Military Future Questions and Civilian Jobs(Thanks in Advance)!

Hey everyone, I had a quick question in regards to my future advancement of my early career.

I've decided on two options,

1.) Army National Guard as a 25N Nodal Network Systems Maintainer and possibly going to a technical college to work towards CCNA and CCNP.

2.) Option Number #1 plus Western Governs University for a B.A in Network Security.

My Goals: To use the guard as a route to discipline and to help accumulate work experience.

To be a network systems administrator OR desktop support technician (Although, due to salary and the population of market I would be focused more towards networking)

Questions:

1.) Would the experience I get from the guard be transferable to the civilian sector (Would I be able to accumulate it as work experience on my resume)? If so, how valuable would you say it is?

2.) Will the Secret Security Clearance help a lot? In terms of how valuable it is.

3.) Is there a possible better route considering my goal objectives, and am I heading in the right direction in your perspective?

and... Thankyou for your help and insight!
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Comments

  • BokehBokeh Member Posts: 1,636 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Yes the security clearance will be worth some money on the outside IF you work in an area that the job requires it.

    Most military training accompanied with civilian college/certifications will help you in the long run.
  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Hey everyone, I had a quick question in regards to my future advancement of my early career.

    I've decided on two options,

    1.) Army National Guard as a 25N Nodal Network Systems Maintainer and possibly going to a technical college to work towards CCNA and CCNP.

    2.) Option Number #1 plus Western Governs University for a B.A in Network Security.

    My Goals: To use the guard as a route to discipline and to help accumulate work experience.

    To be a network systems administrator OR desktop support technician (Although, due to salary and the population of market I would be focused more towards networking)

    Questions:

    1.) Would the experience I get from the guard be transferable to the civilian sector (Would I be able to accumulate it as work experience on my resume)? If so, how valuable would you say it is?

    2.) Will the Secret Security Clearance help a lot? In terms of how valuable it is.

    3.) Is there a possible better route considering my goal objectives, and am I heading in the right direction in your perspective?

    and... Thankyou for your help and insight!

    Does the Army National Guard option incur the chance of being posted overseas?
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    I think its a great idea. I was a 25N in the military and it really helped me once I got out. I was active duty though, so I got a lot more hands on with the stuff then someone in the Guard would.

    As Bokeh pointed out the clearance can help you depending on the role you are going for. If you aren't shooting for cleared positions, it really isn't going to make much difference.

    My question is why not go for options 1 and 2? I'd work on the CCNA while you go to school. Once you get a nice job using those CCNA skills then you can start working towards the CCNP.

    Good luck!
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Turgon wrote: »
    Does the Army National Guard option incur the chance of being posted overseas?


    You wouldn't get a permanent assignment over seas, but the Guard does deploy to Iraq/Afghanistan.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    You wouldn't get a permanent assignment over seas, but the Guard does deploy to Iraq/Afghanistan.

    There are a myriad of roles available overseas but even if you are not on the frontline serving there are also attendant risks when you are deployed. I guess the OPs acceptance of a possible posting overseas with risk of death, serious injury and witnessing wounds incured by friends might be worth thinking about aside from the career benefits. Also your mother worrying about you.
  • earweedearweed Member Posts: 5,192 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan. If you do go to a CC while in the guard you may want to go ahead and work on your A+ too. If you're getting your CCNA go ahead and get the CCNA:Security too as you'll have that done before starting WGU.
    You could even start WGU while in the guard and just get these certs while attending WGU. I believe there are quite a few WGU students who are active duty.
    As for the security clearance there are a lot of jobs out there which require it and they pay pretty good. You may have to relocate though.
    Good luck
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
  • themagiconethemagicone Member Posts: 674
    I'm not sure if you have other family or friends in the military, but if you do I would talk to them in great detail before making that decision. It isn't a question if, but when you will go to Iraq or elsewhere. I'll just add that you might get a mos of "xxxx" but in the military what you can do depends on rank. You might know how to plug the ethernet cable into the computer and set the address but that is above your MOS level and rank.
    Courses Completed at WGU: JIT2, LYT2, TFT2, SJT2, BFC2, TGT2, FXT2
    Courses Required For Me To Graduate WGU in MS: IT Network Managment: MCT2, LZT2, MBT1, MDT2, MNT2
    CU Done this term: 16 Total CU Done: 19
    Currently working on: Nothing Graduation Goal: 5/2013
  • notextnotext Member Posts: 10 ■□□□□□□□□□
    I am currently on active duty as a 25N(and 25S as well). I am currently deployed to Iraq and in fact I am looking at my JNNs snmp console and my STTs netmac monitor and control as I'm typing this out icon_wink.gif.

    They teach you a ton of valuable information in the 25N course. In case you are not fully aware what makes up a JNN, let me give a slightly clearer picture. Of course I won't be able to talk about the comsec devices and such.

    * Cisco 3825 routers. You will learn to configure it from a blank slate. They will teach you most of what you need for the CCNA. You learn some things that are not covered by the CCNA such as tunneling, Qos, etc.

    * Cisco 3560G and 2811 switches. Same deal with them.

    * Cisco VG224. Voice Gateway. You learn it but will probably never use it and forget it all.

    * Cisco UCM 7800. Call manager. You will learn to configure it from a blank settings.

    * Cisco ASA 5510. This wasn't in the JNN when I went through the course so I am not sure what you learn on it. We had netscreen firewall and an IDS when I went through, they are gone now.

    * Promina NX-1000. Also not in when I went through. We used the Promina 400. The same but different. You will bring it up from a completely blank database. Its a good device to learn.

    * Citrix WanScaler. Not in when I went through. Replaced the TurboIP we had. Not sure how much they teach on it.

    * Redcom Slice. PBX. We had a different redcom pbx when I went through the but it is same in function. Learn to bring it up from a blank slate.

    * There are other items you will learn bits about like FlexMux, GPS, Generator, etc. You will learn to use them but not much else, or that is how it was when I went through.

    It is a great opprotunity to get experience in networking and working with cisco products. One of the more valuable parts is the voice side. You will learn to setup the entire voice side UCM, PBX, VoIP, VTC and even POTS. This is something that is tough to get started with in the civilian world. Everyone wants to deploy it and they all want experience and not just certs.

    You will also get at least a Secret clearance. Depending on the unit it may be higher. Not sure how the GI BIll works for Guard but for Active, the new Post 9/11 GI Bill is freaking fantastic. In the guard you do get access to the books 24/7 site and army elearning, thefree skillsoft site. The site has CBTs of just about every cert(CCNA/NP/VP, MCITP/MCSE, CompTIA, SCCP/CISSP, LPI, Sun, Oracle, etc).

    If you would like to know any more, just let me know.
  • btowntechbtowntech Member Posts: 198
    The thing you need to remember about the Army National Guard is that there needs to be a unit close to where you live that supports that MOS. Plus they will have to have an open slot for that MOS.

    I joined the National Guard unit in the town were I lived when I was 17 and got to spend six years in a field artillery unit as a 13E and 13D. Nothing like puting rounds down range. I also carried a security clearance which comes in handy now since I work for a military contractor and didn't have any problems attaining a security clearance again.

    Just do your research and make sure you get what you want before you sign the papers.
    BS - Information Technology; AAS - Electro-Mechanical Engineering
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    Turgon wrote: »
    Does the Army National Guard option incur the chance of being posted overseas?

    Yes, all branches occur overseas from what I've read and heard.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    I think its a great idea. I was a 25N in the military and it really helped me once I got out. I was active duty though, so I got a lot more hands on with the stuff then someone in the Guard would.

    As Bokeh pointed out the clearance can help you depending on the role you are going for. If you aren't shooting for cleared positions, it really isn't going to make much difference.

    My question is why not go for options 1 and 2? I'd work on the CCNA while you go to school. Once you get a nice job using those CCNA skills then you can start working towards the CCNP.

    Good luck!

    Yeah that's true! There are a lot of deployed status's over in Iraq now that take online courses :D, thanks for the help.

    25N Seems right to me, my parents aren't for the army but I just had a terrible experience with a recruiter from the Navy. And I mean it was terrible...
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    earweed wrote: »
    Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan. If you do go to a CC while in the guard you may want to go ahead and work on your A+ too. If you're getting your CCNA go ahead and get the CCNA:Security too as you'll have that done before starting WGU.
    You could even start WGU while in the guard and just get these certs while attending WGU. I believe there are quite a few WGU students who are active duty.
    As for the security clearance there are a lot of jobs out there which require it and they pay pretty good. You may have to relocate though.
    Good luck

    Yeah I was thinking of going to the college by my house they have these available.

    Questions: Would it be worth going for certificates or degrees, considering everything is payed for?
    Certificate Program
    Cisco Network Specialist CCNA
    Cisco Specialist CCNP
    Computer Service and Electronics Technician
    Computer Simulation/Game Developer
    Cyber Crime Specialist
    Data Center Specialist
    Information Security Specialist
    Internet Specialist - Web Site Design
    Java Programmer
    Linux/Unix Systems Administrator
    Network Administrator
    PC Repair and Network Technician

    Diploma Program
    Computer Programming
    Computer Simulation/Game Developer
    Information Security Specialist
    Internet Specialist - Web Site Design
    Networking Specialist

    Degree Program
    Computer Programming
    Computer Simulation/Game Developer
    Information Security Specialist
    Internet Specialist - Web Site Design
    Networking Specialist

    Thanks again!
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    notext wrote: »
    I am currently on active duty as a 25N(and 25S as well). I am currently deployed to Iraq and in fact I am looking at my JNNs snmp console and my STTs netmac monitor and control as I'm typing this out icon_wink.gif.

    They teach you a ton of valuable information in the 25N course. In case you are not fully aware what makes up a JNN, let me give a slightly clearer picture. Of course I won't be able to talk about the comsec devices and such.

    * Cisco 3825 routers. You will learn to configure it from a blank slate. They will teach you most of what you need for the CCNA. You learn some things that are not covered by the CCNA such as tunneling, Qos, etc.

    * Cisco 3560G and 2811 switches. Same deal with them.

    * Cisco VG224. Voice Gateway. You learn it but will probably never use it and forget it all.

    * Cisco UCM 7800. Call manager. You will learn to configure it from a blank settings.

    * Cisco ASA 5510. This wasn't in the JNN when I went through the course so I am not sure what you learn on it. We had netscreen firewall and an IDS when I went through, they are gone now.

    * Promina NX-1000. Also not in when I went through. We used the Promina 400. The same but different. You will bring it up from a completely blank database. Its a good device to learn.

    * Citrix WanScaler. Not in when I went through. Replaced the TurboIP we had. Not sure how much they teach on it.

    * Redcom Slice. PBX. We had a different redcom pbx when I went through the but it is same in function. Learn to bring it up from a blank slate.

    * There are other items you will learn bits about like FlexMux, GPS, Generator, etc. You will learn to use them but not much else, or that is how it was when I went through.

    It is a great opprotunity to get experience in networking and working with cisco products. One of the more valuable parts is the voice side. You will learn to setup the entire voice side UCM, PBX, VoIP, VTC and even POTS. This is something that is tough to get started with in the civilian world. Everyone wants to deploy it and they all want experience and not just certs.

    You will also get at least a Secret clearance. Depending on the unit it may be higher. Not sure how the GI BIll works for Guard but for Active, the new Post 9/11 GI Bill is freaking fantastic. In the guard you do get access to the books 24/7 site and army elearning, thefree skillsoft site. The site has CBTs of just about every cert(CCNA/NP/VP, MCITP/MCSE, CompTIA, SCCP/CISSP, LPI, Sun, Oracle, etc).

    If you would like to know any more, just let me know.

    Do you have a lot of time to study even though you are on active duty, my objective is to obtain a college degree while im in the guard so I can reduce the amount of time it will take to get training, education, and certifications.

    I ask this because I'm contemplating between Active Duty and the guard, Active Duty would give me a good amount of money to save up (If I wanted to buy something, or maybe move (Which I want to do)). Thanks for your help and a really detailed posting.
  • bellheadbellhead Member Posts: 120
    Did you check out the Air National Guard also. I did four years in the Navy and 3 in the ANG. The ANG treats it people alot better than the Army. I would look at them before the Army. Also have you thought about active duty?
  • wastedtimewastedtime Member Posts: 586 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I have never been in RC/NG but in active duty you do have a good amount of time off on holidays/weekends/training holidays. Depending on what kind of unit you get in will decide how busy you will be with field exercises. I have been in some that go almost once a month and some that go less then once a year.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    bellhead wrote: »
    Did you check out the Air National Guard also. I did four years in the Navy and 3 in the ANG. The ANG treats it people alot better than the Army. I would look at them before the Army. Also have you thought about active duty?

    Thing is there is only two units for the air national guard in my state, one an hour and a half away and another 2 hours away. I've never spoken to a air national recruiter though, I do like the airforce but is the ang the same as the airforce as far as jobs go. "The needs of the air force come first" as far as looking for a job?

    Thanks
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    wastedtime wrote: »
    I have never been in RC/NG but in active duty you do have a good amount of time off on holidays/weekends/training holidays. Depending on what kind of unit you get in will decide how busy you will be with field exercises. I have been in some that go almost once a month and some that go less then once a year.

    Active Duty would be great for the experience, but I think it would take time from my study (Maybe not , I could be greatly wrong).
  • bellheadbellhead Member Posts: 120
    Thing is there is only two units for the air national guard in my state, one an hour and a half away and another 2 hours away. I've never spoken to a air national recruiter though, I do like the airforce but is the ang the same as the airforce as far as jobs go. "The needs of the air force come first" as far as looking for a job?

    Thanks


    Yes, same jobs, Air Force and Navy usually have better tech schools btw.

    What state are you in btw?

    Also the deployment tend to be better than the Army National Guard. My friend in the Army went to Benning for his 2 weeks of camping out in the Bush, I went to Italy, stayed in a hotel close to the sea, worked 8 to 12 hour shifts, learned while I was there and spend the rest of my time at the beach, and liked it so much I stayed an extra 2 weeks. My only summer which sucked was the 2 weeks where we getting qualified on our new equipment. It sucked....
  • tpatt100tpatt100 Member Posts: 2,991 ■■■■■■■■■□
    I am a 25N in the National Guard now. Been doing Signal for about 14 years. Signal got me into IT and when I deployed to Iraq in 2003 I got put in an IT security position with Civilian contractors due to my IT background. When I got back I was offered a position doing DOD security work due to my experience in Iraq. That job doubled my salary and from there advanced to my current position
  • notextnotext Member Posts: 10 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Do you have a lot of time to study even though you are on active duty, my objective is to obtain a college degree while im in the guard so I can reduce the amount of time it will take to get training, education, and certifications.

    I ask this because I'm contemplating between Active Duty and the guard, Active Duty would give me a good amount of money to save up (If I wanted to buy something, or maybe move (Which I want to do)). Thanks for your help and a really detailed posting.


    Every unit I have been to has been extrememly flexible when it comes to education. All my leaders have put a huge emphasis on education. During a deployment studying is very easy and there is ALOT of time to study once everything is up. Right now on the FOB we have represenatives from U of Maryland University College and Central Texas College and a Prometric Testing Center. I know a few people who have gotten their degree while deployed.

    You may wanna check how the post 9/11 GI Bill works for guard and compare it to the active duty. I am pretty sure you only need to do a 3 year enlistment for active duty 25N unless it has changed. You will spend the first 3/4 of a year in Basic and AIT so chances are you will deploy only 1 time, if at all. I was in 6 years before deploying this January and that is not all that uncommon. If you get sent to Korea you can get stuck in a sort of loop where you don't deploy for a long time, if at all. Also remember 25N deployment is not 11B(infantry) deployment. You are not walking the street and kicking in doors. You are sitting at the Main Toc, which houses the high level brass. If you are seeing any more action then the occasional mortar/rocket(half of which the C-RAM knocks down, they other have don't hit anything or don't even detonate) then things have gone horribly wrong.
  • bellheadbellhead Member Posts: 120
    Oh, also talking to a buddy still in the Navy he said the best job going out of any service is CTN which is Crypto Tech Network, they do all the networking, NOC, and deployment for the CT side of the house in the Navy, he said guys coming out of there are starting @ 100k because of their clearances and the work they do in the Navy.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    bellhead wrote: »
    Yes, same jobs, Air Force and Navy usually have better tech schools btw.

    What state are you in btw?

    Also the deployment tend to be better than the Army National Guard. My friend in the Army went to Benning for his 2 weeks of camping out in the Bush, I went to Italy, stayed in a hotel close to the sea, worked 8 to 12 hour shifts, learned while I was there and spend the rest of my time at the beach, and liked it so much I stayed an extra 2 weeks. My only summer which sucked was the 2 weeks where we getting qualified on our new equipment. It sucked....

    I live in Georgia currently, although I like the air force side, it isn't guarenteed like the army national guard right now, theres a slot of 25N open currently and my recruiter is aiming to get it for me. Also, I can possibly get jump school (Airborne) if I want to, when I'm at meps and if its open.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    notext wrote: »
    Every unit I have been to has been extrememly flexible when it comes to education. All my leaders have put a huge emphasis on education. During a deployment studying is very easy and there is ALOT of time to study once everything is up. Right now on the FOB we have represenatives from U of Maryland University College and Central Texas College and a Prometric Testing Center. I know a few people who have gotten their degree while deployed.

    You may wanna check how the post 9/11 GI Bill works for guard and compare it to the active duty. I am pretty sure you only need to do a 3 year enlistment for active duty 25N unless it has changed. You will spend the first 3/4 of a year in Basic and AIT so chances are you will deploy only 1 time, if at all. I was in 6 years before deploying this January and that is not all that uncommon. If you get sent to Korea you can get stuck in a sort of loop where you don't deploy for a long time, if at all. Also remember 25N deployment is not 11B(infantry) deployment. You are not walking the street and kicking in doors. You are sitting at the Main Toc, which houses the high level brass. If you are seeing any more action then the occasional mortar/rocket(half of which the C-RAM knocks down, they other have don't hit anything or don't even detonate) then things have gone horribly wrong.
    I was told by my recruiter that you can apply for GI Bill after AIT is completed. I understand the chances of fatality are relatively small in this mos, the only time he was sent to Operation Iraqi Freedom which gave him all the vet benefits for being there.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    tpatt100 wrote: »
    I am a 25N in the National Guard now. Been doing Signal for about 14 years. Signal got me into IT and when I deployed to Iraq in 2003 I got put in an IT security position with Civilian contractors due to my IT background. When I got back I was offered a position doing DOD security work due to my experience in Iraq. That job doubled my salary and from there advanced to my current position

    That's great! Thats what I hopefully wuld like to achieve later down in the long run.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    bellhead wrote: »
    Oh, also talking to a buddy still in the Navy he said the best job going out of any service is CTN which is Crypto Tech Network, they do all the networking, NOC, and deployment for the CT side of the house in the Navy, he said guys coming out of there are starting @ 100k because of their clearances and the work they do in the Navy.

    From all the information I have converged up I can't and won't recieve a top secret clearence from them. Do to some bad choices previously, otherwise I would go for that (Really want to). But, I don't want to be reclassed as a sailor and wipe the poop deck
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    Question, is it true for the GI Bill Benefits, you recieve a paycheck to use it toward rent, etc , etc?

    Thanks
  • bellheadbellhead Member Posts: 120
    Yea, On the CT side of the house you cannot come in with any priors, I was an ET and most ET's were people who had very high ASVAB scores but, had a strike against them somewhere in their life, admitting drug use, dui, criminal record "small stuff". They couldn't get a waiver for the Nuke program so ET was the next job the recruiters offered. When I was in ET's were critically undermanned at around 78% and advancement to e-5 consisted of showing up for the test and bring your pencil with you. Midway through in 91 when Bush Sr. cut the Navy to the bone you couldn't make E-5 even if you banging the admirals daughter, they were dropping 2 year extensions and asking ET's to get out, before we were getting 60k SRB's. ET's in the Navy are the creme and work on everything as the RM's now IT rates run the gear they just can't fix it. If the mutliplexer breaks who does the IT guy call, the ET, if the Radar is down who does the OS guy call, the ET. If the Navigation system fails who do you call the ET. If the comm crypto circuits are down who do you call the ET...

    The Air guard is different though talk to them about the computers and switching which is what I did in a Air Control Squad.

    There is a Air Control Squad in Savannah Ga. and there are other choices in Savannah. When you come in to drill you will be put up in a hotel for your drill weekend, you don't have to drive in and back home each day if you live outside of I think 60 miles.
  • GamingCrazyGamingCrazy Member Posts: 113
    bellhead wrote: »
    Yea, On the CT side of the house you cannot come in with any priors, I was an ET and most ET's were people who had very high ASVAB scores but, had a strike against them somewhere in their life, admitting drug use, dui, criminal record "small stuff". They couldn't get a waiver for the Nuke program so ET was the next job the recruiters offered. When I was in ET's were critically undermanned at around 78% and advancement to e-5 consisted of showing up for the test and bring your pencil with you. Midway through in 91 when Bush Sr. cut the Navy to the bone you couldn't make E-5 even if you banging the admirals daughter, they were dropping 2 year extensions and asking ET's to get out, before we were getting 60k SRB's. ET's in the Navy are the creme and work on everything as the RM's now IT rates run the gear they just can't fix it. If the mutliplexer breaks who does the IT guy call, the ET, if the Radar is down who does the OS guy call, the ET. If the Navigation system fails who do you call the ET. If the comm crypto circuits are down who do you call the ET...

    The Air guard is different though talk to them about the computers and switching which is what I did in a Air Control Squad.

    There is a Air Control Squad in Savannah Ga. and there are other choices in Savannah. When you come in to drill you will be put up in a hotel for your drill weekend, you don't have to drive in and back home each day if you live outside of I think 60 miles.

    Do you know where I can find the number to the air control squad because i'm very interested in doing computers with them? Thanks
  • chmorinchmorin Member Posts: 1,446 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Do you know where I can find the number to the air control squad because i'm very interested in doing computers with them? Thanks

    Same question. I had no idea there was something like this in Savannah.
    Currently Pursuing
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  • notextnotext Member Posts: 10 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Question, is it true for the GI Bill Benefits, you recieve a paycheck to use it toward rent, etc , etc?

    Thanks

    Not sure about guard/reserve but for active duty, you will receive basic allowance for housing at the rate of E-5 pay for the location of the school. You must be taking at least 12hrs per semester and you can't take 100% online courses.

    So for example. If when I get out I went to the University of Texas at Dallas(excellent MBA program), I would get $1137 a month to pay for my housing. If I went to Pepperdine University, Malibu CA, I would get $2051 per month.

    I am pretty sure guard does not receive the BAH.

    This is all under the Post 9/11 GI Bill. If I wanted to attend WGU and not take any offline courses, I could just move back to Dallas and use the Montgomery GI Bill that would pay me about just over $13,000 a year. That would leave me quite a bit after tuition to use towards housing.

    You can read more and calculate the stuff here New GI Bill - Calculate your benefits and more. You can also check out the VA site for more info.
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