Can too many certs hurt your job oppurtunities?

Bl8ckr0uter

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

Don't spend your time, money, and energy on getting certs. Try and find an IT job in the field your looking to get into. In today's economy, experience is KING. Certs count for little more than nothing. Just look at the job boards for verification of this.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but if you want a job, you're going to need experience. Once you get experience, THEN certs will play a role.

Best wishes.

So how are you suppose to get exp if the jobs want certs in order to hire you :roll


Everything with balance and you need to get certs and experience usually one will validate the other.

Dr_Atomic

knwminus wrote: »

So how are you suppose to get exp if the jobs want certs in order to hire you :roll

"How are you supposed to get experience?" That's the $10,000 question, isn't it?

True, some jobs wants certs, but they're almost always high-level certs - or lower-level certs with tons of experience demanded. And if they had to choose between a person with lots of experience or a person with lots of certs, experience would win out every time.

My point is that if you're going to invest time and energy, do it in trying to get that IT job instead of going after a cert if you have no paid experience. I see too many people with a fresh cert looking and looking and looking, then get frustrated either at not finding a job or at how they're still woefully underqualified. Then they change career fields entirely.

Bl8ckr0uter

Dr_Atomic wrote: »

"How are you supposed to get experience?" That's the $10,000 question, isn't it?

True, some jobs wants certs, but they're almost always high-level certs - or lower-level certs with tons of experience demanded. And if they had to choose between a person with lots of experience or a person with lots of certs, experience would win out every time.

My point is that if you're going to invest time and energy, do it in trying to get that IT job instead of going after a cert if you have no paid experience. I see too many people with a fresh cert looking and looking and looking, then get frustrated either at not finding a job or at how they're still woefully underqualified. Then they change career fields entirely.

(By the way that wasn't to you it was more to the situation)

Certs can make all the difference. In his particular plan I think he is biting off way more than he will be able to chew:

Dryst999 wrote: »

I'I learn really fast and i'm pretty sure I can knock out most of the microsoft certs in 1 or 2 weeks of studying a piece
At my current pace I should have A+,Net+, Security+, CCNA, MCITP: Desktop Admin7, MCITP:Enterprise Admin, and some random certs i'm interested in such as citrix/exchange before years end.

IMO this seems a bit unrealistic. I mean 2 weeks for the CCNA, hmmm um how about hell no, unless you have a lot of exp and are a good study and have about 6-8 quality hours a day. HOWEVER I will not say don't go after certs entirely. I think CCNA and the MCITP:EDA7 should be doable (I have no idea about the MS) in a year. Some people have said that the higher level certs (CCNP and MCITP:EA) should be done with exp and I agree to an extent. If you are performing these job duties at work then go ahead a go for it but if you are just trying to find you place then maybe scale back a bit (CCENT/MCITP:SA or EDA) and then when a job comes up, go from there (CCNA/MCITP:EA EMA). I believe that you are right about exp though and how it is very important but I think it is also important to promote educational advancement through certification studies (especially in a cert forum ). Certs have there place just like experience and degrees.

AlexMR

When you go to school, you effectively get the equivalent knowledge of probably 12-14CCNAs (the amount of material, I think it should be more) without the concentration that the certifications provide.

I studied a B.Sc. in Civil engineering and now that Im doing the CCNP, I think it is the equivalent of the amount of work/hours that i put in to learn the courses of one of the many fields that my current career involves (math, physics -Ass. of science- Hidraulics, Structural engineering, Roads, Soil Mechanics, geology, etc)

I dont think MCITP, CCNA, CCNP and some others will make you overqualified in any way. If those accreditations prevent you from an interview because they inmediately assume you dumped them, then the certs are also good at preventing you from working in a lame place for lame people. Just learn and you will be great.

Bl8ckr0uter

AlexMR wrote: »

When you go to school, you effectively get the equivalent knowledge of probably 12-14CCNAs (the amount of material, I think it should be more) without the concentration that the certifications provide.

I knew someone was going to bring up this point and to that I will disagree. Most college classes arent just 1 test, there is homework, classwork, and test that make up the grade. How many classes do you think you would have passed if the prof just said ok, here is what we are going to be testing over, here is the text book study and we will have the final (and only ) exam in a few weeks....

AlexMR

knwminus wrote: »

I knew someone was going to bring up this point and to that I will disagree. Most college classes arent just 1 test, there is homework, classwork, and test that make up the grade. How many classes do you think you would have passed if the prof just said ok, here is what we are going to be testing over, here is the text book study and we will have the final (and only ) exam in a few weeks....

I might have misunderstood your point but i think i answered your question. I think MY B.Sc. is +/- the equivalent of 15 CCNAs. Im almost sure it's more in terms of hours of work. Im going to think about it and come up with an answer. ?I have most of the books that cover 100% of the programm i did. I could make a comparisson based exclusively on the amount of pages...it would be vague but the point stands i think.

Bl8ckr0uter

AlexMR wrote: »

I might have misunderstood your point but i think i answered your question. I think MY B.Sc. is +/- the equivalent of 15 CCNAs. Im almost sure it's more in terms of hours of work. Im going to think about it and come up with an answer. ?I have most of the books that cover 100% of the programm i did. I could make a comparisson based exclusively on the amount of pages...it would be vague but the point stands i think.

I don't disagree that you did much more than ccna material in doing your degree. It is just the way that the information is covered.

This guy is obviously going to do self study and what I was saying is what if for one of you mid level college classes the instructor just handed you a book and an outline of the objectives of the class and said the final will be in a month. Most people would cry bloody murder and fail. That was my point that self study != college classes.

Claymoore

knwminus wrote: »

I knew someone was going to bring up this point and to that I will disagree. Most college classes arent just 1 test, there is homework, classwork, and test that make up the grade. How many classes do you think you would have passed if the prof just said ok, here is what we are going to be testing over, here is the text book study and we will have the final (and only ) exam in a few weeks....

Well, I would have passed more classes in a shorter amount of time and saved myself tens of thousands of dollars...

In no way do I consider college the equivalent of 15 CCNAs as you just don't do the equivalent of that much real-world work in college. Let's say the average class meets 3 hours a week. Let's also assume that you are sober enough to study an additional 3 hours a week. For a 16-week semester, thats 96 hours of work, which is 12 days in the real world. 5 of those classes a semester for 15 credit hours * 2 semesters a year * 4 years = 3840 hours, or 96 40-hour weeks, which is less than 2 years of real-world work (assuming no overtime). That's about the amount of experience recommended to pursue the CCNP, without any study or lab time thrown in.

Back to the OP, study the things that interest you and certify if you want an industry accepted way to validate the study effort. You can always leave certs off your resume and just include the highlights that are appropriate to the position for which you are applying.

SrSysAdmin

knwminus wrote: »

I don't disagree that you did much more than ccna material in doing your degree. It is just the way that the information is covered.

This guy is obviously going to do self study and what I was saying is what if for one of you mid level college classes the instructor just handed you a book and an outline of the objectives of the class and said the final will be in a month. Most people would cry bloody murder and fail. That was my point that self study != college classes.

Where did you get your degree from? Many of my classes were exactly like that. You could attend lectures if you wanted to but in the end you were provided with a set of objectives which would be tested at the end of the semester. What you did or how you passed that test was up to for the most part.

Think of it this way:

Lecture = CBT
Textbook = Textbook
Finals = Cert Test

So basically each semester you were required to pass 5-6 cert tests, two semesters a year, over the course of 4 years.

I know personally I needed 128 credits to graduate. 128 credits / 3 credit average class = 42.66 courses, or certs.

On top of that there I had to complete a 75-page senior thesis which took an entire year to complete...I would put this on the level of something similar to one of the high level certs out there.



What do you guys think? I think this seems fair to me.

Bl8ckr0uter

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Where did you get your degree from? Many of my classes were exactly like that. You could attend lectures if you wanted to but in the end you were provided with a set of objectives which would be tested at the end of the semester. What you did or how you passed that test was up to for the most part.

Think of it this way:

Lecture = CBT
Textbook = Textbook
Finals = Cert Test

So basically each semester you were required to pass 5-6 cert tests, two semesters a year, over the course of 4 years.

I know personally I needed 128 credits to graduate. 128 credits / 3 credit average class = 42.66 courses, or certs.

On top of that there I had to complete a 75-page senior thesis which took an entire year to complete...I would put this on the level of something similar to one of the high level certs out there.



What do you guys think? I think this seems fair to me.

I am in a degree program at a local college. So you didn't have homework, classwork, group work, study groups, or anything like that? You just had one exam in the class and that was it? What school did you go to because that sounds odd.

SrSysAdmin

knwminus wrote: »

I am in a degree program at a local college. So you didn't have homework, classwork, group work, study groups, or anything like that? You just had one exam in the class and that was it? What school did you go to because that sounds odd.

There were some classes like that, but for the most part no. Homework and classwork were gone in large part after the lower level classes...once I was in my upperclassmen courses there wasn't any homework that was for a grade. In fact, homework and classwork was mainly something I had in high school. If I had "homework" it was the 10-page paper type rather than the "complete this work showing that you've read the chapter" variety.

Study groups were available, but that was something you did via your own volition...just like you can do study groups to help you pass your cert tests if you so choose.

I would say by the time I was a junior in college, the majority of my classes had between 1 and 3 tests, and that was your entire grade...and I don't think that is out of the realm for normal for any university. Homework is just a way for teachers to make sure you're keeping up on the material. When you're in college teachers no longer care because if you don't work hard and study you aren't going to pass...and if you don't, it doesn't matter or not, you aren't being pushed through the system like in grade school.

Bl8ckr0uter

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

There were some classes like that, but for the most part no. Homework and classwork were gone in large part after the lower level classes...once I was in my upperclassmen courses there wasn't any homework that was for a grade. In fact, homework and classwork was mainly something I had in high school. If I had "homework" it was the 10-page paper type rather than the "complete this work showing that you've read the chapter" variety.

Study groups were available, but that was something you did via your own volition...just like you can do study groups to help you pass your cert tests if you so choose.

I would say by the time I was a junior in college, the majority of my classes had between 1 and 3 tests, and that was your entire grade...and I don't think that is out of the realm for normal for any university. Homework is just a way for teachers to make sure you're keeping up on the material. When you're in college teachers no longer care because if you don't work hard and study you aren't going to pass...and if you don't, it doesn't matter or not, you aren't being pushed through the system like in grade school.

I am in my second year of my A.A.S and I can tell you homework is still a part of my classes (papers and maybe some research assignments). I wouldn't say it is the same as highschool, I do know the difference even if you have 1-3 test in the class you still have more chances than with a CCNA. Also the test don't cost 125/250 a pop.

SrSysAdmin

knwminus wrote: »

I am in my second year of my A.A.S and I can tell you homework is still a part of my classes (papers and maybe some research assignments). I wouldn't say it is the same as highschool, I do know the difference even if you have 1-3 test in the class you still have more chances than with a CCNA. Also the test don't cost 125/250 a pop.

Once you get to a 4-year school and are in the upper level classes you will understand what I'm talking about.

Also, you're right, tests didn't cost 125/250 a pop...they cost a helluva lot more than that, haha. Tuition for me was around $15k per year, and that's a lot cheaper than most schools.

As far as the 1-3 chances thing goes...you can spin that either way. You can look at it as if you have a mid-term and final. If you fail the mid-term, the best you can possibly do in the class is a C and that is a stretch.

It's okay that we don't see eye to eye. Both of us are getting both a degree and certifications. They each have their own merits and work toward achieving the same goal...a higher paying job.

skrpune

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

I would say by the time I was a junior in college, the majority of my classes had between 1 and 3 tests, and that was your entire grade...and I don't think that is out of the realm for normal for any university. Homework is just a way for teachers to make sure you're keeping up on the material. When you're in college teachers no longer care because if you don't work hard and study you aren't going to pass...and if you don't, it doesn't matter or not, you aren't being pushed through the system like in grade school.

then maybe I did my undergrad at an abnormal university, or maybe my current university is abnormal, because outside of the odd class here or there, showing up to class is mandatory and doing homeworks (handed in or not) helps the you learn and helps the prof know if you know what the hell is going on...and therefore perhaps make adjustments to the course of the, um, course. There are SOME prof's out there that don't really care if you show up, but in my experience (got a non-CS BS degree, took some undergrad CS classes for prereq's, and am partway through my masters program), this is not the norm and prof's either will directly give you actual credit for showing up and participating and doing homework, or indirectly they often will be more apt to round your grade up rather than down if you're on the cusp between two letter grades. In all seriousness, doing homework & showing up to class and having an intelligent discussion about a subject goes a long way to showing that you have a clue in the class (or are at least putting in an effort). Perhaps your individual experiences as your college/uni are different, but I've got a few years of student-hood experience at more than one university, and I'm also the wife of a prof at a university, and I've got quite a different perspective.

SrSysAdmin

skrpune wrote: »

then maybe I did my undergrad at an abnormal university, or maybe my current university is abnormal, because outside of the odd class here or there, showing up to class is mandatory and doing homeworks (handed in or not) helps the you learn and helps the prof know if you know what the hell is going on...and therefore perhaps make adjustments to the course of the, um, course. There are SOME prof's out there that don't really care if you show up, but in my experience (got a non-CS BS degree, took some undergrad CS classes for prereq's, and am partway through my masters program), this is not the norm and prof's either will directly give you actual credit for showing up and participating and doing homework, or indirectly they often will be more apt to round your grade up rather than down if you're on the cusp between two letter grades. In all seriousness, doing homework & showing up to class and having an intelligent discussion about a subject goes a long way to showing that you have a clue in the class (or are at least putting in an effort). Perhaps your individual experiences as your college/uni are different, but I've got a few years of student-hood experience at more than one university, and I'm also the wife of a prof at a university, and I've got quite a different perspective.

I guess my experience was just different than yours. Perhaps because I attended a university with around 30,000 students and there was no way you could keep attendance and grade homework in classes with 400+ students. Once I got to the upper level courses there were only 50 or so students per class but I still don't ever remember having homework aside from having to write papers. I did have a couple classes that took attendance, but they were always few and far between. As long as you could read the books and pass the midterms and finals you were good to go in most of my courses.

Not saying any one way is wrong, just different...but I still agree with the previous guy's comment about his college experience being the equivalent of 15 or so CCNAs.

skrpune

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

I guess my experience was just different than yours. Perhaps because I attended a university with around 30,000 students and there was no way you could keep attendance and grade homework in classes with 400+ students. Once I got to the upper level courses there were only 50 or so students per class but I still don't ever remember having homework aside from having to write papers. I did have a couple classes that took attendance, but they were always few and far between. As long as you could read the books and pass the midterms and finals you were good to go in most of my courses.

Not saying any one way is wrong, just different...but I still agree with the previous guy's comment about his college experience being the equivalent of 15 or so CCNAs.

yeah, obviously we have different experiences, but I was replying to make the point that there is another experience at a 4-year university that differs from yours. The way I read your post and your reply to knwminus was that you were saying that, across the board, all 4-year uni's have this type of experience and that anyone in that type of program/school would have this same experience...and I had to disagree because I've been to more than one university and I definitely didn't see what you were seeing.

As for college/uni being equivalent to a certain number of xyz certs, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Some undergrad programs do include certifications as part of the curriculum, but for the most part, certifications and college/uni education are just not comparable.

SrSysAdmin

Yeah, I have no idea how it went from a discussion about too many certs, to a discussion about the like and dislike qualities between degree programs and certs...I just saw a post discussing it and jumped in

white96gt

JrSysAdmin wrote: »

Where did you get your degree from? Many of my classes were exactly like that. You could attend lectures if you wanted to but in the end you were provided with a set of objectives which would be tested at the end of the semester. What you did or how you passed that test was up to for the most part.

Think of it this way:

Lecture = CBT
Textbook = Textbook
Finals = Cert Test

So basically each semester you were required to pass 5-6 cert tests, two semesters a year, over the course of 4 years.

I know personally I needed 128 credits to graduate. 128 credits / 3 credit average class = 42.66 courses, or certs.

On top of that there I had to complete a 75-page senior thesis which took an entire year to complete...I would put this on the level of something similar to one of the high level certs out there.



What do you guys think? I think this seems fair to me.

Like most people are missing is that this is technology and real world hands on in a production environment is worth more than any cert or education. Some great techs and programmers have no degrees but from the years of experience they know a hell of a lot more then someone coming out of college. I think some of you are a bit too cocky with your degrees and need to bring yourselves down a level. If all you had to do was show up at the end of the semester and pass a test then I wish I went there. My experience at the university that I went to was that you had weekly assignments, discussions and labs, plus a midterm and final. The midterm and finals were mostly large research projects. Even after all of that I still know there is a lot more to learn and I especially need more hands on in a real production environment. This post looks like it is turning into a contest between people who think they know everything yet barley have any experience.

SrSysAdmin

white96gt wrote: »

Like most people are missing is that this is technology and real world hands on in a production environment is worth more than any cert or education. Some great techs and programmers have no degrees but from the years of experience they know a hell of a lot more then someone coming out of college. I think some of you are a bit too cocky with your degrees and need to bring yourselves down a level. If all you had to do was show up at the end of the semester and pass a test then I wish I went there. My experience at the university that I went to was that you had weekly assignments, discussions and labs, plus a midterm and final. The midterm and finals were mostly large research projects. Even after all of that I still know there is a lot more to learn and I especially need more hands on in a real production environment. This post looks like it is turning into a contest between people who think they know everything yet barley have any experience.

I didn't say that was all I did, just said that it was possible. If you could learn an entire semester's worth of information without attending class, most classes didn't have an attendance policy.

You should look at how the Ivy League schools are setup. Those are organized in a way that is closer to what I'm saying than what you are. You have a set of objectives you are required to complete but what lectures you attend or how you complete the objectives are up to you.

I don't see anybody devaluing certifications. If I didn't think certs were valuable then I wouldn't be pursuing any of them, nor would I be on this site. If anything, it was the college education that was being devalued by the guy saying certs are more challenging than completing an entire college education.

RouteThisWay

To answer the age old question:

"How do I get experience, if I don't have certs. But how do I get certs, if I don't have experience?"

You just answered your question, in your own question.

You don't have experience. What type of jobs are for the inexperienced? Entry level jobs.

What are most entry level jobs out there? Desktop/help desk. These are primarily your IT job(s) for the first 1-5 years of your career.

So what does Desktop/help desk require? Most looking for A+ and/or Network+. And look, those are entry level certs.

So get one or both. You have your entry level certs. So now you have entry level certs (you don't have a CCIE and an MCITP:EA with 0 experience), which will better qualify you for an entry level job.

The next step is to prove your worth. Work hard. Show that you can do a great job. Show that you only need instruction once. Be a go-getter, team player, etc. If you have downtime, don't waste it surfing ESPN stats, games, etc. I would even be reluctant to use work time to study for certs at first. Your initial 3-6 months there need to be spent proving that you are motivated and dedicated. Use downtime to further show your enthusiasm, complete projects, propose new ideas, etc. This is very important.

You want a reputation of being a "go to guy". Where if your manager asks you to do something, he has 0 worries about if you will do it, or if you don't know how, you will figure out how to do it by a) asking b) google c) phone a friend.

After you have put in the time and developed a strong reputation for being a fantastic candidate, where do you see yourself in 5 years? Look around at the jobs at your company. Find the person who has the type of job you want. Offer your help. Explain to them you have an interest in that type of work, ask what they recommend you do to get there to doing that work (whether it is with that company or not), and once again.. offer to help.

Here is the key: Whatever is asked of you, do it above and beyond expectations. Make an impression. Make them remember you and your work. Because if they get in a crunch, they will be much more willing to ask you to help out with smaller work in the future. And once you are starting help out... guess what you are doing? Getting experience! Which will help back up any mid-level cert you plan to get (CCNA/NP, MCSA, etc etc etc) while working there, to further your career path.

Obviously, this isn't the path that everyone takes. However, it is an approach that I think works. It's what I did. I had to start out in a computer company doing shipping/receiving so... it worked for me. It can work for you

Bl8ckr0uter

RouteThisWay wrote: »

To answer the age old question:

"How do I get experience, if I don't have certs. But how do I get certs, if I don't have experience?"

You just answered your question, in your own question.

You don't have experience. What type of jobs are for the inexperienced? Entry level jobs.

What are most entry level jobs out there? Desktop/help desk. These are primarily your IT job(s) for the first 1-5 years of your career.

So what does Desktop/help desk require? Most looking for A+ and/or Network+. And look, those are entry level certs.

So get one or both. You have your entry level certs. So now you have entry level certs (you don't have a CCIE and an MCITP:EA with 0 experience), which will better qualify you for an entry level job.

The next step is to prove your worth. Work hard. Show that you can do a great job. Show that you only need instruction once. Be a go-getter, team player, etc. If you have downtime, don't waste it surfing ESPN stats, games, etc. I would even be reluctant to use work time to study for certs at first. Your initial 3-6 months there need to be spent proving that you are motivated and dedicated. Use downtime to further show your enthusiasm, complete projects, propose new ideas, etc. This is very important.

You want a reputation of being a "go to guy". Where if your manager asks you to do something, he has 0 worries about if you will do it, or if you don't know how, you will figure out how to do it by a) asking b) google c) phone a friend.

After you have put in the time and developed a strong reputation for being a fantastic candidate, where do you see yourself in 5 years? Look around at the jobs at your company. Find the person who has the type of job you want. Offer your help. Explain to them you have an interest in that type of work, ask what they recommend you do to get there to doing that work (whether it is with that company or not), and once again.. offer to help.

Here is the key: Whatever is asked of you, do it above and beyond expectations. Make an impression. Make them remember you and your work. Because if they get in a crunch, they will be much more willing to ask you to help out with smaller work in the future. And once you are starting help out... guess what you are doing? Getting experience! Which will help back up any mid-level cert you plan to get (CCNA/NP, MCSA, etc etc etc) while working there, to further your career path.

Obviously, this isn't the path that everyone takes. However, it is an approach that I think works. It's what I did. I had to start out in a computer company doing shipping/receiving so... it worked for me. It can work for you

THIS^^^^ is correct.

The only thing I don't agree with is the CCNA being mid level. I think it is entry level. That is it. Rep for you.

RouteThisWay

knwminus wrote: »

THIS^^^^ is correct.

The only thing I don't agree with is the CCNA being mid level. I think it is entry level. That is it. Rep for you.

Yeah, I am not too involved with Cisco certifications. Thats why I listed the /NP as well. Thanks for the rep

AlexMR

I have a few friends who have graduated from top schools and programs. J.Ds, MBAs, M.Ds, and Ph.Ds. JrSysAdmin experience sounds like how things roll in top schools. Generally, the level required by the professors and even the methodology of the school, seems to be below what the general student population achieve by themselves esentially because those top schools admit mostly top performers who dont need a nanny to make them study...

Once again, I think the very important experience is vastly overrated. More than overrated is has to be defined so we all know we are talking about the same thing. As Warren Buffett would put it, most people "dont have 10 years of experience, they have 1 year 10 times". That is the problem with experience and that is why to MANY individuals experience is directly proportional to obsolesce.

In the same manner as experience seems to be overrated and the "1 year ten times" seems to be forgotten or even ignored around here sometimes, the education seems to be thought as the one you get in really bad schools, where you' re not prepare at all to create value and make a difference, and the experience is so mediocre that graduates end up saying one day "did i go to college to end up working on this? If I'd knew I'd saved a few years and thousands of dollars!"

networker050184

AlexMR wrote: »

I have a few friends who have graduated from top schools and programs. J.Ds, MBAs, M.Ds, and Ph.Ds. JrSysAdmin experience sounds like how things roll in top schools. Generally, the level required by the professors and even the methodology of the school, seems to be below what the general student population achieve by themselves esentially because those top schools admit mostly top performers who dont need a nanny to make them study...

Once again, I think the very important experience is vastly overrated. More than overrated is has to be defined so we all know we are talking about the same thing. As Warren Buffett would put it, most people "dont have 10 years of experience, they have 1 year 10 times". That is the problem with experience and that is why to MANY individuals experience is directly proportional to obsolesce.

In the same manner as experience seems to be overrated and the "1 year ten times" seems to be forgotten or even ignored around here sometimes, the education seems to be thought as the one you get in really bad schools, where you' re not prepare at all to create value and make a difference, and the experience is so mediocre that graduates end up saying one day "did i go to college to end up working on this? If I'd knew I'd saved a few years and thousands of dollars!"

The "1 year 10 times" thing only applies to people who sit in one job and rot. I know every year I've worked I've gotten more and more responsibility, and opportunities to grow. If you are doing the same thing year three that you are did in year one, much less for ten years, something is wrong with you. No degree or certification can help you with that kind of lack of motivation.

Quality experience is definitely not over rated.

AlexMR

networker050184 wrote: »

The "1 year 10 times" thing only applies to people who sit in one job and rot. I know every year I've worked I've gotten more and more responsibility, and opportunities to grow. If you are doing the same thing year three that you are did in year one, much less for ten years, something is wrong with you. No degree or certification can help you with that kind of lack of motivation.

Quality experience is definitely not over rated.

Agreed.

mikej412

AlexMR wrote: »

In the same manner as experience seems to be overrated and the "1 year ten times" seems to be forgotten or even ignored around here sometimes

There have been plenty of posts around here about experience -- and we're usually talking about the quality of experience, not necessarily the amount of time someone has spent taking up space at their job.

Someone with 5 years of experience on a help desk supporting Microsoft Word and a brand new CCNA isn't that much more qualified or experienced for an entry level networking job than a new Cisco Network Academy Graduate with no industry experience. But hopefully that help desk person has impressed someone during those 5 years and has the motivation and the people skills to talk themselves into an interview (assuming it's their company offering the job).

mikej412 wrote: »

And as I've said before -- you could possibly get more experience in 6 months with a Business Partner than some people get in their entire career. But I guess I should mention the caveat -- with the technology changes happening as fast as they do now, what you learn and do this year may be irrelevant two years from now (except for a few stodgy low paying companies that upgrade maybe once a decade). That's why the good IT people spend so much of their time keeping up their skills.

mikej412 wrote: »

And I've posted over in the Cisco Forums several times that someone working for a Cisco Business Partner may get more experience in 6 months than someone (like that "career employee" above) gets in their entire career. Working for a Business Partner or VAR type environment where you get to see (and touch) different networks (of different sizes) and work with lots of different equipment with lots of different configurations is vastly different then "managing a firewall for 2 years" that some vendor setup and gets called in to fix.

mikej412 wrote: »

Something like a business partner where you get to do lots of things would be a "Dream Job" since you might get more experience in 6 months than other people get in their entire career.

hex_omega

LOL. Like a broken record....

apd123

Unless you are not like the rest of the humans you are not retaining a good amount of the knowledge. You sound like a motivated guy who is trying to move up so much props for that. When I look at those certs I kind of laugh a little not even really sure why. I guess for me I derive no pleasure out of the certs that aren't a challenge like the CCNA Security I took a few months ago what a waste of two days of my life. Is there an area that you enjoy rather than just grinding through certs to make your signiture longer? Maybe this way you can focus on an area and show a progression from entry level and on. Good luck with whatever you decide.

da802

The hiring manager should be able to determine your level of experience from your resume. With that said, they should be able to see that the certs reflect your ability to absorb new material. If they love certs then they will love you. If they hate certs then they will hate you. There are a great many people that despise certs and the people that earn them. Those people often have a great deal of experience and look down upon others. If they made it to the level of hiring manager, then they can make it a difficult work environment.

jakecitrix

da802 wrote: »

The hiring manager should be able to determine your level of experience from your resume. With that said, they should be able to see that the certs reflect your ability to absorb new material. If they love certs then they will love you. If they hate certs then they will hate you. There are a great many people that despise certs and the people that earn them. Those people often have a great deal of experience and look down upon others. If they made it to the level of hiring manager, then they can make it a difficult work environment.

dIf u have the skills and knowledge to back up the certs its all good bro lol dont matter if u have x50 certs. We r all over certified in i.t if u look da other way.