Pay raises, ask or else....

carboncopy

I wanted to know how many people here received a pay raise other than the annual raise without having to ask for it?

I have heard from some people that if you don't ask, management will think that you are okay with your compensation and will not give you a raise.

I am sure that this is different for many jobs, but I kind of wanted to know what the majority had to say about this.

ccie15672

If you don't ask, you won't get one. Don't be a mouse about it. The best way to get a pay raise is to get another job. So have on in the pipeline, then go to your current employer and let them know you will leave and its about money.

carboncopy

ccie15672 wrote: »

If you don't ask, you won't get one. Don't be a mouse about it. The best way to get a pay raise is to get another job. So have on in the pipeline, then go to your current employer and let them know you will leave and its about money.

I have heard this from many people.. The " Tell your job you got a better offer somewhere else". While I know that has worked for many, I wonder how many people have been told "Goodbye" because of it.

If you like your job and that plan backfires, what do you do then? I guess you are stuck with moving on to that other job which offered you more.

I'm not in this position but I really want to know what other think about this. This is something I hear people talk about a lot.

shaqazoolu

I've gotten a raise without asking for it in my previous job, with some nuances however. It wasn't just a raise for the sake of getting a raise. I had been with the company for about 6 or 7 years at the time with the same boss for the duration. My boss knew I was worth it but couldn't justify giving me a raise because I was at the cap for my job title. So he pulled some strings to get my job title changed to something with a higher cap, and then put me at that cap instead. Technically you could say it was a promotion I guess, but it was more a raise facilitating the promotion than the other way around. I didn't even know that any of this had happened until he came and told me when it was all said and done. Pleasant surprise.

erpadmin

carboncopy wrote: »

I have heard this from many people.. The " Tell your job you got a better offer somewhere else". While I know that has worked for many, I wonder how many people have been told "Goodbye" because of it.

If you like your job and that plan backfires, what do you do then? I guess you are stuck with moving on to that other job which offered you more.

I'm not in this position but I really want to know what other think about this. This is something I hear people talk about a lot.

THAT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!

If you value employment, you will put this one in the trash. First of all, even if it were true, you never want to "burn bridges" with a current employer. Second, the potential to leave a bad taste in your employer's mouth like you are "hot s--t", will definitely be remembered when there are times for layoffs. YOUR NAME can and will be first.

Seriously, that will backfire on you if it's done.

carboncopy

erpadmin wrote: »

THAT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!

If you value employment, you will put this one in the trash. First of all, even if it were true, you never want to "burn bridges" with a current employer. Second, the potential to leave a bad taste in your employer's mouth like you are "hot s--t", will definitely be remembered when there are times for layoffs. YOUR NAME can and will be first.

Seriously, that will backfire on you if it's done.

People have done this for years successfully. Is it something I will ever do? Hell no,lol.

Either way, it's not like you are threatening your employer by telling them to give you a pay raise or you will leave. I think it is more to let them know that your skills are have more value and you should be compensated. Risky, but it works.

earweed

I would never pull that "I've got a higher paying job offer" thing. It's too risky, simply mention to your boss that you feel you deserve a raise. And don't base this on what your coworkers make but on your worth to the company.
If you want to base it on what the average is for your job and geographical area do some research and find out what the average is for your geographical area. If you get this info then your boss has something to take to his boss to justify your raise. Don't forget that your boss, no matter how high up he is in the company, has a boss to answer to (unless you work in a small consulting firm).

This probably would tie into another thread This is Messed Up where companies only accept resumes from currently employed people. How many people are using this ploy to get a raise and would be given preference for job consideration over a person who is unemployed?

erpadmin

carboncopy wrote: »

People have done this for years successfully. Is it something I will ever do? Hell no,lol.

Either way, it's not like you are threatening your employer by telling them to give you a pay raise or you will leave. I think it is more to let them know that your skills are have more value and you should be compensated. Risky, but it works.

I will take your "Hell, no, lol" response as agreement as to why it shouldn't be done. LOL.

Seriously, a nuclear bomb will win a war. It's been guaranteed to win wars (well, one war, but that's neither here nor there). But no one wants to use them (again) for the same premise. Just because it has been used sucessfully, doesn't mean I (or you for that matter) should advocate using using that tactic, especially in this economy.

Many companies/state/federal/municipal agencies figure it may be all about the bottom line to get someone cheaper and hungrier. Remember, IT shops are a cost center, not a profit center. You may get your raise by bluffing your way, but when layoffs come, I can promise that when names are needed for cutting, guy who got raise through hardball will be in the top three, irrespective of how hot his stuff is.

There are much more tactful ways to get a raise. That way is just not one of them.

billscott92787

Suck it up and use the tactic. lol . Honestly, if you have another job lined up "really" then go to your employer and tell them they are offering you more money, you really like where you work, would they be able to give you a raise to match for you to stay, just go about it that way. It's not a threat. If you aren't willing to do it, you don't want a raise bad enough.

Onefive

Listen to the more experienced people here, they know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!

The ONLY way to get a decent raise ( above 5% ), is to have another job offer pending, and then tell you're current employer you want a raise/promotion, or you're leaving. I know this sounds harsh, but its true, I've done this myself, and I've seen others do it, IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Now don't be a dick about it, be professional and explain to your current employer that you really like the company, and that you would like to grow with it, but money is money.

erpadmin

billscott92787 wrote: »

Suck it up and use the tactic. lol . Honestly, if you have another job lined up "really" then go to your employer and tell them they are offering you more money, you really like where you work, would they be able to give you a raise to match for you to stay, just go about it that way. It's not a threat. If you aren't willing to do it, you don't want a raise bad enough.

That should be done only if you are ready to leave. Even if your current employer gives you what you want, you should still go. Because I'm telling you...for every one person this tactic works for, there are 5 that are one of those unemployed getting legally denied jobs because they are unemployed.

No, I don't have stats to back that up, much like you don't have stats to show that this irresponsible tactic works. I think I pretty much said all I could on this, but I hope that I help someone out there that might be considering this to not do it. There are better, tactful ways, many which can be found on career websites/career books at your local Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc.

ccie15672

Its not an irresponsible tactic, its just business. Look, if you have your **** together as a human being then you likely have a good relationship with your boss and possibly their boss. They know if you are good that other companies will try to take you. Its not a tactic. Its a good way to get a feel for what other companies think you may be worth. It also gets you the oppurtunity to occasionally go out and interview and see what employers are looking for.

Don't be an ass hole about it. Others have already said it: if you like where you are at and you would stay for more money, then let your boss know.

erpadmin

Onefive wrote: »

Listen to the more experienced people here, they know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!

If you define experience as years in IT (13 years, professionally), then I definitely have that. If it's by post count on a message board (and a great one at that), then maybe not so much.

My experience has taken me to corporate America and the Public Sector. I have seen at least 5 people in EVERY job I've had use this tactic. One of them did have a job offer and left my job cursing out management to work for a big-name IT consulting firm (which I'm sure you've heard of).

In the private sector, the couple of people who pulled that crap did get a mediocre raise. Then mass layoffs came a couple of weeks later. Guess who got canned?

T-A-C-T and P-R-O-F-E-S-S-I-O-N-A-L-I-S-M will get you a raise OR at the very worse a raise given to you at a later time. It will involve some candor, but if done right, it can happen.

carboncopy

Onefive wrote: »

Listen to the more experienced people here, they know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!

The ONLY way to get a decent raise ( above 5% ), is to have another job offer pending, and then tell you're current employer you want a raise/promotion, or you're leaving. I know this sounds harsh, but its true, I've done this myself, and I've seen others do it, IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Now don't be a dick about it, be professional and explain to your current employer that you really like the company, and that you would like to grow with it, but money is money.

Actually that is not true. I know several people that got a 10% or higher % pay raise from just asking.

Like someone mentioned, you have to show them why you feel like you deserve the pay raise.

eMeS

I'm going to quote about the only thing worth reading on Twitter, http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays:

shitmydadsays wrote:

Don't listen to the pussy side of you when you make a decision. People gravitate towards being a pussy. Remove the pussy, son.

If you think you deserve a raise, and you don't have another job to go to, then just ask for what you want. If you can't tell the truth, and have to fall back on some imaginary job offer, then see the quote above.

If you have another job to go to, then tell them that you have another offer but you would stay for whatever increase it is that you want. Be prepared to leave if you don't get that counteroffer. If you don't get the raise and subsequently don't leave, then you've lost all credibility. Again, see the quote above.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone knows best what will work in their shop and what won't.

MS

carboncopy

eMeS wrote: »

I'm going to quote about the only thing worth reading on Twitter, http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays:



If you think you deserve a raise, and you don't have another job to go to, then just ask for what you want. If you can't tell the truth, and have to fall back on some imaginary job offer, then see the quote above.

If you have another job to go to, then tell them that you have another offer but you would stay for whatever increase it is that you want. Be prepared to leave if you don't get that counteroffer. If you don't get the raise and subsequently don't leave, then you've lost all credibility. Again, see the quote above.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone knows best what will work in their shop and what won't.

MS

ROFL... I can see someone without another job offer asking for a raise or else... and then when denied, going back to his/her desk quietly as if noting happened.

billscott92787

erpadmin wrote: »

That should be done only if you are ready to leave. Even if your current employer gives you what you want, you should still go. Because I'm telling you...for every one person this tactic works for, there are 5 that are one of those unemployed getting legally denied jobs because they are unemployed.

No, I don't have stats to back that up, much like you don't have stats to show that this irresponsible tactic works. I think I pretty much said all I could on this, but I hope that I help someone out there that might be considering this to not do it. There are better, tactful ways, many which can be found on career websites/career books at your local Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc.

Yeah you might get one just by asking but those are few and far between. If the employer likes you than they are going to offer you money to keep you. If not, then you need to move on because they don't appreciate you anyway. Don't be a puss like the other dude said and listen to the "negative" sides. If you have another offer pending, then you have another option anyways, so there is nothing to be scared about. If they tell you no, it doesn't mean you "have" to leave. You could still stay, they aren't going to fire you because you asked for more money. If you don't ask you're not getting it, it's up to you to decide how you want to ask. I would guarantee you have a better success rate at having another offer lined up. It's not "irresponsible" it is SMART, how is getting more money irresponsible? Irresponsible, is not getting the money your worth! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, whoever said it was irresponsible! Be a man and do the right thing!

ColbyG

I got a raise and am promised a promotion (+ more money) in September by doing what has been said here.

It wasn't my plan, I was actually seeking other employment as I'm not happy with my current position. I was offered another job, but sadly it amounted to driving an extra hour per day, plus losing some of the perks I have with my current position. I spoke to my boss and asked if he could match the salary (and give me more interesting work). I told him if he could, I would stay.

He worked with his boss and up the chain and I was made a nice offer, so I stayed. In the end though, I'm still not happy with my position, I'm just making more money to be unhappy. I think the extra driving/tolls/bs would have been worse though, but who knows.

Though, it wasn't a tactic, nor my plan. I assumed they would tell me good riddance when I mentioned that I had another offer, especially considering that my company is laying of a ton of people. If the you are seen as an asset, your company will try to make you stay.

billscott92787

ColbyG wrote: »

I got a raise and am promised a promotion (+ more money) in September by doing what has been said here.

It wasn't my plan, I was actually seeking other employment as I'm not happy with my current position. I was offered another job, but sadly it amounted to driving an extra hour per day, plus losing some of the perks I have with my current position. I spoke to my boss and asked if he could match the salary (and give me more interesting work). I told him if he could, I would stay.

He worked with his boss and up the chain and I was made a nice offer, so I stayed. In the end though, I'm still not happy with my position, I'm just making more money to be unhappy. I think the extra driving/tolls/bs would have been worse though, but who knows.

Though, it wasn't a tactic, nor my plan. I assumed they would tell me good riddance when I mentioned that I had another offer, especially considering that my company is laying of a ton of people. If the you are seen as an asset, your company will try to make you stay.

Well said Colby!!! I agree 100%

erpadmin

billscott92787 wrote: »

Yeah you might get one just by asking but those are few and far between. If the employer likes you than they are going to offer you money to keep you. If not, then you need to move on because they don't appreciate you anyway. Don't be a puss like the other dude said and listen to the "negative" sides. If you have another offer pending, then you have another option anyways, so there is nothing to be scared about. If they tell you no, it doesn't mean you "have" to leave. You could still stay, they aren't going to fire you because you asked for more money. If you don't ask you're not getting it, it's up to you to decide how you want to ask. I would guarantee you have a better success rate at having another offer lined up. It's not "irresponsible" it is SMART, how is getting more money irresponsible? Irresponsible, is not getting the money your worth! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, whoever said it was irresponsible! Be a man and do the right thing!

First of all, let me be clear, I have basketballs for balls and am not afraid to use them in whatever capacity they need to be used. Let me make things clear though.

1) I have never said it was irresponsible to ask for a raise. I did say that was irresponsible to bluff ask for a raise or else you would go to another offer (especially if that offer is made up). I have never accepted a counter-offer once I made up my mind to resign, for the simple fact that if a layoff was ever coming, it would just be logical to add the name of the a-hole who demanded his raise, as opposed to tactfully asking for one. Being tactful doesn't make someone a pussy, by any means. That makes him SMART. Having balls and being unemployed only makes you a guy that has to call unemployment. There are right ways and wrong ways to get a raise and as I said before, there is a right way to do it. I just don't like, nor will advocate a "counter-offer". What I would do is this.

A) If I want a raise, I would list reasons why I feel I deserve a raise first. Make short and to the point reasons. Ideally, I would wait until I am up for a review. If that's not possible, then depending on how cool I was with my boss, I would ask if I could talk to him one on one when he had the time. I would then just use my basketballs to find out how feasible it is for me to negotiate a raise. There are many factors to consider. How your company is doing financially? What's IT overall budget? Stuff like that.

It's not always about ego. If your company really values you and your work, when you ask for a raise, you should be able to get a honest assessment on how feasible it is for you to get a raise. If not, and you really are that great, then you should be able to find another job at the salary you want! Plain and simple.

Feel free to pack that in the pipe, smoke it, and pass it on the left-'and side.

Hyper-Me

I asked. They said no. I found a new job paying more.

Fin.

erpadmin

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I asked. They said no. I found a new job paying more.

Fin.

'Nuff Said.

Turgon

eMeS wrote: »

I'm going to quote about the only thing worth reading on Twitter, http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays:



If you think you deserve a raise, and you don't have another job to go to, then just ask for what you want. If you can't tell the truth, and have to fall back on some imaginary job offer, then see the quote above.

If you have another job to go to, then tell them that you have another offer but you would stay for whatever increase it is that you want. Be prepared to leave if you don't get that counteroffer. If you don't get the raise and subsequently don't leave, then you've lost all credibility. Again, see the quote above.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone knows best what will work in their shop and what won't.

MS

I agree with this. Companies are always asking for more from their staff. Why should you be any different? You have to learn to handle these situations or you will be a doormat all your life. If you have an alternative offer in hand and the pay claim isn't met then leave. If you have no alternative offer in hand and the payclaim isn't met then start looking for a new job and clear off in due course without prejudice..

The only extra I can add is come up with some reasons why you are worth the raise before you put the pay claim in. Everyone would like more money but if you suck you will not get a raise. This is why self promotion and recognition from key people is so important, so make sure you are good at that as well as your job. I should add that many companies promote people who are useless because they have the right friends. So if you have that and are at least competant you should get something. Many companies have room for manouver on this and will gladly wet your beak rather than lose a valuable employee. Just make sure you really *are* valuable before you ask to see the boss about it..or have another job to flee to..

And dont take the piss on the raise expectations either..

But the main thing is do it because this is just one of those things in life you shouldn't run away from.

I have done this on numerous occasions over my career, either to up an offer on a job opportunity or wrangle a raise on rates after delivering good work as a contractor. I always got something better for myself out it with no hard feelings.

carboncopy

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I asked. They said no. I found a new job paying more.

Fin.

It was probably because Beer+ wasn't cutting it anymore :P

phantasm

At my place of employment the services we support (ATM, FR, X25, Ethernet, MPLS) keeps increasing and boiling over into other services (Voice, Core, WAN, LAN, e911) yet our yearly pay raise remains at 1%. lol.

The only way to get more money is to find a new job.

arwes

I'm about due for my review (been here 3 years), and at the last one I mentioned that I'm doing far more system administration work than desktop support. I asked my boss if over the next year I could transition into an official system or network administration role and if necessary they could hire a help desk person. He said he would see what he could do.

As you can guess, it didn't happen and I don't have anything else lined up. I really need the extra money because I want to attend WGU, but without incurring any debt in the process. And my company will reimburse for exams, but they refuse to do any tuition reimbursement. Crap.

phantasm

arwes wrote: »

I'm about due for my review (been here 3 years), and at the last one I mentioned that I'm doing far more system administration work than desktop support. I asked my boss if over the next year I could transition into an official system or network administration role and if necessary they could hire a help desk person. He said he would see what he could do.

As you can guess, it didn't happen and I don't have anything else lined up. I really need the extra money because I want to attend WGU, but without incurring any debt in the process. And my company will reimburse for exams, but they refuse to do any tuition reimbursement. Crap.

Gotta love it. The company can't run without an IT department but they'll be damned if they take care of you. Such is the life in a cost center.

Mishra

The main suggestion that I give, which is a pretty standard response and something you should get used to, is that IT ALL DEPENDS.

Companies respond to these things different ways. Sometimes the treatment you get is because 1 guy in a management chain that you pissed off doesn't want to give you a raise. Sometimes they respond well to a counter offer, and sometimes they want to lay you off first when they give you the raise.

I'm going to summarize the main learning points that you should take from these suggestions and my experiences.

1. Definitely don't be pushed around. Learn tact and proper engagement and ask for the raise when you feel like you deserve a raise. But it takes skill to understand when you actually are worth a raise. One of the main points is that you have gain enough knowledge skill to be more valuable to others. It's just like a house. If you renovate your first floor, you can probably get more money for it. But sometimes your land value decreased which pushed the housing price lower when you are sure it is more than that. You have to understand when you are actually worth more and when you aren't.

2. This is going to be a point that wasn't mentioned in people's posts but is very important to me at least. While you are employed, you should learn and start your way to achieve income diversification. Just like investing, you should never put all your eggs in 1 basket. The same methodology should be used with your income. Some things you can do to achieve income diversification are own rental properties, invest in the stock market, own a side business, and/or receive royalties (like an invention or commercial). This is so you can lose your job and not actually get the 2nd job you had lined up and be OK.

3. Understand your audience. Before you take the step, learn how your boss/company reacts to raises or how they are performed. You can learn a lot by asking other employees how their raise/bonus process went.

4. Clear your mind and start looking at things that are beyond the money. Both my co-worker and I left separate jobs to find more money and better opportunity. What we realized after we left is that we had a really good thing going on. During the time that we were unhappy with our pay, we bloated things we didn't enjoy out of proportion to try and rationalize leaving the job. As it turns out, we left a great thing to pursue not so great things and we learned that after we left the job. As hard as it can be, DON'T leave an opportunity that can make you successful in the long run. Same concept of investing, would you rather spend that $15,000 on the car you want now, or earn $500,000 on that in 20 years? You have to clear your mind to realize your opportunity in a company.

5. Leave your job when necessary. Sometimes it honestly takes quitting and finding another job to achieve your goals. Different people have different experiences. Just be sure to be sure of your decision.

blargoe

The last company I worked for didn't give me a raise except for one time. I was hired by Company A, who merged with Company B to form Company C. When the new Company C finally established their pay scale and assigned pay grades to all of the positions, I was called into an office and told that my salary from Company A didn't even hit the bottom number of the pay scale for my pay grade! So much to their chagrin, they had to give me a 5% raise. Never saw another raise after that. Left the company within the year and created a 30%+ raise for myself.

Onefive

Mishra wrote: »

4. Clear your mind and start looking at things that are beyond the money. Both my co-worker and I left separate jobs to find more money and better opportunity. What we realized after we left is that we had a really good thing going on. During the time that we were unhappy with our pay, we bloated things we didn't enjoy out of proportion to try and rationalize leaving the job. As it turns out, we left a great thing to pursue not so great things and we learned that after we left the job. As hard as it can be, DON'T leave an opportunity that can make you successful in the long run. Same concept of investing, would you rather spend that $15,000 on the car you want now, or earn $500,000 on that in 20 years? You have to clear your mind to realize your opportunity in a company.

I've definitely learned this lesson THE HARD WAY. I recently left my old job for 'exaggerated reasons'. Even though my new job pays considerably more, I did have an opportunity to move up in the old company (for less money), but I would have been happier.

motogpman

I think a lot of issues for us in IT is that we see how so many people that are "educated" and make insane amounts of money. IT is THE backbone, but it still isn't viewed as the same league, in terms of compensation/respect, as sales/finance/executive levels. That can be frustrating, especially knowing how hard it is to get certified and/or degreed, in most cases. I don't think that will ever change, so if you stay in IT you will either need to come to terms with it or go out on your own and make a name for yourself. Being confident in your abilities and being arrogant is a fine line though.

For me, IMO, don't BS them, because if they call your bluff you end up looking like a sucker. What worked for me is that I let my work speak for itself. I looked at the job market in my area, PRINTED out the salary info and kept in in my back pocket, and then approached HR. I had copies of my reviews. I also had kept them in the loop on my certifications/education completions. When it came time to discuss this with them, I had all my ducks in a row and it worked out for me.

If you aren't worth their time, they won't invest in you. If they know you are a shaker and a mover, then they will find a way to compensate you. I think it also boils down to people not being confident enough in themselves to approach HR or management about this. You have to look at yourself as a business, because if they can keep paying you at your current wage and get away with it, then they will.