Offered a job today.

Hyper-Me

i interviewed for a "Systems Consultant/Engineer" job last week, and was offered the job today. Essentially supporting an array of customers full IT needs with MS systems and some networking.

The offer is 5000$ more base pay than I make now plus performance bonuses. With the "estimated" (what the other guys pull out) yearly compensation being 15000$ more than I make now. The insurance isnt quite as good, and I lose lots of vacation and sick time, and I wont get to work on as many cool projects as I do now.....so im trying to weigh wether or not I want to do this.

I have a meeting with the CTO at my current employer tomorrow to discuss counter offers.

I guess i'll know more tomorrow!

crrussell3

Congrats on the offer. That does seem like you will be in a difficult situation trying to decide which will be better for you overall.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

i interviewed for a "Systems Consultant/Engineer" job last week, and was offered the job today. Essentially supporting an array of customers full IT needs with MS systems and some networking.

The offer is 5000$ more base pay than I make now plus performance bonuses. With the "estimated" (what the other guys pull out) yearly compensation being 15000$ more than I make now. The insurance isnt quite as good, and I lose lots of vacation and sick time, and I wont get to work on as many cool projects as I do now.....so im trying to weigh wether or not I want to do this.

I have a meeting with the CTO at my current employer tomorrow to discuss counter offers.

I guess i'll know more tomorrow!

Awesome. Does the new company have better benefits (like paid schooling/certs/training classes)?

Hyper-Me

knwminus wrote: »

Awesome. Does the new company have better benefits (like paid schooling/certs/training classes)?

They havnt said. Im so used to not getting any of that where i work now that I didnt even think to ask.

I will say that I believe it was my certs that put me over the top. He kept asking me about them over and over and was pretty impressed that I brought a copy of my MS transcript with me to prove them.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

They havnt said. Im so used to not getting any of that where i work now that I didnt even think to ask.

I will say that I believe it was my certs that put me over the top. He kept asking me about them over and over and was pretty impressed that I brought a copy of my MS transcript with me to prove them.

You gotta ask about that man!

At any rate I thought I saw that you company was sending you to an ISA training in another thread. Do they have a 6 month rule where as any type of training must be repaid (at a prorated amount) if the employee leaves within 6 months?

RobertKaucher

From what you are saying it seems like it is not worth it. Less than $100.00 a week you would take home. Count the bonus and maybe $200 a week but factor in sick and vacation time and the technology you currently work with.... If it were a certain $200 a week and the vacation looked better I would say go for it. But it seems like you would be losing a lot.

Zartanasaurus

Make sure you add up what the difference would be in vacation/sick leave as well as medical benefits and factor that in vs how this new job fits into your career plans as well as how secure you think this job would be.

JBrown

it's not worth it. "Cool projects" are the tankers for us IT people, you can not move up and ahead with out doing new and fancy things as at your current place. 5K upgrade is not that big as it sounds. Loosing the chance to advance yourself with new tech is worth at least 15K to 20K, because now you will have to find time to learn something new.

Sumptuous

Congrats M8

networker050184

JBrown wrote: »

it's not worth it. "Cool projects" are the tankers for us IT people, you can not move up and ahead with out doing new and fancy things as at your current place. 5K upgrade is not that big as it sounds. Loosing the chance to advance yourself with new tech is worth at least 15K to 20K, because now you will have to find time to learn something new.

I agree here. That $5k extra would be nice, but it really isn't that much extra in your pocket each paycheck, especially with more expensive health care. Performance bonuses are nice (get mine next check!), but working on new exciting things is really important to me in a job. You don't want to be bored out of your mind in a few months wishing you had your old job back.

Congrats on the offer and good luck on what ever you decide!

Hyper-Me

Talked to the boss today, waiting to hear back on a counter being approved.

It doesn't seem too likely, our budget shortfall is pretty bad this year (public sector). But the more I look at it the more I think a lot of you are correct in that it really isnt a large increase in guaranteed income and the medical benefits are nowhere near as good, nor the vacation/sick time.

My current employer does not have the 6 month rule on training. Mainly because they only sent me to learn ISA cause we will be required to have it for a product we are purchasing so they needed someone to know it.

impelse

There is a small problem, your boss already know about the job offer, so if you change your mind maybe they will change their mind to about to keep you there. I never bealived about the contar offer.

dynamik

impelse wrote: »

There is a small problem, your boss already know about the job offer, so if you change your mind maybe they will change their mind to about to keep you there. I never bealived about the contar offer.

I've always been curious about how requesting a counter offer affects relationships. It seems like that would raise some red flags with management and come off as more of a threat. I think it makes it clear that you're ready to leave as soon as the price is right, and the other offer you have now just has you teetering on the fence. Even if you get what you're asking for, it seems like it would leave relationships strained. I think I'd simply ask for a raise and make a case as to why I deserve it, and then make a decision based on how they respond.

impelse

dynamik wrote: »

I think I'd simply ask for a raise and make a case as to why I deserve it, and then make a decision based on how they respond.

This is a good idea.

Sepiraph

dynamik wrote: »

I've always been curious about how requesting a counter offer affects relationships. It seems like that would raise some red flags with management and come off as more of a threat. I think it makes it clear that you're ready to leave as soon as the price is right, and the other offer you have now just has you teetering on the fence. Even if you get what you're asking for, it seems like it would leave relationships strained. I think I'd simply ask for a raise and make a case as to why I deserve it, and then make a decision based on how they respond.

Probably as much as you would let it to affect relationships. Even the CEO would leave if the price is right.

Hyper-Me

dynamik wrote: »

I've always been curious about how requesting a counter offer affects relationships. It seems like that would raise some red flags with management and come off as more of a threat. I think it makes it clear that you're ready to leave as soon as the price is right, and the other offer you have now just has you teetering on the fence. Even if you get what you're asking for, it seems like it would leave relationships strained. I think I'd simply ask for a raise and make a case as to why I deserve it, and then make a decision based on how they respond.

This may be the case at a lot of places. But im on the wrong pay scale here and the CIO and my supervisor have admitted several times that i am severely underpaid but because of budget shortfalls anything they send "upstairs" to be approved is getting shot down time and time again.

They essentially begged me to stay in the meeting. As much as I wish it would, praise/pats on the back dont pay mortgages.

impelse

I heard somebody saying that the only way that he got salary increase was changing jobs, he went from $10 to $25 (I do not know how long he stayed in each job).

GAngel

impelse wrote: »

I heard somebody saying that the only way that he got salary increase was changing jobs, he went from $10 to $25 (I do not know how long he stayed in each job).

That wasn't me but it's what I do. I make 50% more than i did 2 years ago because i flipped companies 2x. My salary has increased 100% in the last 5 years as opposed to staying still and increasing 3-5%.

I won't even consider an offer of less than a 15% raise because it's rarely ever worth the time. Being a mercanary is fantastic. After a year I start looking because by that point i've probably mastered everything I will at that job. You're just a number at a company and a company is just a number to me.

RouteThisWay

GAngel wrote: »

That wasn't me but it's what I do. I make 50% more than i did 2 years ago because i flipped companies 2x. My salary has increased 100% in the last 5 years as opposed to staying still and increasing 3-5%.

I won't even consider an offer of less than a 15% raise because it's rarely ever worth the time. Being a mercanary is fantastic. After a year I start looking because by that point i've probably mastered everything I will at that job. You're just a number at a company and a company is just a number to me.

+1 very true.

A company will drop you in a heartbeat these days to save. It's all about the bottom line, and we are ALL replaceable. We are all expendable.

I went from a non-IT job, to an IT job, to a second higher paying IT job. I did this in roughly 2 1/2 years.

I have slightly more than doubled (a little over 100% increase) my income 2 years ago.



The funny thing is, I was all about staying loyal to a company, do what they ask, they'll take care of me. A coworker of mine and I were out on a service call, and he told me the only way to see a larger pay increase is to switch jobs. Our boss was soon fired due to stealing, and my coworker was promoted.

I took his advice, found this new job. When I turned in my resignation to him, he asked me why I was leaving. I simply explained to him that he gave me the motivation to find a higher salary lol. He told me he meant in a longer time frim (5-10 years lol). He tried offering me 3 and then 6 more dollars an hour, however... it was no where near close what my new job was paying lol. Had to turn him down.

Been at this company coming on 2 years in Nov... will start looking again once I knock out my CCNA by this summer.

Anyhow, don't think for one second that you are anything more than a number to a company. Because you aren't. If it came down to it, you would be gone in a heartbeat. They use you for labor, you use them for experience/income. Win/win situation.

impelse

That's true. The only reason why I am still here it is because I have some time to study during my business hours plus study at home. So after I complete my CCNA Security and MCSA 2003 I will be out. I've here for 2 years and I did not get any salary increase.

Hyper-Me

Well I tried to turn down the offer and now they want to up it so we shall see.

This is way more stressful than I ever thought it would be.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Well I tried to turn down the offer and now they want to up it so we shall see.

This is way more stressful than I ever thought it would be.

If they pay you more would you stay?

Hyper-Me

knwminus wrote: »

If they pay you more would you stay?

Sorry I meant I turned down the new job offer, and they turned around and offered me more $.

My current employer is still beating around the bush.

The money is startin to talk louder and louder.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Sorry I meant I turned down the new job offer, and they turned around and offered me more $.

My current employer is still beating around the bush.

The money is startin to talk louder and louder.

That is pretty cool. Is it enough money to compensate for what you would lose though?

impelse

I do not know if you have some support in case that something became wrong, but if I was you I would go to the new possition.

binarysoul

My doctor once told me, "Life is a trade off". You lose something, but you gain something else. The two jobs aren't twin brothers, so it comes as a package.

I too like dynamic am not a big fan of counter offers, but you have a point about praise not paying your bills. Money does matter.

tpatt100

I need to find that article I read somewhere that people who accept counter offers are usually the first laid off next round of lay offs.

tpatt100

This blog makes sense and mentions the WSJ article but here goes:

IEEE-USA Today's Engineer

You've had a good, long run at your current job, but you recently started exploring the job market, just to see what's out there. Low and behold, you stumbled across a position with a company that is everything you've ever wanted — more pay, good management, a challenging product line. So, now you've been sneaking around, taking long lunches to move the interview process along, and after a lot of thought, you've decided to take the offer.
It's a Friday afternoon when you walk into your boss's office and hand in your resignation. You explain that this is a great opportunity — too good to pass up — and announce your departure date.
But you are totally unprepared for what happens next: your manager counter offers.
Confused, you go home, thinking over what your manager said. They want to keep you. They had no idea you were looking. They will offer you more money, a bigger cube and an extra week of vacation, if you'll reconsider.
You start to mull it over. If you stay, you won't have to learn a new company's culture and complexities, you won't have to take unnecessary risks on your success, and you will get more money — for doing exactly what you have been doing all along.
Stop.
Your decision was made long ago, when you first started looking for a new job. You should not reconsider it emotionally. Something motivated you to entertain the idea of leaving. What was it? Regardless, of what your response is, that same reason exists. Staying in your current role will only prolong your ever-looming departure.
If an employer were sincere about retaining you, they would have taken strides to keep you happy long before you handed in your resignation. It's likely that you've been unhappy for some time, and no one bothered to notice it.

An employer counter offers for one reason: fear. Fear of having to re-hire and re-train your replacement. And after all of that pain (statistically it takes a minimum of six to eight weeks to fill a position), it still may not work out. You are a proven performer. You work well with the team. You are a known quantity. Your employer doesn't want the inconvenience of starting all over again. Out of sheer fear, they will counter offer. The problem is, they now know that your loyalty is suspect. Like a jilted lover, the employer will say anything you need to hear to get you back. Or, worse, they will keep you around just long enough to find your replacement.

According to the Wall Street Journal, in more than 90 percent of the cases where people accept counter offers, they end up fired, laid off or at least looking for a new job within six to 12 months.

Hyper-Me

I ended up taking the new job.

My old employer was jerking me along far too long with the string of promises and pats no the back that never turned into anything tangible.

Im walking into a 25% increase + bonuses and while im trading working on some cool stuff, I get to work on other cool stuff that i didnt before (Cisco firewalls, etc)

veritas_libertas

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Sorry I meant I turned down the new job offer, and they turned around and offered me more $.

My current employer is still beating around the bush.

The money is startin to talk louder and louder.

and I would listen to it

Seriously, I would be concerned about staying at your current employer when they know you want to move on. It makes things very uncomfortable.

impelse

You took a good decision.