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networker050184

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

I disagree.

I know so many unemployed CCNA's right now. Just check the alumni forums at the CISCO netacad and you'll see at least a hundred recently minted CCNA's whining and crying about how they can't get a job.

The CCNA isn't a "magic bullet" like it was in the 1990's. Realistically, for most entry level sysadmin / network admin jobs, you're probably not going to be spending all day every day configuring RIP on a T1 line, instead, you need to know how to do things like make e-mail and BIND / DNS (or WINS) work (which aren't covered as part of the CCNA curriculum) and you'll also have to understand some kind of directory authentication service like LDAP or Microsoft Active Directory.

Think about this example: If you work for a company as their main network administrator, and the e-mail stops working, it will be your responsibility to make the broken e-mail work again. That's why they pay you the big bucks, right? Well, what if the reason that the e-mail isn't working has nothing to do with CISCO routers and switches? What if the reason the e-mail isn't working has to do with the fact that the e-mail server has a configuration problem, or maybe the MX record on the DNS server is incorrect, or maybe the e-mail server has a file system corruption issue and you need to run CHKDSK or FSCK. What are you going to do then? CHKDSK and FSCK aren't covered as part of the CCNA curriculum, so I guess at that point you'll get fired and replaced with someone else who has real world experience (as opposed to being merely a "paper CCNA") and the person with real world experience will know how to make the malfunctioning e-mail server actually work.

You think I'm joking, but watch how the CEO of your company reacts when they feel that they're not able to get some important e-mail for some key business deal that they think determines the future success or failure of the company....

I don't think anyone was suggesting to get the CCNA (or any other cert) and ONLY learn what is covered on that certification.

dynamik

I agree that the CCNA isn't a magic bullet, but I don't see how not getting one is going to make you stand out (at least in a positive manner ) amongst other CCNAs vying for the same position. It seems like it's become more of a base requirement than a career changer. That seems to make it all the more important to acquire...

msteinhilber

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

The CCNA isn't a "magic bullet" like it was in the 1990's.

No certification is a magic bullet. They all work in conjunction with your work experience, schooling, and your soft skills. I would venture to guess many of the newly minted CCNA's that you see whining and crying on the alumni forums are of the variety that bought into "I can take some classes, get a cert, and get a job instantly" types.

Solaris_UNIX

networker050184 wrote: »

I don't think anyone was suggesting to get the CCNA (or any other cert) and ONLY learn what is covered on that certification.

You're right, no one was suggesting to ONLY learn the CCNA curriculum. But the problem is that tens of thousands of people who are new to the IT field still believe in the "CCNA magic bullet" theory that just passing that exam guarantees them a winning lottery ticket to unlimited high paying IT jobs. This belief in the magic bullet / winning lottery ticket is one of the reasons why the CCNA field is currently so over saturated. I estimate there's at least 30 to 45 qualified CCNA's in the world for each actual CCNA entry level networking job available (have fun competing with them for a rapidly shrinking slice of the pie), but that's just my estimate, don't give any real credence to it if you don't want to.

Turn back the clock to 1998 when there was a massive shortage of TCP/IP networking professionals and yes, a CCNA with no experience and no non-CISCO skills would get a high paying job just because they happened to have a CCNA. This was a unique situation that happened because corporations couldn't find people fast enough to fill all of the available positions. This unique, idiosyncratic situation doesn't exist anymore. Those positions were all filled within the last decade, and they're actually firing people now and downsizing instead of hiring, and if they are hiring in this time of down-sizing and cutting-costs, it's much cheaper for them to ship someone over from India to do the job on a work VISA than it is for them to hire a native U.S. citizen (they get extra leverage over non-US citizen employees because the corporation can terminate them and their work VISA any time they feel like it). Don't believe me? One of the network admins at the ISP I work at is a Russian citizen and the other is an Indian. They pay those guys probably $15,000 to $20,000 less than what they would have to pay a U.S. citizen to do the same work.

Nowadays, times have changed. If all you know is RIP and OSPF and EIGRP and HDLC and PPP and Frame Relay etc. you would think that you could get a job as a WAN technician for an ISP, telco or Fortune 500, right? WRONG!!!! All the people I know who work on WANs are CCNP's not CCNA's. No telco in their right mind is going to let a CCNA with no real world experience screw up a busy WAN connection and accidentally kick 1,000 or more customers offline with one incorrectly typed in command.

As a community, we need to all broadcast the same message to people new to the IT field:

No! having just a CCNA and no non-CISCO skills does not guarantee you a high paying IT job!

If we all keep repeating that truthful message in unison, then young people going after the CCNA won't feel so let down when they spend a year or more of their life studying for this exam and then find out that the piece of paper they earned isn't the cash cow that they hoped it would be.

If you want to do networking because it's what you really like to do (i.e. you would do it for free even on a volunteer basis, as I sometimes do) because you just really like doing it, then fine. But I'm getting sick of people who come in to the field just for the money and then make a big stink when they find out that the money for a CCNA cert isn't what they thought it would be.

The best way is to just be honest and tell the truth- if all you care about is money, the fastest way to get there is probably with some serious Microsoft certs and not with a CCNA, IMO. I still see dozens if not hundreds of job openings every few months for people who know how to do things like Microsoft Exchange, Sharepoint, and Active Directory (none of which are CISCO related, of course), CCNA is sometimes thrown in there too, but is as an optional thing, not a requirement, as you'll spend most of your day doing Exchange, Sharepoint, and Active Directory related things and not CISCO related things.

Solaris_UNIX

I thought I should also add that CISCO is indirectly contributing to the problem in some ways (i.e. making the over-saturation of CCNA's even worse than it already is). CISCO advertises and shows pictures of purported "CCNA's" living the "CCNA rock star lifestyle" wearing designer clothes and configuring entire rooms full of Catalyst 6500 core layer switches and 7600 series routers on their pricey laptops in the pictures on the covers of their CCNA text books when we all know that entry level CCNA's are not usually given sole control over a room full of Catalyst 6500's, 7600 routers and other similar upscale networking gear that's handling mission-critical traffic for a Fortune 500 company. It's no wonder that lots of people in non-IT jobs see this marketing and think to themselves "ooooh, I gotta get me one of those CCNA certs so I can be rolling in cash just like the guys in those CISCO adverts."

Think about it seriously for a moment. CISCO is a hardware vendor. That's how they make money- i.e. by selling hardware: routers, switches, firewalls, etc to businesses.

If CISCO can create a factory that churns out hundreds of thousands of CCNA's every year and thus, through supply and demand economics, drives down the worth of the CCNA / CCENT to where a CCNA only gets paid maybe $12 an hour (with no health insurance) without compromising the quality of the ICND1 and ICND2 exams (i.e. the CCNA exam is just as difficult as it always was, maybe even much more difficult than it was in the past, but having the cert only be worth $12 an hour because there's so many, many unemployed CCNA's available in the job market for every entry level CISCO job), then that gives CISCO an even bigger advantage than they already have compared to other competitors.

When the CISCO sales and marketing droids go in to sell a bunch of networking equipment to a Fortune 500 company, they can then make the sales pitch like this: "Look, we know that Juniper stuff or Force 10 or whatever might be less expensive than our equipment- but look at the total cost of ownership- you only have to pay a CCNA $16 an hour to admin your network because there's so many desperate unemployed CCNA's out there and they'll gladly take any job you throw at them, a Juniper guy would cost maybe $32 an hour, IF you can find one, and that's a big IF as there's not a lot of Juniper guys out there and all the ones that are out there already have jobs. So, that's twice the T.C.O. in terms of human resources for using our competitor, Juniper's products!"

It's simple economics people. Having a large, unlimited supply of CCNA's in the job market means lower total cost of ownership to the corporate executives in suits who are writing the checks out to CISCO for the expensive networking gear. Lower CCNA salaries = lower TCO for CISCO gear = more CISCO routers sold = more profits for CISCO and it's shareholders. And many of the CCIE's I know actually work in some capacity for CISCO itself, so having the CCIE as an uber-elite, highly paid certification is great too because CISCO can use the prestige of the CCIE cert to sell consulting services from CISCO employed CCIE's to their customers. If too many people start earning CCIE's they can always crank up the difficulty level a few more notches to keep the supply low and the prestige of the certification high.

So, when you're studying for the CCNA, think about whether you're doing it because you really love doing it (i.e. you would even do it for free on occasion just for the fun of it) or whether you're just doing it for the money, because the money might not be what you think it is.

Daniel333

Easy answer!

Start with your Microsoft Certified Architect, snag that in AD and Exchange.
then go ahead and get
PMP
CCIE: Routing and Switching
CCIE: Voice
and CCDE

While you earn that get your doctorate and you'll be doing fine in no time!

dynamik

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

No! having just a CCNA and no non-CISCO skills does not guarantee you a high paying IT job!

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

So, when you're studying for the CCNA, think about whether you're doing it because you really love doing it (i.e. you would even do it for free on occasion just for the fun of it) or whether you're just doing it for the money, because the money might not be what you think it is.

You should hang around the forums a bit more before dedicating so much time to argumentative posts. These are the exact messages that have been conveyed here for years

Edit: And Daniel always has an easy solution for everything

WilliamK99

Daniel333 wrote: »

Easy answer!

Start with your Microsoft Certified Architect, snag that in AD and Exchange.
then go ahead and get
PMP
CCIE: Routing and Switching
CCIE: Voice
and CCDE

While you earn that get your doctorate and you'll be doing fine in no time!

You might want to get A+ as well, that might come in handy....

DerekAustin26

So how do you tell the difference between a "**** CCNA" and a "Good CCNA" ?
A CCNA is a CCNA. What do you mean?

WilliamK99

DerekAustin26 wrote: »

So how do you tell the difference between a "**** CCNA" and a "Good CCNA" ?
A CCNA is a CCNA. What do you mean?

1 is earned by studying and actually learning the material, (Good CCNA), the other is earned by those who memorize test questions and really have no clue what they are doing once they actually get employed because they do not understand the material.

Life is not a certification test, you either know it or you don't and those that don't get found out real quick. There are no Brain **** in real life....

dynamik

WilliamK99 wrote: »

1 is earned by studying and actually learning the material, (Good CCNA), the other is earned by those who memorize test questions and really have no clue what they are doing once they actually get employed because they do not understand the material.

Life is not a certification test, you either know it or you don't and those that don't get found out real quick. There are no Brain **** in real life....

Exactly. If you set one of each down in front of actual gear and ask them to perform CCNA-level tasks and explain why they did what they did, only one is going to be able to do that. Who would you hire?

WilliamK99 wrote: »

There are no Brain **** in real life....

TBH, I wouldn't mind if there was one for women...

networker050184

I agree with you on most points Solaris UNIX. I actually posted pretty much the same thing (MUCH fewer words though ) on the first page of this thread.

Where we do differ in opinion is that I think you are grossly over exaggerating the state of the networking industry. I have not seen any indication that networking jobs are being down sized as you say. If anything I see most networks growing requiring more people.

drainey

I think it really comes down to understanding job roles and related certs. A CCNA is a starting point for networking certs. MCTIP:EST or MCDST are a starting point for desktop support. MCP/MCTS and A+/NET+ are the starting point for helpdesk. None of these alone are going to get you a high paying IT job. You need to get a start in an entry level position and then use the experience gained along with the cert to move into a higher level and better paying job. Of course upgrading your certs as you go such as CCNA to CCNP, MCP/MCTS or MCDST/MCITP:EST to MCSA/MCITP:SA to MCSE/MCITP:EA. The A+/NET+ are just plain good starting points for any career, but adding the SEC+ would be a good idea as you strive to move up.

Solaris_UNIX

networker050184 wrote: »

I agree with you on most points Solaris UNIX. I actually posted pretty much the same thing (MUCH fewer words though ) on the first page of this thread.

Where we do differ in opinion is that I think you are grossly over exaggerating the state of the networking industry. I have not seen any indication that networking jobs are being down sized as you say. If anything I see most networks growing requiring more people.

Well, maybe it's different in South Carolina than it is in downtown Los Angeles right now.

I've been monitoring job openings for many months now and I have yet to see one that just wants a "CCNA" and nothing else, all the job openings I've seen require serious work done in things that are way outside the core CCNA curriculum (i.e. heavy duty VOIP infrastructure deployment, CISCO MARS configuration, BGP routing, MPLS, Microsoft Exchange / Active Directory configuration, UNIX system administration, Oracle databases, etc.) and I know lots of unemployed CCNA's with no experience that can't find jobs (I told them to learn something else on the side like Linux system administration or Microsoft Active Directory while they were prepping for their CCNA's, but no they wouldn't listen).

I was actually thinking of leaving moving to Georgia or Mississippi because it seemed like there were a lot more networking job openings and Unix system administration job openings in the deep south then there were over here.

There's actually a lot of Indian network techs working in down town Los Angeles, who, to their immense credit, are VERY uber-skilled at all things CISCO (i.e. they are really darn good CCNP's and definitely not "paper CCNA's"). If there are 800 million more like that where they came from in India that are just as skilled at CISCO stuff, and they decide to come over to downtown LA, then we're going to have a really hard time finding jobs. There was also a big flood of CISCO certified people from South American countries that moved in as well as the Russians and the Korean guys who were really uber-talented also. I guess if you're outside the US and/or Europe and you're CISCO certified and looking for a job, downtown LA must be the first place you go to get one (after you get your IT work visa, of course).

It definitely gives me an apocalyptic view of the networking job market

dynamik

Don't forget about the current economic climate either; I don't think it's just CCNAs that are having a difficult time. It can be easy to lose sight of the bigger picture when you're engrossed in a specific field/specialization.

networker050184

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

Well, maybe it's different in South Carolina than it is in downtown Los Angeles right now.

I've been monitoring job openings for many months now and I have yet to see one that just wants a "CCNA" and nothing else, all the job openings I've seen require serious work done in things that are way outside the core CCNA curriculum (i.e. heavy duty VOIP infrastructure deployment, CISCO MARS configuration, BGP routing, MPLS, Microsoft Exchange / Active Directory configuration, UNIX system administration, Oracle databases, etc.) and I know lots of unemployed CCNA's with no experience that can't find jobs (I told them to learn something else on the side like Linux system administration or Microsoft Active Directory while they were prepping for their CCNA's, but no they wouldn't listen).

I was actually thinking of leaving moving to Georgia or Mississippi because it seemed like there were a lot more networking job openings and Unix system administration job openings in the deep south then there were over here.

There's actually a lot of Indian network techs working in down town Los Angeles, who, to their immense credit, are VERY uber-skilled at all things CISCO (i.e. they are really darn good CCNP's and definitely not "paper CCNA's"). If there are 800 million more like that where they came from in India that are just as skilled at CISCO stuff, and they decide to come over to downtown LA, then we're going to have a really hard time finding jobs. There was also a big flood of CISCO certified people from South American countries that moved in as well as the Russians and the Korean guys who were really uber-talented also. I guess if you're outside the US and/or Europe and you're CISCO certified and looking for a job, downtown LA must be the first place you go to get one (after you get your IT work visa, of course).

It definitely gives me an apocalyptic view of the networking job market

I think what you are seeing is just the work of a bad economy right now. Nothing directly pointed at the networking industry in particular. I actually think its one of the safer IT markets to be in. The use of networks is growing by the day. More and more services are being pushed on line which just means more and larger networks are needed all the time. This is impossible without more networking professionals.

My $.02 anyway.

mikej412

Solaris_UNIX wrote: »

CISCO advertises and shows pictures of purported "CCNA's" living the "CCNA rock star lifestyle" wearing designer clothes and configuring entire rooms full of Catalyst 6500 core layer switches and 7600 series routers on their pricey laptops in the pictures on the covers of their CCNA text books

Um -- corporate laptop. And someone has to rack 'n stack those bad boys.

Our minimum for those "glamorous rack 'n stack/cable monkey positions" is an A+, Network+, MCP, or the recently added CCENT. We will also consider CCNAs & MCSAs -- but sometimes hit a snag when they expect more money than the experienced guys/gals already doing the job

People dumb enough to fall for those "champagne wishes and caviar dreams" on a book cover probably don't have much of a chance of making it in this industry anyways. Same for the people who fall for the "earn the money you deserve" training pitches and the fake testimonials from the **** peddlers. And those people don't want to hear the truth.

brad-

WilliamK99 wrote: »

There are no Brain **** in real life....

Google.

human151

I'm Proud to have earned my CCNA. That said, We must realize its not the CCNA Cert that should mean anything. Its the knowledge that goes into getting the cert that means something. I studied, did hands on with my Uber lab, then studied some more and gained the skills that allowed me to pass the test.

Any good interviewer will weed out the paper certs from real CCNAs. I've been on a few interviews that were very tough. I really dont see how any Brain **** idiots could get through those.

IMO, The certifications offer and clear and concise learning path, a road map of what to learn. once you follow the map, learn the material, you pass a test, you earned your cert.

Once you get your CCNA it does not magically give you the powers to manages a complicated network, you also need experience. Would you agree? So saying a guy who decides to get his CCNA and studies and passes it but is still a bit green on the job is a paper CCNA, is kind of missing the point of a CCNA cert. Its meant to be a starting point. Its not as if you should expect the new CCNA to set up a Psuedo Wire or BGP or even set up the TACACS server.

It kind annoys me when I hear people trashing certs, saying their worthless etc... Its not the the certs who are worthless, its the morons who want to take shortcuts and ****.

Xenz

I don't think it's just the certifications that frustrate people or give them some sort of dream where you'll get X and Y once you obtain them. Here is something that bugs me somewhat. I really worked hard with my Cisco courses. I passed up my class and even the instructor fairly quick. It got to the point where he asked me to help supervise labs, and I even corrected him during reviews we did on tests.

I watched a good portion of my Cisco class fall to attrition, I watched a good portion struggle with subnetting up through Cisco 3 (I didn't take Cisco 4). I know that a good portion of students in my class will be passing because no matter what, the college had a goal of passing students unless they literally did nothing the whole semester. I know this because I tested this theory, literally blowing off my Security+ course and Linux+ course at midterms. I took the midterm and did no other work. At the end of the Security+ course I ended up with an A @ 48% (excellent grades) of the work completed. In my Linux+ course, with the one instructor that was a little more harsh, and I ended up with a D @ 55% (excellent grades) of the work completed and credits. I have a hard time believing my college is the only one that does this.

I suppose it's on me for not going to a real college and getting a real degree, but this is a good number of students hitting the job market with the same degree. My only advantage is having the certifications over them. I am honestly wondering whether I can get any sort of advantage taking a couple programming courses and seeing if my gen ed courses will apply to a second A.A.S in Programming. I have an okay base to work from such as a basic understanding of Linux, able to read some code, able to work with customers, etc. I heard of a guy here getting an A+ focused job I applied for at a local university. He had a Bachelors in Comp Sci and got the job over someone like me making 12/hr.

If I had a chance to revamp the CCNA I would do the following:
- ICND 1 now contains a good portion of STP configuration and understanding
- ICND 2 is a two part test with the written including basic switching concepts of the BCMSN (overlaps to ease you into furthering your certifications).
- ICND 2 requires you to sit a 1 hour lab that the test center will setup independent of the written test for ICND 2. This lab is focused on troubleshooting covering all topics of ICND 1/2 including some optional engineering topics (changing port priorities/setting up PVSTP+ so no links are wasted, configuring redundancy via LACP/PAgP)

This would make the CCNA a little more valuable if you ask me. For one, it contains some CCNP topics and the lab part will make sure you just didn't memorize commands. Brain **** would be thwarted because live equipment makes it nearly impossible to prepare for what is coming.

A+ should be a good starting point for everyone, but I think that Network+ should be slightly more difficult. Make it so the CompTIA certs branch off one another and build in difficulty to make them more valuable. The only tests I feel that makes leaps in difficulty are the Cisco exams. CCNA --> CCNP is a major slap in the face. I'm sure CCNP --> CCIE is the same exact way. Microsoft I am unsure of. I have met some really A+ level MCSA/MCSE people. I'm sure they were the brain dumpers, but there is a chance they just memorized content like I think you could do with the CCNA.

Just my 2 cents, I think it's a combination of both college and these certification claims that bother some people. I have no problems working from the absolute bottom, and likely enjoying every moment of it quite honestly, but it's really hard to get into IT when your certifications and degree have little unique value to them.

human151

---Another issue I have with some of these certs is that I don't really see how they prepare you for anything. Most of Cisco 1 and 2 were recaps of Network+. I think the only real hard part of ICND 1 was learning RIP and theory of distance vector routing protocols. This could easily be included in the Network+ I believe. ----


I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. Very little of the Cisco Cert paths was a recap of the Network +. The Network + barely scrathed the surface of any subject, much less TCP/IP and RIP 1 or 2. Also, network + had very little Subnetting.

Xenz

I never meant Network+ and ICND1 were the same, I meant that they covered a good portion of each other especially in the NetAcademy portions such as the Discovery Modules.

There is much less subnetting in Network+, but you still had to have a decent grasp on it. You could possibly get by the ICND1 with the same set of Network+ subnetting. The Discovery modules in the NetAcad talked a lot about the same things in Network+ such as:

Cabling/Connectors
Wireless standards
Subnetting
Network devices
Ports and their uses (identifying common ports)
The OSI model
Quite a few others...

I think the major difference between these tests is that ICND1 is Cisco based configuration while the Network+ focuses on Linux/Windows configuration. A good bit of the Network+ overlaps at least with the Net Academy curriculum. Even things like Redundancy/Fault Tolerance and troubleshooting commands are taught in the ICND1 courses.

All of these are based off the old objectives, just for reference, but I would say a good 30-50% of the Network+ test overlaps with ICND1. I can't really be objective about it, because to me the Network+ wasn't difficult for me having taken ICND1 and having a good bit of experience with networking in Windows/Linux.

I am not saying that the tests are one in the same, both have their own points, but I will say that a good portion is overlapped. Both are meant to be entry level tests and I think they do a good job. I just think that CompTIA could get a little more into their tests for example, using A+ as a jump off point, allowing everything to branch off it . That way in the tests they can focus on their domain a bit more rather than trying to force some of the A+ stuff on you. A good example being put the network media/connections portion on the A+, add in some more advanced topics for the Network+ such as VPN's.

*note* removed that quote from Human151 in my original post. I think that they do prepare you for entry-level jobs, I think they could do this better as mentioned above. It was early, MY BAD!

bertieb

DerekAustin26 wrote: »

So how do you tell the difference between a "**** CCNA" and a "Good CCNA" ?

In about thirty seconds on a telephone interview......

curtisdaley

It annoys me when people in general think a degree gives you instantly a great job, it is a merit of proven academic skills not vocational, ie work place skills, thats what the CCNA and JNCIA gives you, thoose two qualifications give you the skills you need, to be able to do your job in the work place, like setup routers and switches, troubleshoot them and so on. The stuff covered in N+ you'll likely study in your network degree, as its to do with topologies, technologies, standards and so on, am i right people? N+ gives you the thereotical knowledge needed to complete your practical knowledge! Having an A+ and N+ probably would give you a reasonable job! Out of the friends i have who have degrees, the ones with Web Design ones get jobs pretty easy and so do the programming ones to a certain extent but their being asked to have Sun Microsystems Java Engineer certs and so on, the networking ones are having a very difficult one, if they don't have their ccna, mcsa, they won't get employed thats what their finding! All i know is hopefully i'll have my CCNA in Security, MCSA, A+ and several others when i finish my BSc in Computer Science (Computer Networks) in 2012/2013! The more qualification you have the better, the jobs i see other here in england are like

MCSA, A+, CCNA, Degree in Electronics or Computers, 2 - 5 years experience and so on!

Xenz

CCNA is barely going to qualify you for anything. I have the cert and I sure as hell wouldn't trust anyone like me on a real production network without some decent supervision/mentoring.

The degree I'm getting I view as a starting point. It seems that way nowadays, and I don't really know whether it's going to count for work experience like some say. I actually inquired recently about applying my credits towards a second degree. I was under the impression I could get another Associates of Applied Science, but apparently if I take enough credit hours I can get a Bachelors of Applied Science.

I view the entry level certs (A+/Net+/CCNA/MCP) as all Associate Degree level equivalencies. A Bachelors seems to be the average degree everyone wants. I may have that chance assuming I take the courses needed for the programmer/analyst track at my college.

The only certifications I am pursuing that I feel go beyond an elementary education are the MCSA/CCNP etc.. Like I outlined in my other posts, my college makes you take the CompTIA, CCNA, MCP courses. This would mean that you should be able to pass these tests to prove your knowledge.

DerekAustin26

I believe CCNA gives you an edge over all the other "Basic Certs" but I actually worked in the NOC (just got laid off last month) for 8 months.. If i got the Cert I'd feel confident about it, however if I hadn't worked in the NOC i'd completely agree with you. CCNA with "real world" experience is where I think the CCNA gains its maximum value and definitely sets itself apart from all the other "entry level certs"

Xenz

DerekAustin26 wrote: »

I believe CCNA gives you an edge over all the other "Basic Certs" but I actually worked in the NOC (just got laid off last month) for 8 months.. If i got the Cert I'd feel confident about it, however if I hadn't worked in the NOC i'd completely agree with you. CCNA with "real world" experience is where I think the CCNA gains its maximum value and definitely sets itself apart from all the other "entry level certs"

Sorry to hear

Experience trumps all period. I'm in the position where the area is big in manufacturing/factory work. The only big IT employer we have in the area is Crowe Chizek. I don't think Comcast has anything around here outside of the cable techs. When jobs do appear they are higher than entry level and so I don't qualify well for them. I mentioned the one entry level job here that was given to a guy with a Bachelors in Computer Science.

I'm very eager to move 2 hours in any direction to find a slightly larger market. Like I said, I'm more interested in starting at the bottom and working up. If I could find an associate level job in a NOC I would probably try to sell my soul for it.

There are a few certs that may be valued slightly more than another, but for the most part you can group CCNA/CompTIA/MCP into the entry level. CCNA is so common I wouldn't plan on it getting any attention outside of a comparison between applicants.

human151

Xenz wrote: »

Sorry to hear

Experience trumps all period. I'm in the position where the area is big in manufacturing/factory work. The only big IT employer we have in the area is Crowe Chizek. I don't think Comcast has anything around here outside of the cable techs. When jobs do appear they are higher than entry level and so I don't qualify well for them. I mentioned the one entry level job here that was given to a guy with a Bachelors in Computer Science.

I'm very eager to move 2 hours in any direction to find a slightly larger market. Like I said, I'm more interested in starting at the bottom and working up. If I could find an associate level job in a NOC I would probably try to sell my soul for it.

There are a few certs that may be valued slightly more than another, but for the most part you can group CCNA/CompTIA/MCP into the entry level. CCNA is so common I wouldn't plan on it getting any attention outside of a comparison between applicants.

Comptia certs and cisco certs cannot be lumped into the same category.

No one I know puts any value in A+ or Network+, however the CCNA as well as other CISCO certs is valued. My employer would take a CCNA over a Comptia certified person hands down.

Any cert will not magically get you the job alone. a cert teaches a person the basic knowledge you need to know in order to do the work. A person still needs hands on experience with the equipment, which is why after a person obtaining thier CCNA with no a little work experience is not going to become a Network Engineer overnight.

You've got to pay your dues...

After obtaing my CCNA I was give full privilages to our network, which no tech has without a CCNA. Now I get to configure stuff, yay!!

I understand your fustration and I share it. Its really tough to break into the business. You might consider moving if there is nothing available in your area.

DerekAustin26

I agree.. When I was in the NOC, our Supervisor strongly encouraged us to get our CCNA's

Xenz

Maybe the area here is different, but I don't think many people pay attention to the CCNA here.

CompTIA certs are sort of weird. Network+ was pretty easy to pass and I did it to save on tuition. $225 (I think) to pass the test vs a couple hundred on tuition + books is why I took it. CompTIA A+ is useful if you ask me.

I plan to move, but finishing up college first before I do unless I can find a really solid job that I can live off of. Hell, if I could find a job that has a late enough start time I'd take the South Shore and commute to Chicago ($11 one way 2 hour train ride) to get the experience. 9 a.m - 5 p.m would fit possibly. Being on-call would be kind of impossible! Also depends where at in Chicago and how much it costs to train hop.

At the moment I was planning on graduating in December, but I noticed I can take 10 more classes and get a second degree so I'm going to do that. This puts me in a good position to transfer to a 4 year here in Indiana or maybe Illinois (if credits transfer) and get Bachelors fairly easy/cheap. I had a choice of Java or Visual Basic for this semester so I chose Java thinking it would be more in demand and more useful for my career. I found out the books are 8 years old. Maybe I should have taken VB after all . I should be done by next July with an A.A.S in Networking and Programming.