CCNP without experience ?

walid97walid97 Posts: 79Member ■■□□□□□□□□
Hi guys,

Last week I passed my CCNA with a 972.
I am now a CCNA, A+ and Network+ certified. I am going for Security+ for the next month then I was thinking of starting CCNP.

The problem is that I have no experience working with Cisco equipments, I mean I had some Computer Sience internhips (I am doing my MS in Computer Science now, and planing of a networking career) but none with Cisco equipments.

Can I start CCNP without any experience in the field and while studying do some networking internships with the help of CCNA on my resume?


I am still young (23), so your experience in that field will help a lot !
Thanks a lot !

Comments

  • netheadnethead Posts: 43Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    There's no reason why you can't start working on CCNP with no field experience but if I were you I would recommend concentrating on trying to break into the IT job market if you haven't already.

    I don't think having a CCNP over CCNA without any real world experience will help you to get a better starting job as most employers value experience over certs. Therefore it would be best to try and get a job and then work on CCNP in your spare time.

    Also if working on the CCNP I would recommend getting together a lab if you haven't already, a couple of routers (with a variety of interfaces) and some switches.
    "The time for talking is over. Now call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard, and we hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign. "
    - Rimmer, Polymorph
  • Fu LoserFu Loser Posts: 123Member
    hmm. CCNP with no experience can get you a great job actually. My dad's best friend is a It headhunter. He was only only a few weeks ago. I asked him about how much they pay for guys with certs.

    CCNA $15-$30hr
    CCNP $35-$60hr
    CCIE $80-$150hr

    He looks for people with certs only. College counts as an extra.

    According to him he is finding that most employers are valueing a Cert over a Computer Science degree.

    A cert acknowledges you have a specific knowledge in a specific field.

    A computer science degree means you know a lot of **** about programming but not trained in much of anything else.

    I live in Chicago and the market for cisco certs is always huge.
  • hhisgetthhisgett Posts: 181Member
    I wish I could say the same here in the Southern US. Some people look at you stupid if you don't have a degree period. I am in the job market now with several certs and the only thing it does it gets you as far as the first interview.
  • cdad2000cdad2000 Posts: 323Member
    Congradulations, that's a pretty high score. What kind of materials did you use to study. I'm study for my CCNA right now. Hey, good luck finding a job, If you want it bad enough you should have No problem.Thanks in advanced.
  • WebmasterWebmaster Posts: 10,292Admin Admin
    It's difficult for a CCNA without any actual Cisco experience to get a CCNA level job, and it is difficult for a CCNP without experience to get a CCNP level job, but, it should be easier for a CCNP without experience to get a CCNA level job.

    Personally, I wouldn't consider anyone with a Cisco cert, but without Cisco hands-on, a serious candidate for a Cisco job. If you are able to pass all the CCNP exams without ever touching a router/switch or extensive sim, you are going the wrong path and should probably go for something more theoretical, i.e. get your masters.

    Just my $0.02...
  • keenonkeenon Posts: 1,921Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    to be honest i have gotten alot of ccna level jobs that vary in pay from 20 us to 44 us per hour.. (20 is a minimum considering what the job duties) i have done ccnp level stuff as well but i wouldn't want to work with anyone with a cert and no experience what so ever( book and job work very different) get a job fast and get your experience
    Become the stainless steel sharp knife in a drawer full of rusty spoons
  • Fu LoserFu Loser Posts: 123Member
    You should look for a job at CCNA level. If you can find one, and it pays more or slightly less than what you have now take it. That will get your feet wet.

    No reason you can't work and get a CCNP at the same time.

    If you are going for CCIE, get a part-time job, you will need that much study time.

    A friend of my dad just has a CCIE in RS and a CCDA. He just signed a contract yesterday to be an on call tech to support a $45 million dollar contract.

    He is getting paid $175,000 for 6 months to be availible for on-call.

    He told me he only plans on working less than 10 hours a week. He is also on call for $300 an hour for a few other companies.

    Certs are great and pay well. They pay top dollar if you get CCIE.

    Theirs a large difference in industry need. For contracting get your Certs as high as possible. To work for a company doing regular 40hr/week job get a degree then certs to complement your degree.
  • rossonieri#1rossonieri#1 Posts: 800Member
    Fu Loser wrote:
    Theirs a large difference in industry need. For contracting get your Certs as high as possible. To work for a company doing regular 40hr/week job get a degree then certs to complement your degree.

    totally agree. :D
    the More I know, that is more and More I dont know.
  • MilkywayMilkyway Posts: 14Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    I hope that it's not TOO tough to get a job with a CCNP and no actual networking experience, cause that's the route I'm going. I've passed the BSCI and BCMSN already, so don't tell me stop at this point :). I guess the good news is that I've got two B.S.'s to fall back on. But yeah, I'm taking the view that it'll be easier to get a CCNA-level job with a CCNP than it will be to get one with just a CCNA.

    (By the way, don't get the idea that a college degree is worthless, as I've got a good-paying job right now, but it's grown boring to me, and I've grown fascinated with networking after watching my brother progress up to two CCIEs. There's a lot more room to grow in networking than there is in my current job, I can tell you that.)
  • x_Danny_xx_Danny_x Posts: 312Member
    how much money does a CCNP job pays??
    There There, Its okay to feel GUILTY...........There is no SIN in PLEASURE!
  • mikeeomikeeo Posts: 74Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I would caution whats been said here.

    The lack of true experience always comes out in an interview. No good engineer is going to ask you exam type questions. He may ask you whats the line coding for a clear channel DS-3 ? or framing and you won't have the answer. He may ask you to run through the configuration of a CSU and you will fail.

    My suggestion is go for jobs where a CCNA is not require and it says like "nice to have"

    If you sell yourself as a Cisco engineer and you have never configured a DS-3, T-1s, ISDN, CSUs etc.. you are just wasting your time and the interviews time and may land yourself on the company's "no hire" list.

    if I catch a canidate lying on there resume I end the interview that very second and send them out the door and have HR add the name to the no hire list.
  • tunerXtunerX Posts: 447Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    That isn't really true. I have configured many CSUs, commercial and government contracted, all around the world. The CSU can have software settings or hardware dipswitches (or jumpers). It is almost impossible to know every possible CSU setting for every CSU manufacturer. You need to know what a CSU does and how to reference the proper operational manuals to set the CSU or DSU for the proper timeslots, framing, and line coding.

    If you know the different layers and how they relate to DS0-DS3 then you shouldn't have a problem. If you know how to ask for reference manuals for any equipment that is used on site then you also shouldn't have a problem.
  • mikeeomikeeo Posts: 74Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I don't think I even mentioned a specific brand of CSU did I?

    Don't fool these guys with lots of certs and no experience into thinking they can land top engineering jobs.

    May work that way over there in europe (home of the most insecure networks) but not here in the states.
  • tunerXtunerX Posts: 447Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    mikeeo wrote:
    He may ask you to run through the configuration of a CSU and you will fail.

    You never mentioned a specific CSU. How would you "run" through the configuration of a CSU unless you knew what type it was?? An engineer would never ask a question like that... unless the job you were interviewing for stated a specific CSU.

    You do not have to know every setting and every command possible to get a job that requires a CCNA or CCNP; you have to know technologies and have an understanding of protocols. This is what a CCNA or CCNP demonstrates. Your statements are inferring that a job which require a CCNA or CCNP require an expert understanding of networking technologies; in reality a CCNA or CCNP is entry-to-mid level work so hiring managers don't expect CCIE level knowledge from every candidate.

    I work for General Dynamics as a contractor for the US DOD. I am pretty sure that US Goverment, Top Secret, and Secret networks are far more secure than comparative commercial networks in the US. This makes your comment about how things work in Europe and the states moot.

    Anyway, what were you trying to accomplish with the added crack about "home of the most insecure networks"? Obviously, you do not have a knowledge of networking and telecommunications in Europe.
  • mikeeomikeeo Posts: 74Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    Running through the standard configuation of a CSU is easy

    framing,line-code,time-slots and cable distance (optional)

    done.

    Its apparent you haven't been on many interviews or you've never interviewed at a top notch company where they grill you for 2 hours and crank up a sniffer and ask you to tell them whats going on when they show you the output.

    Please don't throw out big names like the department of defense to a person who has TS,SCI and SSBI clearance.

    You'd be surprise how secure some corporate networks are and I've worked at duPont for 6 yrs and dealt with european engineers and the skill they have or lack there of.
  • WebmasterWebmaster Posts: 10,292Admin Admin
    tunerX wrote:
    Anyway, what were you trying to accomplish with the added crack about "home of the most insecure networks"? Obviously, you do not have a knowledge of networking and telecommunications in Europe.
    I was wondering and concluding the same thing... that remark is just nonsense. Networks in Indonesia, Guam, Nigeria, Argentina, Maleysia and others I worked with are much more insecure that the state-of-the-art material we use. Europe is a big place you know ;) It's a continent, lots and lots of countries. Things are very different in some countries than others, and I agree there is a lot of incompetence in many of them, trust me, that is a world-wide epidemic.

    Back to the topic: I agree that a CCNP without experience isn't likely to find a network engineer position right away(unless there's a huge shortage of experienced people). As common with Cisco, you need experience to get the job, but you need the job to get experience. And to get that first job, a CCNP will help a lot. It may be a CCNA-level network admin job, but CCNP does of course open the door to network engineer. You can't expect to get that $80k job after passing your CIT exam.
  • tunerXtunerX Posts: 447Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    mikeeo wrote:
    Running through the standard configuation of a CSU is easy

    framing,line-code,time-slots and cable distance (optional)

    done.

    Its apparent you haven't been on many interviews or you've never interviewed at a top notch company where they grill you for 2 hours and crank up a sniffer and ask you to tell them whats going on when they show you the output.

    Please don't throw out big names like the department of defense to a person who has TS,SCI and SSBI clearance.

    You'd be surprise how secure some corporate networks are and I've worked at duPont for 6 yrs and dealt with european engineers and the skill they have or lack there of.

    SSBI isn't a clearance, it is an investigation. You need an SSBI to get an SCI.

    I tossed out the DOD to let you know that I am a US citizen, have worked in the US, and know the technical Interview process there. I have interviewed with General Dynamics, HP, L3, Lockheed Martin, and Northrup Grumman. So I do have experience with interviews. This was when I was an entry level person who only had a CCNA, MCSE, and SCSA certifications. In all cases they wanted CCNA level candidates and nobody asked questions that a CCNA would not be expected to know. In all cases the interviews lasted a day or several days.

    I never thought that GD wasn't a Top Notch company that employs 75000 people and does 100s of billions of dollars a year in business. Anyway, after I accepted the position with GD, the hiring manager said that I was picked over other candidates because of my CCNA.

    I am currently sitting an interview with Mitre that has been going for the last 3 months. I have never had to configure anything. It has all been discussions about technologies and protocols.

    With all this said. I wouldn't be moving up from Network Engineering/Management to Network Engineering System Development if I hadn't had my entry level position that I got because of my CCNA.
  • wildfirewildfire Posts: 654Member
    I agree with most people here, it is difficult to get a job without any experience, however I myself am looking for a new job at moment (sick of military life) and a couple of times Ive been told "you have all the experience, but we need someone who has a CCNP!) Luckily I get the experience through work, but one of my friends has CCNP with no experience, so he volunteers at companies for a couple of days and they write him a reference, then one company offered him a damm good job.

    Plenty of companies will bite you hand of if your a CCNP and you take some time off and offer some support for free! (Well in the UK anyway) its a good way to get your foot in the door.
    You'd be surprise how secure some corporate networks are and I've worked at duPont for 6 yrs and dealt with european engineers and the skill they have or lack there of.

    Im sure there are plenty of people over the "pond" who are in the same situation, no need to brand groups

    Besides I work with US military a lot and their Secret network (Sipernet) is nowhere near as secure as other Nato networks!
    Looking for CCIE lab study partnerts, in the UK or Online.
  • tunerXtunerX Posts: 447Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    There isn't any way into SIPRNet unless you have the proper encryption, or clearance to access a secret computer. How can you get less secure than NATO, which uses the same policies for access to networks? Anyway, we tie into NATO, but we have to downgrade our classification and run on the CENTREX network with everyone else.
  • rossonieri#1rossonieri#1 Posts: 800Member
    tunerX wrote:
    You do not have to know every setting and every command possible to get a job that requires a CCNA or CCNP; you have to know technologies and have an understanding of protocols. This is what a CCNA or CCNP demonstrates. Your statements are inferring that a job which require a CCNA or CCNP require an expert understanding of networking technologies; in reality a CCNA or CCNP is entry-to-mid level work so hiring managers don't expect CCIE level knowledge from every candidate.

    almost agree.. icon_wink.gif
    the More I know, that is more and More I dont know.
  • YozhYozh Posts: 69Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    People we are forgeting one very important thing. Companys hire people with certs, becuase of the perks that they get with a company, for instants When you become Cisco gold partner you get almost 50% of there equipment and they send work your way( depending on what type of company you are).. To get to gold partnership level you need to have a certen amount of people with certs. It is worth for a company to hire you and pay you 60k a year, because when they buy that one 7600 and save half its cost they already got there money back. This is why alot of companys will hire you with a cert over someone who just has expirence or a college degree. Same thing with Microsoft, can you image how much money company saves on the licenses. The reason why Im rushing my CCNP right now, is because my company wants to get silver partner and they need 2 more CCNPs to do that. There is 3 of us that are working on the CCNP and they actually offer us to pay for any failed tests, books and as an insentive to pass first they will give the first one a FREE trip to Vegas, secound one a iPOD. All of this to get silver certified with Cisco. So alot of times you can get a job with no expirence at all, but just because you have a cert they will hire you and train you on the job.
    LIfe is hard, thats all I have to say.
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