David's CCIE: R+S Thread

gorebrush

Not a bad day, made it into double figure reading hour numbers.

Into Chapter 3 of Cisco LAN Switching. A lot of history in this book, how Ethernet came about, and a lot of talk about what are now of course legacy networks (10BaseT). Though, I'm sure someone is about to tell me that they still see customers using it somewhere LOL

Bank holiday weekend coming up, looking forward to capitalise on this as I think Rebecca is in work most of it.

CCIE2B

Turgon wrote: »

I would reconsider. You get the CCIE by *doing* the CCIE and the most important criteria there is commitment not experience. There are lots of CCIE's these days with only a few years in on experience and some with even less and they are very employable. Of course there are some that are less employable, the dumpers. Far too many people wait until they have the *experience* to attempt to do this track, and by the time they have attained it or are attaining it they are often far too engaged at work to have the time to do the track properly. This is the situation Im in now. I have a CCIE level job but not bandwidth on works time to persue it, my time is too valuable working on realtime strategic and tactical design and operations improvements. It's not practice labs my employer wants me spending works time on, it's operational results.

The best place to study for the CCIE is at work, 9 - 5 when your brain is fresh. Many CCIE's are minted during long boring shifts in NOCs. Clear a gap at work to put in one hour or two each day on your studies and you are set. All you have to do then is keep at it for a year or two. Throw in some studytime evenings and weekends and it's all good.

The amount of experience one needs to do the CCIE is really a moot point. I wouldn't recommend that a complete noob start the CCIE track from zero. Then again many people did and some became trainers! Before the CCNA track the CCIE was all there was. You bought some books, a little gear off ebay and you stumbled along like everyone else. It was all a new thing.

But the market has moved on and the expectations from employers are higher today, so yes I think if you are punting to get the CCIE you do want to back it up with some experience. But running a LAN with some access to Cisco gear from time to time is better than nothing. Add to which the level of material you will be exposed to when you study for the CCIE properly will open up all sorts of possibilities for you on the career front. You wont be Lead Architect of a Senior Engineering team without years of enterprise experience to back up your CCIE, but the qualification will energise what you do have going for you to push to be that guy one day.

Just how much experience do you need?

The CCIE does not teach you about 6500's,CSM's FWSMs, ACE or Nexus. It does not teach you great design approach. It does not teach you about *real* firewalls or load balancers. It does not teach you about the realities of enterprise level operations or design. But it does teach some good principles and opens your eyes up to the possibilities of IOS solving all kinds of situations in the field, and it does it in ways you would never acquire simply by turning up at your job and working hard. Insights.

The biggest thing with the CCIE is the decision. Make it and do it because I have seen too many people retreat when it comes to this thing and the fact is many of them never return to the fold once their career and life gets *really* serious. They just dont have time. Just get the approach right and you can do it. Back when I was studying for CCIE in 2001 I probably didnt have much more access to Cisco then you do now but if things had worked out a little differently I was on track for a lab pass in 2003 or 2004. Job choices, personal life and approach to my work hampered me there so I never created the gap I needed to really study for the thing regularly and consistently, although I did try.

Looking back just on the personal front I should have tanked an on off relationship I had at the time that wasn't working which would have cut out all the commuting between workplace and my partners house. You cant do practice labs on the train and our weekends together were off limits for regular lengthy study sessions. So none of that helped. I compensated by reading labs on the train but that made me cranky by the time I pulled into work in the morning or late home in the evening.

During work I took too much on when I could have easily created a routine of doing a practice lab for an hour each lunchtime. It would have been a dreadful waste of the majority of a 5 hour rack slot but at least it would be something. I could have picked up on racktime a couple of nights a week and at the weekend if my personal life was balanced at the time but when I wasnt at work I was either on a train trying to get home or busy all weekend with no buy in from my partner for practice labs. I did much better before we moved in together fulltime as I could at least study evenings in my work flat during the week.

The best solution at the time though would have been to simply change jobs and get away from the drain of being responsible for a companies production networks. Presales or any Cisco Partner job would have afforded me both the works time and encouragement to get through the track. But I made the mistake of being too concerned about my employer so stayed put too long in that job. The strain of the commuting, the frustration of not having racktime hours and problems at home and the force feeding of studying on the train at 7am or 6pm when I should have been simply enjoying my coffee before a busy day at work ahead was killing me. When I finally made the leap into contracting any chance of doing study on works dollar evaporated because nobody pays contractor rates to do practice labs.

Just a general comment here, if you want the CCIE you need a solid relationship with your significant other at home. Without that it usually comes down to staying together or having a number. If you dont want those sorts of problems, ask yourself how serious you are about this track and your relationship and work something out between you. For our part indoors the track has taken a very long time and my wife remains supportive. But I think if I had killed myself trying to do this inside 18 months by doing lab after lab after lab most evenings and weekends I would be living alone by now and my family is too important to me to allow that to happen. So we are where we are with it all..

So there is a potted history of how some changes and reorganisation can make things a little easier!

WOW Awesome post. I have been puttig mine off for a long time. This post really knocked sense into me.

gorebrush

So I've been pondering further about the whole... "thing" that is the CCIE. Having read probably 150 pages into Cisco LAN Switching now, and thinking about it at a very high level, the Cisco CCIE is (from what I understand now) two things: -

1. You are an expert in all of the subjects tested in the CCIE. You know how STP works inside out, you can VLAN with your eyes close, you can tweak those EIGRP metrics to influence how it works, you can policy-map the crap out of a BGP setup.

2. You are able to take your knowledge from number 1. and put it all together. OK so you know how NAT works - maybe it will help you in a tricky portion of the lab. You've made a change to an OSPF attribute, and now for whatever reason it has broken link - what next?

The CCIE is not just about "knowing stuff" - well, ok, I guess, it IS about knowing stuff. However, it's about knowing "how stuff works together" and if you come up against a certain scenario, you understand why it became broken, and furthermore you have some idea on how to fix it.

I think this is the mark of a true CCIE, and what I will be aiming for when I sit my Lab, whenever that may be.

laidbackfreak

gorebrush wrote: »

he CCIE is not just about "knowing stuff" - well, ok, I guess, it IS about knowing stuff. However, it's about knowing "how stuff works together" and if you come up against a certain scenario, you understand why it became broken, and furthermore you have some idea on how to fix it.

I think this is the mark of a true CCIE, and what I will be aiming for when I sit my Lab, whenever that may be.

imo your spot on fella and this is where you see the difference between those that have just passed the lab by errr any means they deem, to those that have truely devoted the time to understand the subject matter.

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Not a bad day, made it into double figure reading hour numbers.

Into Chapter 3 of Cisco LAN Switching. A lot of history in this book, how Ethernet came about, and a lot of talk about what are now of course legacy networks (10BaseT). Though, I'm sure someone is about to tell me that they still see customers using it somewhere LOL

Bank holiday weekend coming up, looking forward to capitalise on this as I think Rebecca is in work most of it.

Good. Keep that reading up everyday now and get across that 50 hour mark as soon as you can. Get chomping through Wendall Odom's book now. I suggest you do no more than one chapter a day including the end of chapter tests. You could clear that book in 24 days like that. Record the end of chapter score on a white board for each chapter. I had a table drawn on my study white board to do this with all the chapter subjects listed and the score recorded next to it while going through. Once the book was done and all end of chapter questions finished I started at the beginning doing a couple of end of chapter tests a day again. This time skim read the chapter before doing the end of chapter test. Record the score on the white board next to the previous one. Then study the questions and solutions you got wrong. You should find end of chapter questions on the Odom CD that comes with the book. Go through all the end of chapter questions like this. Suggest you get a folder with some dividers and any q and a you get wrong in the end of chapter tests you print and file. Once you are through the book a second time, revise the q and a you have in the file for all topics. Then do the Odom CD full exam. Then do it a second time, but open book this time so you can research the answer. At this point print out the q an a you get wrong. Revise those then do the test a final time.

After this buy the Boson and start using those.

So to recap..

1. Read Odom one chapter a day and do the end of chapter Q and A. Just one chapter a day please, plenty for you to think about in one day!
2. Once through the whole book, repeat, but this time two chapters a day just skimming the material and doing two end of chapter tests. Print out any Q a A you still get wrong and file by subject in a ring binder
3. Revise Q and A you got wrong in the ringbinder
4. Take the Odom CD full exam
5. Take it a second time but open book this time. Print out any Q and A you get wrong and file by subject. Then revise these.
6. Take it a third and final time.

7. Buy the Boson practice tests

gorebrush

Excellent advice - just one question.

Is the Odom book "enough" to get through the written?

Taking on board what you've said, my plan of action so far was to get through LAN Switching, then TCP/IP Routing Vol 1 (2nd) and Vol 2, then properly hitting the Odom book (hence I've done a lot of background reading before)

I've never taken the chapter a day approach, I usually just try and "read as many pages as I can" but the CCIE is a different kettle of fish to your standard exams.

Here we are VERY much in the mindset of hare and tortoise, trying to blast through every piece of content just isn't going to work where it might have done before.

Another big thing with the CCIE, which I believe I'm starting to really get now - it's a very psychological test too - you have to be able to pace yourself, look at things from the 10,000ft view so to speak, and think about scenarios that you can apply these pieces of technology in ways you probably wouldnt have thought of.

For example, even though it is an R&S lab, who is to say that you dont have to provide a network that is capable of running inline power to a specific set of ports for VoIP?

We are not just router and switching engineers, we are solution providers - and we have to understand the full extent of the features of our equipment to provide a fully rounded and competent solution - not just in the lab either - this applies to our real world too

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Excellent advice - just one question.

Is the Odom book "enough" to get through the written?

Taking on board what you've said, my plan of action so far was to get through LAN Switching, then TCP/IP Routing Vol 1 (2nd) and Vol 2, then properly hitting the Odom book (hence I've done a lot of background reading before)

I've never taken the chapter a day approach, I usually just try and "read as many pages as I can" but the CCIE is a different kettle of fish to your standard exams.

Here we are VERY much in the mindset of hare and tortoise, trying to blast through every piece of content just isn't going to work where it might have done before.

Another big thing with the CCIE, which I believe I'm starting to really get now - it's a very psychological test too - you have to be able to pace yourself, look at things from the 10,000ft view so to speak, and think about scenarios that you can apply these pieces of technology in ways you probably wouldnt have thought of.

For example, even though it is an R&S lab, who is to say that you dont have to provide a network that is capable of running inline power to a specific set of ports for VoIP?

We are not just router and switching engineers, we are solution providers - and we have to understand the full extent of the features of our equipment to provide a fully rounded and competent solution - not just in the lab either - this applies to our real world too

You are correct. With all due respect to the precursor qualifications (and I have a few of those), there is nothing like the CCIE. With the CCIE you have to put things together.

The written and the lab are both different beasts, and so is the preparation for them. The psychology you need comes through effective training throughout the study process. Some candidates do a lot of work actually but their preparation is poor so they are not equipped to handle the lab. If they learn this the hard way after over a year of preparation, the exam destroys them and they usually never recover..

It is a technical test, but it also requires you to develop an insight for things.

To that end you want to be squeezing the maximum out of your lab preparations so you come away from each exercise with enhanced learning in a practical context. This is accomplished by having a solid theoretical grounding going in, and that is what the written is for. When you do practice labs there is a lot there you dont understand well, or even understand..yet. The written doesn't cure all that but without a good written foundation it's pointless really.

In terms of written preparation do Odom's book first and on the side read the Cisco recommended white papers and dip into the books you mentioned. But Odom's book is the lynchpin. You will be using your books constantly when the written is finished and you are starting your lab preparations. You will find over time that what you think you understood quite well in written prep you begin to understand better when you do lab exercises.

One of the biggest failings of lab candidates is lack of reading throughout their lab prep. It doesn't end when you pass the written. I should add that for some candidates it never even begins as the written is dumped to death these days. The same people wonder why the lab pass seems so elusive, and god help them if they **** the lab and get level 15 access to a mission critical core...

But there is something else. The CCIE moniker has always carried with it a lot of expectation from the holder. Back in 1999 there were CCIE's who did good work and others who didn't really know what they were doing, but they could get away with this in the 'Gold Rush' as it was a relatively new thing. If the CCIE said do this, it got done, even if it was bullshit.

Today Cisco networking has matured to the extent that you really do have more critical eyes on your work. You may have to lead some of the best network engineers on TE for example. In other words the CCIE isn't a ticket to looking snotty all day long. You really do have to come up with the goods and be a respected technical leader. There are some solid timeserved CCNA's these days who will expose a poor CCIE and make them look like an idiot pretty quickly if they are not careful.

Going into the workplace today with the CCIE without the recomposite nouce to back it up is like putting a gun to your head. The CCIE does not replace experience so any candidate owes it to themselves to squeeze the best learning experience they can possibly have out of the journey to get a number, because it's unlikely they will ever go through such an intense learning curve again.

Get the written inside three months and then move on to lab prep. You will be reading constantly throughout. Your looking at 200 hours of reading to ace the written test so get cracking.

Do not 'speed read' for the written. Read one chapter a day and reflect. There is enough in one chapter of Odom to fry your brains. You do not understand it by speed reading it.

gorebrush

Excellent, many thanks again.

So, where do I send my cheque?

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Excellent, many thanks again.

So, where do I send my cheque?

No cheque. Just get 200 hours of reading done asap.

gorebrush

Turgon wrote: »

No cheque. Just get 200 hours of reading done asap.

I'm on it.

gorebrush

14 reading hours in. Concentrating on getting through the Odom book from now on, completed Chapter 1 today.

Will do Chapter 2 and 3 tomorrow in two seperate sessions as I've already completed all my weekend chores today.

Hoping for a big session on Monday as it is bank holiday, may do 4/5/6 as well.

Want to get into the IP Forwarding quickly as this is what I find most interesting - however this does not also mean I'll be rushing hastily through the first lot. Slow and steady will win this race.

EDIT: I can see why these blog threads are so useful - I've just read through the entire of mine and can see where my thoughts truly were before, and I can appreciate that I'm now at the "right" mindset now.

gorebrush

17 hours in today.

Finished chapter 2 - VLANs - really nothing revolutionary here, but some good concepts covered.

About half way through chapter 3 now, STP. I always found STP tricky, but I'm getting my head around it now. I've had enough for today, but 3 hours is good progress.

Up at 6am in the morning, so a good day to get a lot of work done as Rebecca is working until 930pm. Day to myself, only a few things to do about the house, so life shouldn't get in the way of CCIE study tomorrow.

I know next weekend I'll be busy all of Saturday, so tomorrow will make up for that.

Also, getting married in 14 weeks, so I think i'll lose a bit of study time then. I'll be prepared for that and hopefully keep up the momentum which I intend to really get going tomorrow.

Hope you've all had good weekends studying.

DevilWAH

gorebrush wrote: »

Also, getting married in 14 weeks, so I think i'll lose a bit of study time then. I'll be prepared for that and hopefully keep up the momentum which I intend to really get going tomorrow.

Hope you've all had good weekends studying.

Congratulations on the wedding plans. but if you think that will inter-fear with study just wait for the kids to come along !!!

gorebrush

Finished Chapter 3 today, and going to heed the advice of reflecting.

Another 2 hours today however, bringing my total to 19. Pleased so far. Had a look through Chapter 4, and that's pretty much IP fundamentals really.

Chapter 5 seems like a massive laundry list of other services - so I'll come back to that one later on.

Going to keep the pressure on, and carry on with CCIE studies while working on the dollar. While my position at work is still really in the unknown - I'd best prepare myself for whatever eventuality may come up, and while a CCIE# is but a dream, it is beginning to become a reality. Just have to remember to be consistent in studying and keep reflecting.

bertieb

Looks like some good, consistent progress being made David, nice work.

gorebrush

Consistency and repetition are the key.

Consistent repetition is surely a winning formula in and of itself

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Finished Chapter 3 today, and going to heed the advice of reflecting.

Another 2 hours today however, bringing my total to 19. Pleased so far. Had a look through Chapter 4, and that's pretty much IP fundamentals really.

Chapter 5 seems like a massive laundry list of other services - so I'll come back to that one later on.

Going to keep the pressure on, and carry on with CCIE studies while working on the dollar. While my position at work is still really in the unknown - I'd best prepare myself for whatever eventuality may come up, and while a CCIE# is but a dream, it is beginning to become a reality. Just have to remember to be consistent in studying and keep reflecting.

Good work on the hours front, it is how the CCIE is won. See if you can catch up with the hours put in by this guy and then try and keep up. It's a good pace and will get you there. Also good to have a study buddy.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccie/55422-begins.html

At least 1 hour a day is the golden rule. More is better.

gorebrush

Finishing up for the day at work - won't get any studies done tonight as the fiancée is off work and it's time for quality time with her.

However, managed 2 hours work on the dollar, so that feels good. Into EIGRP now, big revision for me as I've not touched it since passing the BSCI. It isn't difficult though (so far, at least).

That sees me pushing past 20 hours, and I'm hoping to keep this up.

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Finishing up for the day at work - won't get any studies done tonight as the fiancée is off work and it's time for quality time with her.

However, managed 2 hours work on the dollar, so that feels good. Into EIGRP now, big revision for me as I've not touched it since passing the BSCI. It isn't difficult though (so far, at least).

That sees me pushing past 20 hours, and I'm hoping to keep this up.

Cool. You will feel better once you make fifty. Take the pain.

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Finishing up for the day at work - won't get any studies done tonight as the fiancée is off work and it's time for quality time with her.

However, managed 2 hours work on the dollar, so that feels good. Into EIGRP now, big revision for me as I've not touched it since passing the BSCI. It isn't difficult though (so far, at least).

That sees me pushing past 20 hours, and I'm hoping to keep this up.

How did it go today? Any plans for study this evening? The first 100 hours are the worst

gorebrush

Yes did about 90 minutes at work, lots of disruptions today. However I am going to get an hour in this evening hopefully. Should be able to get more in on the dollar tomorrow, and Rebecca is working until 930pm tomorrow so I can see a 2/3 hour slot tomorrow evening, if my day plans fall through. But I am getting something done daily, which is good.

Over the weekend I will be fishing my lab out of the attic, I've got 2 C3550's and a pair of C2950's. GNS will form the routing function of the lab, so I will need to source a quad port Ethernet card.

gorebrush

Oops didn't mean to post yet... Anyway that's about it, as I'm clearing the chapters, or even progressing through them, I'd like to lab what I'm reading, to help reinforce As you will.

gorebrush

Well another 3 hours in total and chapter 7 EIGRP now finished. Need to start labbing the basics now, but will carry on marching through the theory until the weekend. Going to read lightly OSPF now, then a bit more quality time with the good lady.

gorebrush

Another two hours chalked up this evening after a somewhat frustrating day at work.

Absolutely no chance of an Exchange upgrade, oh well. I'll keep on trucking with CCIE instead then.

Over the 25 hour mark now, it is a start. Will get 2 hours tomorrow, can't see any happening Saturday because the good lady is off, and my best man and his fiancé are coming over so we can talk wedding arrangements for ourselves (Though I will be his best man in 2012 too)

Sunday however, I can foresee 4-5 hours if I can make it a good day. I'll be up from 6:00am and will have to squeeze in a visit to my Dad.

So here's to ongoing progress.

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Another two hours chalked up this evening after a somewhat frustrating day at work.

Absolutely no chance of an Exchange upgrade, oh well. I'll keep on trucking with CCIE instead then.

Over the 25 hour mark now, it is a start. Will get 2 hours tomorrow, can't see any happening Saturday because the good lady is off, and my best man and his fiancé are coming over so we can talk wedding arrangements for ourselves (Though I will be his best man in 2012 too)

Sunday however, I can foresee 4-5 hours if I can make it a good day. I'll be up from 6:00am and will have to squeeze in a visit to my Dad.

So here's to ongoing progress.

You are doing fine young man! Get that 100 mark passed asap then you have the groove and momentum. 1500 hours for labprep and reading combined and you have a number. 2 year programme at your present pace. Love your wife not your lab and all is well. Good luck!

gorebrush

Thanks! The road is long but getting easier already now I've finished pass #1 of EIGRP. Well into OSPF basics now and it has been a massive refresher for me. As I pointed out in another thread, I am not intimidated in the slightest, just going to plug away and keep that lab/reading counter ticking up.

Everything else (job) will take care of itself. I think of the CCIE as my metaphorical pennies, the pounds come from the job. Now, apply a well known saying about pounds and pennies looking after themselves, and you will probably get where I am coming from

Turgon

gorebrush wrote: »

Thanks! The road is long but getting easier already now I've finished pass #1 of EIGRP. Well into OSPF basics now and it has been a massive refresher for me. As I pointed out in another thread, I am not intimidated in the slightest, just going to plug away and keep that lab/reading counter ticking up.

Everything else (job) will take care of itself. I think of the CCIE as my metaphorical pennies, the pounds come from the job. Now, apply a well known saying about pounds and pennies looking after themselves, and you will probably get where I am coming from

Cool. September is critical. Attack it now and get those hours piling in this month. Cross 50 and try for 100 in September and 300 by Christmas. Keep reading Odom. Dont sweat lab hours too much at this stage, you will be doing 1000 after you pass the written at least. Read patiently, one chapter a day, reflect, test using the CD, record score, move on, rinse and repeat.

200 for written. 1500 for lab.

gorebrush

On it

Turgon

It's the weekend, so try and get those hours in. We have family coming over this weekend so it's going to be difficult but I intend to look at QoS for a few hours across the two days.

gorebrush

Got visitors today but I've cleared a 4 hour window tomorrow, that's my only chance this weekend. May get another hour in tomorrow evening but not banking on it. Still 4 hours is better than nothing, and would at least take me over the 30 hour mark.