Why do some people think just getting a Degree gets you a job?

curtisdaley

I wanna know why some people think a BSC or BEng purely on its own gets them a job! When we all know, Experience, CCNA, A+ and all the others, gets you a job!

Hyper-Me

Hmm I don't have a BS, a CCNA or A+ but I have a job. lol

On a serious note, it has a lot to do with how univerisities/colleges and other intistutions advertise their programs/degrees.

They make you think that degree==job when that just isn't the case.

hex_omega

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

chrisone

Because having an education is required by all jobs and a degree is solid proof of having an education.

curtisdaley

Lucky you! Where are you located? How much experience do you have? What do you work as? Network Engineer? Desktop Support Technician?

curtisdaley

An entry level job requiring 2 - 5 years experience, thats not entry level, but all the entry level jobs on the UK and USA sites ask for that!

Hoping to get a year placement between 2 and 3 yrd, to buff up my resume and planning on being CCNA by the time i finish my degree, so my cv doesn't look weak!

eMeS

curtisdaley wrote: »

I wanna know why some people think a BSC or BEng purely on its own gets them a job! When we all know, Experience, CCNA, A+ and all the others, gets you a job!

Because 20 or so years ago it did...

Not sure that I agree with your last statement.

MS

tpatt100

My son is only 6 months old and we already invested over 5K into his 529 college plan. I figured I wanted to take advantage of the current economy and get my sons college fund up there fast so it has 18 years to snow ball.

Anyways hopefully I can teach him from the crap load of mistakes that I made growing up that made me wiser. I will try and teach him that college is important but what you do in college and outside of college are equally important. I worked full time while going to school and made connections that got me my first IT job but would have made way more progress if I had more free time to do the extra activities and clubs that college offers.

Hopefully if I have connections I can get him internships all through college so his resume has more than a BA or BS and Taco Bell part time on it. Or I can assist him through the maze of finding connections and the importance of networking not in IT or Business but the importance of networking in life.

Odds are he will tell me to screw off and make the same dumb mistakes I did when I told my dad to screw off because he said I would be good at computers since I was always doing crap in BASIC on my Texas Instruments as a kid.. Instead I joined the Marines because I thought tanks were kewl.

Hyper-Me

hex_omega wrote: »

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

No, it shouldnt.

What should get you the job is whether or not you possess the knowledge and ability to do the job that the employer is going to pay you to perform.

You dont deserve anything at all for paying a university to teach you some things. You owe it to yourself to make the most of that time spent in class and work hard to make a living, though.

ThePrimetimer

I think the reason is because all through Junior High until Graduation, the teachers pound the idea into your head that you need to go to college to get a good job, then when you do go to college and get the degree and try for the job, the reality sets in that it wasn't just as simple as getting a degree, then getting the job.

This is just my experience. I have only been in my first IT position for a little over a year and a half, but it took a long time for me to get hired by somebody. Reason being? Experience!

I also think that its a complete waste of time to go to college, spend all that money, just to be able to find a job that only pays half of what your education cost you! College is just too damn expensive.

Thanks, I feel a tid bit better!

tpatt100

ThePrimetimer wrote: »

I think the reason is because all through Junior High until Graduation, the teachers pound the idea into your head that you need to go to college to get a good job, then when you do go to college and get the degree and try for the job, the reality sets in that it wasn't just as simple as getting a degree, then getting the job.

This is just my experience. I have only been in my first IT position for a little over a year and a half, but it took a long time for me to get hired by somebody. Reason being? Experience!

I also think that its a complete waste of time to go to college, spend all that money, just to be able to find a job that only pays half of what your education cost you! College is just too damn expensive.

Thanks, I feel a tid bit better!

Don't forget the value that the degree might help you find jobs easier and avoid periods of unemployment as well.

Now I am not saying go to MIT and rack up 100K in student loans to work at Best Buy but spending money for community college then a four year university does have value besides immediate financial gain.

eMeS

tpatt100 wrote: »

Now I am not saying go to MIT and rack up 100K in student loans.

If you can get into MIT you should do it no matter what it costs. The long-term payoff will be orders of magnitude greater than any debt incurred.

Degrees from top tier schools like MIT allow you to participate in a completely different "job market".

MS

mikej412

hex_omega wrote: »

I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs.

That's a GREAT idea!!! Is that how you do the hiring for your business?

The only other place I've heard that does that is the Military -- but you usually finish your degree after you do your 4 years.

mikedisd2

I'm looking at going to university to get a post-grad cert. Turns out that 2x of the classes are just taken from "half of the CCNA". If CCNA has worth in the job market, surely a degree does as well.

I'd like to think that the time, effort and money put into a degree would have intrinsic value in the work sector. As always, it's at the mercy of a HR goon.

eMeS

mikej412 wrote: »

That's a GREAT idea!!! Is that how you do the hiring for your business?

The only other place I've heard that does that is the Military -- but you usually finish your degree after you do your 4 years.

I agree with Mike on this...there's too much variance in the world of degrees. I don't believe that a degree or any credential entitles one to anything.

A job candidate with a degree is good, but it tells you nothing about any specific capabilities that person might have, nor whether they're going to do a good job once they get in the door.

That's what having a good vetting/interviewing process does...

MS

eMeS

tpatt100 wrote: »

doing crap in BASIC on my Texas Instruments as a kid.. l.

Ah, my first exposure to programming as well, unless you count that stupid "BASIC Programming" game for the Atari 2600...

Loved those days of loading code from a cassette deck, only to have it hiccup just before the load was complete...

I got a Boy Scout merit badge for things that I did on that TI-99/4A....

MS

jamesleecoleman

hex_omega wrote: »

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

It discourages me at times too but this is what I really want to do (networking) and the field I really want to be in. It takes alot to put up with the "not meeting the requirements" and looking at companies asking for a long list of stuff for requirements. Then call it "entry level", with low pay. Now I can understand the low pay because it's entry level but I don't understand is why they have a long list. I know its a 'dream' list and I know that they want one person to do the jobs but seriously its crazy. I try to meet the demands of what the jobs in the state want but its also about what I want. Which means that I have to want what they want in order to be motivated to get those cert's or degree's.

Always have a backup plan. I highly suggest learning a different language and not just Spanish, German, or French. Alot of people take those languages at college. I would suggest that you find what the government wants in foreign languages. Speaking different languages can help alot.

blargoe

Why do some people think just getting a Degree gets you a job?

That's what high school guidance counselors have been feeding us for decades. I think some of the perception also comes from people who don't have degrees that also don't have jobs.

rwwest7

Not saying a degree is a waste of time, but anyone with enough time and money can get one. We had a teacher with a Masters Degree in Technology put in a help desk ticket because she couldn't play a DVD movie on her computer, who would've thought that a DVD won't play in an old CD-Rom drive.

crrussell3

hex_omega wrote: »

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

So by your thought process, you would hire someone who has a degree just because they have a degree? What if I told you they cheated their whole way through college, barely passing their classes, constantly on academic probation, etc, etc? This person has their degree, but does that really make them qualified?

Having a degree or a mile long list of certs doesn't mean anything if you can't back up the knowledge and apply it while on the job.

pinkydapimp

tpatt100 wrote: »

Don't forget the value that the degree might help you find jobs easier and avoid periods of unemployment as well.

Now I am not saying go to MIT and rack up 100K in student loans to work at Best Buy but spending money for community college then a four year university does have value besides immediate financial gain.

This.

I think the IT world is changing so quickly, your best option is to open as many doors as possible for yourself. Can you get IT jobs with just certs? Sure. However, the person with same skills and a comp sci degree is going to have a better chance avoiding unemployment and an easier time finding jobs than the person with only certs. They will also have more access to the higher paying positions. Remember, most certs expire. Degrees do not. Saying its a waste of time to get a degree is simply a ridiculous statement.

networker050184

hex_omega wrote: »

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

This is a joke right?

DevilWAH

Ok my degree is not in IT, But I spent 3 years drinking and aprtying to get my degree in Zoology. A degree shows nothing about how well a person can work in practice. All is shows is you know/understand the topics.

In a job you need to make decesions and take on responsibilities. And these kinds of quilities are as important, if not more inportant than the raw knowladege you bring to a company.

People expect to get good jobs out of university, beacause they are told when they start that gettign a degree gets you a good job.

Thats a load of %^*"!!! Getting a degree may get your resume noticed, it may even get you in the door for an interview, but thats where it ends.

Once apon a time when only about 2% of the working population had a degree then yes it was a bigger thing to have. Now having a degree is nothing special, and many people with out a degree have better skills than thoses with.

Like all these skills and quilitifications there is no sure fire way to land a high flying job..

Oh yes there is... By working hard and making sure you know the field you work in inside out. Or at least be always working towards that. And to be prepared to start at te bottom no matter what you "skill" levels are and work you way up.

In my views Degrees / Certs are good for one thing only. To get you noticed in a stack of resumes.

Next you have to make sure that resume then shows an in depth knowlge of some areas and a wide range of knowlage in others.

And lastly you really have those skills to take to an interview, to back up every thing your glowing resume says.

Having just some of this will not get you a good job, you need it all. People are not going to want to pay you big money unless they are sure they will get a good return on it.

veritas_libertas

eMeS wrote: »

If you can get into MIT you should do it no matter what it costs. The long-term payoff will be orders of magnitude greater than any debt incurred.

Degrees from top tier schools like MIT allow you to participate in a completely different "job market".

MS

I completely agree with this. A college education is one of the few times I think it's worth it to go into deep debt. Granted, it better be at a top tier school.

msethk

tpatt100 wrote: »

Hopefully if I have connections I can get him internships all through college so his resume has more than a BA or BS and Taco Bell part time on it.

I had a B.S. degree, many years of Taco Bell experience (my part-time job through high school and college), and IT internships on my resume... Landed me a great job for my area!! Might be a good combination!

nice343

counselors lie to people all the time. They will learn why they get to the real world.

SrSysAdmin

curtisdaley wrote: »

I wanna know why some people think a BSC or BEng purely on its own gets them a job! When we all know, Experience, CCNA, A+ and all the others, gets you a job!

A B.S. alone in Business Management got me my first job in IT without any experience in 2007.

The degree has opened far more doors for me than any certifications have.

Edit: I should probably qualify this statement...the degree got me in the door for the interview with no experience at all. However, I still passed the technical interview because I had been tinkering with computers my whole life, just not in a professional capacity. However, with that said, I still was in position to get the job because of my college degree, not because I had any certifications or experience.

I think like a previous poster stated, a well rounded education is your best bet. A blend of a 4-year degree, certifications, and experience is ideally the minimum that you want in today's business world. I have yet to have a job in IT where anybody was hired that didn't have at least a 4-year degree for people at my age and skillset. I've seen people above me who got into the industry 15+ years ago when the requirements were different. However, it seems now that if you want to get started in the IT industry, having a 4-year degree might as well be a pre-requisite.

BradleyHU

Hyper-Me wrote: »

No, it shouldnt.

What should get you the job is whether or not you possess the knowledge and ability to do the job that the employer is going to pay you to perform.

You dont deserve anything at all for paying a university to teach you some things. You owe it to yourself to make the most of that time spent in class and work hard to make a living, though.

i dont think thats what he's saying. The way i think he meant it is, that by having a degree should be good enough to get you an entry level job without having to have 1-2+ years of experience and certifications, not that you're entitled to one. I remember when I was coming out of undergrad 6 years ago, I thought that just having a degree would be enough to land a job somewhere after i interviewed for the position. I was going out for entry level positions such as QA Analyst, Help Desk, C++ Developer(glad i didnt get that, cuz i hate programming), Technical Analyst, etc...and i was told that i didnt get the job cuz i didnt have enough experience. Um, its an entry level position, the fact that I graduated with my degree proves that even tho I can learn & are willing to learn what is need to do the job. Its not that i felt i deserved the job, but i felt that my education qualified me enough for it. and that the point i think that hex_omega was tryin to make

smg1138

Growing up I was always told you had to go to college to get a good job. Society kind of conditions you to think this I think. In reality though, it really depends on what field you're going into. At least for IT, it seems that getting a degree doesn't guarantee squat. The only job that my degree ever got me was my first job out of college teaching English in Japan. I guess in general people want to think that getting a degree will get them a job because of all the time and studying it takes to earn it. You don't want to think you spent 4 years and thousands of dollars for nothing. There is something to be said about a well rounded education though.

Nuwin

I was able to land a job long before I completed my degree. But a degree alone should not guarantee you anything. I only finished it so I could have it on my resume. I didn't want to be eliminated from contention by an HR person who doesn't understand the field and is only scanning resumes for key words and other requirements dictated to them.

Using myself as an example, I ended with only a 3.8 GPA. This was acceptable to me because it didn't require me to put in a lot of effort. If I would have "tried" I could have gotten a 4.0 easily. It is just a piece of paper to me.

As with most things, you get out of it what you put in. I didn't put a lot in, so I don't expect much in return. I learned more in the first 6 months of my job than I did at any point during school.

blargoe

hex_omega wrote: »

Well it should. I think anyone who puts in the 4 years to get a degree deserves a decent job at a decent payrate, even with little to no experience and/or no certs. Sadly, it's hard to find work for any Comp Sci grad or employers are offering garbage pay for entry level positions. Really discourages me from pursuing a Comp Sci. Maybe in a different fiield(if this IT thing doesn't work out).

I think that provision was included in the Obamacare bill. *ducks*

Seriously though... you're being serious, right? No one is entitled to a good job (however one would define that) just because they have a degree, nor should they be. It's but one piece of the puzzle. A business is going to pay what the market will bear for entry level scrubs with no work or life experience... and currently that is not much. To "deserve" high pay, you have to prove that you're worth it.