Major changes to Western Governors University (WGU) -- IT Degrees

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I agree, but i imagine there will be very little leeway when it comes to the Database and Java stuff.

I still wish I had done a MS SQL administration exam before starting WGU which would have axed the CIW Database.

No Java or CIW Database unless you are going for the Administration route. I have to admit that I am shocked by all the fuss over SQL, and Java. Having those in the degree plan makes the degree more authentic, and those areas of knowledge help an IT technician be more well rounded.

Hyper-Me

veritas_libertas wrote: »

No Java or CIW Database unless you are going for the Administration route. I have to admit that I am shocked by all the fuss over SQL, and Java. Having those in the degree plan makes the degree more authentic, and those areas of knowledge help an IT technician be more well rounded.

I would have preferred to see a MS SQL administrators exam rather than CIW DB.

Its almost guaranteed that by running/managing an MS shop you will eventually use SQL (think: all the System Center stuff, as well as tons of other products)

I imagine the CIW stuff is too entry level and trivial to account for much.

earweed

I didn't know you guys had to take CIW Database and Java. They took that out of my program, and the CIW site designer, on March 1. I could have taken them if I wanted too but I'll graduate sooner and they had basically watered down the Java (no longer took cert test, performance assesment) and CIW certs don't hold much value anyway.
I have the CIW foundations and CIW Javascript foundations and will probably never put those on a resume.

Hyper-Me

Strangely the Database class is gone from my AAP but the CIW Java cert class is still there.

I emailed my mentor about it, i'd rather not waste time on CIW stuff if i dont have to.

earweed

Isn't your Java cert a performance assesment, or do you mean CIW JavaScript? We used to take the Sun cert test for Java but they changed it to a performance assesment.
Hopefully you don't have to take JavaScript, taht's a joke. The cert test had 2 programming examples for you to figure what was wrong, this was on a 50 question test. It was mostly definitions and stuff. I could have passed the test without ever typing in a single line of code. BTW JavaScript is prob called Programming 1 on your AAP.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Strangely the Database class is gone from my AAP but the CIW Java cert class is still there.

You will still have to take Javascript if that is what you are referring to. One of my classes transferred for that.

earweed

veritas_libertas wrote: »

You will still have to take Javascript if that is what you are referring to. One of my classes transferred for that.

Bet you learned more from your class than I did from this one. The text is from 2003 and strangely enough the test hasn't been updated since then either.

Hyper-Me

This is what im referring to (see attached)

veritas_libertas

Yup, you will have to take that one.

Hyper-Me

*punches CIW in the face*

earweed

JavaScript, much less interesting than Java

Hyper-Me

Oh well, hopefully its easy since its a CIW.

fly351

veritas_libertas wrote: »

No Java or CIW Database unless you are going for the Administration route. I have to admit that I am shocked by all the fuss over SQL, and Java. Having those in the degree plan makes the degree more authentic, and those areas of knowledge help an IT technician be more well rounded.

Ok so those are NOT on the Security program anymore?

veritas_libertas

fly351 wrote: »

Ok so those are NOT on the Security program anymore?

I think those are still on that track. Personally I believe those are important areas to be knowledgeable in for a security professional. Just my opinion...

fly351

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I think those are still on that track. Personally I believe those are important areas to be knowledgeable in for a security professional. Just my opinion...

Maybe for system security, but I don't see their relevance to a network/server security role. Do you think they will allow me to change them out for MS course?

fly351

And I don't see how those courses adequately prepare you for their Masters program in Information Security.

azjag

fly351 wrote: »

And I don't see how those courses adequately prepare you for their Masters program in Information Security.

I agree with veritas_libertas on the fact that knowledge in those courses would be good for any security professional in the IT arena to have. I don't think they designed the MSISA based on what courses you took for the Bachelors. As far as I can tell the only 2 courses that carry over from the Bachelors degree at WGU is the net+ and the leadership and professionalism. But I didn't go back and compare all the BSIT coursework to the MSISA coursework. I only know the courses I had to take for my BSIT degree program and what I'm looking at for the MSISA.

And since it is an info sec and assurance degree why not require the sec+. Why not have the associate of SSCP/CISSP as an outcome. They probably don't because of cost and how long it would take to prepare for that test. But it would be nice.

This is the opening paragraph for the MSISA degree from WGU. Hope it answers some of your questions as to what WGU was thinking when they wrote the program requirements.

The Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance is a
competency-based degree program that encompasses the 10 security
domains that are the foundation of the Certified Information Systems
Security Professional (CISSP®) body of knowledge, which was
developed following strict guidelines for information security and
assurance education as prescribed by the National Security Agency. The
MS–Information Security and Assurance degree builds logically on the
body of knowledge associated with the protection of network,
communication, and data channels, and incorporates a set of core
competencies in both technology and business as it relates to planning,
implementing, and managing enterprise level security. This degree is
targeted for students who have bachelor’s degrees in business,
information technology, computer science, and information systems, as
well as others who have earned bachelor’s degrees in fields outside these
areas but need the graduate level Information Security degree to advance
professionally.

azjag

fly351 wrote: »

Maybe for system security, but I don't see their relevance to a network/server security role. Do you think they will allow me to change them out for MS course?

How do you differentiate between systems security and network/server security?

I don't think they will let you change the CIW requirements for a MS requirement.

jahsoul

I just went through my AAP (Security) and we actually have 4 CIW test:

Fundamentals
JavaScript
Site Design
Database Specialist

*shrugs*

fly351

azjag wrote: »

How do you differentiate between systems security and network/server security?

I don't think they will let you change the CIW requirements for a MS requirement.

I guess I am just being bias to where I want to be in the future, I understand the argument but my goal is to be in networking/network security. So yes, for a system security degree/position knowing the structure of web programming and database design would be useful to ensuring security of the data.

earweed

And the CIW classes aren't that difficult. I've taken the fundamentals and JavaScript, they were very easy.

Hyper-Me

I need to do the english assessment so i can get started. Hopefully I can knock out a few classes by the end of the month.

I get the feeling my mentor is going to try and force me to go slow.

jahsoul

@Hyper-Me

Must me nice. My mentor is still out of town so I haven't even looked at neither one of my assessments.

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I need to do the english assessment so i can get started. Hopefully I can knock out a few classes by the end of the month.

I get the feeling my mentor is going to try and force me to go slow.

They always do the first month until they get a feel for how quickly you can move through classes. Blaze through three or four in a month and they will be more than willing to throw more at you.

bwcarty

Did any of you new WGU guys get Ann Jacobsen as your mentor?

down77

azjag wrote: »

I don't think they designed the MSISA based on what courses you took for the Bachelors. As far as I can tell the only 2 courses that carry over from the Bachelors degree at WGU is the net+ and the leadership and professionalism.
And since it is an info sec and assurance degree why not require the sec+. Why not have the associate of SSCP/CISSP as an outcome. They probably don't because of cost and how long it would take to prepare for that test. But it would be nice.

This is the opening paragraph for the MSISA degree from WGU. Hope it answers some of your questions as to what WGU was thinking when they wrote the program requirements.

Yes the Network+ is the same, however the leadership and professionalism is much different. For now it is the same two graduate level courses as the MBA track.

As far as the SSCP/CISSP requirements while the concept is a good one, it would require the endorsement of a ISC(2) credential holder to finalize certification and also consider accessibility and portability of these exams... you can't just schedule it anytime you want anywhere you want.

down77

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I need to do the english assessment so i can get started. Hopefully I can knock out a few classes by the end of the month.

I get the feeling my mentor is going to try and force me to go slow.

That really depends on your mentor and the agreement you make with them during the initial AAV discussion. My undergrad mentor was phenomenal and encouraged me to do as much as I felt I could handle *AFTER* completing the first few courses. They may caution you on attempting a performance assessment after your 3rd month in a given semester as the tasks could potentially take longer than expected and lower your SAP.

azjag

down77 wrote: »

Yes the Network+ is the same, however the leadership and professionalism is much different. For now it is the same two graduate level courses as the MBA track.

I made the statement about the net+ and Leadership and Professionalism courses as the only two courses that the MSISA program builds off of from WGU's Bachelors IT program. It was in response to the comment made by Fly351 about how he/she doesn't see how the BS degree adequately prepares a candidate to move onto the Masters. The masters program was created as stand alone degree with no assumption that the person doing the program has a Bachelors degree from WGU.

down77 wrote: »

As far as the SSCP/CISSP requirements while the concept is a good one, it would require the endorsement of a ISC(2) credential holder to finalize certification and also consider accessibility and portability of these exams... you can't just schedule it anytime you want anywhere you want.

That is why I said the Associates of SSCP/CISSP and not the full credential. I listed time and cost involved but didn't think about how often the test is available. I'm scheduled for 4/17 so it worked out for me. And it does absolutely nothing for my Masters program, I already asked.