Straight to CCIE??

jsong1245

I'm currently looking for a new career. I'm a recent medically retired police officer. I do have some background in computers. I graduated college with a degree in computer science, so I do have a limited technical background. A friend of mine who has several Cisco Certifications (CCNP and CCSP, however no CCIE) recommended that I pursue a CCIE certification. He advised me to take the CCNA just to get the basic foundation and study straight for the CCIE R&S. He claimed that there was no need to take the CCNP. He told me one of his friends studied for the CCIE for about 18 months and passed it without taking the CCNP. His friend was in the entertainment industry and had no background in networking.

I personally wanted to take the CCNA - CCNP - CCIE R&S route, but my friend kept insisting there was no need. He basically said the intermediate stuff alone will not help me pass the CCIE Lab portion.

I know this topic was brought up back in 2006, but I would like to hear some new feedback if anybody in this forum (or knows someone) attained a CCIE without passing the intermediate certifications so I can make an informed decision about my career.

Thanks.

Turgon

jsong1245 wrote: »

I'm currently looking for a new career. I'm a recent medically retired police officer. I do have some background in computers. I graduated college with a degree in computer science, so I do have a limited technical background. A friend of mine who has several Cisco Certifications (CCNP and CCSP, however no CCIE) recommended that I pursue a CCIE certification. He advised me to take the CCNA just to get the basic foundation and study straight for the CCIE R&S. He claimed that there was no need to take the CCNP. He told me one of his friends studied for the CCIE for about 18 months and passed it without taking the CCNP. His friend was in the entertainment industry and had no background in networking.

I personally wanted to take the CCNA - CCNP - CCIE R&S route, but my friend kept insisting there was no need. He basically said the intermediate stuff alone will not help me pass the CCIE Lab portion.

I know this topic was brought up back in 2006, but I would like to hear some new feedback if anybody in this forum (or knows someone) attained a CCIE without passing the intermediate certifications so I can make an informed decision about my career.

Thanks.

Why not? Before the CCNA/CCNP came out people studied straight for the CCIE and still do.
I recommend you do the CCNA first though, then head on to CCIE if you are up to the challenge. Expect to be working hard everyday for at least the next year straight if this is your intention though as you have to put a lot of hard miles in. A very small percentage of CCIE candidates make it through so the NA and NP certifications provide most people with an achievable objective. What you would learn in the CCNP would be a good foundation if you choose to do it.

GT-Rob

A few people come up with this idea, but I have yet to actually see someone successful. Theres always the "friend of a friend" story, but anyway...


Once you pass the CCNA, you will understand better. On paper it makes no sense to even do CCNA or CCNP, since CCIE is the 'best', and any employer really wouldn't care much if you had your CCNA at that point. But people have a hard enough time getting through the CCNA alone, which is about 1/50th of the way there.


What do you plan to do in the meantime while you study for all of this? A CCIE without any experience is pretty well useless. Its not like a medical degree where you start practicing right out of school. A network engineer has the most demanding IT job in a company IMO, and a large bank/multi billion dollar company isn't going to hand over the keys to someone who "read some books and passed a lab".

CChN

GT-Rob wrote: »

A network engineer has the most demanding IT job in a company IMO

Agreed. But with the flooded market we don't get paid nearly what we should.

laidbackfreak

CChN wrote: »

Agreed. But with the flooded market we don't get paid nearly what we should.

but everyone knows we dont do it for the money..... its for the chicks lol

SysAdmin4066

The CCNP has been very useful in giving me some of the more advanced structure before moving ahead to the CCIE. It helped to solidify some of the more advanced things I hadnt used in a while. I see it as I am studying for the CCIE by way of the CCNP. Once I'm done with my last exam for the NP, i'll close the gaps and study exclusively for the IE, hopefully starting in Feb.

I have 10 years of experience in IT and that's about standard for the average senior level network/systems guys I've been around. You'll find a hard time, CCIE or not, finding a senior level position with 0 experience. And while we are paid quite well compared to other professions (my wife is currently in law school, looking at 100k + school costs and possibly a 70k job when she grads and passes the bar) as far as education to pay ratio, we require a lot of hands on. As Rob says, companies are trusting the keys to the kingdom to you, quite litterally. A bad admin can cripple a company. Google san francisco city network admin if you dont believe me. He litterally held the city hostage via passwords no one else knew lol.

IMO, the CCNA - CCNP - CCIE is a logical progression and will help you move in a logical career progression. The CCNA will help you to get your foot in the door for entry level positions so that you can start getting the experience you'll need to be a true IE. Its true NP isnt neccessary, but it is helpful. It has been for me at least...

GT-Rob

laidbackfreak wrote: »

but everyone knows we dont do it for the money..... its for the chicks lol

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

Mrock4

As others have said, it is possible, but I advise to go through the logical cert path (CCNA > CCNP > CCIE), which is also (as said above) a logical career progression. I've always looked at it like this- "If I study for 1 1/2 yrs on the CCIE, and fail...then apply for a job, what do I have to show for my work?"..taking the CCNA, and CCNP enroute mean you have something in the meanwhile that shows you're progressing, and also provide a clear path to your objective.

..not to mention, you could take the CCNA, and decide you'd rather go work on servers, or security, etc. You could always study the CCNA/CCNP material with the goal of the CCIE. It doesn't mean you're de-railing for another cert IMO..it's just a natural progression.

My personal take on the subject is that the only people who should go straight to the CCIE are the ones with several years experience already, who know they have a viable shot at it without 2 years of prep..anyone else has no reason to not want to learn the CCNA/CCNP subjects..you'll be learning that stuff anyways in your journey to the CCIE, but if you skip the CCNA/CCNP, you won't have the certs to show for the knowledge you've gained anyways.

Just my $.02. Best of luck to you in whatever you do. Thanks for your service!

veritas_libertas

GT-Rob wrote: »

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

You obviously haven't seen White Collar...

White Collar TV Show Video -White Collar Full Episodes

TheShadow

GT-Rob wrote: »

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

Say hello to my little friend!

sides14

How about get the CCNA and then get an entry level job? You might find that you don't like the networking industry (especially since you have a computer science degree and became a police office).

yuriz43

Get the CCNA, CCNP first. They are both relevant to the CCIE and will help you build important fundamental knowledge. ( especially the CCNA ).I think the CCNP serves as a great intermediate goal in studying for the CCIE.

In the meantime, try and get a entry level job which is at least remotely networking related. Even if you're dealing with desktops or servers, some of that work will require networking knowledge. It's important to have some relevant experience on your resume, even with a CCIE. Since you're a former police officer I would look into government IT related jobs, this is probably an area which may give you an edge.


best of luck!

slinuxuzer

I haven't even heard anyone mention the financial reasons for not going straight to CCIE, I dont know what your financial situation is, but consider this.

By my estimate it could easily cost 15k or more to achieve the CCIE, I am no cisco expert, but I have considered pursuing the CCIE track (eventually, after CCNA CCNP) and if I remember correctly the exam alone is 1,250 dollars and I believe I read that the average number of attempts is 3.5 to 4.5. Very, VERY, few pass the first one.

Not to mention the expenses that lead up to getting to this point.

Lab books, will be a considerable expense

Equipment theres a few to five thousand give or take

Rack time

Alot of people need the week or two week bootcamps, these usually run 3k a week or so, not to mention travel and hotel, theres another 1k a week.

Written exam fee, I believe is 300 bucks or so.

travel to the lab exam site.

If your not working anywhere, it would be very bad to get half way through this process and find out you made a mistake, this could be a big financial mistake with no ROI at the end of the rainbow.

My advice, get CCNA and then get an entry level job, preferably at a Cisco partner, who will help with educational expenses and reward your future certification achievements. This will be the much less taxing way to go, stress and money wise.

jsong1245

Hey guys....just wanted to thank you all for the feedback. It's good to hear all your opinions. After reading all the replies, I am leaning towards the logical progression of CCNA - CCNP - CCIE. Thanks again for the input.

SephStorm

veritas_libertas wrote: »

You obviously haven't seen White Collar...

White Collar TV Show Video -White Collar Full Episodes

I love white collar. I knew it was him! I knew it! The question is what and why?

Forsaken_GA

GT-Rob wrote: »

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

SPLITREASON.COM :: Money Power Woman t-shirt

chrisone

good choice in perusing the CCNA > CCNP > CCIE Path. I believe the CCNP is like studying for the CCIE but in 4 separate exams and with extra content. If you go straight to the CCIE, you still study for more than a year and in the end if you fail the CCIE written or just give up, you wont have nothing to show for it. At least after a year of studying for a CCNP you have a certification to show for it and respectable credibility added to your name resume. Plus you will have most of the knowledge covered on the CCIE exam and you would already be more than familiar with the CCIE material due to your hard work on the CCNP. Good Journey!

ccie15672

I skipped the CCNP. But I had 14 years of experience and found myself bored out of my skull reading the CCNP books.

Its killing me right now preparing for the JNCIP. BOOOOORRRRRIIIINNNGGGGG. But I have to do it to get to the JNCIE-M.

netteaser

GT-Rob wrote: »

A few people come up with this idea, but I have yet to actually see someone successful. Theres always the "friend of a friend" story, but anyway...


Once you pass the CCNA, you will understand better. On paper it makes no sense to even do CCNA or CCNP, since CCIE is the 'best', and any employer really wouldn't care much if you had your CCNA at that point. But people have a hard enough time getting through the CCNA alone, which is about 1/50th of the way there.


What do you plan to do in the meantime while you study for all of this? A CCIE without any experience is pretty well useless. Its not like a medical degree where you start practicing right out of school. A network engineer has the most demanding IT job in a company IMO, and a large bank/multi billion dollar company isn't going to hand over the keys to someone who "read some books and passed a lab".

I have a co-worker who did this, he took the CCNA and studied for the CCNP exams but never went down to take the exams his reasoning was a waste of money just to go down and take individual exams when he could save up and take the CCIE

Turgon

netteaser wrote: »

I have a co-worker who did this, he took the CCNA and studied for the CCNP exams but never went down to take the exams his reasoning was a waste of money just to go down and take individual exams when he could save up and take the CCIE

It's a flawed approach. Get the CCNA by all means but then definitely push the boat out to get in with a company and get some real world networking exposure and experience. The gold rush is over, if a partner needs CCIEs to make gold status they can go for a cheap overseas hire with a CCIE and marginal experience to do that. For those in the US/UK experience is what you need to land the FTE. The certs will come in time.

rchase

GT-Rob wrote: »

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

DJ Quik - Hand in Hand - YouTube

Just to clarify on this post, its power first, then the money, etc... see above

dontstop

Clearly you guys have it all wrong.

dontstop

Lets say you pass the CCNA and CCIE:R&S in less than 12-18 months, Not only will this venture be a full time effort (no work experience in that time) you will have landed a certification that's way too big for your boots (no offense, but that would be true for anyone). It's like a constable being promoted to a Chief inspector in 2 years, I'm not going to doubt that someone can learn this quickly but I will doubt your not going to be seasoned well enough (have seen enough situations under different circumstances) to sit in that chair when the pressure turns on.

The best way to understand it, as said... is from the perspective of the company your working for. When they have two comparable CCIE's (knowledge wise) selected for employment they are more interested in hiring the guy with the deeper scars. By that I mean, the guy who has more war stories, more examples of what he did when X went up the ****, how he dealt with project Y, with solution/implementation of Z and how he dealt with customer expectations/requests and experiences ab & c. (fundamentally I.T. doesn't exist in a vacuum, Not only do you need to master the Technology, but you also need to master all the soft mooshy stuff called the "Business")

From my experience as a Linux Administrator, Most of what I do is easy. Building machines, managing servers anyone can do. Working under pressure, knowing how to deal with users, customers and work mates and your boss is the kicker (also understanding what is good for the business/org and not just what tickles your fancy or is cool) That can only come with time in the seat and experience.

As the saying goes, the journey is the reward. If tomorrow you gained all the knowledge of the CCIE + passed the exams, you would still be undesirable to hire. No company could hire someone without proven track record, a past history of experiences, proven implementations and strong references. At the level of CCIE, I would assume your in a special league of your own. More of your work will come from word of your work than your qualification itself, Which justifies getting the experience first as nothing will tarnish your CCIE more than bad word of mouth from mistakes caused by lack of experience.

Also, you will find one last gate keeper called HR/Recruiters who will be given a boiler plate requirements list something along on the lines of "Must have 5 years of industry experience or in a senior position (CCIE like) must have 10-15 years of experience" in the case you don't have this, your resume/CV will be moved to the bit bucket without second thought.

Do what you feel is right, which is the complete track of CCNA>CCNP>CCIE.

Study Hard mate!

broli720

I say if you can do it then do it. If you have no experience getting a CCIE will not hurt you as long as you know that you will probably have to prove yourself in an entry level networking position first. I just don't understand the stigma associated with going for it. If you're that good with the material then you're that good. Some kids don't need college, some kids graduate med school at 22. It's different for anyone and kudos to those that try to obtain it.

darkerz

Genuine CCNA and CCNP backed knowledge and applied lab + real world experience can land you near to beginning 6-figures after 3-5 years of solid experience. Someone with no networking background and a CCIE probably has no idea what the hell they are doing. I use CCNA-level knowledge daily, with very little CCNP (except for our VSS and DC operations) and make near 6 figures, I'd imagine it's the same in most places. The CCIE's I have seen are consultants or contractors who's parent companies make an effort to bootcamp them to sell services at a higher premium.

rchase

dontstop wrote: »

Clearly you guys have it all wrong.

lol forreal

rchase

To summarize,

sides14

I think everyone is looking strictly at the technical aspects. Remember....CCIE equals elevated Cisco Partner status. There would be a company out there that would be willing to train someone on the job while using their number. It won't be the big CCIE dollars, but it will still be good money none the less.