCIA, that's the golden meal ticket

networker050184

Aldur wrote: »

Now the JNCIA, that's the golden meal ticket

I guess thats why they are giving them away for free

dynamik

Golden food stamp?

Slowhand

djhss68 wrote: »

CCNA. Do it.

I couldn't help myself: link

seraphus

mikej412 wrote: »

I think the CCNA itself is fine.

It's the **** CCNAs that are less valuable -- along with the clueless HR wonks and managers that hire them and them "blame the CCNA Certification."


Ah -- and the training centers that profit from getting idiots to sign up for overpriced training so that they "can get the money you deserve" are another reason for the "less valuable" perception for the CCNA.
.

Cisco should share in some of that blame as well. They don't enforce the ethical standards they "require" enough, but they sure do benefit from the profits.

The issue, for me, with the CCNA itself is that it isn't "real world" enough. But some degrees aren't either. That shouldn't necessarily stop someone from getting one.

I think, to somewhat piggy back off some of the sentiment in this post, you would be better off getting an "expert" level cert: JNCIE, CCIE, RHCE, etc... in addition to a degree and networking with those who are in a position to help you get the job you want.

TheFORCE

Ah reading this thread was a little depressing for me. I just finished college, i have 2 certs, A+ and DCSE and 8-9 years of experience in the field and about 4 years working for big companies. You mean to tell me that my BS in Computer Science is being tramped by Network+ or CCNA or any other certs? All those years in college for a degree and for what? I go to an interview and i tell them i have a BS in Computer Science and they tell me you dont even have Network+. School is never over i guess.

dynamik

TheFORCE wrote: »

You mean to tell me that my BS in Computer Science is being tramped by Network+ or CCNA or any other certs? All those years in college for a degree and for what? I go to an interview and i tell them i have a BS in Computer Science and they tell me you dont even have Network+.

Not necessarily. Having that degree is a very valuable asset for you. Most job postings I see prefer that candidates have a four-year degree in CSci or a related field. However, just because you have that degree, doesn't mean you can inherently do things like operate Cisco equipment and design networks. Degrees and certs are all just pieces of the puzzle. Get both and you'll trounce other candidates that only have one (assuming you have a personality and other positive things going for you).

TheFORCE wrote: »

School is never over i guess.

The learning indeed never ends. You need to plan on continually learning for the duration of your IT career. You may want to look at something else if that seems like a daunting proposition.

djhss68

Slowhand wrote: »

I couldn't help myself: link

I was waiting for someone to post that!

Forsaken_GA

TheFORCE wrote: »

School is never over i guess.

In the network game, no, it's never over. The day you stop learning is the day you decided you're ok with being obsolete.

Forsaken_GA

seraphus wrote: »

The issue, for me, with the CCNA itself is that it isn't "real world" enough. But some degrees aren't either. That shouldn't necessarily stop someone from getting one.

Honestly, neither is the CCNP. It's a large amount of technical information, and it's a solid foundation, but there's a whole lot of real world stuff that just isn't covered. Monitoring, provisioning, upkeep, post-mortem forensics, proper scaling, migration, etc. These are all aspects of network engineering that no certification exam is going to teach you, and woe to the network engineer who has to learn them the hard way.

Aldur

networker050184 wrote: »

I guess thats why they are giving them away for free

lol, well played

TheFORCE wrote: »

Ah reading this thread was a little depressing for me. I just finished college, i have 2 certs, A+ and DCSE and 8-9 years of experience in the field and about 4 years working for big companies. You mean to tell me that my BS in Computer Science is being tramped by Network+ or CCNA or any other certs? All those years in college for a degree and for what? I go to an interview and i tell them i have a BS in Computer Science and they tell me you dont even have Network+. School is never over i guess.

Don't get too down on your self. A BS in CS is never a bad thing and I wouldn't say that it's getting overshadowed by somebody with a A+ or Net+ cert. I would say that the degree is more valuable to those certs alone. But as Dynamic mentioned it's those who have both a BS degree and certs who tend to get the jobs. Many job postings will require a BS degree plus certain certifications. If you do less then you're really limiting yourself.

And yes, the learning is never over. Granted you maybe able to slow down the speed at which you need to learn things at one point in your career but if you do ever stop learned then you can pretty much consider yourself out of the game in a few years, or less.

Solaris_UNIX

djhss68 wrote: »

CCNA. Do it.

I disagree.

I know so many unemployed CCNA's right now. Just check the alumni forums at the CISCO netacad and you'll see at least a hundred recently minted CCNA's whining and crying about how they can't get a job.

The CCNA isn't a "magic bullet" like it was in the 1990's. Realistically, for most entry level sysadmin / network admin jobs, you're probably not going to be spending all day every day configuring RIP on a T1 line, instead, you need to know how to do things like make e-mail and BIND / DNS (or WINS) work (which aren't covered as part of the CCNA curriculum) and you'll also have to understand some kind of directory authentication service like LDAP or Microsoft Active Directory.

Think about this example: If you work for a company as their main network administrator, and the e-mail stops working, it will be your responsibility to make the broken e-mail work again. That's why they pay you the big bucks, right? Well, what if the reason that the e-mail isn't working has nothing to do with CISCO routers and switches? What if the reason the e-mail isn't working has to do with the fact that the e-mail server has a configuration problem, or maybe the MX record on the DNS server is incorrect, or maybe the e-mail server has a file system corruption issue and you need to run CHKDSK or FSCK. What are you going to do then? CHKDSK and FSCK aren't covered as part of the CCNA curriculum, so I guess at that point you'll get fired and replaced with someone else who has real world experience (as opposed to being merely a "paper CCNA") and the person with real world experience will know how to make the malfunctioning e-mail server actually work.

You think I'm joking, but watch how the CEO of your company reacts when they feel that they're not able to get some important e-mail for some key business deal that they think determines the future success or failure of the company....