David's CCIE: R+S Thread

Nuul

gorebrush wrote: »

I LOVE The IT Crowd.

As do I. Sorry for the OT question but I thought while I had some Brits around I'd ask. Is part of Moss's ongoing gag that his mispronounces things? I didn't pick up on it until the Mesigo's (Messy Joe's) bit. I didn't even know Roy was Irish until they mentioned it

gorebrush

Nuul wrote: »

As do I. Sorry for the OT question but I thought while I had some Brits around I'd ask. Is part of Moss's ongoing gag that his mispronounces things? I didn't pick up on it until the Mesigo's (Messy Joe's) bit. I didn't even know Roy was Irish until they mentioned it

I've never notice him mispronounce anything... and yes Roy is Irish

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Well time to add some more interesting bits.

I met with Central IT today, and for the first time met the IT Director for our parent company. Overall I think they are keen to exploit my Cisco skills of networking AND VoIP as he told me that "we are very weak in Networking/Comms and completely empty with VoIP"

At one point I did want to do a CCVP - This could be a PERFECT opportunity to get involved with multisite rollouts of VoIP and Cisco networking for our parent company and is a MASSIVE opporunity for my career development.

I absolutely bloody love VoIP, and would definitely do a 2nd CCIE in Voice.

This, has been a bloody good day.

Good news indeed, but stay on target for your certs. One mistake is matching certs to the direction in the wind at work. I think in your case it was CCIE then VCP for a spell, now it might be CCVP. Choose something and stick to it is my advice. You can pick up a lot of VoIP knowledge on the side while you are waiting for the VoIP project to explode!

gorebrush

Very true

As I've read you say before Turgon, you still have to know how packets get there (CCIE) so I'm going to be full guns blazing for CCIE in the meantime.

gorebrush

ONT today, will be glad to finish up the CCNP and get it over and done with.

Have felt the pressure for the last 6 months due to Cisco changing the requirements (i.e. changing the whole certification process) and have felt like I can't really relax until this is done.

Hopefully we can chalk up another win today.

gorebrush

I'm now CCNP.

Thank you.

burbankmarc

Congrats! Time to celebrate.

nel

Congrats mate! well done indeed. Now time for plenty of beers

gorebrush

Well as much as I've enjoyed relaxing... the workstation has received a few upgrades this week: -

CPU is now an i7 860, Quad Core with HyperThreading which yields 8 logical processors.
SSD, 64GB effort from OCZ.

I've also bought the textbook on Cisco Unified Comupter Systems... The whole virtualised from Cisco effort. For £27 I thought it was worth a side read.

I've printed off the blueprint, and am gathering my ideas on how to start tackling it. On the weekend it appears the Mrs is working all weekend, so aside from the normal chores, and visiting my Dad, I'll be adding the SSD and putting Windows 7 back on from scratch.

Then of course, CCIE preparation begins. So, to this end, you will now see my CCIE Reading and Labbing odometers

Good luck all

gorebrush

While I can't say so far that I have put a lot of work into the CCIE (as i'm still really having a break after studying intensely since about August/September 09 to get the CCNP finished) one of the problems I've faced really with CCIE is "Where to begin?"

I've got 10 textbooks on my shelf that all pertain specifically to CCIE, with a few others that are generic technology textbooks. (I.e. Understanding IPv6, Cisco QoS exam guide, MPLS Fundamentals).

So I've been examining the syllabus for the 4.0 written exam, and decided on how to plan my attack.

The starting point for any CCIE, in my opinion should be this title: -

CCIE Routing and Switching Exam Certification Guide by Odom, Healy and Donohue.

Using the metaphor of Jeremy's during his CBT Nuggets series, he talks about the "mountains of technology", and applying that metaphor to the CCIE study, we begin with the above book to cover the peaks of the technologies, and then using the other books in the CCIE reading list, we then follow each technology mountain...

That is how I plan to start my attack.

CCIE is really the only way I want to go in terms of my certification efforts. If I have to learn anything else in the meantime, well I should be good to cover that in work time and not affect my CCIE studies. In fact, I'm hoping to be able to do some work on the CCIE on the dollar - it ultimately helps my company anyway.

So, I think i'll start my browse of the first book, and contemplate from there

Ryan82

I have also struggled with putting together a 'plan of attack'. My fear is that by the time I reach the 6th book, I forgot everything I read in the first one.

My current plan is kind of backwards from what you are doing though. I plan on reading a book for each of the technologies, then using the R&S certification guide as a last minute review before the text. I guess either method could work

Of course, then there is always that argument of whether your written exam studies should include labbing or just theory.

Maybe some others can suggest what was an effective strategy for them.

gorebrush

You raise a good point Ryan - To be fair I hadn't thought about tackling it that way round.

Also, you mention the practical side of it also - my thought was to lab as I went along to prove that I know the topics that I've read.

I've got the BSCI and BCMSN labs that should serve as a good starting point to lab - obviously i'm going to need to find some CCIE geared labs in order to nail the more advanced concepts.

Do you have physical hardware? or are you using software to lab?

I intend on using GNS/Dynamips as much as I can as this obviously saves the cost. I know some people will argue that you may "Miss out" on using a software lab, but i'm not so sure. I have a Cisco infrastructure at work, so I am at least able to get some "real" hands on... but the trouble is - my organisation doesn't have really anything bigger than a 3745 router, with plenty of 2801/1841 dotted about the place.

What I really need is exposure to 6509 switches and 7209 Routers - but the routers can be emulated...

Well, we'll see how it goes anyway. I've used Dynamips for the past 2 years from CCNA upwards and found it an excellent tool.

I do have some physical equipment though - a stack of old 2500 series routers, although I do have some 2950's and 3550 Switches. Not ideal, but I think a combination of those switches and GNS should stand me in good stead.

In the mean time - back to the books! o/

Turgon

Ryan82 wrote: »

I have also struggled with putting together a 'plan of attack'. My fear is that by the time I reach the 6th book, I forgot everything I read in the first one.

My current plan is kind of backwards from what you are doing though. I plan on reading a book for each of the technologies, then using the R&S certification guide as a last minute review before the text. I guess either method could work

Of course, then there is always that argument of whether your written exam studies should include labbing or just theory.

Maybe some others can suggest what was an effective strategy for them.

The written is sadly one of the most dumped exams on the block. People are lazy and dont want to do the reading. I have met two CCIE's who recertify using ****, one of whom openly encouraged me to save my money and use a **** to get through. Admittedly it took a few tries but I would rather win the pass under my own steam than use something like that.

The process I went through to pass the written has helped me in my lab preparations. A practice lab puts the theory into context and you will understand things much better if your written preparation is thorough.

The attrition rate for CCIE is extremely high. I estimate that only one in 50 CCIE written pass encumbants actually go on to pass the lab. So it's something like a Navy Seal 'ring my bell' program. The main reason for this is a poor grasp of fundamentals, closely followed by a lack of time to get through the track properly end to end. I should add that some very fine engineers never get through. The energy level and time requirements simply defeat them.

So you want to give yourself every possibility of success. For that do the written properly so you have a solid theoretical foundation for your lab preparations.

To that end the following works for me:

Download the recommeded white papers on the cisco website. Print them and bind them and read them.

Commit sometime every single day to study for the written. Even half an hour each day will help you. Written prep like lab prep *must* be regular or it's pointless.

Read Odoms book and do the end of chapter tests. Read no more than one chapter a day. There are over 20 of them so that will keep you very busy.

Read it again one chapter a day and repeat those end of chapter tests.

Once the second pass of the book is done do the full exam that comes on the CD in the book.

Then do the exam again, open book and try and get those marks up. Then print out the Q and A's of the ones you stink on and study those.

Then do the exam one last time.

Next, buy the Boson and study that test in the same vein. Do the technologies first, just a couple a day. Once all are covered do the final exam a couple of times. Print out the Q and A on things you keep getting wrong and study those.

Then do the Odom final exam one last time.

Then take the actual test.

You are looking at 3 - 4 months straight studying to prepare for and pass the written properly. By properly I mean not just a pass but a forged understanding of the theory you can really leverage in your lab prep.

You have to get into the zone to either pass the written or fail it in a way that leaves you equipped to pass it in a couple of weeks after a review. The written exam is very cruel to under prepared candidates. If you are not well prepared you could be annhilated.

Good luck!

Ryan82

David - I have some physical hardware, but to be honest I find it too much of a pain to recable, too noisy, and consumes too much electricity. So, I usually just use GNS3 while at home, or INE remote rack rentals. Also, during downtime at work I can play around with some non-production devices. My actual work involves hands-on with devices but no exposure to some of the technologies such as BGP and MPLS. I'm not sure if that is typical of CCIE candidates or not to only learn some of the technologies in a lab environment, but I would guess there are probably not too many positions that involve every technology on the blueprint.

Turgon - All great advice, thanks for the writeup. I'm certain it will take me much longer to prepare for the written as I will probably overstudy (if there is such a thing) for it to make the practical portion of it easier.

Regarding the excessive use of **** that you mentioned, it always amazes me how nonchalantly people talk about using them. Some people I work with actually will brag about how well they score on an exam after using that material. Seriously? Like its an accomplishment to memorize 60 questions and regurgitate it. These are the same people who will claim that the CCIE written exam is "easy". Anyone who tells me that exam or any other Cisco exam is "easy" I immediately suspect that they cheated because I have yet to take any Cisco exam that I thought was "easy".

Anyway, enough of me highjacking David's thread. Back to the studies!

gorebrush

Well, after finishing up the CCNP, I've spent some time working out what to do be doing next, and obviously, CCIE was an obvious choice.

The problem is, I am getting desperately unhappy at my current job, couple this with my 2 year (only) experience with Cisco, I've decided to park the CCIE... for now.

I don't think I have the experience yet, nor the correct exposure to Cisco.

Yes, I know a lot of you will probably think I am mad for parking it, but I don't think I am ready... yet. I want a CCIE - no doubt, but I have to be able to back this up with the proper experience, and where I am right now - There is no way I can amass that experience.

So for now, I'm topping up my MCSE to MCITP SA and EA to keep that current. Yes, I know a lot of companies aren't using it yet, but having a possibility of moving to Windows Server 2008 coming up at work, it makes sense to do it while I am a still a Server monkey.

But never fear, I am keeping a hand in Cisco at all times

Good luck to all of those of you who are better placed than I for CCIE

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Well, after finishing up the CCNP, I've spent some time working out what to do be doing next, and obviously, CCIE was an obvious choice.

The problem is, I am getting desperately unhappy at my current job, couple this with my 2 year (only) experience with Cisco, I've decided to park the CCIE... for now.

I don't think I have the experience yet, nor the correct exposure to Cisco.

Yes, I know a lot of you will probably think I am mad for parking it, but I don't think I am ready... yet. I want a CCIE - no doubt, but I have to be able to back this up with the proper experience, and where I am right now - There is no way I can amass that experience.

So for now, I'm topping up my MCSE to MCITP SA and EA to keep that current. Yes, I know a lot of companies aren't using it yet, but having a possibility of moving to Windows Server 2008 coming up at work, it makes sense to do it while I am a still a Server monkey.

But never fear, I am keeping a hand in Cisco at all times

Good luck to all of those of you who are better placed than I for CCIE

I would reconsider. You get the CCIE by *doing* the CCIE and the most important criteria there is commitment not experience. There are lots of CCIE's these days with only a few years in on experience and some with even less and they are very employable. Of course there are some that are less employable, the dumpers. Far too many people wait until they have the *experience* to attempt to do this track, and by the time they have attained it or are attaining it they are often far too engaged at work to have the time to do the track properly. This is the situation Im in now. I have a CCIE level job but not bandwidth on works time to persue it, my time is too valuable working on realtime strategic and tactical design and operations improvements. It's not practice labs my employer wants me spending works time on, it's operational results.

The best place to study for the CCIE is at work, 9 - 5 when your brain is fresh. Many CCIE's are minted during long boring shifts in NOCs. Clear a gap at work to put in one hour or two each day on your studies and you are set. All you have to do then is keep at it for a year or two. Throw in some studytime evenings and weekends and it's all good.

The amount of experience one needs to do the CCIE is really a moot point. I wouldn't recommend that a complete noob start the CCIE track from zero. Then again many people did and some became trainers! Before the CCNA track the CCIE was all there was. You bought some books, a little gear off ebay and you stumbled along like everyone else. It was all a new thing.

But the market has moved on and the expectations from employers are higher today, so yes I think if you are punting to get the CCIE you do want to back it up with some experience. But running a LAN with some access to Cisco gear from time to time is better than nothing. Add to which the level of material you will be exposed to when you study for the CCIE properly will open up all sorts of possibilities for you on the career front. You wont be Lead Architect of a Senior Engineering team without years of enterprise experience to back up your CCIE, but the qualification will energise what you do have going for you to push to be that guy one day.

Just how much experience do you need?

The CCIE does not teach you about 6500's,CSM's FWSMs, ACE or Nexus. It does not teach you great design approach. It does not teach you about *real* firewalls or load balancers. It does not teach you about the realities of enterprise level operations or design. But it does teach some good principles and opens your eyes up to the possibilities of IOS solving all kinds of situations in the field, and it does it in ways you would never acquire simply by turning up at your job and working hard. Insights.

The biggest thing with the CCIE is the decision. Make it and do it because I have seen too many people retreat when it comes to this thing and the fact is many of them never return to the fold once their career and life gets *really* serious. They just dont have time. Just get the approach right and you can do it. Back when I was studying for CCIE in 2001 I probably didnt have much more access to Cisco then you do now but if things had worked out a little differently I was on track for a lab pass in 2003 or 2004. Job choices, personal life and approach to my work hampered me there so I never created the gap I needed to really study for the thing regularly and consistently, although I did try.

Looking back just on the personal front I should have tanked an on off relationship I had at the time that wasn't working which would have cut out all the commuting between workplace and my partners house. You cant do practice labs on the train and our weekends together were off limits for regular lengthy study sessions. So none of that helped. I compensated by reading labs on the train but that made me cranky by the time I pulled into work in the morning or late home in the evening.

During work I took too much on when I could have easily created a routine of doing a practice lab for an hour each lunchtime. It would have been a dreadful waste of the majority of a 5 hour rack slot but at least it would be something. I could have picked up on racktime a couple of nights a week and at the weekend if my personal life was balanced at the time but when I wasnt at work I was either on a train trying to get home or busy all weekend with no buy in from my partner for practice labs. I did much better before we moved in together fulltime as I could at least study evenings in my work flat during the week.

The best solution at the time though would have been to simply change jobs and get away from the drain of being responsible for a companies production networks. Presales or any Cisco Partner job would have afforded me both the works time and encouragement to get through the track. But I made the mistake of being too concerned about my employer so stayed put too long in that job. The strain of the commuting, the frustration of not having racktime hours and problems at home and the force feeding of studying on the train at 7am or 6pm when I should have been simply enjoying my coffee before a busy day at work ahead was killing me. When I finally made the leap into contracting any chance of doing study on works dollar evaporated because nobody pays contractor rates to do practice labs.

Just a general comment here, if you want the CCIE you need a solid relationship with your significant other at home. Without that it usually comes down to staying together or having a number. If you dont want those sorts of problems, ask yourself how serious you are about this track and your relationship and work something out between you. For our part indoors the track has taken a very long time and my wife remains supportive. But I think if I had killed myself trying to do this inside 18 months by doing lab after lab after lab most evenings and weekends I would be living alone by now and my family is too important to me to allow that to happen. So we are where we are with it all..

So there is a potted history of how some changes and reorganisation can make things a little easier!

gorebrush

Well, if it was clarity I needed, I just got it.

I'll be back.

Ryan82

Thanks Turgon, I kinda needed that as well.

Though my work these days is all network related, like David I felt that my real world experience was a little lacking and had frequently wondered if pursuing the CCIE was a waste of my time.

But as you said, if I wait until I am in a senior engineer status, I may not have the time/motivation to pursue the CCIE. I guess another fact that was discouraging to me was that while if you told me to configure something, I could do it, but if asked in a meeting what would be the best solution to a problem, I would probably struggle. This is why I had debated on pursuing the CCDA/DP track first to help solidify why I should implement a certain solution over another in different situations.

My current work/personal situation is actually pretty ideal though for pursuing the CCIE. Work offers a lot of downtime while I'm there, and with a week on week off schedule, no kids, and the wifey working normal 8-5 shifts, I don't think I will ever be afforded as much time to study.

With that being said, I too will likely keep pressing on and try to get my number. If nothing else, I will have learned a lot in the process.

Turgon

Ryan82 wrote: »

Thanks Turgon, I kinda needed that as well.

Though my work these days is all network related, like David I felt that my real world experience was a little lacking and had frequently wondered if pursuing the CCIE was a waste of my time.

But as you said, if I wait until I am in a senior engineer status, I may not have the time/motivation to pursue the CCIE. I guess another fact that was discouraging to me was that while if you told me to configure something, I could do it, but if asked in a meeting what would be the best solution to a problem, I would probably struggle. This is why I had debated on pursuing the CCDA/DP track first to help solidify why I should implement a certain solution over another in different situations.

My current work/personal situation is actually pretty ideal though for pursuing the CCIE. Work offers a lot of downtime while I'm there, and with a week on week off schedule, no kids, and the wifey working normal 8-5 shifts, I don't think I will ever be afforded as much time to study.

With that being said, I too will likely keep pressing on and try to get my number. If nothing else, I will have learned a lot in the process.

Do it now. With that kind of bandwidth at my disposal I would have passed in 2004. Your dynamics at work and in life will only change later on so use the time you have now. In terms of the CCDA/DP, it's a worthy goal but be cautious of the trap of waiting until you have this cert or that cert to progress your career. There are many CCDPs who dont do design work, and more than a few who are not very good at it. The track can help but you learn design by doing design really so seek opportunities at work to grow first and do the certs as you go along.

gorebrush

OK so I'm going to keep this thread going because ultimately I still want to do the CCIE.

At the moment I am stuck between an incredible rock and an even more incredible hard place. I've had quite a depressing year so far in terms of the work situation. After making my sole team member redundant last November, and my manager leaving in June (coincidentally, he was my Teams Father, so i'm glad they are both gone in some respects) - I have now got sole responsibility for the running of the IT Systems at my company. While I did NOT get a title change, OR a payrise, I now have a new manager (namely the Financial Controller) and he relies on me for anything and everything technical.

I've been pushing some projects which I thought would have really made things a lot easier here, chiefly a VMWare project. I nailed out a crude, but sufficient design, and put together the costs (in fact I put together 6 different cost models, and worked out TCO versus a DR contract which we would have consequently dropped it) and that got canned because our parent company already run VMWare hence have suggested that we move everything down there instead.

Now, this comes as no surprise, as our parent company centralise absolutely everything, it is only a matter of time before this was going to happen. Interestingly, they have said that they want to use my networking skills, as nobody there has anything to do with Cisco. So I could end up working for the parent company as a Networking Engineer and have a lot of input with a VoIP project as well.

But, nothing has happened so far, so at the moment I am left in limbo.

I really don't know what to do, as there is no other permanent work about (I've been looking hard for the past 9 months) and with the recession constantly over us, I'm finding it hard work. I've thought about contracting, but what about if I never found any work?

It's hard times

gorebrush

After a long hard think: -

I cancelled 70-649. Time to get back into Cisco.

gorebrush

David says bring it on, and bring it on he will.

After deciding to get back onto Cisco - there is only one way I can commit really and that is by booking the exam.

So, ladies and gentlenoobs...

February 28, 2011 - CCIE: R&S Written

Booked and paid for.

laidbackfreak

gorebrush wrote: »

February 28, 2011 - CCIE: R&S Written

Booked and paid for.

Will be watching the time tick towards this

burbankmarc

Nice! Where are you at with the exam checklist? If you don't have it yet you can find it under the exam blueprint section on the Cisco site.

Good luck, and stay tenacious.

gorebrush

Well after a month of being away from the Cisco books, I guess I am still at square 1 for the moment, however that isnt such a bad thing.

I'm a bit refreshed after looking at Windows Server stuff for the past fortnight, it was nice to dip into something else and get CCNP settled in.

However, my wife to be is in work for the weekend, so I have a perfect opportunity to reacquaint myself

gorebrush

Well I've stuck with my original plan - I'm now skim reading the CCIE Exam Guide 4th Ed, and so far I've only found one or two things I haven't at least "not heard of"

I'm sure once I get down to the proper reading I'll find things I've never heard of. Also, it was December 2008 when I did BSCI, so most of the big routing protocols are going to need a big refresh as I haven't used them for so long.

Not too concerned so far though.

gorebrush

To wrap up a successful weekend of CCIE reading and 6 hours achieved.

Yesterday completed a scan read of the CCIE Exam Guide, nothing really worrying. Today properly went through the first 5 chapters. Again, a lot of it is revision for all you seasoned CCNP people.

However, I did note that there were a lot of services as part of the IOS that I didn't even know existed, and I've had a fair read of other books and things up until now.

Anyway, nothing sinister anyway - all simple enough.

Now to whet the appetite in Chapter 6 - IP Forwarding. This is what i've been looking forward to - STP and other such topics I did find a little boring, however, it is necessary of course.

Here is where the real meat is and where I love routing. Brings me back to my BSCI days at the end of 2008 - I think I went from day 1 to passing within 6 weeks and loved every minute.

Back to it

gorebrush

And here we are with the first, what appears to be challening topic: -

InARP

At last

I've only read a few sentences on it, and this is it for me tonight. Will pick up sometime tomorrow for an hour.

I know my behaviour towards the certifications has been somewhat sporadic, but something that Turgon has highlighted in this thread has been what has brought it home - and that is the bandwidth to study for a CCIE. In my current job, I might not be 100% happy, but I am also not 100% busy. I am pretty confident when I say that I could easily put 1 maybe 2 hours every day into certification study at work - and the pay off for me would be huge as sometimes I struggle to get stuff done in the evenings.

My study is restricted to weekends, or basically when my fiancée is in work - luckily she works late most days (1pm-9pm) so this allows me to get 1-2 hours even in an evening.

But I would be foolish to try and move jobs now where I might not get the same luxury of time as I do now.

That's it for this weekend. Hope you've had a good weekend studying.

gorebrush

So I think I've got a good handle on how to tackle this exam now. I've read through 8 chapters so far, and I'm feeling pretty comfortable about the content. No way have I commited a lot to memory, but that's the next stage.

I've got the written list next to me, and I can see only one real strategy.

Take a section and attack it. Section 1. of course - Layer 2 Technologies.

I'm armed with my copy of Cisco LAN Switching, and now it is time to hit it. Hopefully I have enough material here between the books on the shelf, the internet, and all you kind people here

Please keep checking back and dropping in if you have any questions. Hopefully I will start putting together some materials of the REAL tricky/neat stuff when I get there

Thanks all

gorebrush

Sat in work now. Have brought Cisco LAN Switching along for the ride today.

Solved the usual "first thing in the morning problem" of having too much in the Exchange store so that's dismounted (The amount of e-mail this place has amassed is simply frightening)

So hopefully I'll be able to get a couple more hours in today.