Can too many certs hurt your job oppurtunities?

Dryst999

Hey guys, i'm new in the IT industry. I graduated with my BBA in M.I.S. in December and started my Systems Analyst job the same week I graduated. It's mostly just a help desk job but I get the opportunity to touch on MANY different things, not just your normal reset password/figure out why my computer is slow blah blah. The company I work for is paying for my certifications and so far in the 2 months i've been here i've knocked out my A+, Net+, Security+ and now starting to study for the MCITP/CCNA.

I have alot of downtime at work ranging from 3-5hrs a day so i'm taking advantage of that by studying as well as 1-2hr's a night when I get home. We have every CBT nugget video available at work so I just use that and order one book off amazon as a secondary study source and so far i'm able to knock out a certification about every 2-3 weeks. It only took me 5 days of studying to get a 880/900 on the Net+ right after I got my A+ lol.

I'm way underpaid right now so i'm using this year as getting all the experience/certs I can on the companies dime so when next year comes i'll be able to get a decent paying job offer. I'm worried though that all the certs I plan on getting may reflect negatively upon me though when i'm on the job hunt come December. I learn really fast and i'm pretty sure I can knock out most of the microsoft certs in 1 or 2 weeks of studying a piece. I'm really interested ALL things IT and I love studying for certs b/c even though I won't use the majority of the things i'm learning i'm still retaining that knowledge to be able to communicate in the IT world.

At my current pace I should have A+,Net+, Security+, CCNA, MCITP: Desktop Admin7, MCITP:Enterprise Admin, and some random certs i'm interested in such as citrix/exchange before years end. I have so much free time at work that i'm confident I can finish all of these before the year is out. Will this turn employers off though since i'll have all these certifications but only one year of experience under my belt? I'm not a paper cert holder, I actually soak the information in.. I just love studying for certs b/c it keeps me productive and goal oriented.

networker050184

If I saw your resume with your amount of experience and all those certs I'd think you probably dumped them. That, or crammed just enough to pass the exam quickly rather than throughly learn and gain experience with the technology. Either way I wouldn't think it was a positive thing.

This is just my opinion though, some may see it as you are just motivated. It all depends on who's looking at the resume I guess.

SrSysAdmin

Depends on the employer I guess. I am not sure how you can honestly say that, without any high level experience with most of those technologies, you could consider yourself more than paper certified. Isn't that, by the very definition of the word, exactly what paper certified means?

I'm not much further in my career than you (3 years in) but that's just my honest take on what you've said...

If I was a cynic I would say "my employer has every CBT video" = you torrented them and "I love to study non-stop because I don't have anything to do at work" = these cert tests are really easy for me since I'm using braindumps.

Mrock4

I'm kind of on the fence with this whole "too many" versus "too few" cert argument.

Should someone highly motivated who is currently in a position unable (for whatever reason) to obtain better experience NOT get certified? That would seem ridiculous..

However, someone who has too many certs definitely could have dumped them. It really depends on the person IMO...if it was me we were talking about, I do not have CCIE experience, but I am preparing for it..is that wrong? Some could say if I pass the CCIE, he was managing a NOC...he must have dumped it somehow..

It goes back and forth. You don't want to appear like all you do night and day is take exams, but if you have a real interest in the material, I say keep moving forward..because sitting still and not learning is lame.

All of that being said, my final point is this: While I don't think you should lay still in your pursuit of education, you undoubtedly should seek some way of gaining more experience if possible. Even if it's just setting a home lab up, something is better than nothing.

At the end of the day, you could simply not put some certs you've attained on your resume if it looks like they have hurt your job outlook with previous potential employers. A technical interview will make the decision whether or not they hurt you, not these forums. Just like the opinions differ greatly here, so will they with employers.

Dryst999

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Depends on the employer I guess. I am not sure how you can honestly say that, without any high level experience with most of those technologies, you could consider yourself more than paper certified. Isn't that, by the very definition of the word, exactly what paper certified means?

I'm not much further in my career than you (3 years in) but that's just my honest take on what you've said...

If I was a cynic I would say "my employer has every CBT video" = you torrented them and "I love to study non-stop because I don't have anything to do at work" = these cert tests are really easy for me since I'm using braindumps.

Or b/c most of them are ridiculously easy? At least the ones i've taken so far have been, the comptia exams are all theory and very little practical application and I just started studying for the windows 7 configuration exam which also appears to be a breeze considering i've been tinkering around with 7 since Beta. I don't use braindumps and that's exactly what i'm worried future employers will think...

The CCNA is the first certification that's been an actual challenge but i'm enjoying setting up my home lab more than anything i've done yet. I guess i'll slow down now that i'm getting into harder certs, the comptia one's may have skewed my perception of how much I can do in a short amount of time since it was all just a rehash over material I went over getting my bachelors.

Hyper-Me

Something im struggling with is that you dont need to cert on every little thing you want to learn.

You can learn Win7 without having 3 MCITPs that cover it, for example.

SrSysAdmin

Dryst999 wrote: »

Or b/c most of them are ridiculously easy? At least the ones i've taken so far have been, the comptia exams are all theory and very little practical application and I just started studying for the windows 7 configuration exam which also appears to be a breeze considering i've been tinkering around with 7 since Beta. I don't use braindumps and that's exactly what i'm worried future employers will think...

The CCNA is the first certification that's been an actual challenge but i'm enjoying setting up my home lab more than anything i've done yet. I guess i'll slow down now that i'm getting into harder certs, the comptia one's may have skewed my perception of how much I can do in a short amount of time since it was all just a rehash over material I went over getting my bachelors.

I didn't say you were dumping, just said that's what a cynic (or some potential employer) would likely think.

As far as the rest goes, I don't see how any of what I said wasn't accurate. Being able to read a book and pass a test without extensive experience = paper cert. Like I said, I don't have a whole lot more experience than you do so I'm in the same boat in terms of having to walk the line of having too few/too many certs based on my experience.

The Windows 7 cert I wouldn't say is paper, most of us in IT have had a pretty good amount of time to play with Windows 7 since there were publicly released versions available last year.

I think you'd be better served at work to get your hands dirty more. If you have 3-5 hours of downtime each day then you need to find more ways to be productive. Find technical projects you can undertake which will benefit the company while increasing your knowledge set without just reading a book. The added bonus of doing this is that you are showing your employer that you are ambitious and hard working, exhibiting a desire to improve the structure of the company while challenging yourself simultaneously.

Netstudent

I think that having a lot of certs and less experience is not necesarily a bad thing when employers/HR people are sifting through resumes to call applicants in. But if you do get the opportunity to interview, you better prove that you have retained all that information and you are very sharp on that information.

If you aren't sharp and confident, and you have all those certs, HUGE turn off IMO, I don;t care if you dumped them or not, strike out. In that case you are representing something that you are not. When you have those certs and less experience, you have something to prove!

networker050184

Netstudent wrote: »

I think that having a lot of certs and less experience is not necesarily a bad thing when employers/HR people are sifting through resumes to call applicants in. But if you do get the opportunity to interview, you better prove that you have retained all that information and you are very sharp on that information.

If you aren't sharp and confident, and you have all those certs, HUGE turn off IMO, I don;t care if you dumped them or not, strike out. In that case you are representing something that you are not. When you have those certs and less experience, you have something to prove!

Long time no post! Glad to see you are still lurking around here

mikej412

Netstudent wrote: »

If you aren't sharp and confident, and you have all those certs, HUGE turn off IMO, I don;t care if you dumped them or not, strike out. In that case you are representing something that you are not. When you have those certs and less experience, you have something to prove!

+1

Ask again in 2 months after you've run out of the "easy certs."

But in 2 more months I'd be more concerned that you're still sitting around in a job and have that much time to study. Hopefully your company is just letting you "fatten up your resume" so that they can bill you out for more money (assuming you're in a billable position and not just internal support).

mikedisd2

Dryst999 wrote: »

Or b/c most of them are ridiculously easy? At least the ones i've taken so far have been, the comptia exams are all theory and very little practical application and I just started studying for the windows 7 configuration exam which also appears to be a breeze considering i've been tinkering around with 7 since Beta. I don't use braindumps and that's exactly what i'm worried future employers will think...

I think your concern is valid. It also sounds like you're addicted to certing. I'd advise get your MCITP, Exchange, CCNA ... and then continue building your skillset on those technologies. The exams won't teach you enough for the real world, and racing through one every few weeks won't give you a comprehensive foundation.

Also keep your certs / experience balanced.

NinjaBoy

Personally, as well as being an IT manager (I do get involved with interviews/candidate selection), I do have to say that as long as the certifications reflect your job role/experience...

For example 1 year on helpdesk, it's nice to see certs like the A+, Network+, MCDST, MCITP: EST. What I would not expect to see are the higher end certs like the MCITP: EA, last time I checked tier 1 and tier 2 staff did not design AD environments, etc... Especially if the exams are taken "every 2 weeks" with no real world experience.

Generally, added to that, two questions will spring to mind:

1. Did this person ****?
2. Regardless of whether or not this person has cheated or not, because this inexperienced person already XYZ qualification, is this person only going use us as a stepping stone and leave us asap?

-Ken

MentholMoose

NinjaBoy wrote: »

For example 1 year on helpdesk, it's nice to see certs like the A+, Network+, MCDST, MCITP: EST. What I would not expect to see are the higher end certs like the MCITP: EA, last time I checked tier 1 and tier 2 staff did not design AD environments, etc... Especially if the exams are taken "every 2 weeks" with no real world experience.

Well put and seems correct from my experience.

eMeS

We all reach a point in our careers where qualifications and experience pile up....a sort of point of diminishing returns in career terms.

One thing to consider here is that you should tailor your resume to any job that you're applying for. Not only would you want to highlight different experience for different jobs, but you might also want to show different certs depending on the job you're applying for.

A resume isn't a litany of unrelated accomplishments. I suspect the issue is not appearing overqualified as much as it is lacking precision and discretion.

There's a huge difference in using your resume to trawl, vs. targeting your resume to a specific fish that you want to catch.

Do you think anyone that hires me to do ISO/IEC 20000-related work knows that I have an MCSA? Do you think they care? Know your audience...omit when and where necessary.

MS

SrSysAdmin

Hey eMeS...we just started going after our CMMI certification, any recommendations?

NetworkingStudent

Dryst999 wrote: »

Hey guys, i'm new in the IT industry. I graduated with my BBA in M.I.S. in December and started my Systems Analyst job the same week I graduated. It's mostly just a help desk job but I get the opportunity to touch on MANY different things, not just your normal reset password/figure out why my computer is slow blah blah. The company I work for is paying for my certifications and so far in the 2 months i've been here i've knocked out my A+, Net+, Security+ and now starting to study for the MCITP/CCNA.

I have alot of downtime at work ranging from 3-5hrs a day so i'm taking advantage of that by studying as well as 1-2hr's a night when I get home. We have every CBT nugget video available at work so I just use that and order one book off amazon as a secondary study source and so far i'm able to knock out a certification about every 2-3 weeks. It only took me 5 days of studying to get a 880/900 on the Net+ right after I got my A+ lol.

I'm way underpaid right now so i'm using this year as getting all the experience/certs I can on the companies dime so when next year comes i'll be able to get a decent paying job offer. I'm worried though that all the certs I plan on getting may reflect negatively upon me though when i'm on the job hunt come December. I learn really fast and i'm pretty sure I can knock out most of the microsoft certs in 1 or 2 weeks of studying a piece. I'm really interested ALL things IT and I love studying for certs b/c even though I won't use the majority of the things i'm learning i'm still retaining that knowledge to be able to communicate in the IT world.

At my current pace I should have A+,Net+, Security+, CCNA, MCITP: Desktop Admin7, MCITP:Enterprise Admin, and some random certs i'm interested in such as citrix/exchange before years end. I have so much free time at work that i'm confident I can finish all of these before the year is out. Will this turn employers off though since i'll have all these certifications but only one year of experience under my belt? I'm not a paper cert holder, I actually soak the information in.. I just love studying for certs b/c it keeps me productive and goal oriented.

I think getting certs shouldn’t be a race to see how many you can get in a set time frame. Don’t get me wrong it’s great to have goals, but you should learn along the way as you attain your certs. Granted everyone learns at their own pace, but I think that’s going by pretty quick to cram all that info. Do you complete any labs for these certs? I believe in that short of time frame that there is no time for labs. The labs help you gain experience, at least they have helped me in my certification studies. Anyways, I direct to this article in certification magazine that tells you what to do after you get your certs.

In my honest opinion: The hardest exam you will have is when you have an interview, and you’re required to regurgitate technical info to validate your certifications.
I?m Certified?Now What? - Certification Magazine

chrisone

a certificate of education is never a negative thing for your resume.

veritas_libertas

eMeS wrote: »

We all reach a point in our careers where qualifications and experience pile up....a sort of point of diminishing returns in career terms.

One thing to consider here is that you should tailor your resume to any job that you're applying for. Not only would you want to highlight different experience for different jobs, but you might also want to show different certs depending on the job you're applying for.

A resume isn't a litany of unrelated accomplishments. I suspect the issue is not appearing overqualified as much as it is lacking precision and discretion.

There's a huge difference in using your resume to trawl, vs. targeting your resume to a specific fish that you want to catch.

+1 I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. I like using certifications as a method to memorize a subject.

Silentsoul

Who say's you have to put all your certs on your resume? I have a few different resumes depending on what I am interviewing for at the time. If you are going for a network job only they are going to care if you are a mcp A+ etc. I tailor my resume for the job posting.

BradleyHU

ummmm....u know you dont have to put all your certs on your resume, dependin on the job...

eMeS

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Hey eMeS...we just started going after our CMMI certification, any recommendations?

I really don't know much about CMMI. You could probably teach me a thing or two...

I'm hearing it more and more these days, so perhaps I'm going to need to head up to CMU for a class or two...

Another arrow for the quiver perhaps....

MS

sides14

You should only put the certs that are relevant to the particular job you are applying for. If your resume is loaded to the max, most employers will either a: think you are just looking for temporary work or b: going to want too much money.

Take college degrees for example. If you want an entry level job, why would you put down that you have an MBA.

Too much can often be the same as too little.

SrSysAdmin

eMeS wrote: »

I really don't know much about CMMI. You could probably teach me a thing or two...

I'm hearing it more and more these days, so perhaps I'm going to need to head up to CMU for a class or two...

Another arrow for the quiver perhaps....

MS

It's pretty much just ISO 20k for Software Development.


CMU = Carnegie Melon? Good school, had some friends that went there.

tpatt100

Hyper-Me wrote: »

Something im struggling with is that you dont need to cert on every little thing you want to learn.

You can learn Win7 without having 3 MCITPs that cover it, for example.

That is what I am doing now. I think you should only get certified in what you currently do and maybe dabble in something else. I think too many people get caught up in the "whole title" rather than being very proficient in what they actually can do and the cert that goes along with it.

I got my MCSE back in the day when I was just desktop support. Now? I would just do the MCSA and be very good at it. Then when I got a job as a sysadmin would work on the MCSE. But I knew people that felt getting half of the certs of the MCSE was a waste so they continued on to completion.

I am scheduling the CISA because I do audits on a regular basis. I am researching the RHCE or RHCT. I just plan on studying after the CISA because I need to know Redhat for work. If I don't take the test oh well, at least I learned what I need to learn to perform my job.

RobertKaucher

Netstudent wrote: »

I think that having a lot of certs and less experience is not necesarily a bad thing when employers/HR people are sifting through resumes to call applicants in. But if you do get the opportunity to interview, you better prove that you have retained all that information and you are very sharp on that information.

If you aren't sharp and confident, and you have all those certs, HUGE turn off IMO, I don;t care if you dumped them or not, strike out. In that case you are representing something that you are not. When you have those certs and less experience, you have something to prove!

This really sums up my opinion on this really well. I've gotten to the point where I need to do review of my MCSE and MCIPT:EA material as I just don't use even 75% of it on a daily basis. There was a time when I knew it cold. I could recount usage options for NTDSUtil and go into detail about AD replication configuration defaults, etc... Now, eesh. I have no clue.

itdaddy

Dryst999

good luck mate but dont worry you wont get a cert every 2-3 weeks after the easy ones are done A+ and Net+ are not that hard but CCNA and CCNP and MCITP are harderrrrrr

it gets harder and you need hands on to understand unless you can read a book and just visualize your skill sets

If you had CCNP and others Id say you had to work at it. you cant just read and get those certs you have to do them and do lots of prtice your rate of speed wont last

eMeS

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

It's pretty much just ISO 20k for Software Development.

No offense, but I actually know enough to know that it's not that. Two different things. There is already an ISO standard for software development, ISO/IEC 12207. CMMI is supposed to be more broadly applicable in terms of all of an organization's processes.

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

CMU = Carnegie Melon? Good school, had some friends that went there.

Yes, the home of CMMI. Cold up there right now. They've got the training locked down and don't really license too many others to deliver any of the training. I've looked at their offerings in the past, but nothing has convinced me to take the leap and attend one of their classes.

MS

SrSysAdmin

eMeS wrote: »

No offense, but I actually know enough to know that it's not that. Two different things. There is already an ISO standard for software development, ISO/IEC 12207. CMMI is supposed to be more broadly applicable in terms of all of an organization's processes.

MS

I don't have a hand in our CMMI certification but I was told by our software development manager that CMMI was ISO 20k for software development.

We're only at level 1 right now so maybe I will be further involved once we get closer to certification. Not saying you are wrong however, just saying that's what was relayed to me.

AlexMR

I've been unable to achieve a pace like OP, and I am a very fast learner. Maybe I started with the "hard ones". Maybe OP is simply way too smart.

Educate yourself. There is not such a thing as too much education. I dont want to bbe caught up working for an employer who believes that nonsense. If you are not learning the material then you will not get the job because you wont be able to even sustain a conversation in the technical interview. A had one with a CCIE and I wasnt even asked questions. We just talked about my study sources and he noticed I had actually read and learned those books and everything went very nicely.

I will be CCNP by the end of the year. If people want to think/call me a paper CCNP because i dont have experience, well, it's their loss. And it's a big one. I like to think of myself as a disruptive technology :P. My performance at the beginning could be a little worse than those who have experience but with just some time and practice, I wiill be well above average, because that is me.

If you feel like that then get the certifications. I think in this field, specially out of university campuses, the "too much certs" or "too much education without experience to back it up" is highly overrated. I would like to know how many Ph.D candidates at Stanford or CalTech have had lots of years of experience, and hhow many of those guys with that huge "problem" of not having experience outside the labs are goiing to have a problem making more than 100k USD/year working for Intel, Cisco, Google, AMD, Nortel or w/e Fortune 50 company...

Just a thought...or a few .

UnixGuy

AlexMR wrote: »

... I would like to know how many Ph.D candidates at Stanford or CalTech have had lots of years of experience, and hhow many of those guys with that huge "problem" of not having experience outside the labs are goiing to have a problem making more than 100k USD/year working for Intel, Cisco, Google, AMD, Nortel or w/e Fortune 50 company...

Just a thought...or a few .

Working in R&D is a different game

Dr_Atomic

Don't spend your time, money, and energy on getting certs. Try and find an IT job in the field your looking to get into. In today's economy, experience is KING. Certs count for little more than nothing. Just look at the job boards for verification of this.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but if you want a job, you're going to need experience. Once you get experience, THEN certs will play a role.

Best wishes.