GNS3 machine/ general machines

Bl8ckr0uter

Greetings all:

Thinking ahead to the CCNP and beyond, I have been shopping for a new GNS3 machine. I was thinking about buying or building. If I buy I was thinking about either this:
Asus - Essentio Desktop with Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor - CG5270-BP003
I saw one at the local best buy (I know I know) for slightly less and since I use to work there I could get an even better discount.

If i build I was thinking about building around this motherboard and processor combo: Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

I know that I need at least 6gb of ram. The issue would be either DDR2 or 3. I could get more ram with DDR 2 but I (supposedly) could get more performance with DDR3. The cost of DDR3 is so low that the price difference would be a non-issue. It would be a better experience but also would be more costly to build. Any suggestions anyone, specifically gns3 users?

networker050184

I don't see why you would need 6gb of ram for a computer to run GNS3 on. I use dynamips with dynagen on an old laptop with 2gb ram running Ubuntu. It does everything I need it to do just fine.

msteinhilber

I would build your own, the Asus option would be convenient but lack flexibility more than likely.

I would personally go with an i7 or i5 if you are on a tighter budget, the board prices have come down and you can stick even 12gb of RAM in fairly inexpensively.

Then you would have to decide if you want to stick a bunch of network interfaces into it which would require a motherboard with a handful of PCI slots if you desire to go with used quad-port network cards from ebay, or you have the option of going with USB network interfaces, or some people go with a single interface and run a 802.1q trunk to a breakout switch.

Bl8ckr0uter

Ubuntu will be my os of choice as well.

I need another machine anywhere. I plan to use it as my main box anyway. But I need it to be able to run GNS3 for my CCNP studies. I figure I **** about 1000 into a new machine and then purchase some 3550s and along with an 871w that should be good right?

Paul Boz

Why would you spend over $700 to emulate hardware you can buy for the same price? Seriously, you can build a CCNP lab for the cost of what you're trying to accomplish.

Bl8ckr0uter

Paul Boz wrote: »

Why would you spend over $800 to emulate hardware you can buy for the same price? Seriously, you can build a CCNP lab for the cost of what you're trying to accomplish.

Well I want a new computer anyway.

Well on another note (since you have your ccnp among other things):
For the CCNP I was thinking of this:

871W ( I am buying this to be my personal router)
2 3550s
GNS3 for all other needs

in addition what I already have
2 2950s
3 1721s
1 2610 (FR)


What would you suggest instead of that (gns3)?

msteinhilber

Paul Boz wrote: »

Why would you spend over $800 to emulate hardware you can buy for the same price? Seriously, you can build a CCNP lab for the cost of what you're trying to accomplish.

I think he's intending to use it as his primary desktop as well as for training. The only reason I went with the rig that I have (i7, 12gb ram, raid 10 500gb's) was to run a bunch of virtual machines on a single box. If it wasn't for that, I would have built a much lower end machine, I think he's coming from a similar standpoing.

I kind of put my Cisco studies on hold, but if/when I delve down that road again I'll just upgrade my real hardware. I much prefer having a rack of real gear and cabling and re-cabling as needed. It's more fun and less headaches (and the geek factor of having a rack full of gear is a plus), but I can see where dynamips would be useful.

Bl8ckr0uter

msteinhilber wrote: »

I think he's intending to use it as his primary desktop as well as for training. The only reason I went with the rig that I have (i7, 12gb ram, raid 10 500gb's) was to run a bunch of virtual machines on a single box. If it wasn't for that, I would have built a much lower end machine, I think he's coming from a similar standpoing.

You hit is square on the head.

msteinhilber wrote: »

I kind of put my Cisco studies on hold, but if/when I delve down that road again I'll just upgrade my real hardware. I much prefer having a rack of real gear and cabling and re-cabling as needed. It's more fun and less headaches (and the geek factor of having a rack full of gear is a plus), but I can see where dynamips would be useful.

Now see this is where I get confused. I have talked with several people (online+f2f) who have said for the CCNP , get GNS3 running on a "excellent" machine and focus the majority of your monies on decent layer 3 switches, preferable 3550s or 60s (60s are out of my price range). I have a house but I don't have an unlimited amount of space in my work room for routers+switches, etc. Plus once running, the only difference would be the throughtput, and config-register commands. I have read on other forums where people do CCIE level work on GNS3. There is a company (IPexpert or Internetworkexpert) that offers labs designed just for GNS3. With a decent machine I can run as many routers as needed. Something I cannot do with real hardware for a variety of reasons.

For those on the CCXP level (and those with general experience in the area) which is better for getting to that level: Real or GNS3. I need to get this done quickly (along with the other things in my sig, by the end of next year) and I also want to retain that knowledge. I think that the 1721s are ok my cabling and "real" experience (in terms of hardware) and everything else can be emulated....

Yes, no, or maybe so?

EDIT:

GNS3 will not be this machines primary or main function. It will be a part of its duties. I still need a machine that will run as many vms as I need, splat, multiple os versions, and one that won't die on me when Im trying to do all of these things at once.

Maybe I need to step it up and start building an I7 machine.

msteinhilber

knwminus wrote: »

Now see this is where I get confused. I have talked with several people (online+f2f) who have said for the CCNP , get GNS3 running on a "excellent" machine and focus the majority of your monies on decent layer 3 switches, preferable 3550s or 60s (60s are out of my price range). I have a house but I don't have an unlimited amount of space in my work room for routers+switches, etc. Plus once running, the only difference would be the throughtput, and config-register commands. I have read on other forums where people do CCIE level work on GNS3. There is a company (IPexpert or Internetworkexpert) that offers labs designed just for GNS3. With a decent machine I can run as many routers as needed. Something I cannot do with real hardware for a variety of reasons.

For those on the CCXP level (and those with general experience in the area) which is better for getting to that level: Real or GNS3. I need to get this done quickly (along with the other things in my sig, by the end of next year) and I also want to retain that knowledge. I think that the 1721s are ok my cabling and "real" experience (in terms of hardware) and everything else can be emulated....

Yes, no, or maybe so?

EDIT:

GNS3 will not be this machines primary or main function. It will be a part of its duties. I still need a machine that will run as many vms as I need, splat, multiple os versions, and one that won't die on me when Im trying to do all of these things at once.

Maybe I need to step it up and start building an I7 machine.

My main draw away from dynamips or it's gui'ed variants is the process of setting up your config files, configuration registers, finding an ios version with a config register that works well and lets you run enough router instances for your lab, etc.

I'm the kind of guy that I want to jump in and get going with minimal effort in that kind of situation. Basically, I don't want to have to invest time learning how to learn - I couldn't bring myself to sit down and learn dynamips (I wasn't using GNS3 then so I'm not sure how much configuration is required for that) all before I could really get down to business studying Cisco. I don't have anything against learning things, but I would rather focus my effort on jumping right into physical routers and switches. Dynamips ultimately can be used very well as a tool to train on, it's just a manner of personal preference really.

That being said, if you're anticipating heavy VM usage - i7 with 12gb of ram is excellent for this. My setup includes 4 500gb Seagate 7200.12 drives in RAID 10 for VM's. The OS and data are on other drives. I have had 10 VM's under VMware Workstation using 9GB of RAM when I was running Vista x64 and I could still do just about anything including play World of Warcraft back when I was wasting time doing that.

Paul Boz

knwminus wrote: »

Well I want a new computer anyway.

Well on another note (since you have your ccnp among other things):
For the CCNP I was thinking of this:

871W ( I am buying this to be my personal router)
2 3550s
2 2950s
3 1721s
1 2610 (FR)


What would you suggest instead of that (gns3)?

Buy a 2621 for a hundred bucks and call it a day. What you specked out is close enough to a decent CCIE lab... two layer switches is actually overkill for the CCNP but will serve you nicely.

For the record, I am by no means a hater of virtualizing your Cisco studies. I have walked that path though, and found that real equipment made me more prepared for the exams and for real life. You wind up learning a lot of useless stuff using emulators (mainly how to configure them). That time could wisely be spent learning how to actually handle a live network device. A guy I know got his CCNA using Dynamips only and when he got a job and couldn't boot into ROMMON to recover a password he got looked at quite oddly at his place of employment. There's more to a Cisco router/switch than the CLI.

Bl8ckr0uter

msteinhilber wrote: »

My main draw away from dynamips or it's gui'ed variants is the process of setting up your config files, configuration registers, finding an ios version with a config register that works well and lets you run enough router instances for your lab, etc.

I'm the kind of guy that I want to jump in and get going with minimal effort in that kind of situation. Basically, I don't want to have to invest time learning how to learn - I couldn't bring myself to sit down and learn dynamips (I wasn't using GNS3 then so I'm not sure how much configuration is required for that) all before I could really get down to business studying Cisco. I don't have anything against learning things, but I would rather focus my effort on jumping right into physical routers and switches. Dynamips ultimately can be used very well as a tool to train on, it's just a manner of personal preference really.

That being said, if you're anticipating heavy VM usage - i7 with 12gb of ram is excellent for this. My setup includes 4 500gb Seagate 7200.12 drives in RAID 10 for VM's. The OS and data are on other drives. I have had 10 VM's under VMware Workstation using 9GB of RAM when I was running Vista x64 and I could still do just about anything including play World of Warcraft back when I was wasting time doing that.

I totally agree. If possible I would like to have all hardware routers, switches, ap, etc but that really isn't possible for me (right now anyway). I think that a decent computer (12gb of ram maybe a good goal but 8gb should be ok to start).

I wonder if dual xeons would be a better buy....hmm..

Bl8ckr0uter

Paul Boz wrote: »

Buy a 2621 for a hundred bucks and call it a day. What you specked out is close enough to a decent CCIE lab... two layer switches is actually overkill for the CCNP but will serve you nicely.

For the record, I am by no means a hater of virtualizing your Cisco studies. I have walked that path though, and found that real equipment made me more prepared for the exams and for real life. You wind up learning a lot of useless stuff using emulators (mainly how to configure them). That time could wisely be spent learning how to actually handle a live network device. A guy I know got his CCNA using Dynamips only and when he got a job and couldn't boot into ROMMON to recover a password he got looked at quite oddly at his place of employment. There's more to a Cisco router/switch than the CLI.

Are you saying in addition to the things I mentioned in my post buy a 2621 or just buy a 2621. I currently have now 3 1721s 2 2950s and a 2610 (FR). You are saying that a 2621 would make this a ccnp lab or a 2621 plus 35x0 would make this a ccnp lab?

Paul Boz

knwminus wrote: »

Are you saying in addition to the things I mentioned in my post buy a 2621 or just buy a 2621. I currently have now 3 1721s 2 2950s and a 2610 (FR). You are saying that a 2621 would make this a ccnp lab or a 2621 plus 35x0 would make this a ccnp lab?

I did the CCNP with one 3550 switch, two 2950 switches, and and three 2600 series routers. As long as your routers can run IOS 12.4 you are fine. Hell the sims on the CCIP were still using 12.2 commands when I took that last year...

In total my lab was like $700. You basically want one L3 switch for the BCMSN, two layer 2 switches to go with it for spanning tree and its variants, and three routers. Again, if you can run 12.3 or 12.4 on your current routers you're set. Keep in mind that switches are on a different IOS build than routers so any 2950 will do.

Bl8ckr0uter

Paul Boz wrote: »

I did the CCNP with one 3550 switch, two 2950 switches, and and three 2600 series routers. As long as your routers can run IOS 12.4 you are fine. Hell the sims on the CCIP were still using 12.2 commands when I took that last year...

In total my lab was like $700. You basically want one L3 switch for the BCMSN, two layer 2 switches to go with it for spanning tree and its variants, and three routers. Again, if you can run 12.3 or 12.4 on your current routers you're set. Keep in mind that switches are on a different IOS build than routers so any 2950 will do.

I'll take you word for it. But you have taken a way a good excuse to by or build a new box. That wasn't very nice.

Paul Boz

knwminus wrote: »

I'll take you word for it. But you have taken a way a good excuse to by or build a new box. That wasn't very nice.

Keep in mind that I don't even have a desktop PC at home. all I use is a dell xpsm1330 (13 inch laptop) for checking my email and web browsing. Just like a cleaning lady doesn't want to go home and clean house after work, I don't want to go home and sit in front of a computer. I'm only in the office half the time due to my travel schedule and sometimes THAT feels a bit much.

Bl8ckr0uter

Paul Boz wrote: »

Keep in mind that I don't even have a desktop PC at home. all I use is a dell xpsm1330 (13 inch laptop) for checking my email and web browsing. Just like a cleaning lady doesn't want to go home and clean house after work, I don't want to go home and sit in front of a computer. I'm only in the office half the time due to my travel schedule and sometimes THAT feels a bit much.

I can understand that.


I have another question:

For the CCIP do you think that the list of routers would be enough or would GNS3 come into play there? I have heard that the CCIP is router heavy.

miller811

While working through the NP I started out using real hardware, and still have a rack full of real hardware, but in my opionion there is nothing better than firing up GNS3 and running labs. With the real hardware, I continually had to move cables, and clear and reconfigure, etc, in the time it takes to get up and go to the rack I can build and boot up a new lab with GNS3. I am currently reading Routing TCP/IP Volume 1 and labbing up as I go, and can duplicate everything they are doing in no time.
I have an older Gateway computer running XP, 3 Gigs of ram P4, and can run 8 routers no problem. So, you do not need a screamer to get the job done, but if it helps justify buying one, by all means go for it.

Bl8ckr0uter

miller811 wrote: »

While working through the NP I started out using real hardware, and still have a rack full of real hardware, but in my opionion there is nothing better than firing up GNS3 and running labs. With the real hardware, I continually had to move cables, and clear and reconfigure, etc, in the time it takes to get up and go to the rack I can build and boot up a new lab with GNS3. I am currently reading Routing TCP/IP Volume 1 and labbing up as I go, and can duplicate everything they are doing in no time.
I have an older Gateway computer running XP, 3 Gigs of ram P4, and can run 8 routers no problem. So, you do not need a screamer to get the job done, but if it helps justify buying one, by all means go for it.

do you connect gns3 to real equipment?

miller811

knwminus wrote: »

do you connect gns3 to real equipment?

Other than a loopback on my pc so I can run SDM, I have never attempted it..
Typically if I am doing switching lab, I would just use the real gear.

I do know that they have predesigned CCIE layouts in GNS3

I do have
2 3550's
2 2950's
and about 14 routers I have gathered up in the last few years

EdTheLad

Dynamips wins hands down, i just edit the .net file,piece of cake,i dont use GNS3.I connect 3550s to the PC,i've got a pic of my lab in the ccie forum.I use 2 quad port eth nic cards and a usb hub with eth-usb adapters.
I sold the rest of my routers, dynamips in my opinion is far better and quicker to use than real equipment.I leave my pc on 24/7, whenever i wanna check something its easy, with the real lab you will probably find yourself switching on an off and for a little thing you wont bother to switch on etc.
Moving cables, checking connectors etc it all burns time.

Bl8ckr0uter

miller811 wrote: »

Other than a loopback on my pc so I can run SDM, I have never attempted it..
Typically if I am doing switching lab, I would just use the real gear.

I do know that they have predesigned CCIE layouts in GNS3

I do have
2 3550's
2 2950's
and about 14 routers I have gathered up in the last few years

I see. My main reason for buying a new machine was for vms/gns3/and general studies. I have looked at the cost of routers and I think Paul's suggestion of getting a 3550 and a 2621(xm) was good. I think that I will buy a machine, but my next server I will put together by hand (good experience for the Ser+).

My only problem with the my existing 1721s is A: they don't support voice. B: they only have 1 fe port. I think I might get about 2-3 2621s along with the 871w I plan to buy for my personal uses and that should be enough to get me through the CCNP. Hopefully I wont need to buy anything else until I start the CCIP/CCSP.

Bl8ckr0uter

EdTheLad wrote: »

Dynamips wins hands down, i just edit the .net file,piece of cake,i dont use GNS3.I connect 3550s to the PC,i've got a pic of my lab in the ccie forum.I use 2 quad port eth nic cards and a usb hub with eth-usb adapters.
I sold the rest of my routers, dynamips in my opinion is far better and quicker to use than real equipment.I leave my pc on 24/7, whenever i wanna check something its easy, with the real lab you will probably find yourself switching on an off and for a little thing you wont bother to switch on etc.
Moving cables, checking connectors etc it all burns time.

What kind of machine you are running if you don't mind me asking? (Specs wise)


Was GNS3 enough for the CCIP/CCNP?

EdTheLad

Intel Core 2
6400@2.13Ghz
4GB Ram

I can run a full ccie lab with this machine using ubuntu.GNS3 is enough for ccie no mind ccnp/ccip.To be honest i think anyone who's has past hw experience would be mad to buy a router, each to their own i guess.
If and when i do want to play on real equipment i can rent afew hours online, the only reason i would need to do this is for playing with Qos or checking some features on the 3560 that the 3550 doesnt support.

Bl8ckr0uter

EdTheLad wrote: »

Intel Core 2
6400@2.13Ghz
4GB Ram

I can run a full ccie lab with this machine using ubuntu.GNS3 is enough for ccie no mind ccnp/ccip.To be honest i think anyone who's has past hw experience would be mad to buy a router, each to their own i guess.
If and when i do want to play on real equipment i can rent afew hours online, the only reason i would need to do this is for playing with Qos or checking some features on the 3560 that the 3550 doesnt support.

D$%^ dude your selling me. This is what I was thinking:

Ubuntu (cant decided between server or desktop edition)
Dual-Xeon Processors
6 gb of ram
quad-port nics
etc...

I was thinking 4 ports should be enough for me. I plan to connect to some 3550s and then connect the 3550s to some 2950s.
I think that it would be enough for the CCNP/CCIP. The real issue will be the CCSP. I have been told that asas can be had for cheap. Gns3 can emulate a pix. But that is a different story.

Edit: I wonder is the average nic port can handle 802.1q (ROAS)....

EdTheLad

The nics i bought support 802.1q, they are cheap 10/100BaseT, Adaptec PCI adapter.The usb-eth adapters dont.Make sure you buy a chassis with 2 or 3 regular pci slots, my advice would be yo buy at least 2 of these nics, that was you can scale to ccie and have some extra ports to play with.

Bl8ckr0uter

EdTheLad wrote: »

The nics i bought support 802.1q, they are cheap 10/100BaseT, Adaptec PCI adapter.The usb-eth adapters dont.Make sure you buy a chassis with 2 or 3 regular pci slots, my advice would be yo buy at least 2 of these nics, that was you can scale to ccie and have some extra ports to play with.

The board Im thinking getting has 2 built in gb cards. Im hoping that it supports 802.1q.


By the way thanks for the replies. Not just to Ed but to everyone else as well. I will be joining you all soon by obtaining my ccnp and beyond.

sabhishek44@gmail.com

Hi,

My system is Running With Intel dual Core processor.wid 2.4 Ghz and i am havin 1 GB ddr2 Ram...my system hangs if i use more than 3 routers.Is there is any suggestion can i run that software????...thanks in advance

miller811

sabhishek44@gmail.com wrote: »

Hi,

My system is Running With Intel dual Core processor.wid 2.4 Ghz and i am havin 1 GB ddr2 Ram...my system hangs if i use more than 3 routers.Is there is any suggestion can i run that software????...thanks in advance

have you set the idle pc setting for the routers?
are you running decompressed images, or compressed images?

Bl8ckr0uter

sabhishek44@gmail.com wrote: »

Hi,

My system is Running With Intel dual Core processor.wid 2.4 Ghz and i am havin 1 GB ddr2 Ram...my system hangs if i use more than 3 routers.Is there is any suggestion can i run that software????...thanks in advance

That was a big problem for me on my current machine but my specs werent as great as yours.

Make sure you set the idle pc settings (I let gns3 calculate them instead of doing them manually). What does you processor percentage use read when you computer hangs?

You may need more ram in you box.

ColbyG

miller811 wrote: »

While working through the NP I started out using real hardware, and still have a rack full of real hardware, but in my opionion there is nothing better than firing up GNS3 and running labs. With the real hardware, I continually had to move cables, and clear and reconfigure, etc, in the time it takes to get up and go to the rack I can build and boot up a new lab with GNS3.

Same here. I did most of my NP with real hardware, but only because I hadn't played with Dynamips much at that point. If I were doing it all over again I would have used Dynamips as much as humanly possible.

I use a Dell T100 (loaded with 8gb of RAM) running ESXi4 with Dynamips in a VM. I think I've gotten up to ~20 routers so far, just playing around. I don't think I could max this box out with any real lab.

Bl8ckr0uter

ColbyNA wrote: »

Same here. I did most of my NP with real hardware, but only because I hadn't played with Dynamips much at that point. If I were doing it all over again I would have used Dynamips as much as humanly possible.

I use a Dell T100 (loaded with 8gb of RAM) running ESXi4 with Dynamips in a VM. I think I've gotten up to ~20 routers so far, just playing around. I don't think I could max this box out with any real lab.

You sir have issued the knockout punch. GNS3 is going to be my friend for the CCNP and beyond. Now I need to either build or buy a machine. I am leaning towards building but with the cost of things these days, buying might not be a bad option either. in my op, the asus machine was really all I would need and I priced out the parts, I couldn't build it cheaper.

But since I have never build a machine from scratch (I have replaced parts but never from the ground up) I may want to do it just for experience.