Do you ever wish IT careers were more clear cut?

smg1138

This is something I've been thinking about lately. In most professions you go college or a trade school to learn how to do that job, but in IT there's no real clear cut path for success. It seems like everybody I talk to in IT has a different background. Some went to college and some didn't. And even the ones that did don't always have a degree in an IT related field. Some people learned their skills in the military while others worked their way up from the help desk. Some people get lucky and get high level positions right out of school or because of their connections. Some people have tons of certifications and others have none at all. It all becomes pretty confusing when you think about it. I remember in college the only majors related to computers were Computer Science and CIS. I know I didn't want to be a programmer and CIS seemed more like a business major. So, I ended up getting a liberal arts degree which hasn't done jack for me in IT. If you want to be a nurse, you go to nursing school. If you want to be a doctor, you go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer...well you get the idea. I guess I'm just kind of venting here. Do any of you guys feel the same way though?

chmorin

If it was simple and clear cut I probably wouldn't want to do it anymore. This career path is in my character. It kind of has to be for all of us to pursue it whatever way we do.

[Deleted User]

I'm glad it isn't because it presents opportunities to find what you really love in the IT world and pursue that.

Mojo_666

I like the randomness.

\o/

mikej412

smg1138 wrote: »

but in IT there's no real clear cut path for success.

To maximize your success in IT (and over your competition when job hunting) you need Education, Experience, Certifications, People/Networking skills, and some luck.

How much of each you need may vary per job -- and could depend on your competition for the job.

Higher quality/quantity in one area may offset a weakness in another area. A graduate from a top school with top grades may get drafted into a job via on campus recruiting -- and their lack of experience may never be an issue. On the other hand, someone who goes to a school where you earn all A's for paying tuition -- and classes and exams are optional -- might find their McFastFood experience (and people skills) isn't enough to compensate for the perceived lack of quality education.

In IT you either advance your career -- or it dies (or dead ends).

Aldur

I think this is the beauty of IT, albeit I can see how it can be confusing for new people getting into the field. In my case I was fortunate enough to get my current job the month after I graduated college. I really don't think there is another career that I could be enjoying what I'm doing and making what I'm making just fresh out of a Bachelors degree.

The real key to success in IT is finding out what combo of factors will help you excel in what you enjoy and then going for it with no reserve.

Devilsbane

I like that there are options. That is also helpful in the workplace. Different people have different pasts with different knowledge, and we combine that to produce some amazing results. If we all sat in the same classes and had the same teachers, there wouldn't be as much creativity as there is today.

kinggeorge1987

Excellent points everyone. I'm just a noob to all of this but I gained tons of insight last night reading through the posts. If I were you smg, id keep on reading through the forum. See other people's experiences and maybe reflect them into your own life. I was confused just like you no more then 24 hours ago, still a little confused but anyway; I found out that I would love to chase the network security field of IT.

Not because it would be quick, because it's not, and not because it's easy, because it's not; but because it took some time to figure out. It seems challenging, and with enough research there is a specific and well known path to obtaining credibility in that area, as with all departments in IT. Just do some soul searching and dont settle for anything less then greatness.

erpadmin

kinggeorge1987 wrote: »

Just do some soul searching and don't settle for anything less then greatness.

Those are truly words to live by. Not just in IT, but in life!

I echo what everyone else has said too. I would have never done IT if I had to go to college/school for it. I was a PC hobbyist prior to ever getting a job in IT. It really is dependant on the kind of moves you want to make, but not in IT, just in life. If a career in IT is what you want to do, then pursue it. But if you're pursuing it because it can lead to riches...you will be somewhat disappointed.....

ipconfig.all

it takes alot of luck to make it in i.t no matter how hard you work, it takes luck, people get lucky and they get good jobs but luck will run out there are lot of people who work hard to learn and gain experience there are so many lucky cats who gets jobs without even have to compete with anyone and just by luck, that sux

N2IT

mikej412 wrote: »

To maximize your success in IT (and over your competition when job hunting) you need Education, Experience, Certifications, People/Networking skills, and some luck.

How much of each you need may vary per job -- and could depend on your competition for the job.

Higher quality/quantity in one area may offset a weakness in another area. A graduate from a top school with top grades may get drafted into a job via on campus recruiting -- and their lack of experience may never be an issue. On the other hand, someone who goes to a school where you earn all A's for paying tuition -- and classes and exams are optional -- might find their McFastFood experience (and people skills) isn't enough to compensate for the perceived lack of quality education.

In IT you either advance your career -- or it dies (or dead ends).

I loved your example from what I can tell it's the truth. I can actually plug in friends of mine from highschool and college who fit exactly what you are describing.

Friend of mine went to Tulane recieved an actuary/statistical degree with straight A's and landed a job in Chicago. 6 years later he is a director of IT infrastructure making God knows how much money.

Another friend of mine got his Computer Information Systems degree from a solid university, nothing special and makes very good money around 85 USD.

Then you have me, who landed a hospitality management degree from a solid university, but a weak arse degree I admit. I worked in restaurants as a manager, then property management and then some HR government work. Then I find IT when I am 29 now I am 35 working in the help desk.

A kid comes through the door works help desk at my company for 6 months interviews for a WINTEL position and get's it because of his dad, but ends up snubbing it for a infosec / SA job.

I think a lot of it depends on your start to be honest. It's like investing money except time and education and experience. Then sooner you start the better chance you have of making a true impact on your career. Or in the case of money if you started investing when you are 18 rather than 25 your chances of making a large retirement is WAY greater and your chances of become financial stable at an earlier age increase exponentially.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Those are truly words to live by. Not just in IT, but in life!

I echo what everyone else has said too. I would have never done IT if I had to go to college/school for it. I was a PC hobbyist prior to ever getting a job in IT. It really is dependant on the kind of moves you want to make, but not in IT, just in life. If a career in IT is what you want to do, then pursue it. But if you're pursuing it because it can lead to riches...you will be somewhat disappointed.....

hehehe good post

I'm 35 years old and my 25 year old fiancee has 6 months to graduate from nursing school. Her projected pay is about 5,000 more than what I am making now. She is a nursing student at a top 10 hospital in the United States, but still

ipconfig.all

yeah it is all about luck I mean most people in this forum got their first job or their last job through contacts or by luck and they did not have to compete with anyone. Try competing in the real job market they wouldnt last and I am just sick.

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

hehehe good post

I'm 35 years old and my 25 year old fiancee has 6 months to graduate from nursing school. Her projected pay is about 5,000 more than what I am making now. She is a nursing student at a top 10 hospital in the United States, but still

Nursing and IT...the two fields that are projected to be in demand in the 21st century...sounds like you guys are a great match.

N2IT

ipconfig.all wrote: »

yeah it is all about luck I mean most people in this forum got their first job or their last job through contacts or by luck and they did not have to compete with anyone. Try competing in the real job market they wouldnt last and I am just sick.

It's these times that define your life and career. Showing fortitude and strength is a great blessing and opportunity.

Just think when you finally get your dream job how hard you are going to work. You are going to spend extra hours there just because you are enjoying the moment. Try saying that about a kid who graduated college and daddy got him a job straight out of college. Trust me you will be a force to be reckon with. The question is can you maintain that strength and keep your chin up. We know that you are down and out, but keep your eye on the prize and remember once you land that gig it will truly all be worth it.

N2IT

erpadmin wrote: »

Nursing and IT...the two fields that are projected to be in demand in the 21st century...sounds like you guys are a great match.

Thanks man that made me smile a bit.

This forum is a great place to be.

erpadmin

ipconfig.all wrote: »

it takes alot of luck to make it in i.t no matter how hard you work, it takes luck, people get lucky and they get good jobs but luck will run out there are lot of people who work hard to learn and gain experience there are so many lucky cats who gets jobs without even have to compete with anyone and just by luck, that sux

I will be honest with you, I had to really think about how to respond to this post; alot of emotions were running through me (positive and negative). But then I thought about how was it that I got into IT....on the surface it was luck. But if you knew my background, probably not.

When most kids my age (14) were learning the joys of getting laid, smoking (cigarettes and pot), drinking, and just basically being kids, I was taking apart my computer and learning how it worked. Doing A+ work just because it was fun. I was becoming "the computer guy" to my parents friends and family. Was doing it all throughout high school while doing other nerdy things. It wasn't until 5 years later that I was recognized by my employer for fixing PCs when I didn't have to and wasn't even asked to do it. But I did it so that library patrons wouldn't have to wait days to get on the Internet. I did NOT do it to get a full time job in IT, though that's eventually what happened. Right before I was offered this great opportunity, I was going to quit my part time job so that I could work at KFC and work my way up to assistant manager so that I could pay for college. I was hired and everything! (Brand new KFC...was going to get in on the ground floor, I remember being excited.) But then I was going to do something that would get me off my dad's medical plan (cause I'd have my own). It was a blessing...and a curse, because my dreams of becoming a lawyer was all but dead. My IT experience went from a hobby to a job to now a career (because really, I don't have a clue what else I'd do if I wasn't doing this).

So in short, stop thinking it "sux" that cats got "lucky." I think it sucks that I haven't hit the Mega Millions or Powerball, but I'm not going to spend energy on hating on those that have hit.

N2IT

ipconfig.all wrote: »

yeah it is all about luck I mean most people in this forum got their first job or their last job through contacts or by luck and they did not have to compete with anyone. Try competing in the real job market they wouldnt last and I am just sick.

Luck is what happens when opportunity meets preperations.

ipconfig.all

I am not down and out, I am still working in I.T and learning and gainning valuable experience and growing it is just life is just hard for me, for some reason I never have luck on my side and I had to work for everything ever since I was a kid, I never got it easy, just makes me sick when people get lucky, but I guess I got to keep my jealousy down.

N2IT

ipconfig.all wrote: »

I am not down and out, I am still working in I.T and learning and gainning valuable experience and growing it is just life is just hard for me, for some reason I never have luck on my side and I had to work for everything ever since I was a kid, I never got it easy, just makes me sick when people get lucky, but I guess I got to keep my jealousy down.

Having to work for everything is a gift not a curse.

Mojo_666

N2IT wrote: »

Having to work for everything is a gift not a curse.

oooh I dunno, free cash every week would be a gift.

[Deleted User]

N2IT wrote: »

It's these times that define your life and career. Showing fortitude and strength is a great blessing and opportunity.

Just think when you finally get your dream job how hard you are going to work. You are going to spend extra hours there just because you are enjoying the moment. Try saying that about a kid who graduated college and daddy got him a job straight out of college. Trust me you will be a force to be reckon with. The question is can you maintain that strength and keep your chin up. We know that you are down and out, but keep your eye on the prize and remember once you land that gig it will truly all be worth it.

What if that same kid is just as passionate about IT as you are? I understand where you are coming from but some could probably consider me that kid. I recently got a job because of who I know probably not because of what I know. I am pretty nervous about the position but extremely excited to learn. I wouldn't say that a person who worked their way up is more ambitious than I am.

erpadmin

xmalachi wrote: »

What if that same kid is just as passionate about IT as you are? I understand where you are coming from but some could probably consider me that kid. I recently got a job because of who I know probably not because of what I know. I am pretty nervous about the position but extremely excited to learn. I wouldn't say that a person who worked their way up is more ambitious than I am.

First of all, congratulations!

Connections are simply a part of life. Connections will get you a job, but rarely does it mean you get to keep a job (unless of course, you are the son of the owner, and then really, that doesn't even count). Learn what you can, and always remain humble, and you will get the next job on your own merits. I was also that "kid" so I know what it's like. I also know what it's like to get a job with no hook (my current one). Trust me, that's when you know that you made it.

Until then, go through your growing pains (you're gonna have them), have fun and don't be so terribly nervous.

N2IT

xmalachi wrote: »

What if that same kid is just as passionate about IT as you are? I understand where you are coming from but some could probably consider me that kid. I recently got a job because of who I know probably not because of what I know. I am pretty nervous about the position but extremely excited to learn. I wouldn't say that a person who worked their way up is more ambitious than I am.

I would say on average the person who worked there way up is. You and I don't have any data to back up our opinions, so we will leave it at that.


Oh and I almost forgot congratz on the new job. Exciting times!

Paul Boz

It’s nice in that it provides for many different paths to success, but sometimes I wish it was more clear-cut. My wife is about to graduate with her BA in kinesiology in December then has two to three years of physical therapy school. Once she’s done with that she’s pretty much guaranteed work in her field doing specifically what she studied and trained for. There really isn’t anything like that for IT. I think the cause of this is the constantly evolving nature of IT. Traditional school tracks such as medicine and law or generally pretty static. New developments occur within educational institutions so the change control on the material is much easier. Contrast that with the field of IT, where in one decade you went from Windows 2000 server to virtual environments, cloud computing, wireless, etc. There just isn’t a logical way to speed up acadamia to the pace of IT. This leaves wide open opportunity for those who are enterprising, but more often than not you have to catch lucky breaks to get in good in this field.

[Deleted User]

erpadmin wrote: »

First of all, congratulations!

Connections are simply a part of life. Connections will get you a job, but rarely does it mean you get to keep a job (unless of course, you are the son of the owner, and then really, that doesn't even count). Learn what you can, and always remain humble, and you will get the next job on your own merits. I was also that "kid" so I know what it's like. I also know what it's like to get a job with no hook (my current one). Trust me, that's when you know that you made it.

Until then, go through your growing pains (you're gonna have them), have fun and don't be so terribly nervous.

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement. I totally understand what you are saying and agree that this is just a stepping stone to getting a job with the help of no one but myself.

I would say on average the person who worked there way up is. You and I don't have any data to back up our opinions, so we will leave it at that.


Oh and I almost forgot congratz on the new job. Exciting times!

Thanks! I was mostly playing devil's advocate although it is true. I agree there is no data I was mostly curious about what you thought about that. Thanks for your honest opinion!

erpadmin

Paul Boz wrote: »

It’s nice in that it provides for many different paths to success, but sometimes I wish it was more clear-cut. My wife is about to graduate with her BA in kinesiology in December then has two to three years of physical therapy school. Once she’s done with that she’s pretty much guaranteed work in her field doing specifically what she studied and trained for. There really isn’t anything like that for IT. I think the cause of this is the constantly evolving nature of IT. Traditional school tracks such as medicine and law or generally pretty static. New developments occur within educational institutions so the change control on the material is much easier. Contrast that with the field of IT, where in one decade you went from Windows 2000 server to virtual environments, cloud computing, wireless, etc. There just isn’t a logical way to speed up acadamia to the pace of IT. This leaves wide open opportunity for those who are enterprising, but more often than not you have to catch lucky breaks to get in good in this field.

You're right. Academia's answer to the ever-so-changing world on IT is to focus on the theoretical and academic nature of IT. Those are your guys who are programming the code for routers, switches, O/Ses, etc and the guys who design the circuitry for those and other devices. We, on the other hand, are implementing/maintaining those devices and every now and then designing the way those devices are used. Many of us learn that stuff on the job. There's no book to read, or class to take because like snowflakes, no IT shop is the same. The basics of how you do your job may/may not be the same, depending on what the shop is and the political forces that dictates how the shop operate. There are still some shops where they still tell the business what to do. (Those are in the minority though...this ain't the 90s anymore).

But because of how IT is, I'm actually kind of glad that there isn't a straight "education path" like there is for doctors and lawyers. You have people of all sorts of backgrounds...degreed and non-degreed. And if they are degreed, they have it in a completely different field.

But sadly, I think the reason folks are "unlucky" is because they went to some school that promised them $100k a year after 6 months of dumping for the MCSE/CCNA and probably expensive loans to pay for that. Or they picked up some IT career guide from 1997 that promised $200k with no experience. If people want to be in IT, they definitely can. I see a bunch of jobs for XP to Windows 7 migration rollouts from time to time. As well as other contract work to gain experience.

[Deleted User]

erpadmin wrote: »

You're right. Academia's answer to the ever-so-changing world on IT is to focus on the theoretical and academic nature of IT. Those are your guys who are programming the code for routers, switches, O/Ses, etc and the guys who design the circuitry for those and other devices. We, on the other hand, are implementing/maintaining those devices and every now and then designing the way those devices are used. Many of us learn that stuff on the job. There's no book to read, or class to take because like snowflakes, no IT shop is the same. The basics of how you do your job may/may not be the same, depending on what the shop is and the political forces that dictates how the shop operate. There are still some shops where they still tell the business what to do. (Those are in the minority though...this ain't the 90s anymore).

But because of how IT is, I'm actually kind of glad that there isn't a straight "education path" like there is for doctors and lawyers. You have people of all sorts of backgrounds...degreed and non-degreed. And if they are degreed, they have it in a completely different field.

But sadly, I think the reason folks are "unlucky" is because they went to some school that promised them $100k a year after 6 months of dumping for the MCSE/CCNA and probably expensive loans to pay for that. Or they picked up some IT career guide from 1997 that promised $200k with no experience. If people want to be in IT, they definitely can. I see a bunch of jobs for XP to Windows 7 migration rollouts from time to time. As well as other contract work to gain experience.

I always laughed at those commercials on the radio promising you that you could be a "Microsoft Certified Professional making $50,000 after just one month of training". I think the approach that some community colleges/WGU are using is beneficial to the IT community. Getting people hands on experience with equipment (i.e. Cisco Networking Academy) or providing them with the classes and material to get certified. While this still doesn't define a career path it provides a more conventional way of learning the material to become an IT professional.

Devilsbane

xmalachi wrote: »

What if that same kid is just as passionate about IT as you are? I understand where you are coming from but some could probably consider me that kid. I recently got a job because of who I know probably not because of what I know. I am pretty nervous about the position but extremely excited to learn. I wouldn't say that a person who worked their way up is more ambitious than I am.

Being excited to learn is often better than another who knows but doesn't want to learn. That eagerness can go a long way and employers like that.

it_consultant

I think there ought to be an apprentice / journeyman / craftsmen / master type of license for IT in the main fields. I think IT is new enough that unlike in other trades, where we are sure of the difference between a plumber and an HVAC guy. People just aren't aware that there is a considerably different skillset between a programmer and a network guy.

Of course some plumbers are also HVAC guys. Some SQL guys are also network admins. We don't do a good job of delineating the different skills that fall under the umbrella of "IT".

Mojo_666

it_consultant wrote: »

I think there ought to be an apprentice / journeyman / craftsmen / master type of license for IT in the main fields.

I thought that's what helpdesk was for?