Is this guy serious?

I had a talk with someone I know and turns out hes a computer programmer working for some company. He asked me what I'm doing right now and I said im heading into networking and taking classes at CC. He said thats nice but where do I plan to go from there?

I told him after i get my AAS degree im going to take advantage of the Cisco Courses offered and get my CCNA. He said why get an AAS degree+ cert it doesnt mean your going to get a job go get yourself a BA. I told him I know this but I can still try to work as an intern and get experience working with Cisco Equipment.

He goes on telling me that Cisco is pointless and that he has people in his "IT" department that come and fix computer related problems like network printers not working or hard drives not working. I told him that's nice but Cisco really doesn't relate to that he said yeah but your only going to make 20-25k/yr, so its best to get your BA.

So now I tell him that the BA is nice to have but I want to go into NETWORKING not PROGRAMMING and all the schools here in my area (St.Louis) offer BA's in Computer Science which all is focusing on programming. Then we get more into the conversation and he starts telling me without a BA degree your never going to make more then 40k/yr and you will never climb up the ranks and get better positions.

After all that he starts telling me to look for out of state schools and that certs aren't worth it at all because company's don't care if you got a degree from a CC all they look for is a BA degree and certs don't even matter. Man im thinking to myself, this guy is tripping I know damn well there are more people with a BA degree then a CCNP/CCIE.

Finally the conversation ends and hes like just finish your CC and go to a University you will get a good job and make good pay because company's don't care about your CC degree and those certs you got. I was going to tell him that the CC offers a internship and that in the IT field experience is VERY important but he just kept telling me to look for schools in/out of state that offer BA's because I will never make enough money with certs+AAS degree.

So what do you think about this? I think its complete bull, I understand a BA is always nice to have but it depends on the situation. If I finish school with my AAS degree + cert and start working at a company and keep getting experience and push myself to learn more and learn then I personally believe I can make over 40k/yr.

I told him the only reason I wanted to do networking was because I love the job role and it interests me by keeping me on my feet all the time, and above all I told him I don't care about the pay as long as its enough to provide for myself and I LOVE what I do. I told him I rather make that 35k/yr and Love my job then make 80k/yr and hate it.

So whats everyone's input on this?

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Comments

ColbyG

pinkydapimp wrote: »

most places would rather have experience and a college degree. I think the bottom line is, you can be successful with or without a College Degree. However, it will be easier with one.

I think this is relative. If you are comparing two people with identical experience and certs, one has a degree and one doesn't, yea, the guy with the degree will probably be preferred. But, in real life, how often does that happen?

Your resume gets you in the door, your knowledge-level and personality are what get you the job. I would love to have a degree, it definitely couldn't hurt when I'm looking for jobs, but it's just not worth the time right now. I'll get a lot more value (monetarily) from a CCIE (or some other Cisco certs), I also think I'll be able to attain the CCIE quicker than I would a degree.

JoJoCal19

ColbyNA wrote: »

Does it say "preferred" or "required"? Apparently you aren't looking hard enough, or in the right places. Quick search on Indeed:

Cisco Jobs in Tampa, FL | Indeed.com

Most of those jobs don't say that a degree is required, some say "preferred or equivalent experience", which means it's not mandatory.

Again, you're wrong. You're talking about reading some job posts. I'm talking about actual positions I've been asked to interview for. I have yet to be told that a company is not interested because I don't have a degree.

Yes I do see some that done require a Bachelors. I also was not searching Indeed but rather on Careerbuilder, Monster and sometimes Dice.

But I can tell you the competition for these jobs is high and it will be easier with a degree when competing with others that have degrees plus experience.

I have to say once you have obtained Cisco experience and have Cisco certs it would be much easier to obtain higher level positions as your Cisco experience and cert list grows.

jnwdmb

I am certainly not going to do what this guy did and tell you that you have to do X to be successfull. His comments are way off based and inaccurate. You will NOT hurt your career in any way by getting a BA.....lets make that clear off the top, but to say that you are extremely limited without it, well thats comical. I will share the following facts with you and you can draw your own conclusion.

I have been in IT less than two years. I do NOT have a BA, and the little college credits that I do have include zero IT or IT related credits. I worked in manufacturing for 13 years, mostly for boat manufacturers, before pursuing a career in IT. I had zero certs and zero experience when I started.
I live in a low cost of living, rural part of New England, in a town with only 13,000 residents, and although I will not mention what I make specifically.......the notion that my ceiling for earning potential is 40k is laughable and 100% innaccurate and my income exceeded that by a good margin within my first year of employment in IT. In fact, 40k a year is a significant amount of money where I live. I can almost guarantee that where I am located has a lower medium household income than where your friend lives, since here is about 40% lower than the national average.
I actually turned down opportunities that offered more money when I accepted this position. Every offer I received when I was seeking my first full time job in IT (which by the way was at the beginning of this year, right in the doom and gloom period of the recession) exceeded 40k except for one.........all those opportunities were based on some limited part time contract work i did while studying and my certifications I had earned. I could easily make more if I lived in a larger city now that I have even more certs and some actual experience.

I am not out to discredit your friend, but based on actual facts and real world information from outside a classroom........ his thoughts are flawed and innacurate. I would encourage you to not be discouraged by his comments and ask some other professionals in your area what their input/opinions are......I find it hard to believe that everyone you ask will agree with these statements:

"he said yeah but your only going to make 20-25k/yr"
"without a BA degree your never going to make more then 40k/yr "
"company's don't care about your CC degree and those certs you got"
"that certs aren't worth it at all"

There is no magic formula to success, especially in this industry....but if you work hard enough to find success, you will.

stlsmoore

Shiz Stain wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I do agree that in today's situation a BA is a VERY good thing to have and I might look further into it but can't find a school that focuses on networking yet in the St.Louis area, only luck I had so far was Webster.

Webster University: BS in Computer Science with an emphasis in Information Technology

As for me stlmoore I am down at STLCC taking these classes

Required Courses :: St. Louis Community College

Once I get that done I going to enroll in there Cisco Academy and get my CCNA. I have of friend of mine whose enrolled in ITT Tech and is trying to pay off those bigass loans also, but he tells me its worth it for him in the end ( hes trying to get his BA in programming).

**Also if you ever plan to study for your CCNP STLCC offers classes in that aswell
just looking out for you bro

Thanks man, I was looking into enrolling into STLCC for the Cisco Academy for the CCNA to begin with but it takes quite a bit longer than doing the self study option and more expensive in the end. Cisco Acedmy is about a year for CCNA while I was able to knock it out in 2 months on my own time, that and I learn WAYYY more self studying personally. I will say that nothing beats having a real lab to work on, I had to use sims and GNS3.

Turgon

Better off with a degree if you can afford to get one. Shop around and work one parttime if you need to make a living. You can certainly get on without a degree but for many jobs it is a requirement these days.

brad-

dynamik wrote: »

I think the guy has a valid point or two amidst all the BS, but I'd say his perspective is rather skewed overall. It sounds like he's speaking from personal experience and what worked for him. I'd take it with a grain of salt (that's what she said). If networking is your interest, definitely go for the CCNA (and beyond). If you have the opportunity and means, I definitely encourage you to pursue a four-year degree.

Ditto.

Dr_Atomic

I partly agree with your friend. When it comes to what it takes to get a job, I would say the ranking goes like this:

1. Experience
2. Bachelor's degree
3. Certification

In that order. It's what I've found to be true from pounding the pavement looking for work the last three years.

shodown

I think it depends on the person. I"m 28 make 91K as a Tier 2 NOC/VOIP guy with only a AA and the test you see in my name. I still get calls for positions all the time even in this economy. I think its a matter of how you sale yourself and your skills. A AA and CCNA will get your foot in the door. If you want to do networking you can get your foot in the door with that. Getting the BS will get you more oppertunities like it has already been said, but the salaries are way off from what he said. Also your soft skills play a big role in this. I see more IT "geeks" than IT professionals. You have to decide which one you will be. THere are a lot of both types on here and you just have to read there post to see who is who. Sorry for the rant, I just hate when people say college is a all the end all. Its just another tool in your belt.

ColbyG

shodown wrote: »

I think it depends on the person. I"m 28 make 91K as a Tier 2 NOC/VOIP guy with only a AA and the test you see in my name. I still get calls for positions all the time even in this economy. I think its a matter of how you sale yourself and your skills. A AA and CCNA will get your foot in the door. If you want to do networking you can get your foot in the door with that. Getting the BS will get you more oppertunities like it has already been said, but the salaries are way off from what he said. Also your soft skills play a big role in this. I see more IT "geeks" than IT professionals. You have to decide which one you will be. THere are a lot of both types on here and you just have to read there post to see who is who. Sorry for the rant, I just hate when people say college is a all the end all. Its just another tool in your belt.

Do you work in NY or CA? $91k for a level 2 position is very high.

CCIEWANNABE

stlsmoore wrote: »

That's bull man, I'm 23 and I'm from St. Louis myself with an AAS and I just completed my CCNA not to long ago about to work on my CCNP. I got kind of lucky but guess what, a WEEK after I obtained my CCNA I got a entry level network technician job working in down town STL now making 35k. The VP of network operations at our NOC here has his CCIE and I"m betting he's making 6 figures. If you view some of my previous posts you'll see that I was actually making about 60k a year at one point but I hated the type of IT stuff I was doing (opening support tickets basically). I did a lot of soul searching and thought about what I liked the most in IT and just went for it.

I'm basically starting over again but I'm A LOT happier then I ever was at my last job. I will say that it's hard to break into the telecom network arena and I consider my self very lucky. But it's def. possible especially if you set yourself apart with certifications, I'm sure that's the only thing that pushed me over the edge into obtaining this job. Once you get your CCNA shut me a PM, I know this company has been growing rapidly and there may be an open position by time you obtain your cert so I can put in a word for ya! I will say that I would get a BA if at all possible from any ACCREDITED school. I made the same mistake by trying to rush through school, I would love to have that Bachelors title but I know I'll be fine with or without it

hey, i sent you an email. my brother is looking for a beginner IT position like you mentioned. Check out your mail when you get a chance. thanks!

GT-Rob

Im going to throw in my $0.02, which is worth about $0.019 american these days

Some people, and I mean this with no offense, get a little "snobby" when it comes to this. I find its people who do have a degree, who tend to say you are not going to go anywhere without one. Maybe deep down they regret their student loan, or its a case of denial, but everyone likes to support their own life choices.

Really though unless someone has gone through their career on one path, then went back in time and did it taking another path, they really can't say for certain whats the best.

I personally didn't goto post-secondary and feel the 4 years I spent gaining real world experience, and spending tuition money on labs and certs, has put me far ahead of where I would be today had I spent 4 years of my time in school. I think there are a lot of variables apart from just school in that, but I have yet to meet someone from my highschool who is farther along in their career.

Sure there have been jobs I have been turned away from for not having a degree, but theres also lots of jobs recent grads have been turned away from for not having any experience.

Again, take individual's opinions (including mine), with a grain of salt, as each person has only lived 1 life and cannot tell you how yours will play out.

networker050184

ColbyNA wrote: »

Do you work in NY or CA? $91k for a level 2 position is very high.

You're telling me. I'd gladly move to the NOC for $90k. I doubt our NOC guys even make $50k. Price of living is low as hell here though in SC as you know.

MeanDrunkR2D2

Well, I know that you have had conflicting advice on this subject.

I like others, would not put this as a "Certs vs BS" contest as everyone here could go round and round forever arguing the benefits on both parts.

Go with a combination. Get your AAS, get your Cisco certs and get some experience. But while you are getting that experience, take a few classes here and there to work towards your BS. Don't undervalue that degree and make it seem unneccesary. I have a friend who has no current certification, but just has his AAS and he works for a large employer in the KC area making just barely under 6 figures doing Telecom-Networking. The only thing holding him back right now and what he's working on is his BS. He has the high level knowledge and experience, but that piece of paper makes the world of difference.

So go ahead and get what you need to get your foot in the door right now. But don't ever stop studying and improving your knowledge whether it be getting your BS or more Certs. Just keep on growing your mind and you'll end up better in the long run.

Myself, I put off Certs after I got my BS in CIS (Yes, I didn't like the programming, but I am far more well rounded by knowing how it works) and recently have begun to acquire them. If you don't develop and learn, the IT world will leave you behind. By having both my BS and starting to get Certs, I'm getting alot of interview requests while I do help desk for a slave driving company... Like the rest here, I want to be paid fairly, treated like a human, and love my work.

shodown

ColbyNA wrote: »

Do you work in NY or CA? $91k for a level 2 position is very high.

No I do not. I work in DC

I do R/S, CCM, and a bunch of other things. My last job in Minneapolis also paid that much for Tier 2. I was making 65K+OT as a level 1 VOIP. I didn't make it to tier 2 there, but it depends on what type of NOC it is. If you are just monitoring yeah that can be high, but if you are making changes to the networking, doing stuff with BGP, Call managers, ASA's, and deploying all over the city to different sites and supporting several different customers networks and such I think that's about right. 1 last thing is I work the undesirable shift. So the deal is always sweetened when you pick up the mid.

ColbyG

DC salaries and Cost of Living are very high as well, so it makes more sense.

Aldur

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

I partly agree with your friend. When it comes to what it takes to get a job, I would say the ranking goes like this:

1. Experience
2. Bachelor's degree
3. Certification

In that order. It's what I've found to be true from pounding the pavement looking for work the last three years.

Maybe for mid to entry level certs. I would venture to say that the high level lab based certs, JNCIE/CCIE, are more respected then a bachelors degree.

I have a BS degree in CS and I have to say that I have learned much more from self study and work experience. Could I have gone as far without the BS degree? Maybe. To me it all boils down to one more thing to make you more valuable then the next guy. I've seen people do well without a BS degree but then I've also seen people miss out on new jobs and promotions because the other guy had a BS.

It's just one more way to future proof your career.

MoInSTL

stlsmoore and Shiz Stain, add me to the list of St. Louisans.

thenjduke

Listen I been in the IT Industry 17 years. I never finish my B.S. in Computer Science and learn alot of programming. I got to admit my computer programming courses have help me script alot as a Network / System Administrator but being a network engineer and working towards my B.S. in Networking and Telecommunications and getting CCNA I have not done much scripting except copy and paste. I have moved up in my company and I have not done any system administration for almost a year now. Just ignore what this guy has said. He is set in his specializing field but there is a huge demand for programmers.