I.T Degrees

teksource1984

Fellas,

I see that a lot of I.T jobs require a formal degree in Computer Science, Information Technology, Engineering or M.I.S.

What options do I have to fulfill this goal ? im very leery of pursuing those online degrees from Western Grovenors, ITT, University of Phoenix.

Does one have to get a degree ? what if you don't ? or what if you get a degree in some liberal arts subject but have some experience and great certs.

Just curious to know...........as always your two cents will be highly appreciated.

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RouteThisWay

I am glad you asked this question. It has never been asked before. I don't see any threads like this littered in the last 3 pages.

Short story, you don't NEED one to succeed. But it helps your chances of making vertical movements. Without one, you may hit a glass cieling sooner rather than later.

A degree can only help, not hurt. Think of it as another tool in your arsenal. And many people here use WGU, this board has become like an official advertisement agency and recruiting depot for them... so I assume it is safe.

veritas_libertas

@RouteThisWay: I feel insulted, I don't even like recruiters....

@OP: There are many different options out there for online degrees. There are plenty of State/Public institutions that make there degrees available online. Two good examples are Boston University and Nova Southeastern University. I definitely don't think that WGU is for everyone.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/38144-list-online-technology-degrees-schools-links-thread.html

teksource1984

Yea, but how good is WGU ? I've never heard of them. Is it one of those University of Phoenix type schools ?

veritas_libertas

teksource1984 wrote: »

Yea, but how good is WGU ? I've never heard of them. Is it one of those University of Phoenix type schools ?

What do you mean by this? Your saying the name, but I am not catching where your going.

chmorin

teksource1984 wrote: »

Yea, but how good is WGU ? I've never heard of them. Is it one of those University of Phoenix type schools ?

(I'm a little mad because while I was writing this post the first time, chrome decided to have the process crash. Fantastic. Let's start again.)

WGU is a unique concept and should not be compared with any other university, regardless of what 'type of school' it is. However, I am leaving University of Phoenix for WGU. That should give you a little bit of an answer.

What WGU provides is an environment that allows an individual to learn at the pace that is best for them as their life proceeds. It enables one to pursue other goals while attending college at your pace. If your view of online college is a negative one, consider what someone above this reply had said.

There are plenty of State/Public institutions that make there degrees available online. Two good examples are Boston University and Nova Southeastern University.

Many colleges offer online classes as part of their curriculum as options for students. Some find that this method allows the individual to show more initiative in learning the resources themselves, and this is seen as a good thing. If you are this type of character, an online college may be right for you. If not, research accordingly.

If you base all online learning off of University of Phoenix, which is America's more popular college by the way, you will see an expensive avenue for virtual classrooms and participation. They focus much of their stuff on getting money from you, as they are a "For Profit" institution. WGU, is non-profit. This should help you understand that they try to help their students, not drain money out of them.

Not to bash UPX though, it has allowed many people to have the ability to get an online degree.

Before you go making assumptions about online colleges and WGU specifically, I suggest doing some research on the facts. A thread above this one has MANY posts about the college, and a simple google search for WGU gives you more resources.
Let me google that for you

On the topic of college education: Higher education in any form can only benefit you as an individual. If you never get a degree, you may find you wish you had one. If you get a degree, you will likely never wish you hadn't gotten one.

importantbrian

I personally chose the online program at Boston University for my MS. I start in May so I don't have any reflections on the course work yet, but I chose it over the WGU and UofP type schools for several reasons.

The first is that my father in law was in the field on the database side of things and he is now the director of online learning at a major university, and in his opinion BU offered the best online program. He even recommended it over the program at his school which said a lot to me. I also did a lot of research online to see what the perception of the program seemed to be and I could find next to nothing negative about it. Incidentally, he got his Ph.D. from Nova Southeastern, and for what he was doing it was a good program.

The second thing was that I would also like to get into the database world and BU was one of the only online programs to have a database management and business intelligence concentration.

The third was that I wanted to have a degree from a brick and mortar. Don't get me wrong there are many fine online schools, but from what I have seen the alumni network at these schools tends to be younger and not as well established. It also tends to be less cohesive, because the people did not share the same kind of experience that someone who attends a B&M on campus does. Many people underestimate the value of an Alumni network, but it can be huge in landing jobs. Many people like to have a "name" school on their resume because it gets you past an HR filter, but I think the best thing about "name" schools is the alumni network.

The third is that I do think overall school ranking matters. Most people will tell you that your degree is what you make of it, and I think that this is true whether you personally get anything out of the program is up to you. Going to Harvard doesn't mean you will learn more than someone who went to Middle Tennessee State University (my undergrad Alma Mater), but with a higher ranking you tend to get a higher level of student. You end up with people who are highly ambitious and are more likely to end up as CIOs and CEOs one day. Which brings us back to the quality of the Alumni network. A Harvard MBA doesn't necessarily land a V.P. gig at Goldman Sachs because he went to Harvard, but because the CFO, CIO, CEO, (insert other any other C level exec here) that is hiring him went to Harvard too. So to me a higher level school that awards the same degree to its online students that it does to its on campus students is important.

Those are just some of the reasons I chose the BU program, and it is just my opinion. Many people will disagree with me, and I would listen to their opinions as well and decide for yourself which is better, because at the end of the day everyone needs something different from their education. That is why there are so many different options.

veritas_libertas

importantbrian wrote: »

I personally chose the online program at Boston University for my MS. I start in May so I don't have any reflections on the course work yet, but I chose it over the WGU and UofP type schools for several reasons.

The first is that my father in law was in the field on the database side of things and he is now the director of online learning at a major university, and in his opinion BU offered the best online program. He even recommended it over the program at his school which said a lot to me. I also did a lot of research online to see what the perception of the program seemed to be and I could find next to nothing negative about it. Incidentally, he got his Ph.D. from Nova Southeastern, and for what he was doing it was a good program.

I am going to have to stay in touch with about BU as you go along. I am considering it for MS after I finish up at WGU.

sthompson86

teksource1984 wrote: »

Fellas,

I see that a lot of I.T jobs require a formal degree in Computer Science, Information Technology, Engineering or M.I.S.

In regards the above, I have wondered how a WGU Bachelor in networks compare to your common degrees CIS and CS if the job listing was mandating those 2 common degrees.

For instance, a networking degree that requires CIS or CS which are prettty much programing classes, and have little to do with networking. Lets say one submitted his or her resume with WGU Bachelor in Networking, how would that look? In my opinion it is a more worthy degree for a networking position. Nonetheless, I know its up to the person doing the hiring but yea, what do you guys think?

chmorin

sthompson86 wrote: »

In regards the above, I have wondered how a WGU Bachelor in networks compare to your common degrees CIS and CS if the job listing was mandating those 2 common degrees.

For instance, a networking degree that requires CIS or CS which are prettty much programing classes, and have little to do with networking. Lets say one submitted his or her resume with WGU Bachelor in Networking, how would that look? In my opinion it is a more worthy degree for a networking position. Nonetheless, I know its up to the person doing the hiring but yea, what do you guys think?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Bottom line is you need to be what the company wants. If they fish through their resumes for the CIS degree, and you don't have one, you're out of the pool even IF the HR rep who made the listing is retarded and does not know what to require of a position.

From what I have seen, many job openings have more generic BS requirements (BS in related field).

sthompson86

chmorin wrote: »

Bottom line is you need to be what the company wants.

Right on yea, I just do not want to go to school for Programming, and that is why I have considered the WGU networking program. But yea, like you say you gota be what the company wants.

importantbrian

veritas_libertas wrote: »

I am going to have to stay in touch with about BU as you go along. I am considering it for MS after I finish up at WGU.

Yeah, I will try and remember to PM you once I get started in the classes, or maybe I will start some kind of progress thread. I will say based on the application that one thing to keep in mind while you are at WGU is to take some math and a basic programing class. I'm not sure what the requirements at WGU are as far as that goes, but both are a prereq for BU. If you have any questions about it now or when you get closer to deciding defiantly let me know.

qwertyiop

importantbrian wrote: »

Yeah, I will try and remember to PM you once I get started in the classes, or maybe I will start some kind of progress thread. I will say based on the application that one thing to keep in mind while you are at WGU is to take some math and a basic programing class. I'm not sure what the requirements at WGU are as far as that goes, but both are a prereq for BU. If you have any questions about it now or when you get closer to deciding defiantly let me know.

I hope to finish my WGU degree by July and am also considering BU for my masters. How was the application process and what did they require of you?

importantbrian

qwertyiop wrote: »

I hope to finish my WGU degree by July and am also considering BU for my masters. How was the application process and what did they require of you?

The application is not bad at all. It's mostly your standard fair. You have to send transcripts from all colleges attended, submit your resume, you need 3 letters of recommendation, and you have to write a statement of purpose which is basically 500-1000 words on why you would like to pursue a grad degree from BU and why you are qualified. You don't need to take the GRE which is nice. They are very quick answering questions and getting back to you on admissions. I completed my application about two weeks ago and was notified of my acceptance last week so all in all the turn around is good. I've been very pleased with my experience so far. I went to a big state school for my undergrad, and the people at BU have been much easier to deal with than the admissions people for my undergrad were.

pinkydapimp

sthompson86 wrote: »

Right on yea, I just do not want to go to school for Programming, and that is why I have considered the WGU networking program. But yea, like you say you gota be what the company wants.

Just because you study computer science doesnt mean you have to program. You will take some programing classes. However, you will also take many other classes that will build a foundation of knowledge about computers. The programming courses are nice because it helps you to think logically which will help you in any facet of IT. In addition, you gain knowledge about how software is written and how it interacts with a computers OS. When i did my Computer science program i had NO intention of ever being a programmer.

BradleyHU

pinkydapimp wrote: »

Just because you study computer science doesnt mean you have to program. You will take some programing classes. However, you will also take many other classes that will build a foundation of knowledge about computers. The programming courses are nice because it helps you to think logically which will help you in any facet of IT. In addition, you gain knowledge about how software is written and how it interacts with a computers OS. When i did my Computer science program i had NO intention of ever being a programmer.

same here....I did CIS, but the way it is structured @ my alma mater, cis & csc take a majority of the same classes....cis just take business classes, and csc has science & csc electives...but we both take OOP 1 & 2, Data Structures 1 & 2, Discrete Structures, Computer Architecture 1 & 2, OS1, Prog Lang & Software Engineer 1 & 2....

and yeah, i had NO intentions of being a soft-eng, programmer or developer...My intentions was to do DBA, QA Analyst or Systems/Biz Analyst upon graduation 6 yrs ago...entry level of course...fast forward 6 yrs later and i'm doin desktop support/servers...

vCole

phoeneous wrote: »

Whats wrong with programming?

I don't think he was saying there's anything wrong with it.

Some just do not have a passion for it

BradleyHU

FadeToBright wrote: »

I don't think he was saying there's anything wrong with it.

Some just do not have a passion for it

but it can be taken that the way dude made his statement is that you go get a CSC or CIS degree if you want to do programming....when its much more that you can do with those degrees.

Bl8ckr0uter

phoeneous wrote: »

Private Sub Form_Load()

MsgBox "I know, I'm just being facetious this morning", vbInformation,

But at some point in their career, I think every IT guy has to do some form of programming. Its good for the mind, body, and soul.

End Sub

Win.

I agree with you. I think learning programming is helpful to all IT pros. Understanding logic and even simple "if thens" is helpful when dealing with many different things, from database work to network engineering (acls).

RouteThisWay

Although it isn't programming per se, scripting with PowerShell has become a very powerful tool for Windows system admins. I enjoy that thoroughly, even though I am not much of a programming fan.

nash0924

pinkydapimp wrote: »

Just because you study computer science doesnt mean you have to program. You will take some programing classes. However, you will also take many other classes that will build a foundation of knowledge about computers. The programming courses are nice because it helps you to think logically which will help you in any facet of IT. In addition, you gain knowledge about how software is written and how it interacts with a computers OS. When i did my Computer science program i had NO intention of ever being a programmer.

I agree 100%.

brad-

I finished my CIS degree a few years back, and when I started, it was my first introduction to the computing world. Since it was a 'regular' university, the curriculum was balanced all over the place. Only 1/3 of my total hours were 'computer' classes. Of those 45 or so hours, they were programming and database type classes. A little project management, interface design, web design, web administration, and the rest programming and database.

I hated it at the time. HATED IT. I stuck it out though and finished. I knew I would not want to be a programmer, but several years later, that experience really has been beneficial to me as someone who does a little of everything. Whether making batch scripts for this or that or thinking logically through a programming problem to find a solution in the database, it all helped.

That said, I wouldnt have gotten either tech job i've had without the college. Like everyone else has said though, you dont NEED the degree, but it really helps open doors at those few crucial times.

By no means did the degree make me smarter at all, it is just a bar to measure people by. It isnt really fair or accurate, but its the best we have i guess.

hex_omega

phoeneous wrote: »

Private Sub Form_Load()

MsgBox "I know, I'm just being facetious this morning", vbInformation,

But at some point in their career, I think every IT guy has to do some form of programming. Its good for the mind, body, and soul.

End Sub

The soul? Ehhh....good for raping the soul, I guess.

curtisdaley

Computer Science Degree's are marketed towards people who wanna be Programmers, as these Degree mainly contain that material, i'm doing a Computer Networks Bachelor of Engineering at University, its focus is on Programming the whole entire 3 years.

In the first year, which i'm finishing as we speak, i have a module called Procedural & Object Oriented Programming, where i've studied the C Programming Language and also the Java Language.

I've studied another one called Problem Solving & Essential Skills for Computer Scientists, which teach us how to think out a problem, break it down into smaller steps, decide which control statements are needed, if statements, if & else/else if statements, while/for and do while loops and so on. In that module i've had to read a book called "How To Think Like A Programmer", thoose two modules are closely related, the two mentioned above, seeing as one is teaching how i should solve my programming problems and the other teaches me how to program.

My third module i've studied, is called Information Systems and i've studied SQL/MySQL, HTML, CSS, JavaServerPages/JSTL and also JavaScript!

Information Systems is linked to the other ones as, it involved Programming, namely Java!

The fourth is called Computer Systems and Networks and is the only one i truly love, get to study CCNA1 & 2 Exploration Material for the Networks part, which is basically revision of what I did over the last year at High School, which i'm nailing hard again, in the Computer Systems I get to do Embedded C Programming!

Next year i have study Computer and Data Networks : CCNA3 & 4 Exploration
C++ Programming!

In third year i have to do Ada, so my Degree is Programming oriented all 3 years, only good side is i get to do CCNA1 - 4, some Security Stuff and Firewalls stuff during the 3 years!

Wished i had not gone to Uni and had stayed at home and just dont A+, CCNA, JNCIA, MCSA and so on!

Though i'm told a Degree gets you a good job, got a good work placement set up during 2 and 3 year, so i'm happy!

Speak soon peoples!

earweed

hex_omega wrote: »

The soul? Ehhh....good for raping the soul, I guess.

Actually most good IT guys Admins, networkers, DB'ers etc. will encounter some type of programming somewhere. It may only be in the form of a few scripts here and there or it may be on a larger scale. Even the Cisco networking guys are actually doing a lot of programming, yet they don't look at it as programming. There is all of the cli being done and that is just programming. Programming is just telling the machine what to do.
If you're working with a straight programming language you're still just interacting with the machine and telling it what to do. I worked with assembler languages back in the 80's and was just working with the dumbest of dumb machines and learned a lot about binary math such as how it multiplies 2 numbers. It's all about knowing what you're working with and dealing with the strengths and weaknesses of the machine, programming language, or OS.
Don't forget that when you set a GPO on a server, you ARE programming but just in an easier method.

ciscog33k

If you want to be a programmer, a CS degree is essential imo. While you can learn a lot of stuff on your own, working with others on team projects and having guidance from a professor early on will help you form good habits. You'll also be forced to learn about stuff you probably wouldn't cover on your own unless you're a serious nerd, such as assembly, compilers, programming OSes and device drivers, etc.

That said, once i decided to pursue an IT career, I entered a classics program. I did that because i knew I didn't want to be a programmer and I was already working a job that would give me the experience i needed to kick-start my career. I had learned programming on my own when i was a kid and i was already very good with computers, having helped out the sysadmin at my school and at another company as a summer job. I also felt that most IT-related degrees were fairly worthless in terms of content, and that certification material was far more useful for the actual work involved in a career. The few computer courses I had taken at university made me want to slash my wrists. I took a MIS course that had absolutely nothing of value in it. My opinion is to either do a CS degree or something else entirely. I think CS hold major value, even to a network/SA. Being able to script automation is an important skill a lot of people don't have, so they end up doing repetitive tasks manually. No offense to anyone, but I think MIS degrees are worthless and I don't htink i'd ever give preference to someone that held one vs a random degree. I'd look at experience and certs. Classics was equally worthless to me but it's a subject I absolutely love and it was something I could enjoy (as opposed to just tolerate) doing while working 50-60hrs/wk, and I think it makes me a more well-rounded person, which used to be a key part of going to university before it turned in to a glorified trade school.

I definitely agree that you want SOME sort of degree. A University degree is like a high school degree of days past. You don't want to be limited by not having it.

Devilsbane

Knowing programming can't hurt. You might not ever really use a language, but the concepts can be applied to writing batch files which come in very handy when you are told that you need to create 50 user accounts with the exact same permissions.

SephStorm

I just don't think programming will ever truly attract me.

I can write basic HTML. I can write some basic JS. Thats where my desire to learn programming ends.

Now, being that I want to work in the Pentesting field... I'm going to have a rough patch when it comes time for that. I would much rather not have my future hanging on it as part of my degree, I would rather apprentice up with someone for a month learning it.

Later down the road.

Much later.

sidsanders

while cs has dev work in it for sure, there can be theoretical tracks to it (and lots o math/sci -- schools handle this diff). you dont have to do compiler design/os design if you have other options allowed if you want to keep dev aspects minimal. much of cs (for me anyways) was designed around concepts and theory. you got shown diff langs, however those were at lower levels.

roughest class i took was: cmsc 452 Elementary Theory of Computation

at the time i thought computers could do anything. this class i struggled to believe for a bit... not sure how this class may have been offered at another school...