Did I Say the Wrong Thing?

the_Grinch

So for the past week the boss above my boss has said we need to talk. He basically wanted to shoot the breeze, see where I was at with the job, and to see how some projects are going. As you guys know, I hate my job. I was hired for one thing and did a complete 180 to doing something totally different (no helpdesk turned into all the helpdesk for about 200 people locally (one location 3 hours away) and all the remote sales people). Now my boss knows I've been unhappy and I figure he's expressed that to his boss.

So we sit down this morning and we're talking. Now I am part of a 3 person IT department and I am actually the only person with an IT background (degree plus a year of field tech work, plus countless years of fixing other peoples stuff). He asks how I'm doing and I say I don't understand how my boss and the other lady have done this job for 10 and 19 years respectively. He says he understands and that he knows it wasn't what I was suppose to be doing nor what I wanted to be doing. Now I explained that working in a security position is probably way off no matter where I was, but yes I didn't want to continue the endless troubleshooting work I do. I also said that it wasn't great to be handed projects out of no where (phones, new copiers, and training sales reps on a system I barely know).

Then he says he understands if I began looking for a new job. I stated that I had and my plan was to keep them in the loop about it. He said that was fine and that if I could stay till at least January that would be perfect. No problem there because no one has called me for a job anyway. He then asked if there was anyway I would stay. Now I am in a 3 person IT department with literally no where to go. I have no business training and even a bump in salary is going to make me enjoy the job. So I said I couldn't see any progression that would make me stay.

Most of the people I talked to have said I was dumb for a number of things I said. If they paid me $100k a year to troubleshoot computers I wouldn't be happy. They could create a fancy title (titles mean nothing at my company) and I would still be the "my mouse doesn't work" guy. He asked about maybe taking over the department (no timeframe so I assume down the line) and I don't feel I am ready for that and I'm a hands on kind of guy so I'd rather do that now while I am young. So I am pretty sure I won't be getting a Christmas bonus or a raise (raises at the end of the year). But was I wrong for airing my issues? I always hated giving my two weeks and people saying "we didn't know you weren't happy here." Also, there is no where to go in the company.

miller811

In a word.... YES you said something wrong.

It is like the old saying never burn your bridges, which is normally used after you leave a company. It appears that you burned the bridge while still on the island, and now you may be voted off the island. In this environment, you should never show disgust for your job or employer, now you may be gone in January whether you have a job lined up or not.

Bl8ckr0uter

I agree with miller. What you said was bad, but how you feel is not wrong at all. You could have been a little more "respectful" of your bosses position and tactful with your words. I would try to go back to your boss and patch things up.....unless you really want to leave in January.

Jobs still are not extremely easy to come by.

the_Grinch

Perhaps. I don't feel I burnt a bridge as the boss of my boss is a fairly straight shooter and prefers honesty. But yeah you guys are right I could have worded it better. A big part of it is frustration with the job and company as a whole. Where it is expected that I work ten hour days two times a week and not get paid for it, while others get overtime to do a job wrong. I just didn't see where there were a ton of options. But again you guys are right, should have worded it better.

stephens316

I did the same thing in a company I was working. My boss didn't really do anything for us, but give us his work on top of our regular job and surrounded me with people that had no business in a help desk position. They didn't want to learn or get along and i just got frustated and then a bunch polices came down I didn't agree with so I flat told him I am looking at leaving and then 2 wks later they fired me for no cause except to say i lied about what I had done about an issue. This company is a failure and I only found out after I was hired and been there six months. Thing I see about it is gives me the opportunity for a new job and something better at better company, only problem I have is I don't care much for IT staffing firms in how they operate I want to know about the current company and how it operates. I will never take a job out of the blue again. While I know issues exist I try to look past them for a better place for myself.

Bl8ckr0uter

the_Grinch wrote: »

Perhaps. I don't feel I burnt a bridge as the boss of my boss is a fairly straight shooter and prefers honesty. But yeah you guys are right I could have worded it better. A big part of it is frustration with the job and company as a whole. Where it is expected that I work ten hour days two times a week and not get paid for it, while others get overtime to do a job wrong. I just didn't see where there were a ton of options. But again you guys are right, should have worded it better.

How large is the company? Is there someone else you can talk to about this? Are you close to any of the C-levels?

brad-

I did the same thing as well. My bosses knew we were underpaid, I told them for months upon months that my salary wasnt going to be enough, particularly after I finished the B.S. I started looking around, told them i was looking around. When I finally found something, they did not counter, and I left.

However, I liked my bosses, and in hindsight, was glad I was upfront with them. That enabled me to go back and do contract work for them later on.

I dont think I can difinitively say you were right or wrong. Everyone's situation is different. For the most part, its probably not a good thing to do...but there are circumstances and relationships where it is good.

networker050184

I'm sure he appreciated the honesty but to me it sounded like you were whining. I understand you are frustrated with the job but you should never lay it out like that without having another job already lined up. Espesially to your bosses boss. Calling out your boss like that to his boss raises major red flags and will bring some major heat down on you.

If I were him I'd start looking for your replacement immediately. I'd suggest you do your best to find something new pronto. Any job is better than no job. And hopefully you can some how still get a good reference out of your current job.

Hyper-Me

They arent necessarily going to fire him because hes unhappy at work. a decent manager would want to know WHY hes unhappy and how they can improve it (afterall, no manager wants a job role he manages to be a revolving door, it looks bad on them)

However, if he is unhappy anyway, it wouldnt hurt to just look elsewhere.

Although I know id do about anything for 100k a year

phoeneous

You have one year of work experience... dont expect the world at this stage of your career. Earn your bones.

networker050184

Hyper-Me wrote: »

They arent necessarily going to fire him because hes unhappy at work. a decent manager would want to know WHY hes unhappy and how they can improve it (afterall, no manager wants a job role he manages to be a revolving door, it looks bad on them)

However, if he is unhappy anyway, it wouldnt hurt to just look elsewhere.

Although I know id do about anything for 100k a year

I don't think he will get the ax because he said he was unhappy, but because he said he has no plans of staying and is already looking for a job. That on top of talking down about his boss and coworker.

L0gicB0mb508

I think expressing you weren't so happy with the position isn't a bad thing. Telling him right out that you are planning on leaving in the future wasn't a good move really. I know it's paramount to be honest, but I probably would have just chose not to tell them that in such an upfront way. I pretty much did the same thing once, only I was waiting for a position to go through. This really screwed me in the end. They started taking work away from me, and basically cutting me out in a rather hasty pace. I had given them about 2 months advanced warning. After I did that, I ended up working there maybe 2 weeks longer. I luckily had enough contacts to find some short term work until my contractor position went through. Your mileage may vary.

Kaminsky

You should have said "What did you have in mind ...... ?" and see what they offer.

laidbackfreak

Kaminsky wrote: »

You should have said "What did you have in mind ...... ?" and see what they offer.

+1 for this.

Imo you shot yourself in the foot. While yes you could have let him know you werent happy, although tbh sounds like already was aware. BUT you really should have listened to offers of how to improve your situation.
While you may only be 1 of 3 guys who fix the mice, do you know what plans the business has ?
I can't re-iterate the fact you should NEVER talk down about your boss\colleagues and even former employers in any situation. You can convey your un-happiness in more ways without pointing at others and saying "there cr@p" or similar. Talk about your frustrations and how you lack directions etc yes but never place blame at others.

If I was you I would be looking hard for another role, as imo you have just marked your own card!

the_Grinch

Maybe I have to explain a bit (I re-read my first post) as I can't see how I talked down about my boss. When I said I didn't know how my boss and the other IT person had done it so long, it was in reference to the amount of work they do. Basically, they could be working on a project (such as the switch to a new ERP system) and have to stop to run a report from the old system. This is a constant thing that gets them to the point where they can spend their whole day doing it not getting other things done. Also, during the conversation, I didn't mention being the only one with an IT background (in the sense of troubleshooting problems, etc).

Perhaps I could have seen what plans they possibly had, but in talking to my boss I didn't see much of a change besides the new ERP system. The company has spent minimal on IT for the past 10 years and like most companies sees it solely as a cost. As always thanks for the advice guys!

tpatt100

I would not be surprised if you get walked out in January. I did an interview once at a different site from where the job was. The reason they did it at a different site was because they were looking to replace somebody. You pretty much told them to look for a replacement, don't be surprised if they can you before you find another job.

laidbackfreak

Fair play you may not have talked down about your boss, probably my misinterpretation but I still think it was a mistake to let them know you were actively looking. The offer to keep them in the loop while you look is noble, but I bet they don't keep you informed while they recruit someone else.

As I said I could be wrong but I wouldn’t want to bet on it.

The only other thing that jumps out at me is being un-happy having projects handed to you out of the blue. I think I've had this everywhere I've worked and it's one of the things I love about this industry the exposure to so many new things and the constant change.

That said no one looks forward to change apart from a baby with a wet nappy (diaper)

joey74055

Well I would say you broke rule #1: Never ever tell your employer that your looking for another job! Now that they know, they are obligated to find someone to replace you because as far as they know you could leave at any time. Now they will probably be looking for someone secretly and as soon as they land someone will probably let you go which will put you in a bind if if haven't already got a job lined up.

miller811

reminds me of the time when a guy who had worked for a company for several years and was in good standing was talking with the Corporate Manager and was offered a position to manage the new location they were in the process of opening. He informed them that he would not be interested because he was getting married in three months and would be moving after the wedding.

They fired him that day, and said if they needed to train a replacement them might as well start the process now.

nel

No Offence mate but you mayswell of put a gun to your head!!

even if you felt that you shouldnt tell the truth flat out! even if you do hate it! it will cause you nothing but trouble.

Best thing you can do in that situation is hang on until you get another position then jump ship! Unless your loaded, which i assume your not if your having to work in IT

iowatech

Assuming your tone was positive and upbeat during the conversation there is nothing wrong with talking about how you feel to your supervisor it just needs to be done in the right setting and under the correct circumstances. Was it the right time? That alone is something only you know the answer to.

With that being said you mentioned that: "Now I am part of a 3 person IT department and I am actually the only person with an IT background "

So how big is the company? If you're getting the oppurtunity to run the IT department for a decent sized business what an oppurtunity that would be. You could get manager experience plus go through the whole system and find its flaws and weaknesses and address them. By the time it came to leave the company (if you chose to) your resume` would be jammed with real decision making experience and technology experience.

Is what I said possible in your current situation or is that pipedream at this point?

UnixGuy

I so wanted to give Kaminsky +1...he's one of my favorite writers in this forum !!



You could've asked what they have to offer, but on the other hand, (from what you said) it seems that whatever they have to offer isn't good enough...and you have better skills...you're better off somewhere else...I don't think u're gonna regret getting laid off or leaving them anyway...do the needful and start searching for a job...

chrisone

I am not entirely sure about your level of skill set, but it seems like your young and not as experienced. I think experience and certs/skills define how you should approach jobs or demands in your career. If you don't mind, let us know your years in IT, age, and Certs you hold.

I think we can better gauge what your looking for, how you feel, and explain to you how to approach things. You said you were young and i notice you dont have a CCNA, so i just assume your IT career is a bit fresh. I apologize if this is incorrect.

Anyways to put it in short, when you are just starting out you have to pay your dues and do the dirty work. I started from part time, to helpdesk, to system admin, network admin, now i am a network engineer. In IT i have about 8 years with 3 years just doing my passion Networking. I did the dirty work and the crap work, and i always knew i had no clout or experience to backup any demands of a better job or better pay. Even after i got my CCNA i knew in networking i was just a puppy when i started 3 years ago. I had to put up with the "smart guys" talking crap and trying to belittle me or frustrate me in my career. That is over now as i am more experience , i have paid my dues, and i am working to bigger and better things.

In all honesty just be humble, realize your position in IT, and if your fresh and with little experience , realize you dont have much backing or clout to demand bigger pay or better positions.

Also you could be right and its just a crap job, there are probably many less crappier jobs out there, but liek i said you cant demand much if your new to the game. I mean no disrespect to you on this post, but that how i approached my career, by being humbled.

/usr

Yes, you did. You revealed too much information that could potentially put your job at risk.

I'm pretty sure it's an unwritten rule of business that you never tell your boss you're looking for another job. Whether he prefers honesty or not, I can't envision a situation where revealing this puts you at an advantage. You have to be strategic when you're dealing with sensitive situations like this. Talking down about coworkers or questioning their work is something you have to take seriously when you choose to speak your mind. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, or that your boss even cares. I'm just saying that generally speaking, the information you revealed was too much and isn't really going to help you in any way, but could most certainly hurt you.

Also, what do you want to be doing? You mention in your post that a security position is far off and that you don't feel ready to head the department, yet you're frustrated with help desk work?

Unfortunately, as other posters have mentioned, you have to pay your dues and put up with the grunt work. It may take some time, but you'll eventually have paid your dues and will move away from this type of work.

Kaminsky

Don't get us all wrong here. It's obvious you would be better off elsewhere... and just as obvious you would do well wherever you go next and you would be revitalised with the new role.

Were just highlighting you missed a golden opportunity to squeek a bit more reward out of your current role whilst you could have been lining up a nice new one to go to.

Always keep feelings about moving on to yourself.

Be very careful about talking down about others, even to your closest work colleague, the one that has your back. Go half as far as others. They won't be able to save you no matter what.

To your managers and senior staff, never tell them how you feel (that's what their secretaries are for) but just nudge them into the way you want them to think.

There are those in every department that will stay there forever - even though these are usually the ones that moan the most about moving on all the time funnily enough. The majority of others will move on at some point. It's expected. Whether they move up in the company (probably what they were looking for in you reading between the lines) or you move elsewhere, you should never feel deflated enough to think you are in a rutt. If you start feeling that way, like you are, it is time to go BUT prepare your exit strategy for up or out before you do anything.

UnixGuy

chrisone wrote: »

.... I had to put up with the "smart guys" talking crap and trying to belittle me or frustrate me in my career.....

I'm doing HELL LOT of that EVERYDAY !! glad to know I'm not alone

chrisone

hahaha its true man, dont worry dude, seriously thats just the way some people are. They give attitude and talk down to the un-experienced techs because they are more experienced they feel they are smarter, when being smarter than a less experienced tech is not all that entirely true. They are smarter only because they have spent more time in the field, not because they posses a second or third brain or some magical bond or understanding of technology. Thats just the way some guys are when they get to a certain level and forget that they started from the bottom too. No one comes into the game with this superior knowledge in their first year of working. I feel safe to say 99% of us started with little to no understanding of how technology works, then studied, worked hard, and gained experience to get ahead.

Anyways just keep working hard, study, and understand your field/career. Eventually you will be at their level and gain respect. If not then just crack their face with a keyboard like in the movie "Wanted" with angelina jolie lol j/k

drainey

To the OP: the best advice you'll ever get is what most here have said. Never, ever let your job know that there is no way you'd consider staying. I guarantee you they have asked the HR dept. to post ads looking for your replacement. They know you're leaving eventually so keeping you till January just gives them a chance to hire and train your replacement. Good for them, good for the replacement, maybe not so good for you if you don't have something else lined up.

Tell them you're not happy and have solid reasons why with examples -- sure. When they ask if you'd consider something else ask what it is and what it entails, then ask for a couple of days to think about it (even if you have no intention of taking it), that way you look like you are interested in improving your situation not just whining. If they suggest more pay, say you'd never turn down more pay but you'd still like assurances that things can and will improve in regards to your situation.

As for the grunt work, well the first half of the year I was a network engineer with a IT consulting company, then I spent the summer laid off and am now a help desk/desktop support grunt. Do I like being a HD/DTS vs a Network Engineer of course not, but I'm damned happy to have a job. On the plus side, while it's less money the benfits are better and the company I now work for is a much better place to work so I call it a wash. Point being is that even a crappy job is better than no job.

HeroPsycho

Hyper-Me wrote: »

They arent necessarily going to fire him because hes unhappy at work. a decent manager would want to know WHY hes unhappy and how they can improve it (afterall, no manager wants a job role he manages to be a revolving door, it looks bad on them)

Not picking on Hyper-Me in particular here, but it's irrelevant if they might not fire him for saying what he said. Saying you're looking for another job without a job in hand is almost always a really really bad idea. I can't stress this enough.

Do not ever tell your employer you're looking for another job unless you're okay to lose the one you got. If you're okay to lose it right then and there, go for it.

Letting your employers know you're not happy is a bit less risky. But don't ever tell them you're looking for another position unless you're okay to lose that one.

the_Grinch

First, not offended by anything anyone has posted so far. You guys are right I probably should have held back. But, sadly, I've never held back on what I have thought in any given environment. For the most part that has served me well, but as you guys have said probably wasn't the best for this situation. I've had a lot of frustrations with this job and have felt taken advantage of (one of the few things I didn't say in the meeting). I didn't talk down about my co-workers as I have the upmost respect for them and the job they do (when I said I was the only one with an IT background, that was a statement not mention in the meeting).

As for my background, I have my BS in Computing and Security Technology. CEH, CCENT, Security+, and MPSC. As far as experience goes I have 3 years of experience as a manager (movie theater so it was all customer service plus some business related stuff), 1 year as a field tech, and 3 months on a helpdesk. That is verifiable experience, I've been working on computers since before high school. I took this job for a couple of reason. First, I thought I would at least get experience on the Server Admin side (which I have). Second, I had never worked with Dynamics so figured I could give it a try. Third, I thought perhaps that I might be able to move around in the company (I didn't know too much about them prior to working with them).

I really can't word the frustrations with things at this job.

Again, thanks for all your help guys! I wasn't fired today and perhaps they are looking for someone else. I agree I probably should have held back, but I stand by what I said. I still go in everyday and give everything I have.

Bl8ckr0uter

the_Grinch wrote: »

First, not offended by anything anyone has posted so far. You guys are right I probably should have held back. But, sadly, I've never held back on what I have thought in any given environment. For the most part that has served me well, but as you guys have said probably wasn't the best for this situation. I've had a lot of frustrations with this job and have felt taken advantage of (one of the few things I didn't say in the meeting). I didn't talk down about my co-workers as I have the upmost respect for them and the job they do (when I said I was the only one with an IT background, that was a statement not mention in the meeting).

As for my background, I have my BS in Computing and Security Technology. CEH, CCENT, Security+, and MPSC. As far as experience goes I have 3 years of experience as a manager (movie theater so it was all customer service plus some business related stuff), 1 year as a field tech, and 3 months on a helpdesk. That is verifiable experience, I've been working on computers since before high school. I took this job for a couple of reason. First, I thought I would at least get experience on the Server Admin side (which I have). Second, I had never worked with Dynamics so figured I could give it a try. Third, I thought perhaps that I might be able to move around in the company (I didn't know too much about them prior to working with them).

I really can't word the frustrations with things at this job.

Again, thanks for all your help guys! I wasn't fired today and perhaps they are looking for someone else. I agree I probably should have held back, but I stand by what I said. I still go in everyday and give everything I have.

Is it possible that you can talk with your boss again? I would try to chalk the words you said up to something else. I mean just tell your boss it was your time of the month and that it is nothing personal lol ( I know I am going to get a neg for that).
In all seriousness see if you can smooth things over with him. Let him know that you feelings are real but rather than forcing their hand (saying you are looking for a job) offer a solution that is reasonable (like letting you do different work, or asking to be placed on a rotation). One thing that I was told by my boss at my previous job was to never come to your boss with a problem without a solution. Maybe you could even brainstorm with your boss about this (it may help to do this outside of work or something).