How to get a NOC position?

I have always had a desire to get into networking, but I haven't been able to get a job in this field yet. I've been a helpdesk rep for about a year now troubleshooting proprietary software, and would like to get out! My company does have a NOC department, but the manager is the biggest jerk that I've ever seen, so that isn't an option for me. I guess I could study for my CCNA. What else should I do?

Education:

AAS in Network Technology
AAS in Cisco Systems
A+, Network+, MCSA

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4XJunkie

Yep

It seems once that step has progressed from Help Desk -> _______ , you are on your way as long as you keep your nose clean and work hard.

I'm still working on that step

Big Jizay

I have some potentially good news. The word in the NOC department is that a guy is probably going to quit in that department very soon and if that were to happen, that the manager is going to bring me to the NOC! I'm hoping for the best. That would be sweet to get into networking, and to get out of helpdesk. The IT industry reminds me of how gangs work. To get into a gang, you have to be jumped in first. Same with IT, to really get into the IT industry, you have to work helpdesk first. Getting jumped and working helpdesk are equally painful

Bl8ckr0uter

Big Jizay wrote: »

I have some potentially good news. The word in the NOC department is that a guy is probably going to quit in that department very soon and if that were to happen, that the manager is going to bring me to the NOC! I'm hoping for the best. That would be sweet to get into networking, and to get out of helpdesk. The IT industry reminds me of how gangs work. To get into a gang, you have to be jumped in first. Same with IT, to really get into the IT industry, you have to work helpdesk first. Getting jumped and working helpdesk are equally painful .

Good luck. I hope you get it.

Paul Boz

Be prepared for long hours and giving up a lot of holidays. I worked in a NOC for three years and the shifts got to me in the end. Nothing like having to work 4 12's over night then six weeks later be doing five 10's during the day. Also, when you're new you have zero tenure and usually will have to work most holidays because the more senior noc techs will be getting them off. My experiences may be skewed by the fact that I had a COMPLETELY INEPT supervisor so your mileage may vary.

NOC centers are a great place to learn a lot but a hell of a bad place to spend your career. At least in my opinion from being there.

OH YEAH. Make sure you're hourly. You're going to get raped if they put you on salary. I used to clear as much OT as my normal check because of the forced OT.

Big Jizay

Paul Boz wrote: »

Be prepared for long hours and giving up a lot of holidays. I worked in a NOC for three years and the shifts got to me in the end. Nothing like having to work 4 12's over night then six weeks later be doing five 10's during the day. Also, when you're new you have zero tenure and usually will have to work most holidays because the more senior noc techs will be getting them off. My experiences may be skewed by the fact that I had a COMPLETELY INEPT supervisor so your mileage may vary.

NOC centers are a great place to learn a lot but a hell of a bad place to spend your career. At least in my opinion from being there.

OH YEAH. Make sure you're hourly. You're going to get raped if they put you on salary. I used to clear as much OT as my normal check because of the forced OT.

At my job, in the NOC and helpdesk, we get paid double time for holidays. Most people want to actually work holidays to get that double time, so the people with seniority usually work the holidays. That great for me. I love having holidays off, and I would get paid a regular days pay for it too. Fortunately, the NOC does get paid hourly, so if I work overtime, at least I'll get paid for it.

I agree also that the NOC is not the kind of job you want to make a career out of. IMO, it's a job that you're supposed to have for only a few years tops. I just want to get a year or two experience and move on to the next job. Since you worked in a NOC for three years, do you have any advice on what I should be learning to be a great NOC tech?

Kaminsky

4XJunkie wrote: »

...
If you turn down opportunities, jobs, etc because you don't like someone, they are mean, they don't like you, etc... then I am afraid your career will remain stagnant. You need to realize that the world doesn't hand anyone anything. If you want it, you take it. You improve yourself.

Personal anecdote here. I had a manager who did not like me, period. So he tried to get me to quit. He assigned me more work than everyone else, had me go do things near impossible above my capabilities. But instead of whining about how he doesn't like me and is not fair, all it did was beef up my resume. And I found a new job, making more than him. And honestly, I need to thank him for providing me the opportunity to extend my skill set beyond that position.

TLDR version? Of course apply for one of those jobs. Don't be intimidated by someone, and don't risk your career advancement because someone "is a jerk".

You should learn from this guy...
I had a boss that tried everything to get rid of me after their company took over mine and slaughtered my it department. Made me sit at a desk outside with the secretaries for 3 months doing nothing and not allowed to do any support or give any advice to the young new it guys he put in my place at my desk even though I was the server manager and pc manager for that 500 user site at the time.... I had our first 2 month old baby at the time... I wasnt going anywhere.. chr.st the web is boring!....

Eventually they had to give me something due to the embarrassment so they had me driving all over a 70 mile square county every day just filling in for whatever.... once caught him majorly slagging me off to others when he had his back to me and all others were pointing over his shoulder whilst he did it....

With all that travel, I was bringing in more than twice what he was. Dumba$$ thought I was ignorant everytime I smiled when he sent me on a 200 mile round trip each day... What a muppet!

Eventually the fraggle wannabe realised I was actually laughing at him all this time and when some of his golden boys left due to the fact they couldn't handle the upscale and not to mention the complete mess they had made of things, I was the last possible candidate for the role of Novell / MS server manager for a 8,500 user site. Once back in actions, took me about 2 months to clean up their mess and get things in order and turn 850+ calls a weeks into 60 calls a week... Not that I gloated much!

Paul Boz

Big Jizay wrote: »

do you have any advice on what I should be learning to be a great NOC tech?

1. Make sure you fully understand the network that you are monitoring. Understand traffic patterns, understand the alerts you should see regularly, and make sure you stay aware of the network at all times.

2. Attempt to innovate when possible. I started in the NOC when I was 20 years old and I primarily worked with guys twice my age. Maybe it was my age, maybe it was my newbiness, but I had zero problems trying to make things more efficient. I implemented several policies and procedures that are still in place at that organization right now. My goal was to make the network and monitoring more efficient, not to protect my job through redundancy.

3. Do not flake on your shifts. It is damn near impossible to get someone to fill in a NOC shift on short notice. When I worked in the NOC I would rather go to work and barf in trash cans if I was sick than ho my co workers out.

4. Work over night if you can. There is minimal supervision by management and the network is usually slower. This affords plenty of study time. I earned my CCNA and did 2/3 of the CCNP tests (composite exam being one of them) working over night.

5. Try your best to fit into the culture that is already present. NOC personnel have to get along because coverage is usually light and if you have drama with others you may as well quit. That is one of the reasons I was pushed out of my last job.

murdatapes

Paul Boz wrote: »

4. Work over night if you can. There is minimal supervision by management and the network is usually slower. This affords plenty of study time. I earned my CCNA and did 2/3 of the CCNP tests (composite exam being one of them) working over night.

Yeah go to nights if available. But use your time wisely. I work nights in the NOC and wish I had used my time wiser over these past 5 years with learning new skills while studying for the certs. I picked it back up just recently. Like Paul B said, supervision is low or better yet, like my job, there is no management over night, just a lead. My schedule is 8pm-8am, but over 50% of the time, there is like maybe a 5-8hour down time. Use that time.

Kaminsky

In answer as to how to get a NOC position, I would propose getting as much exposure to HP OpenView and it's equivelents as possible with the ability to do this and that with it on your resume AND the very, very minimum of a CCNA... For a Network Operations Centre, forget about MCSE, there are plenty of low paid PC/Server plebs (read my post above before you dis me on that comment) that can deal with any issues of that nature already in post and not going anywhere fast. Also BMS network alarm systems and it's relevent equivelent exposure will go tremendously well in your favour.

With lots of network monitoring experience and a minimum of a CCNA, you'll get a noc job over other applicants. No worries! They don't want bill gates... they want someone who knows how to use the tools they are using to run their NOC.

As another poster commented, NOC is a stepping stone into high end networking so don't stay there any longer than 3 years absolute max. After that, you will be looked down on for staying too long and not being worthy of a more advanced role. It's like the helpdesk in it's mundaneness and joking at the user's expense .... but for networking. Stay in the company but use those vital "friendly" contacts you have made and move higher up in the particular networking field you enjoy.

From noc you can go to implementation where you build router/switch/server/firewall configs for different new project equipment implementations. Amazing knowledge gain and you get to touch the equipment and build them up as you want them before you send them out to be installed elsewhere in the relevent data centre or client site.... OR you can go on to OPS for routing/vlan switching, security, voip, isp, etc. These are the core teams in the large IT companies but you are on the "Productivity clock" here so if you cannot regularly meet the "calls fixed per shift" arbitrary minimum requirement set by the admin manager, you'll be out on your ear and be one of those telling stories of how you used to work for <insert big company name here> but you didnt like it because of <insert pathetic reason why you couldn't cut it here>. In OPs, you rarely get to even see the devices you are in sole responsibility for. Big deal... not really if you think about it. A box is a box whether it is right in front of you or thousands of miles away. Console access is console acccess.... Look up space networking (as in shuttle) to see how funky this can get... woah!

The actual putting in and patching of the kit is done by low paid and usually elderly engineers who do exactly what they are told and patch exactly what they are told to patch whether obviously wrong or not. They are working a pension usually .... One of the most trustworthy (I didn't say knowledgable) engineers we have is 66 and now on a yearly contract. Remotely specify to him what to do something and he will do EXACTLY that something. As a remote techie... what more can you want short of the kit being in the next room wher eyou can just go do what you want

Big Jizay

Paul Boz wrote: »

4. Work over night if you can. There is minimal supervision by management and the network is usually slower. This affords plenty of study time. I earned my CCNA and did 2/3 of the CCNP tests (composite exam being one of them) working over night.

It's funny that you say that. The guy's position that I would be taking is a guy that works at night. I worked 3 months at night in the helpdesk, when helpdesk was 24/7, and the NOC wasn't. The helpdesk night crew had to do a few NOC duties as well as helpdesk duties, as the NOC didn't work nights at the time. So I wouldn't be going into the NOC completely blind. I know how to do some of the things that they do. I would definitely use that time to study for my CCNA. That would be sweet!

Paul Boz

Ask the guy that would be promoting you what management software they use. As another poster mentioned, learning HP Openview will take you places if you want to get into the NOC realm. I learned it, loved it, and got the job.

Big Jizay

Paul Boz wrote: »

Ask the guy that would be promoting you what management software they use. As another poster mentioned, learning HP Openview will take you places if you want to get into the NOC realm. I learned it, loved it, and got the job.

Ok, I'll ask him and see what he says. HP Openview sounds pretty important. I'll Google it right now also to see what this software is all about. Thanks Paul

Paul Boz

Big Jizay wrote: »

Ok, I'll ask him and see what he says. HP Openview sounds pretty important. I'll Google it right now also to see what this software is all about. Thanks Paul

Openview is a ISP or large scale corporate network grade NMS (network management service). It's sort of like WhatsUp Gold on roids. Also, make sure you are up on SNMP versions 1, 2, and 3. You may have to interact with devices that only speak version 1 so knowing that is good for backwards compatibility. I used to manage some older Nokia DSLAMs and they only spoke V1. V1 and V2 are very similar. V3 ads authentication and a few other features.

here is a good paper somebody wrote on the differences between SNMP. I would also read the RFCs.

http://www.infosecwriters.com/text_resources/pdf/SNMP_BMatt.pdf

Big Jizay

Paul Boz wrote: »

Openview is a ISP or large scale corporate network grade NMS (network management service). It's sort of like WhatsUp Gold on roids. Also, make sure you are up on SNMP versions 1, 2, and 3. You may have to interact with devices that only speak version 1 so knowing that is good for backwards compatibility. I used to manage some older Nokia DSLAMs and they only spoke V1. V1 and V2 are very similar. V3 ads authentication and a few other features.

here is a good paper somebody wrote on the differences between SNMP. I would also read the RFCs.

http://www.infosecwriters.com/text_resources/pdf/SNMP_BMatt.pdf

Openview looks pretty good! I hope my NOC has this in their department. I also checked out the pdf that you suggested, very interesting. I overhear people in the NOC talking about SNMP a lot. I didn't know how much there was to SNMP.

I saw an Openview version that was labeled as a HP-UX version. I've seen the label "HP-UX" a few times in company emails before. I'm guessing that UX means Unix. Most of our boxes are Unix boxes. Could this be the version that my NOC uses? I'm just guessing here on a few things, so if this doesn't make sense, I apologize.

Big Jizay

Today I noticed that an official position for the NOC opened up. Some people from the NOC are encouraging me to apply for the job. This is the opportunity that I've been looking for. I have to get my resume together and turn it in Monday. Should I go up to the NOC manager personally and show interest in the position, or should I just turn my resume in to HR, along with the others? I don't know him well, but I know him well enough to talk small talk with him. I really want this job, and I don't want to screw up this opportunity. Does anyone have any suggestions?

murdatapes

Big Jizay wrote: »

Today I noticed that an official position for the NOC opened up. Some people from the NOC are encouraging me to apply for the job. This is the opportunity that I've been looking for. I have to get my resume together and turn it in Monday. Should I go up to the NOC manager personally and show interest in the position, or should I just turn my resume in to HR, along with the others? I don't know him well, but I know him well enough to talk small talk with him. I really want this job, and I don't want to screw up this opportunity. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Go to him Big. You pretty much already said how you should do it.

"Hey how are you doing. My name is Big, and I work in the __________ department. I was looking at the ______ and noticed a position was open in the NOC, I wanted to definitely pursue this position, cause I think would be a good fit with you guys down there (or wherever)"

Done

Sound excited when talking to him.

Big Jizay

murdatapes wrote: »

Go to him Big. You pretty much already said how you should do it.

"Hey how are you doing. My name is Big, and I work in the __________ department. I was looking at the ______ and noticed a position was open in the NOC, I wanted to definitely pursue this position, cause I think would be a good fit with you guys down there (or wherever)"

Done

Sound excited when talking to him.

I was thinking the same thing. I will definitely talk to him Monday. I believe the sounding excited part will come naturally, as I am excited

. It's a double blessing. Getting out of helpdesk by itself is wonderful, but to get into the NOC on top of that...I'd feel on top of the world. I'm going to make this happen. I'll be sure to post the results sometime soon. Thanks

mikej412

Big Jizay wrote: »

Some people from the NOC are encouraging me to apply for the job.

Double check with those people and see what they think -- but pending any unforeseen advice from those people, it never hurts to let someone know that you'd like to work for them

Big Jizay

Well, I went into the NOC manager's office today, and showed him that I was interested in the position. He told that the NOC is opening two positions and that he needs those spots to be filled by the end of the month. He said to go to HR, and give them my resume and internal application. I was feeling good about applying to the NOC, then I heard that the manager towards the end of the day got fired. The supervisor was fired a few days ago. Actually, this will make the NOC a more peaceful department to work in. Those two were not nice guys. Now I really want to apply! I'm going to turn in my resume and application to HR sometime this week. Hopefully there's someone to hire me though lol. I don't know where the resume will end up at after going through HR. I'll just hope for the best

GAngel

Big Jizay wrote: »

Well, I went into the NOC manager's office today, and showed him that I was interested in the position. He told that the NOC is opening two positions and that he needs those spots to be filled by the end of the month. He said to go to HR, and give them my resume and internal application. I was feeling good about applying to the NOC, then I heard that the manager towards the end of the day got fired. The supervisor was fired a few days ago. Actually, this will make the NOC a more peaceful department to work in. Those two were not nice guys. Now I really want to apply! I'm going to turn in my resume and application to HR sometime this week. Hopefully there's someone to hire me though lol. I don't know where the resume will end up at after going through HR. I'll just hope for the best

When I got my first NOC job I was in the deskside group 3 mths. I went to the NOC manager and asked what I'd have to do to get in and his reply was give me your resume.

I had A+,N+,MCDST and a couple other small certs. He told me work towards my CCNA and linux and 2 weeks later they offered me the job. It was for one of the biggest airports in N/A. That job launched my career which is probably as far away from that as you can get now.

The moral is you'll never know unless you try and where you want to be is just as important as where you are right now.