Major changes to Western Governors University (WGU) -- IT Degrees

I just got off the phone with my enrollment counselor and received some exciting news (at least to me.) Cisco and MCITP are going to be added to degree options.

CCNA: Security for the Security degree (i.e. CCNA --> CCNA:S)
MCITP:EA for the Network Design and Management

I realize many won't care but I found it interesting...

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kalebksp

knwminus wrote: »

It is the little time that I am worried about...

Really? I'm not trying to convince you to enroll at WGU, but you wouldn't spend 30 minutes to pass a class because you don't like the certification you'll get for doing it? Most college class require a lot more effort than that and you get nothing for finishing an individual class.

I must be missing your point because that sounds completely ridiculous to me.

Bl8ckr0uter

kalebksp wrote: »

Really? I'm not trying to convince you to enroll at WGU, but you wouldn't spend 30 minutes to pass a class because you don't like the certification you'll get for doing it? Most college class require a lot more effort than that and you get nothing for finishing an individual class.

I must be missing your point because that sounds completely ridiculous to me.

Maybe I have been misinformed about the CIW certs. I looked them up, perhaps I thought they were more of an undertaking than they are.

Forsaken_GA

I don't think that's the point that kaleb is trying to make.

The point is that WGU is an accredited university. Means that degree is good enough for government and non-profit work at the very least. They charge very reasonable rates, and their final exams are industry certifications. If I go to a brick and mortar and pass my finals, all I get is credit. With WGU, you get credit and an industry cert, even if it is just resume filler. And since some of those exams are easy as hell, and you get multiple vouchers included as part of your tuition, it ends up being a pretty good deal.

I intend to enroll at WGU as soon as it's practically feasible. I have too much on my plate right now to juggle a degree program into the mix (not to mention I don't have the cash, because I'm certainly not going to take a student loan), but it seems to me like it's the best deal out there. It'll also depend on how much credit transfers from my associates and what exemptions I can get for my current certs.

But if it ended up like I'd need to go take something stupid like Network+ to get a class credit, I'd schedule the exam for the following day as soon as I had access to the vouchers and I'd go take it without studying for it because being able to test out of certain aspects of a college program based on my experience and body of knowledge is just too good to pass up, and it'd let me move on and focus my efforts on something that I didn't know.

down77

knwminus, I understand how you feel!!!! But having gone through the CIW courses consider it a refresher and possibly an alternative viewpoint of Web Development. The CIW exams are included as part of a competency for their respective area. The Technology Board of Advisers, which include companies such as Dell, Google, HP and Microsoft, felt for some reason that this met the need.

I feel every one of us who attends a university, "Brick and Mortar" or distance education, will take classes from time to time that we may not fully need in our profession. For example at the University of Florida I took Physics I with Calculus and have not used it since. What matters is that overall YOU are satisfied with the outcome and that the university/degree compliments your career goals.

On a side note, I do have to admit the attached "graphic" does look well hanging on my wall. This snap was the day after xmas... my wife decided to get it framed for me as one of the gifts (I was going to leave it in the envelope as I dont typically hang certs/degrees).

WGU.JPG

msteinhilber

knwminus wrote: »

It is the little time that I am worried about...

It's part of the curriculum for the B.S. program at WGU and very similar content is part of the curriculum at many other schools. You're going to run into courses and assignments through your tenure at just about any school as well as tasks in the professional world that you might think are a waste of time. It's a part of life, and most people would be excited to know they can move through it at the pace they desire (such as at WGU) than waste the little time you have already wasted nagging about it here

veritas_libertas

msteinhilber wrote: »

It's part of the curriculum for the B.S. program at WGU and very similar content is part of the curriculum at many other schools. You're going to run into courses and assignments through your tenure at just about any school as well as tasks in the professional world that you might think are a waste of time. It's a part of life, and most people would be excited to know they can move through it at the pace they desire (such as at WGU) than waste the little time you have already wasted nagging about it here

My AAS in Computer Networking Technology involved a lot of classes that I thought were useless. We had two computer repair classes, entry and advanced, that I already knew most of the content before I walked in. I also had two classes that, unless I want to become Social Engineer was probably a waste of money: Psychology and Sociology.

Bl8ckr0uter

msteinhilber wrote: »

It's part of the curriculum for the B.S. program at WGU and very similar content is part of the curriculum at many other schools. You're going to run into courses and assignments through your tenure at just about any school as well as tasks in the professional world that you might think are a waste of time. It's a part of life, and most people would be excited to know they can move through it at the pace they desire (such as at WGU) than waste the little time you have already wasted nagging about it here

Fair enough and well played sir. IDK maybe its just me but all my certs mean something to me (yes all 3 of them). I remember the hours of break fix stuff I did for my A+, the hours of remembering cable types and terminators for the N+ and the hours remembering configs, doing configs, and then being configs for the CCNA. I just feel like I don't want to do a cert if the struggle isn't there, if I don't have to work and claw and fight and bleed for it. I feel like the struggle is where the knowledge comes from (must resist saying without struggle there is no progress, no jesse no). Maybe I view them (certs) in a different light than most but I feel like those are the products of my labor and I only want to obtain/put forth the best. But I won't say anything more about it because at the end of the day, either I will go to the school and fall in line or I just won't go.

apena7

Wow, if you are going to let a few easy courses keep you from getting a degree, then good luck explaining that at your next job interview...

But seriously, all college undergradute programs have a few easy courses sprinkled throughout the curriculum. The beauty of WGU is that you can test out of the class as soon as you feel you are ready, as opposed to sitting in a dreadfully boring brick-and-mortar classroom for a whole semester.

I think we are just concerned because the reasons you have given us aren't that strong. Take a look at the MCSEs on this board -- I bet most of them considered the 70-620 Vista exam as easy and didn't require much effort on their part. Did they learn some things about Vista that could help them down the road? Of course. But since they didn't sweat blood preparing for that exam, does that mean that the entire MCSE program was a waste of their time? Certainly not.

I'm relatively new to IT and, at the moment, the benefits of obtaining a degree far outweigh what any entry-level certs I could obtain on my own. I think you need to look at the bigger picture -- instead of CIW certs, you should be looking at the degree.

petedude

veritas_libertas wrote: »

. . .I also had two classes that, unless I want to become Social Engineer was probably a waste of money: Psychology and Sociology.

Or unless you eventually aspire to IT management.

veritas_libertas

petedude wrote: »

Or unless you eventually aspire to IT management.

You mean how to manipulate your underlings?

Bl8ckr0uter

apena7 wrote: »

Wow, if you are going to let a few easy courses keep you from getting a degree, then good luck explaining that at your next job interview...

I wouldn't let easy classes keep me from getting a degree ( I am enrolled in 2 degree programs as we speak and I have had to do classes such as intro to MS word and excel). I am going to pick and choose where I want to matriculate from (especially at the BS/MS level) and make sure that they have a program I believe in, a program that I feel I will benefit from and a school with a good rep (This is not a stab at WGU at all because they have a good rep).

apena7 wrote: »

But seriously, all college undergradute programs have a few easy courses sprinkled throughout the curriculum. The beauty of WGU is that you can test out of the class as soon as you feel you are ready, as opposed to sitting in a dreadfully boring brick-and-mortar classroom for a whole semester.

Most schools that I know of allow you to test out of classes...

tpatt100

msteinhilber wrote: »

I'm going to have to check into any possible changes with the Master's program. I was slated to start January, however my former school has decided it wasn't yet done causing trouble for me and botched up my transcripts and is being fairly uncooperative so my start date had to be delayed to February at the earliest now assuming I get the problems worked out with the place I earned my Bachelor's.

I'm mostly hoping for them to finalize and meet the NSA Information Assurance Certification. I think they incorporate a decent number of certifications that work well with the curriculum for their Master's program perhaps with the exception of just one (Network+) which I feel is partly out of line with the program - I would consider that more of a foundation level knowledge one should already have entering the program.

Yeah the certs for the Masters program has me going "meh". I am starting in a couple of months once I get all my transcripts completed.

Turgon

I dont know whether it's because many people chipping in on here are finishing degrees while holding down jobs but there does seem to be a preoccupation with the bottom line on degrees in general. This could be in terms of time to accomplish, cost, or passing on modules thanks to prior experience or certifications. It's an education folks and even if a class may seem pointless to you it really depends on what you are measuring it against. You may be missing out on an opportunity to learn something of value beyond the bottom line. While at the time, some things seem pointless, at least you were there and there is always the possibilty it may help you in years to come, even if it means thinking about things in new ways. Just a thought, and while for sure I cant remember the specific details of many of my classes in the past, in hindsight Im glad I was at least there.. for most of it anyway. Some classes do suck though, but I suppose I didn't get it

veritas_libertas

Changes have been officially posted:

MCSE changed to MCITP:EA
Vista changed to Windows 7
70-298 changed to CCNA:Security

Piers

I'm looking into WGU as well, but a few months ago, I decided that since my employer will pay for my study materials as well as my tests, I'll finish my MCITP:SA before I enroll, which should reduce my course-load at WGU by as many as 5 courses ...

I also have to dig up or re-order my college transcript to try and eliminate some of the 1st year Gen Ed I've already done (albeit it was almost 20 yrs ago).. Am I remembering correctly though, that wgu will only accept 25% of that towards their degree?

dynamik

Wow, 298 to CCNA:S is quite a leap

Hyper-Me

dynamik wrote: »

Wow, 298 to CCNA:S is quite a leap

The security degree path needed something to boost it, as its like 20 credit units shorter than the network design degree.

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Changes have been officially posted:

MCSE changed to MCITP:EA
Vista changed to Windows 7
70-298 changed to CCNA:Security

Is there not an official list somewhere as to which certs are taken in place of others? Like a SQL 2008 exam being taken in place of CIW Database?

I know they do this, but cant find the list.

dynamik

Hyper-Me wrote: »

The security degree path needed something to boost it, as its like 20 credit units shorter than the network design degree.

Do you do the CCNA along the way? The CCNA is a prereq to CCNA:S, which is why I thought it was so much extra work.

Hyper-Me

dynamik wrote: »

Do you do the CCNA along the way? The CCNA is a prereq to CCNA:S, which is why I thought it was so much extra work.

No the CCNA wasnt required for either, but of course now you have to have it to get the CCNA:S.

The Network Design and Security paths had all the same certs except that ND required MCSE (now EA) and the security only requried 298 by itself, so there was signifigantly more work for the ND degree.

veritas_libertas

dynamik wrote: »

Do you do the CCNA along the way? The CCNA is a prereq to CCNA:S, which is why I thought it was so much extra work.

According to my adviser you do the CCNA through the CCNA:S. I won't be taking that path (degree plan), but that is what I have been told. We will have to wait till the degree PDF is out to know for sure.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

No the CCNA wasnt required for either, but of course now you have to have it to get the CCNA:S.

The Network Design and Security paths had all the same certs except that ND required MCSE (now EA) and the security only requried 298 by itself, so there was signifigantly more work for the ND degree.

There was post by the MCPWannabe on this. I will ask my adviser for more info.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/30564-western-governors-university-5.html#post279168

thomAZ

So since the CCNA will be included with this degree path have you heard if will it also be included in other degree paths like the Network Admin or Network Design? It seems like the other degree paths would benefit with Cisco certs added to the curriculum.

veritas_libertas

thomAZ wrote: »

So since the CCNA will be included with this degree path have you heard if will it also be included in other degree paths like the Network Admin or Network Design? It seems like the other degree paths would benefit with Cisco certs added to the curriculum.

He told me they weren't planning to at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they switched out the Network+ for the CCENT at some point.

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

There was post by the MCPWannabe on this. I will ask my adviser for more info.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/30564-western-governors-university-5.html#post279168

That list makes it sound like my MCITP: EA will basically trump out every single cert in the entire degree path

As much as I wish that were right, i seriously doubt it is.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

That list makes it sound like my MCITP: EA will basically trump out every single cert in the entire degree path

As much as I wish that were right, i seriously doubt it is.

No, you will still have other certifications, and classes to do along the way

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

No, you will still have other certifications, and classes to do along the way

Everything but Project+ says that they take MCSE (now EA) en leiu of it.

earweed

WGU prides itself on being non traditional. Personally I think that students should have the option of taking something else besides the CIW courses. Unless you have a cert whichwould otherwise satisfy that requirement you have to take the CIW course.
Hyper Me has an MCITP:EA amongst other certs and is still required to take CIW foundations because none of his numerous certs covered something so basic.

fly351

earweed wrote: »

WGU prides itself on being non traditional. Personally I think that students should have the option of taking something else besides the CIW courses. Unless you have a cert whichwould otherwise satisfy that requirement you have to take the CIW course.
Hyper Me has an MCITP:EA amongst other certs and is still required to take CIW foundations because none of his numerous certs covered something so basic.

I agree.. And as for the other classes, I have NO need or desire to take Java or Database design.. I plan I talking to them about that to see if there is anything that can be done...

Hyper-Me

I agree, but i imagine there will be very little leeway when it comes to the Database and Java stuff.

I still wish I had done a MS SQL administration exam before starting WGU which would have axed the CIW Database.