Do you ever wish IT careers were more clear cut?

This is something I've been thinking about lately. In most professions you go college or a trade school to learn how to do that job, but in IT there's no real clear cut path for success. It seems like everybody I talk to in IT has a different background. Some went to college and some didn't. And even the ones that did don't always have a degree in an IT related field. Some people learned their skills in the military while others worked their way up from the help desk. Some people get lucky and get high level positions right out of school or because of their connections. Some people have tons of certifications and others have none at all. It all becomes pretty confusing when you think about it. I remember in college the only majors related to computers were Computer Science and CIS. I know I didn't want to be a programmer and CIS seemed more like a business major. So, I ended up getting a liberal arts degree which hasn't done jack for me in IT. If you want to be a nurse, you go to nursing school. If you want to be a doctor, you go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer...well you get the idea. I guess I'm just kind of venting here. Do any of you guys feel the same way though?

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veritas_libertas

Mojo_666 wrote: »

I thought that's what helpdesk was for?

Exactly...

In fact, I know that some hospital IT departments start you off on the Help Desk no matter what your background is.

it_consultant

Mojo_666 wrote: »

I thought that's what helpdesk was for?

A SQL guy should not start in a help desk. The help desk is a catch all for network admins, like myself.

N2IT

it_consultant wrote: »

A SQL guy should not start in a help desk. The help desk is a catch all for network admins, like myself.

But sometimes they do.......

Which is bizarre to say the least

Bl8ckr0uter

N2IT wrote: »

But sometimes they do.......

Which is bizarre to say the least

Why? I think every IT pro can benefit from working on a help desk at some point in their career.

nicklauscombs

knwminus wrote: »

Why? I think every IT pro can benefit from working on a help desk at some point in their career.

agreed, the technical and even more so the non-technical skills learned from these types of jobs will benefit you for the rest of your career.

it_consultant

Let me rephrase, I tend to look at things through my network admin lens. A SQL guy will probably work in a help desk that deals with SQL problems. Whereas I worked in a help desk where I said things like "have you tried rebooting that?". So yes, generally speaking the help desk is where most of us end up.

I think it would be better to have an apprenticeship system though. If someone followed me around for 4 years they would be better than if they spent 4 years doing help desk work. Oddly, I still fix desktops on occasion even though its been a long time since I have worked desktop support. There is no getting away from it!

ssampier

I don't know, I think some HR reps think it's clear cut. According to some I shouldn't be working in IT since I don't have a CS degree.

I enjoy the work, though, but I probably could never handle the math of a CS degree. I rarely used algebra in my day-to-day job.

RobertKaucher

it_consultant wrote: »

A SQL guy should not start in a help desk. The help desk is a catch all for network admins, like myself.

I disagree with this 100%.

A SQL guy can certainly start out on a help desk. I did a ton of user support at the start of my IT career and it forged an amazing ability for me to troubleshoot and was where my knowledge of networking and general IT fundamentals were really solidified. I think help desk is like a summer job when you are 15/16 doing very hard manual labor. It builds character.

Devilsbane

knwminus wrote: »

Why? I think every IT pro can benefit from working on a help desk at some point in their career.

I agree with this. It doesn't matter what you want to do, having an understand of where the bottom of the chain is and what it does is beneficial. How is a SQL admin that much different than a Network or Server admin?

Paul Boz

Cutting your chops on the helpdesk or tech support line hardens you. Its a part of putting in your dues. I think its important to start at the bottom because it makes you appreciate the small guys when you move up. You can generally tell who never worked in tech support because they're usually jerks to the help desk. I go out of the way to be humble and respectful to the helpdesk because I've been there.

Something else I've noticed is that generally tech support is full of people who actually like computers. As I've moved up I've found that more people are working in IT but hate the technology.

Devilsbane

Paul Boz wrote: »

Something else I've noticed is that generally tech support is full of people who actually like computers. As I've moved up I've found that more people are working in IT but hate the technology.

True. There are people where I work that send a ticket to the service desk, anytime that something comes their way and it isn't something they do. Even if the service desk didn't send it to them. They are too lazy to find out who did and expect that the service desk will send it to the right place. On the otherhand, some people will call and say "Hey this ticket is assigned to me, and I don't know where it should go. Can you help me out"

Or people send emails with a single line that says "X application isn't working" Yeah... I can't read minds.

erpadmin

it_consultant wrote: »

Let me rephrase, I tend to look at things through my network admin lens. A SQL guy will probably work in a help desk that deals with SQL problems. Whereas I worked in a help desk where I said things like "have you tried rebooting that?". So yes, generally speaking the help desk is where most of us end up.

I think it would be better to have an apprenticeship system though. If someone followed me around for 4 years they would be better than if they spent 4 years doing help desk work. Oddly, I still fix desktops on occasion even though its been a long time since I have worked desktop support. There is no getting away from it!

Like Robert, I also started out as help desk. Actually, I was a jack-of-all-trades when I started. Now, I just administer SQL Server (2000 and 2005) with some sys admin work. If someone wants to stay in help desk, nothing wrong with that; it's an honorable profession. But most of us who didn't want to stay there, wanted to aspire to the admin side of things. But help desk is a great place to start in IT (sometimes, could be the only place you start in IT...you can't walk before you crawl...).

erpadmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

How is a SQL admin that much different than a Network or Server admin?

I will give you server admin (I can't do my job if I couldn't administer my database servers and I need to be able to create a failover cluster), but a network admin is a bit different. I don't need to create network segments/VLANs to do my job. Can I do it, is a different story, but that's pretty much a "not-my-job" type of deal.

veritas_libertas

Devilsbane wrote: »

Or people send emails with a single line that says "X application isn't working" Yeah... I can't read minds.

LOL, we have an outsourced Help Desk that does that...

@PaulBoz: I worked Help Desk for about six-months and gained respect for Help Desk workers during that time. Working the Help Desk taught me a number of new things:

1. How to ask questions properly.
2. How to walk people through the maze that we call Windows.
3. How to work with difficult people.

The Help Desk in my mind is a wonderful thing. Good Help Desk workers that have the ability to picture a problem in their head and avoid escalating the problem to me are my friends!

N2IT

knwminus wrote: »

Why? I think every IT pro can benefit from working on a help desk at some point in their career.

I am talking about someone who has SQL experience, not certifications and a degree.

Example guy who has a few DBA certs and a degree with little to no experience, then yeah for sure. But if someone who has several years of experience backing up SQL servers and writing stored procedures then I think that would be bizarre

I reread the post. We are talking about starting off. I stand corrected.

Believe me I am a help desk guy. I side on the side of the service desk / help desk

Devilsbane

N2IT wrote: »

But if someone who has several years of experience backing up SQL servers and writing stored procedures then I think that would be bizarre

Just as bizarre as if an Active Directory administrator with several years experience went for a helpdesk job?

The point that he is trying to make is that everyone in IT should start in a helpdesk job. The guy in your example already has "several years of experience backing up SQL servers and writing stored procedures" wouldn't need to go to helpdesk because he already started.

EDIT: I started writing my post before you edited yours (got interrupted). I see where you are coming from now.

earweed

I had a recruiter who is supposedly representing me say I should bypass helpdesk due to my experience (very little) as a pc tech and a tech on HDTV's. I think I should at least experience it as it'll give me some insight into what helpdesk does. I've gotten phone interviews and regular interviews since seeing the recruiter just on my own. I think that recruiter basically forgot me (except for my bi-weekly emails to him) as he has gottenme zip since I wasted an hours drive to do a face to face interview with him.
Everyone should spend some time at help desk when starting out. I would definitely work my ass off to get out of there though. Like was said earlier in this thread that's the bottom of the food chain.

erpadmin

earweed wrote: »

I had a recruiter who is supposedly representing me say I should bypass helpdesk due to my experience (very little) as a pc tech and a tech on HDTV's. I think I should at least experience it as it'll give me some insight into what helpdesk does. I've gotten phone interviews and regular interviews since seeing the recruiter just on my own. I think that recruiter basically forgot me (except for my bi-weekly emails to him) as he has gottenme zip since I wasted an hours drive to do a face to face interview with him.
Everyone should spend some time at help desk when starting out. I would definitely work my ass off to get out of there though. Like was said earlier in this thread that's the bottom of the food chain.

If it's you, I would definitely shoot for a smaller shop, then. Be a jack-of-all-trades kinda guy. You will deal with phones, the tracking system, the face-to-face interaction with users, and backend work. At least with something like that, you would have "put your time in" as a help desk dude. Non-profits are great for that.

ipconfig.all

none needs to start at helpdesk and none needs to be a helpdesk person they should do what they wannt to do but helpdesk jobs are easy to get than others

N2IT

Devilsbane wrote: »

Just as bizarre as if an Active Directory administrator with several years experience went for a helpdesk job?

The point that he is trying to make is that everyone in IT should start in a helpdesk job. The guy in your example already has "several years of experience backing up SQL servers and writing stored procedures" wouldn't need to go to helpdesk because he already started.

EDIT: I started writing my post before you edited yours (got interrupted). I see where you are coming from now.

I agree anyone without experience is subject to the help desk. I'll use my baseball analogy.

Tier 1 I guess would be AA ball and Tier 2 would be AAA ball. Then you have the majors, (Management, Project Management, System Admin, Network Admin, Programmers, Database Admins, Application Support, ETC).

Some people are fortunant enough to get selected straight to the tier 3/major leagues, that is usually not the case however. I was never destined for that route. In fact who knows at this point. I might retire a helpdesk employee. (Not that I want that to happen)!

erpadmin

N2IT wrote: »

I agree anyone without experience is subject to the help desk. I'll use my baseball analogy.

Tier 1 I guess would be AA ball and Tier 2 would be AAA ball. Then you have the majors, (Management, Project Management, System Admin, Network Admin, Programmers, Database Admins, Application Support, ETC).

Some people are fortunant enough to get selected straight to the tier 3/major leagues, that is usually not the case however. I was never destined for that route. In fact who knows at this point. I might retire a helpdesk employee. (Not that I want that to happen)!

You used baseball so I can see how why Management, Project Management, etc. is lumped up. Within this group, you got your heavy hitters all star performers, your guys who are ok, but not clutch but definitely don't suck, and then the bench warmers. Management would, without question [like it or not, too] be the heavy hitters, followed by your PMs (who in some orgs are junior managers), followed by Admins (Sys, Network, DBAs) then followed App Support (which would include programmers).

There is a guy at WGU who has no IT experience whatsoever, but is studying for the database emphasis. I don't know anyone who would hire a Oracle DBA straight out of any school (that's what WGU teaches...Oracle). Someone like him, if he goes the help desk route, is going to feel a bit jaded because he won't get to use what he learned for at least 3 years. And if he doesn't even touch Oracle for those 3 years, he's really going to be hurting, as the DB version he might have been good at might be upgraded to something else and/or administration might have radically changed. If you don't use it, you lose it. He was better off going the regular IT track, as at least he'd have a good understanding of how it all works without getting pigeonholed.

NetworkingStudent

smg1138 wrote: »

This is something I've been thinking about lately. In most professions you go college or a trade school to learn how to do that job, but in IT there's no real clear cut path for success. It seems like everybody I talk to in IT has a different background. Some went to college and some didn't. And even the ones that did don't always have a degree in an IT related field. Some people learned their skills in the military while others worked their way up from the help desk. Some people get lucky and get high level positions right out of school or because of their connections. Some people have tons of certifications and others have none at all. It all becomes pretty confusing when you think about it. I remember in college the only majors related to computers were Computer Science and CIS. I know I didn't want to be a programmer and CIS seemed more like a business major. So, I ended up getting a liberal arts degree which hasn't done jack for me in IT. If you want to be a nurse, you go to nursing school. If you want to be a doctor, you go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer...well you get the idea. I guess I'm just kind of venting here. Do any of you guys feel the same way though?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish the degrees and job titles were straight to the point. Many professionals in the medical field obtain the job they went to school for, but in IT it’s a different story. There seems to be so many different paths to take, that at times it can seem very frustrating to try to figure where to start and what to study.
The TE forums have saved my IT education/ life, because there is so much information here that it helps someone like me figure out what I should do to break into the world of IT.

Some gripes I Have about the IT field:
 No one at school tells you that after graduating you will probably need to start off at the help desk, even though you have a networking degree (this is especially true at for profit schools/career colleges)
 There is no set rule or time frame to become a system admin, networking engineer ect.. ect., everyone progresses at their own pace. Each company has their own specific requirements for the technical job they’re posting. For example, some require an MCSE some don’t……
 A lot of the IT professionals I have met at school or through friends and family, do not have any certs; however, it does seem mandatory to obtain them. If you become certified then you can update your skills and progress faster in your chosen career path.
 With the exception of WGU schools don’t stress enough the value of being certified in the felid of IT.
 You can make $15.00 an hour at one company while making $10.00 at another doing almost the same work and in the same state.
 Some of my class mates are interested in programing, but I go to a 4 year career college, and from what I hear the 4 year colleges or universities are better suited for programming degrees.
 A lot of contracting and not enough full time work..
Ok I’m done rambling.. I love IT and look forward to breaking into the field, these are just some of the things that frustrate me…

zerglings

While part of me wish it was clear cut, part of me doesn't want it to be clear cut. Mainly because I feel that I accomplished something and I deserved the career that I am in because I worked hard for it, through experience and not worked hard to get good grades and staying awake inside a classroom. It wasn't implied that if I finished the degree, I am "guaranteed" that I'll be a Doctor, Nurse, Pharmacist, and what have you. Just my 2 cents.

rogue2shadow

N2IT wrote: »

Luck is what happens when opportunity meets preperations.

One of the greatest quotes I've seen thus far since joining this forum.