CCNA with no degree and no experience

20x6

Once I get my CCNA how much should I expect to make with no degree or experience? I mean i know it can vary but whats the salary range I should expect?

Essendon

This is akin to asking "Hey, whats the weather going to 22 days from today?"

Nah, that was a smartass answer. A CCNA might get you noticed from the stack from resumes and get you an interview but I dont think you'd get much more with a CCNA and zero experience. As for a figureamount , I cant really give you one.

mikej412

20x6 wrote: »

whats the salary range I should expect?

The range could be from 0 to 80K

0 if you can't find anyone to hire you.

And up to 80k if you have mad skills, an impressive resume, great references and work ethic, tremendous ability to learn new things, fantastic people skills, have good networking skills and connections, and you get lucky or a relative/friend hires you.

20x6

Whats the median range though? Does anyone know? Im guessing (see: hoping) its around 40k...but i might be dreaming, i dont know.

Essendon

Dude, just like Mike said, there isnt a range for such a thing. You could start at $20000 or at $50000 if the stars lined up just right.

There's no right answer for such a question.

thomas130

since you got no expierence you need probably start off as junior/trainee so i would'nt expect to be making great amount of money CCNA or not

tpatt100

I made 40K at my second IT job after working for a major defense contractor for a few years, I completed my bachelors, I had my MCSE, MCSA, CCNA, A+, CCA.

not trying to dampen your hopes or anything

networker050184

Certifications and experience will get you a good pay check. Certifications and zero experience is about the same as zero certifications and zero experience. It sucks for people first starting out, but companies usually don't want you learning on their live network. Thats just the way it is.

shodown

You can find a NOC where you can do monitoring. NOC's vary from answering the phone, to damn near everything a network engineer does for less pay

Firemarshalbill.com

Not sure where you live but up here in the Northeast USA which usually pays very well you may be able to start out with $15 to $20 hr. You will have to prove yourself, do a good job, eager to learn etc before you could move up. Remember IT people need three things - Experience, Degrees, certifications

Good luck

Kaminsky

20x6 wrote: »

Once I get my CCNA how much should I expect to make with no degree or experience? I mean i know it can vary but whats the salary range I should expect?

Not having a degree is not a problem in this industry ... No Experience though will be like a seemingly impenatrable wall at the time ....

However, keep perservering and looking and applying and you will get a break sooner or later. We all had to struggle through this "unproven" process at some point (even with a degree) unless you go to work for a relative or something. From that point on, no matter what door opened, two years of bums on seat experience (no matter what you have to put up with) and from then on and you are off and running.


If you are expecting an IT certification to start you off on loadsa money, think again. That boat sailed with the dot.com era and is long since gone. Managers & recruitment specialists now know how to milk any wannabe IT pro very well. If you wanna get in, you just got to suck it up unfortunately. Good thing is, 15 years down the line, you have them throwing jobs at your (so they can make a percentage of course) and you are the one in the driving seat.

This could be said of trying to crack your way into any industry I would think. Not just IT. "Not Proven" is a real bugga to get past.

Daniel333

Geek Squad and help desk work pay can really vary., $10?

winky51

Try having 14 years experience hardware/software/networks, A+, MCSE, HP Core Server, HP Printers, IBM Laptop certs, having administered and deployed a master image with applications from scratch, alone, for a small 50 person business. It didnt count for crap.

"I'm sorry you dont have enough experience." Then you look at their current admins and they cant figure out why a user cant login to their PC.

Or when you go for a desktop support job

"Im sorry the other candidate had something you didnt." when in reality you know more than the lead desktop support person that interviewed you and he feels like you are a threat to his position or thinks you will leave with your advanced skill set as soon as you find a permanent spot somewhere else.

Dont kid yourself its not what you know, its who you know.

My best advise is get in somewhere big where their whole IT department is within the company itself and you are not part of an outsource group in a limited support scope. Then when you start at the bottom and get to know their systems you can work your way up. Dont make the mistake I did to keep moving jobs hoping to land somewhere better.

Hoping jobs you encounter the following...

#1 You get inept people interviewing you who havent a clue about what to ask you on an interview and stare at you with a blank face when you display your knowledge because their are not IT personel.

#2 they low ball you each and every new job more and more. I made the most money sticking to my 1st job, after that every other company low balled me that I moved to when I kept gaining knowledge. At one company after being a contractor for a year they lowballed me $13k when they offered perm and I knew more in that year than when I started.

#3 None of my certs did any good. "what no experience?"

#4 The market is flooded with people that have certifications and are clueless about how to do their jobs. And that sucks because it drives down the pay for all the good people. Some of these people get jobs because of who they know. I have a good number of stories about support people and network admins making $50-$60k and they dont even know how to install a hardware RAID on a server or replace a hard drive in a PC. Its pathetic.

#5 Dont count on recruiters to help you. They get hundreds of applicants and if they dont know you, they dont care.

#6 References dont mean crap. None of the places I worked EVER called any of my references even though it woulda made me.

Find a decent company, start at the bottom, work your way up. Im not kidding. Every job I actually got, with the exception of one, it was who I knew not what I knew because they knew I was good.

If I stuck with the 1st company I worked for Id be making over $50k a year now, 4 weeks vacation, and been working on networks instead or trying to figure out how I get an IT job now without looking overqualified for it.

Right now Im unemployed and luckily my old contacts moved to a new IT company and I have a good chance of starting over with them.

Get in somewhere at the bottom and sit your ass down for the long run. If you decide to swap jobs be sure at the old job you got to the position you want with 5 years experience and certs behind you. That would be the only way I would switch jobs.

yuriz43

shodown wrote: »

NOC's vary from answering the phone, ****to damn near everything a network engineer does for less pay*****

So god damn true this statement is.

msteinhilber

winky51 wrote: »

Try having 14 years experience hardware/software/networks, A+, MCSE, HP Core Server, HP Printers, IBM Laptop certs, having administered and deployed a master image with applications from scratch, alone, for a small 50 person business. It didnt count for crap.

I mean no offense by this, but for 14 years of experience I would hope to have more stunning projects to use as examples than deploying an image for a 50 person shop. If I were interviewing you, and that is what you came to the table with then I would have to question your motivation to obtain more responsibilities.

winky51 wrote: »

Dont kid yourself its not what you know, its who you know.

Who you know is very important, networking yourself is a key ability one should hone for just about any industry. But what you know isn't excluded. I like to think of it being who you know to really help great opportunities open up, but from there what you know begins to play a role in securing a position along with other things as well such as education, certifications, experience, and your soft skills - not particularly in that order.

winky51 wrote: »

My best advise is get in somewhere big where their whole IT department is within the company itself and you are not part of an outsource group in a limited support scope. Then when you start at the bottom and get to know their systems you can work your way up. Dont make the mistake I did to keep moving jobs hoping to land somewhere better.

I disagree, it seems like most people who succeed and make good money in this industry bounce between jobs.

winky51 wrote: »

#1 You get inept people interviewing you who havent a clue about what to ask you on an interview and stare at you with a blank face when you display your knowledge because their are not IT personel.

Regardless of the technical abilities of the interviewer, if you aren't able to get them to grasp that you really do know what you're talking about through examples of past projects as well as displaying confidence with your own abilities then you are doing something wrong. If you are going into these interviews with some of the negativity that you are displaying in your post, it doesn't surprise me that you aren't getting offers. Going into an interview with thoughts that the interviewer is just going to be another inept idiot is going to reflect itself - people can pick up on these attitudes and they do not help you land jobs.

winky51 wrote: »

#3 None of my certs did any good. "what no experience?"

If they were stating you had a lack of experience but yet you are stating you have 14 years experience at the beginning of your thread, then you are either marketing yourself all wrong (perhaps time to go over your resume and help make things stand out) or you have put in a lot of time over your career but haven't shown enough upward movement. Spending too long with the same responsibilities can hurt you even though it is X years of experience.

winky51 wrote: »

#4 The market is flooded with people that have certifications and are clueless about how to do their jobs. And that sucks because it drives down the pay for all the good people. Some of these people get jobs because of who they know. I have a good number of stories about support people and network admins making $50-$60k and they dont even know how to install a hardware RAID on a server or replace a hard drive in a PC. Its pathetic.

All of us have similar stories about people who somehow reached roles they are not qualified for. Nagging about it does no good for you except bring you to anger and frustration. These people get discovered eventually, it's best to just ignore it and suck it up and keep your head up and work hard and it will pay off eventually. Let it get you down and you'll stop caring as much and you'll run into a wall with regards to job opportunities and pay.

winky51 wrote: »

#5 Dont count on recruiters to help you. They get hundreds of applicants and if they dont know you, they dont care.

I agree on not counting on recruiters to help you, you should never count on anyone but yourself. But I strongly disagree with them not caring if they don't know you, that's just silly to think.

winky51 wrote: »

Find a decent company, start at the bottom, work your way up. Im not kidding. Every job I actually got, with the exception of one, it was who I knew not what I knew because they knew I was good.

If I stuck with the 1st company I worked for Id be making over $50k a year now, 4 weeks vacation, and been working on networks instead or trying to figure out how I get an IT job now without looking overqualified for it.

Very strongly disagree. If you have 14 years of experience and you stayed with the 1st company you worked for and were only making 50k a year and 4 weeks of vacation, then that would be quite the bad situation to be in. If you play your cards right AND maintain a positive attitude, you can easily make 50k a year after a year or two. I think this has to be the worst advice in this thread, sure there may be some places where it could pay off to stick around. But typically speaking, upward movement with more significant raises in pay between positions typically means switching employers.

Frankly, I think if the attitude you are expressing with your post (disgust of the industry in general and maybe a hint of a feeling of entitlement because of how long you have been working in the industry) then it's no surprise that you're struggling to find work. I don't at all mean it to be a jerk and bring you down, I just think it would do you some good to try and find a more positive way to express yourself. If you think negative, basic psychology says you are going to act negative.

ScottFern

Yeah I completely agree with you msteinhilber. There is something off about his advice in this thread. I completely tribute my successes within the IT industry with being able to jump from a crappy situation to a better one and then on to a net admin position.

My salary jumps from job #1 to job #2 was 18k and my salary jump from job #2 to job #3 was 13k.

If I were to stay at my first company I would probably be making a lot less than I am now, probably somewhere in the mid 40s and most of the incentives to stay never kicked in until year 5 so I wasn't missing much there.

Another secondary benefit of being able to jump to a better job is never staying long enough for them to lay me off. Now I realize at some point I am going to need to plant some roots, but for now as someone in his mid 20s I am perfectly content bouncing from job to job getting huge raises.

I finally feel like I am in a position I want to be in for a while and a position I need to learn lots before I can take that next step. Getting to this point was somewhat easy but I have a feeling climbing any further is going to require some intense development of my skills.

Hyper-Me

winky51 wrote: »

Try having 14 years experience hardware/software/networks, A+, MCSE, HP Core Server, HP Printers, IBM Laptop certs, having administered and deployed a master image with applications from scratch, alone, for a small 50 person business. It didnt count for crap.

I've got to agree with msteinhilber on this.

All those years and certs and the only decent project you headed up was making an image for 50 machines

I make an image for 50+ machines about every 2-3 days. Once I made images for a 650 machine rollout that had to be done in 5 days and I had 2 people helping me. We didnt even have an AD domain at that point so I had to make the image and custom script winPE discs to format and image the machines, from scratch. Now i administer a domain thats quite large.

Im probably also half or 2/3 your age. So if in 14 years that all you've done thats notable, I can see why you get passed up for jobs.

Not trying to be an ass, just stating the truth.

tpatt100

winky51 wrote: »

Try having 14 years experience hardware/software/networks, A+, MCSE, HP Core Server, HP Printers, IBM Laptop certs, having administered and deployed a master image with applications from scratch, alone, for a small 50 person business. It didnt count for crap.

I did a rollout with one other help desk admin pushing Ghost images across the network for a 13 floor Government facility, then following up pushing MSI packages with SMS. This was during my first 90 days in IT....

CChN

msteinhilber wrote: »

I mean no offense by this, but for 14 years of experience I would hope to have more stunning projects to use as examples than deploying an image for a 50 person shop. If I were interviewing you, and that is what you came to the table with then I would have to question your motivation to obtain more responsibilities.

If I had a pipe...

and needed to smoke it...

this would be in it!

apd123

winky51 wrote: »

Try having 14 years experience hardware/software/networks, A+, MCSE, HP Core Server, HP Printers, IBM Laptop certs, having administered and deployed a master image with applications from scratch, alone, for a small 50 person business. It didnt count for crap.

"I'm sorry you dont have enough experience." Then you look at their current admins and they cant figure out why a user cant login to their PC.

Or when you go for a desktop support job

"Im sorry the other candidate had something you didnt." when in reality you know more than the lead desktop support person that interviewed you and he feels like you are a threat to his position or thinks you will leave with your advanced skill set as soon as you find a permanent spot somewhere else.

Dont kid yourself its not what you know, its who you know.

My best advise is get in somewhere big where their whole IT department is within the company itself and you are not part of an outsource group in a limited support scope. Then when you start at the bottom and get to know their systems you can work your way up. Dont make the mistake I did to keep moving jobs hoping to land somewhere better.

Hoping jobs you encounter the following...

#1 You get inept people interviewing you who havent a clue about what to ask you on an interview and stare at you with a blank face when you display your knowledge because their are not IT personel.

#2 they low ball you each and every new job more and more. I made the most money sticking to my 1st job, after that every other company low balled me that I moved to when I kept gaining knowledge. At one company after being a contractor for a year they lowballed me $13k when they offered perm and I knew more in that year than when I started.

#3 None of my certs did any good. "what no experience?"

#4 The market is flooded with people that have certifications and are clueless about how to do their jobs. And that sucks because it drives down the pay for all the good people. Some of these people get jobs because of who they know. I have a good number of stories about support people and network admins making $50-$60k and they dont even know how to install a hardware RAID on a server or replace a hard drive in a PC. Its pathetic.

#5 Dont count on recruiters to help you. They get hundreds of applicants and if they dont know you, they dont care.

#6 References dont mean crap. None of the places I worked EVER called any of my references even though it woulda made me.

Find a decent company, start at the bottom, work your way up. Im not kidding. Every job I actually got, with the exception of one, it was who I knew not what I knew because they knew I was good.

If I stuck with the 1st company I worked for Id be making over $50k a year now, 4 weeks vacation, and been working on networks instead or trying to figure out how I get an IT job now without looking overqualified for it.

Right now Im unemployed and luckily my old contacts moved to a new IT company and I have a good chance of starting over with them.

Get in somewhere at the bottom and sit your ass down for the long run. If you decide to swap jobs be sure at the old job you got to the position you want with 5 years experience and certs behind you. That would be the only way I would switch jobs.

I am making 100% more after obtaining my CCIE and had zero issues finding a position recently. My anecdotal evidence contradicts your anecdotal evidence both examples are fairly useless.

RobertKaucher

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Not trying to be an ass, just stating the truth.

Hyper!!! You know I cannot resist it when you set yourself up for stuff like this....

You don't have to try. It comes naturally.

EDIT: Just so people know, Hyper-Me and I have a good relationship and we pickon each other. Well, I pick on him because it is a part of my personality to do that when I like someone. I believe Hyper-Me is a valuable contributor to the community and have told him so on a regular basis. I would have said the same thing to my best friend of 20 years had he left himself open in this way. I find it quite irionic that people are neg repping me and saying "Hyper-Me might be a jerk but don't bust his balls" when I am not of the opinion that he is a jerk at all. I passed the MS 680 and 686 exams principally because of his contributions. So I encourage you all to consider this when I am ripping on eMes for secretly being Dynamik's father, making "your mom" comments to Dynamik, and joking with various forum members about their spelling ability or inability (including myself).

winky51

My experience the last 14 years has been horrific, thats all I can say.

I went for jobs with my certs and experience and never ever got the opportunity to do what I was certed for, all I could do is practice at home.

1st position desktop support (got my certs here)... the IT company went bankrupt and got bought out. I had 2 options to go with the new company (which took a loss on the account and the employees suffered) OR job #2 that would adavance my career. I made the wrong decision.

2nd position... was the small business (I got because I knew someone) and I was fired because I wouldnt sign a rediculous non-compete that basically said if I worked with wireless tech anywhere the employer could sue me.

3rd position... after job #2 I had to get a desktop support position that the pay wasnt that good. (because I knew someone again) The market was bad in my area and the cost of living skyrocketed so I had to move out of state and we didnt want our kid growing up in that nasty city. Luckily my wife got an excellent job in another state.

4th position... after the move I made good money working for a big company as a contractor (recruiter). They offered me perm because they liked my work and lowballed me by 14k and wouldnt budge. I couldnt support my family for what they offered. I left with more skills than I came in and they liked my work so WTF?!

I took some time off to take care of my new son. Now Im recerting and looking again. There is a lot of work around here so Im going to stack the certs and get something.

Every job I went for all I got asked was "so you dont have experience doing X at a company?" and I dont lie, showboat, or exaggerate my experiences to get a job. I would tell them "no, but I have these certs, read these books, and did it at home". "Sorry we want real world experience" is what I got.

IF I stuck with the 1st job and swapped to the new company that took over the account I would have at least been a network admin by now. I let my morals get in the way because I didnt like what they did to get the account,, low ball it for a loss and take the loss on the employees. The employees didnt get raises for 4 years and some lost income. BUT if I sucked it up, I wasnt going to get a cut if I stayed, then I would have been in a good spot. I know this because I stil talk to some of the personel there and the ones that stayed are in much better positions now.

But it seems now everyone is now looking for certs which is good for me. I am going to get every damn cert I can. Im taking my 1st test this week.

Recently I applied for a very good job as manager/lead/local admin and it was the perfect position. I passed all the technical questions easy and did the final interview. Its been 1 month and the company hasnt even returned my calls to let me know whats going on. The regional manager was bad mouthing his project managers and employees in the interview. How professional is that? And this is a big IT company.

I recently interviewed a 2nd contract job. It was a door to get into a major corporation and advance up and I let them know my intentions. I flew through the techinical part of the interview being quite verbose and answered questions in extreme technical detail demonstrating I knew my **** well. I didnt get because someone else had something I didnt. Im looking at my resume and scratching my head at what more I could have possibly needed for this position? Only thing I could think of is that they felt I was overqualified and possibly threatening to their lead person that interviewed me. Maybe they thought I would left when I found something better.

So after those experiences, yea Im bitter and Im pessimistic.

AlexMR

It's a tough economy and a kind of cruel job market. We need to make peace with that idea and work accordingly. After say 15 years in the field, if you want to be in the top, I think you should have a bachelor's, a master's, one or two high level certs or more and with that kind of work I am sure a great experience because of great, increasing responsibilities is due.

Both my grandfathers had great opportunities early in their lives and all over only because they were bilingual. Now, if you dont speak english in a non english speaking country, you are in serious trouble and chances are you are not going to make it to the top, or would be considered a major handicap.

All I am saying is that in this world we are living, if you dont try continually to move forward and a a rapid pace, you will be left behind. If you have been in the job market for more than 10 years and still dont have a bachelor's, you are making things harder for yourself. Things are just crazy and as Siciliano says in this book Amazon.com: Finance for Non-Financial Managers (Briefcase Books Series) (9780071413770): Gene Siciliano: Books , "every generation says things are harder than they used to be, and they are all right". Things are just insane. We need to keep raising the bar or we will be left behind. Tough as life.

[Deleted User]

I've been doing IT-related work for the past 2 years with my CCNA and it has all been desktop support. I think the CCNA will get your resume looked at but I doubt someone is going to let you loose on their network with little experience.

moonlight08

technique wrote: »

If you want to increase your earning potential, why don’t you enrol into a computer degree? With employers looking to hire IT professionals who have a college degree, I believe the playing field could be rather rough for someone with no experience and no college degree. Computer networking degrees will help you increase not just your earning potential, but also your chances of employment. California College San Diego offers computer technology and networking degree with a comprehensive curriculum, which will help you keep pace with advances in this field.

How is this any different from the OP having a cert and no experience?

Getting back to the original question, since this thread seems to have derailed heavily, if I were the person doing the interviewing, I'd look at your resume and see how it matches to the job we've posted. Let's say we need a network admin. I see your resume, CCNA, no experience...anything else? If that's it, I'm going to toss it. You need to put something else on there.

So let's assume something else is on there...maybe some volunteer work or something...ANYTHING...that comes close to demonstrating you can do what you're applying for. Assuming that gets my attention I'll call you up for a phone interview and make sure you have at least some communication skills.

But I'm not going to lie to you either. That no experience thing is a real setback but hasn't necessarily doomed you. There are still some very bright and knowledgeable people out there. If I call you in for a face to face interview, you better believe I will grill you on your technical capabilities with a lot of tech questions related to the job you've applied for.

I know...there are always plenty of idiots out there who give interviews and they don't even know how to properly interview a technical candidate. I hate those people just as much as others here have mentioned but I take pride in the fact that I'm not one of them.

Bl8ckr0uter

I am in a slightly different boat but in the same body of water.


I cant say how much you will make but I can say that my CCNA and CCNA:S (along with my comptias) and a few years of exp (my 3rd year of IT was in Feb) and I can say that it has been somewhat difficult. I don't have a whole lot of networking experience so it has been difficult to find a network engineering jobs, even a jr network engineering job. I also have limited Windows exp (I supported Windows in my desktop support jobs but not much else) so the sys admin jobs have been difficult to find. My suggestion for you is to broaden you certs a little bit (pick up a MCP/MCSA ) and then go from there. You are either going to have to get a lucky break or try to generalize a bit and then find a job with some network responsibilities.

sambuca69

I don't agree with this, but...

I've known people that have flat out lied, and said any BS the could, to get into a position. If you interview with enough people, eventually you get through.

Now, my friend (yes, a friend and not me ) only lasted about 3 months here and got canned. What did he do? Put that down as a short term consulting gig, and moved onto the next job. Did same as before, lied through his teeth, but this time had the 3 month "job" on his resume... got hired, lasted about 6 months at the next job. Each time he moved on, he had more "experience" to put down on his resume.

He rinsed and repeated this about 4 times... he now makes more than me, and I truly do not know what the hell he really knows or doesn't, but the guy has a good job now and been in IT for around 8 years now.

Weird how the world works, aint it?

Ashenwelt

You need to remember that, traditionally, certs are added to experience. A new CCNA with no experience will rarely get a chance to actually work on a network. Although just as an FYI, it isn’t uncommon for CCNA’s not to be allowed to actually work on a network at all.

It all is going to depend on where someone finally takes a chance on you.

lilmansdad

how much, if any, does classroom experience count? They have a nice program at the local CC, with all the routers/switches, etc.. you need. But it is still all classroom experience.

YFZblu

Epic thread bump.

For what it's worth: I built my own home lab and plan on taking in infrastructure visios, copies of my configs, etc when I go for my first interview after completing CCNA. Anything to illustrate your determination is great - Knowing your weaknesses and how to improve them is something else you'll want to bring to that interview.

lilmansdad

If you do a google search for ccna no experience it is the first hit.


And I would think a year of hands on classroom experience should count for something...