Is it who you know or what you know?

Where I currently work at it seems if you don't get promoted within the first year you are yesterdays news and aren't viewed all that highly. Of course that is just from my view point, but yesterday we got the news one of our contractors who just recently graduated from college would be moving on. He was there for 3-4 months and now he will be a junior SA for a LARGE defense contracting agency. The pay bump is insanely large for this person. We are talking twice his salary.

This isn't another "don't waste your time unless you know someone thread". Instead it's a trending thread about employement

So my question is this. Do you really have a small window in IT when working a low level entry job like Service Desk or Operations/Data Center until you are a non factor? Or do you almost have to know someone to get a good job? Is this the norm or am I just being naive?

I know personally 4 people in the last 2 years who were either promoted internally or externally and all 4 of them knew someone. Two were internal both had parents work for the company and shot through the ranks and the other two knew of people outside of work. One is for an SA position and the other a Telecom job. Neither had certifications.

Only one who didn't have connections on his own and he had to go back to school and get his bachelors and then his master, which he is almost done with. Plus he has A+ and N+. He also spent 3 years in the service desk mostly in tier 2. So he obviously didn't get preferential treatment, but still........ That's one out of 5.

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Hyper-Me

Its what you know about who you know.

Chris:/*

It Is Both:

A few of my contracting buds recommended to me a few years ago that you change your job or company every three years. You increase your breadth of knowledge and your contact list. In addition three separate jobs over a nine year time span with different skills looks better than one job with the same job for nine years. As they put it, that makes you look like you are hiding in a comfy spot.

They also said knowing people will give a nudge through artificial road blocks used to test people’s desire. If you know someone from before you got the job they can help you get past points setup to slow entry level staff down from progressing too quickly.

What you know means you can do your job and maybe do it well.

Who you know means people like you and hopefully it is the right people.

It is how they game is played knowing the rules will let you become a Champion quicker than someone who tries not to play the game. At the same time there is no substance without knowledge, you can know all the people in the world but not knowing your job will eventually lead to the same door wherever you go.

laptop

Mojo_666 wrote: »

I had help once when I was working for an ISP, I was studying everyday for a year or so and a mate of mine recomended to his manager that he interview me for a 1/2 line support position. I was still up against a 10 others but I got the job, that was 11 years ago, since then I just had to work hard and move arround to go up the ranks.

My advice to anyone is do not stay in your current job if you want to move up the ranks, move on and set your own time scales for promotion.

This guy has the best advice. I would say...shouldn't stay more than 2.5 years with the same company.

To answer the OP's question, I think it's more of who you know. They can help you get the interview. But you have to prove that you know your material during the interview. But, the interviewers usually favor candidates who were referred.

erpadmin

laptop wrote: »

This guy has the best advice. I would say...shouldn't stay more than 2.5 years with the same company.

I will respectfully disagree with this. There is nothing wrong staying in a company for more than 3-5 years provided you can prove that your responsibilities improved substantially. Also, there may be strategic reasons for staying at a place...but I am always of the belief that stability will trump those who jump around.

smg1138

It's all about who you know. I lost out on a job a few weeks ago because of this kind of nepotism. I went through 3 intensive interviews and they were going to hire me when another guy suddenly came along who just happened to know the CIO of the company. Well, you can probably guess what happened. He only had to go through 1 interview, which basically seemed like a formality, and got the job immediately. Experience, college degrees, and certifications are nothing compared to the power of knowing someone in an important position. Unfortunately, that's just the way the world works. That's something they don't teach you in school.

Devilsbane

erpadmin wrote: »

I will respectfully disagree with this. There is nothing wrong staying in a company for more than 3-5 years provided you can prove that your responsibilities improved substantially. Also, there may be strategic reasons for staying at a place...but I am always of the belief that stability will trump those who jump around.

I really hope thats how it goes. I don't want to spend my life hopping around, but if that is where the money is and what the HR goons want to see then I guess I have no choice.

Mojo_666

erpadmin wrote: »

I will respectfully disagree with this. There is nothing wrong staying in a company for more than 3-5 years provided you can prove that your responsibilities improved substantially. Also, there may be strategic reasons for staying at a place...but I am always of the belief that stability will trump those who jump around.

I am old enough to have done both, jumping paid off for me in the long run knowledge wise. Only one company I have worked for was worth staying with and I was with them 4 years til they went belly up and got sold. I am about to start at another, all the rest were not worth it, if your are not happy or satisfied you need to move on, when you end up somewhere that satisfies you then stay, not all companies are equal, a lot of them (most of them) suck and you owe it yourselves to find the good ones.

erpadmin

Mojo_666 wrote: »

I am old enough to have done both, jumping paid off for me in the long run knowledge wise. Only one company I have worked for was worth staying with and I was with them 4 years til they went belly up and got sold. I am about to start at another, all the rest were not worth it, if your are not happy or satisfied you need to move on, when you end up somewhere that satisfies you then stay, not all companies are equal, a lot of them (most of them) suck and you owe it yourselves to find the good ones.

I never said/or meant that if you are unhappy at a job, you must suffer at a place (in fact I read my post again, just to be sure...

) . But if one is happy at a job and there is no reason to bounce around, then you shouldn't leave just because it's the 3, 4, 5 year mark. There has to be a strategy to everything you do, whether you bounce or you stay. But leaving a job for the sake of leaving when misery does not exist....I am not ok with that.

Mojo_666

erpadmin wrote: »

I never said/or meant that if you are unhappy at a job, you must suffer at a place (in fact I read my post again, just to be sure... ) . But if one is happy at a job and there is no reason to bounce around, then you shouldn't leave just because it's the 3, 4, 5 year mark. There has to be a strategy to everything you do, whether you bounce or you stay. But leaving a job for the sake of leaving when misery does not exist....I am not ok with that.

Gotcha, seems we are on the same page (A page I own btw, I will be sending you a rent book this week)

erpadmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

I really hope thats how it goes. I don't want to spend my life hopping around, but if that is where the money is and what the HR goons want to see then I guess I have no choice.

You don't see it yet....but you will at a later part of your career. Especially when you have a family.

Hopping around is a game of and for the young. (Trust me, I know....

)

erpadmin

Mojo_666 wrote: »

Gotcha, seems we are on the same page (A page I own btw, I will be sending you a rent book this week)

Hope you don't plan on retiring from that.....you will be very poor...

laptop

I just want to go off topic a little.

Although I am new to IT, I think hopping jobs every 2-3 years is the fastest way to earn more money and bigger job titles. You will be exposed to more responsibilities, tools, applications, people, opportunities, and see what's out there. My coworker told me that I should switch jobs to gain different experiences to earn a bulk of my income within the first 10 years then stabilize/secure a job when you have kids/family.

If someone likes their job and prefer not to hop jobs, then it's by choice. Let's say you start off with a salary of 35,000. If a company gives me only 5% raise per year, it will take you at least a couple of years to reach the 45k mark unless you get promoted. If its a large corp, it's harder to get recognized than a small-medium organization.

Everyone has different goals. I'm in my mid-20's and my goal is $$$$ right now.

Devilsbane

laptop wrote: »

If someone likes their job and prefer not to hop jobs, then it's by choice. Let's say you start off with a salary of 35,000. If a company gives me only 5% raise per year, it will take you at least a couple of years to reach the 45k mark unless you get promoted. If its a large corp, it's harder to get recognized than a small-medium organization.

Everyone has different goals. I'm in my mid-20's and my goal is $$$$ right now.

Your raise will only be 5% if you stay in the same job at that company. You are certainly free to move up within the same company to earn higher raises without exposing yourself to job jumping.

If your company doesn't promote from within, or if there are no jobs available, then maybe you should consider a company change to find one with more and better opportunities.

erpadmin

Devilsbane wrote: »

Your raise will only be 5% if you stay in the same job at that company. You are certainly free to move up within the same company to earn higher raises without exposing yourself to job jumping.

If your company doesn't promote from within, or if there are no jobs available, then maybe you should consider a company change to find one with more and better opportunities.

Exactly! If I had stayed at my first job in IT, I'd probably would be breaking $50k this year. LOL.

I just want to reiterate that if you are starting out and are young, you most certainly should get the maximum amount you can. Once you are have the experience, it is perfectly ok to stay at a place provided that you are happy and you are able to grow within the organization without resorting to some sort of kneeling, if you get what I mean. Between costs of living increases and steps, I'll see close to 7%-9% a year. Meanwhile, management gets squat, and hates that we're almost close in salary to them. I personally use that to my advantage. If I can show the next gig that I'm just as capable as management by using my job spec, their job requirements and my BS degree (maybe working on my Masters, but with the years of experience I have, that might be ok, maybe), I'm probably golden.

As I said, bouncing around for the sake of bouncing around is useless. If there is a plan, it will make more sense. But if you're a jack-of-all-trades tech making $40k, and you jump ship to do a desktop support job making $50....that's just very unwise, careerwise. Taking a career-cut for a pay jump is NEVER good.