College Vs. Certs

sthompson86

Hello guys, The subject line of this thread has to be the question of my life at this point. Do I go to a 4 year school or do I seek max certifications?

I know the stereotypical fell over response is of course go to a 4 year school. I would like to go on to a 4 year school, but I am in a 2 year computer IT program in which I graduate in December. I AM SICK OF SCHOOL! lol One of the main reasons I am not interested in a 4 year school is for one I am not willing to travel, and secondly the colleges that are around me (Jackson Ms) only offer programming degrees, and I just cant justify spending money on a 4 year degree that persues something I do not care to do.

My goal is to eventually become a Network Admin, and my main hope is that I can obtain that position without a 4 year degree. If I knew I could get away with just having certifications I would not be asking this question, and I would not be worried at all.

I work now as a PC tech intern at Ergon, The CIO here over the IT dept told me that I could make it as a "tech" with a 2 year degree, but that if I ever wanted to take a managment role I would need that 4 year degree. Right now in my life managment just doesnt have an appeal to me.


Nonetheless, what do you guys think? Am I doomed if I do not get that 4 year diploma? ;p

Thanks in advanced.

puppy001

You do not need a degree to become a network admin or a network engineer or even a system engineer or a system admin. Experience will help. If you want to be something like a cio or a i.t manager u need a degree, the right contacts will always help in getting an I.T job, it is all about networking 1!!!!

veritas_libertas

Since most jobs I have seen require at least a 4-year degree or equivalent experience than I would do a bachelor degree. This is an often argued over topic on TE.


http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/57012-degree-worth.html

powerfool

Do both.

Look into WGU (Online University | Online Degree | Accredited Bachelor's and Master's Degrees). They have a good online program that would better suite your goals and you would accomplish certifications and a degree simultaneously.

While you certainly can get a job without a degree, there are certain opportunities that become closed to you. Keep your options open and differentiate yourself.

xenodamus

Hello there from a fellow Mississippian...

I think a 4 year degree becomes more important the further you get into your IT career. I graduated from Hinds Community College in 2006 with an AAS in Network Support. Since then I've gotten my A+ and CCENT (soon to be CCNA in 1 week). I'm 24 right now and work right down the road from you (literally) at St. Dominic's Hospital making $50k as a Desktop Support Analyst.

So, no, you don't NEED a 4 year degree to make a decent living. I plan on getting my bachelor's from WGU online in the next few years, but I feel like I'm doing ok without one for now.

Nice to see other folks from the Jackson area on here. I live in Simpson County but drive up here everyday. Where are you attending college?

tbgree00

I think there is a lot of power in a 4 year degree. In the eyes of the hiring departments and management world it says that you're able to set goals, stick with something, and see it through. I was told that it didn't matter so much what my degree was in so long as it was completed. The strength of the school's reputation can also be a big help. It turned my two month temp to hire position into a hire after three days. The manager heard a lot of good things about it and the vice president graduated from there so I was given a bit of special treatment.

Am I saying you should waste time travelling to participate in a degree that you "do not care to do"? Not at all. If you don't see value in it you won't get much out of it, plain and simple. WGU is pretty popular around here and gets a lot of certifications along with a degree. I don't know if anyone else can comment on that degree meaning a better job or a raise. You could probably check the dedicated threads.

Mojo_666

I am doing quite well without a degree myself but even so I have considered doing one, but then I keep landing good jobs so never follow through with it.

sthompson86

xenodamus wrote: »

Hello there from a fellow Mississippian...

I think a 4 year degree becomes more important the further you get into your IT career. I graduated from Hinds Community College in 2006 with an AAS in Network Support. Since then I've gotten my A+ and CCENT (soon to be CCNA in 1 week). I'm 24 right now and work right down the road from you (literally) at St. Dominic's Hospital making $50k as a Desktop Support Analyst.

So, no, you don't NEED a 4 year degree to make a decent living. I plan on getting my bachelor's from WGU online in the next few years, but I feel like I'm doing ok without one for now.

Nice to see other folks from the Jackson area on here. I live in Simpson County but drive up here everyday. Where are you attending college?

Hah small word, I am at Hinds CC also lol. St. Dominics I guess you have to support all thouse ThinkPads. ( had a family freind up there, and saw all the ThinkPads in the hallways in roller trays.

My Buddy in class is from Simpson county - Michael (Benny) Pedin.

Its really good to hear that you are making those kind of figures around here.

sthompson86

For you guys pointing out WGU, I have considered that, and in fact thats how I found Techexams. I am skeptical of WGU just because it seemed like I would just be paying them to get me certified when I could do self study and get the same cert. I know I could not get a bachelor on my own, but I just didnt feel comfortable with WGU. To me it seemed that passing a cert was equivelent to a final exam.

Nothing against WGU, but it just isnt on my list of possible colleges.

veritas_libertas

sthompson86 wrote: »

For you guys pointing out WGU, I have considered that, and in fact thats how I found Techexams. I am skeptical of WGU just because it seemed like I would just be paying them to get me certified when I could do self study and get the same cert. I know I could not get a bachelor on my own, but I just didnt feel comfortable with WGU. To me it seemed that passing a cert was equivelent to a final exam.

Nothing against WGU, but it just isnt on my list of possible colleges.

Well, to be honest I'm bored out of my mind with gen-ed classes right now...

More than 75% of the degree is general education classes.

WGU is not for everyone, and I do not want to push them on anyone.

xenodamus

sthompson86 wrote: »

Hah small word, I am at Hinds CC also lol. St. Dominics I guess you have to support all thouse ThinkPads. ( had a family freind up there, and saw all the ThinkPads in the hallways in roller trays.

Yea, it's always funny to me when I meet people on this forum who live/work around the corner. But, yes.....lots of IBM gear around there. Servers, desktops, laptops, email system....all IBM. Our VP of IT was an executive at IBM for 10-15 years before coming to the hospital.

Hospitals are great places to watch for IT jobs by the way. When you start looking for work keep an eye on all the local hospital's websites. Pretty much all of them list their job openings online.

ssampier

Take your time. I graduated with a Bachelor degree with no experience. I plunged headlong trying to finish the degree. In retrospect, I wish I have taken the time out to really experience life and careers more.

earweed

For your non IT classes where you don't get certs there is a considerable amount of work to be done. The IT classes (except Java programming) all do culminate in your taking a cert test which is in actuality your final exam for the class. The upside of WGU, they are accreditted and if you want to go into a masters program that is required. A lot of jobs which require a college degree (check out usajobs.com sometime for example) require that the degree be from a regionally accreditted school which WGU is. For a lot of jobs on USAjabs.com they require a degree for just helpdesk, not an associates but a bachelors.

brianeaglesfan

I've seen both sides of the fence and thus have pursued both, with an emphasis on formal education. With my current company, also a hospital, most positions are tied to certs... to get into WAN support, a CCNA is necessary, for LAN, an MCSE is necessary, to move up tiers among help desk / desktop support, certain certs are required. But there was also a time when I was seeking a job with an AOS (similar to an AAS) and was told several times that they wanted someone with more education. Thus, I'd highly recommend going for both, and if you're unsure about what computer related degree to pursue you could always go the business route, say finance, management, or accounting. But I wouldn't wait until you're 35 with a family and mortgage before taking the plunge. If nothing else, take advantage of employer tuition assistance and take gen ed courses.

jimmy6067

I feel this is a great question because I once asked myself the same thing. If I were you I would go to a 4 year college as it appears many employers are seeking individuals with such a college education. In addition I would even pursue a Master’s degree. I noticed that you stated that the local colleges do not offer what you are in search of, for this my best advice is to search for REPUTABLE UNIVERISTIES which offer online degree programs. For example, the program I'm currently in at offers both 6wk classes which you must attend or you can go the online route in which classes are 10wks long. One thing I enjoy about the program that I'm currently in is that alot of courses to some extent focus on certs.

sthompson86

jimmy6067 wrote: »

, for this my best advice is to search for REPUTABLE UNIVERISTIES which offer online degree programs.

This is what I have been considering Georgia Southern University I like that fact that its an actual brick and mortar school, and that program is what I will most likeley do if I go the 4 year school rout.

veritas_libertas

Do you live in Georgia?

erpadmin

sthompson86,

This one is definitely for you (or perhaps anyone else who may be in the same bind):

I got into IT fulltime at the age of 19 (I'm 33 now). All I know is IT and I have done help desk, desktop support, network support, server support, to now being a fulltime DBA/Systems/Server admin for Enterprise Resource Planning (PeopleSoft specifically, hence the name erpadmin). Prior to 7 years ago, I was an IT generalist (jack-(***) of all trades, master of none). I needed to specialize in something. I also wanted to have a social life. Something had to give, and so I gave up college and put in for booze, women, etc., etc. When you give a kid money that his father's making and this kid has no responsibilities....it's just asking for trouble.

To this day, I regret not finishing my degree. I do not regret the choices I made in my career, but man I can't tell you how much it hurts that my input gets asked for major decisions, but because I don't have a degree, MY BOSS will get the credit! What hurts even more is that my boss says I am technically qualified to do his job....but I don't even have a bachelor's degree so management will not happen until I get one. I spent years trying to figure out what to do about that and how quickly a legitimate degree can be obtained. For my purposes, WGU fits the bill, as it's regionally accredited AND I can go to a B&M for my Masters, to boot! (Which will be free since I work at a university....lol).

Trust me, you're a young man at 24...soon, your priorities are going to change, and you're not even going to care about implementing new technologies, but actually driving that implementation. You don't know or see it yet, but you will.

I did try an online B&M route (UMASS-Lowell)....but it would have taken me 10 years and a boatload of money to do it....WGU, you actually work. My research paper is kicking my butt right now. I have time to complete that paper, but I want to work on my MS certs but can't until this paper is done. But I have work, wifey, and other things called life that sometimes get in the way....but I will complete WGU.....I just want to break into IT management before the end of my career. Then I will feel like I accomplished something.

Hopefully you take something from that glimpse into my background and hopefully apply it to your own situation.

sthompson86

@Erpadim - Yea I do not want to hit any walls and that is what I am worried about..

For you guys that are taking online programs are you all balancing this with having a full time job? and if so how many classes would you guys recommend taking in a semester?

N2IT

I've got something else to throw in the mix. What about certifications of specializations and/or proficiencies?

You see these offered at some of the community colleges and Universities. They aren't a BA or BS, but they aren't just one class either, usually.

You see ones for database, business, programming, networking, etc. How do you all feel about those?

I ask because there is a database one at the community college which consist of 16 hours. 5 classes alone are Oracle based and there is two programming classes and a few others.

First of all would you list that as a certification of xxxxxxxx on your resume?
Do employers recognize that type of education, is there much ROI or value in your opinion?

rwmidl

If you're burned out with school, have you considered maybe looking into IT opportunities with the military?

veritas_libertas

sthompson86 wrote: »

For you guys that are taking online programs are you all balancing this with having a full time job? and if so how many classes would you guys recommend taking in a semester?

Yup

I will say that at times I experience burnout from this combination.

erpadmin

sthompson86 wrote: »

@Erpadim - Yea I do not want to hit any walls and that is what I am worried about..

For you guys that are taking online programs are you all balancing this with having a full time job? and if so how many classes would you guys recommend taking in a semester?

I work 40 hours a week...spend an hour or so with the wifey, and then try a couple to few hours a night and then hope that I have a full weekend to wrap up what I need to wrap up. Right now I only have three classes to do and I already completed 4 (one being Security+). This really isn't easy, but for the working professional, it really is the best option. To be sitting in a class room with a bunch of undergrads getting ready for a kegger is not something I want to do. A Masters is a bit different though, as you're dealing with people who are already professionals and/or are done living the undergrad lifestyle (for the most part). Getting my degree online lets me work at my own pace without killing myself. Though this paper I'm working on is no joke. I even purposely chose a topic that I had to do research on, while at the same time was already familiar with it. (I did not want to talk about technology....that would have really been too easy and the purpose of college really is to challenge yourself... ).

I'll have fun writing about technology when I do my technical writing class.

Chris:/*

sthompson86 wrote: »

@Erpadim - Yea I do not want to hit any walls and that is what I am worried about..

For you guys that are taking online programs are you all balancing this with having a full time job? and if so how many classes would you guys recommend taking in a semester?

If you have never been to school especially online start with two. One is to little two is a good start and will keep you active teaching you time managment a major skill that will follow you everywhere.

sthompson86

Chris:/* wrote: »

If you have never been to school especially online start with two. One is to little two is a good start and will keep you active teaching you time managment a major skill that will follow you everywhere.

Yea I am in a A.A.S program now at a local CC. As for online classes ehhh never done those, and the frustration I have seen my wife go through with online classes leads me to a skeptic no doubt lol

I would probably do a couple of academics to feel things out. The academics maths etc is what I am worried about.. I have been very lucky, found ways around college algebra for these past 2 years LOL

mikej412

sthompson86 wrote: »

The CIO here over the IT dept told me that I could make it as a "tech" with a 2 year degree

He's correct. Plus with "just" a 2 year degree they can justify paying you less. Any possibility of that internship turning into a reasonably paying full time job after you finish your 2 year degree?

Not having a 4 year degree could limit your options down the road and it's possible you may be excluded from consideration for jobs that you're otherwise qualified to perform.

As others have already mentioned you do have options for continuing your education while you simultaneously do battle with real life.

jimmy6067

This appears as a good school, but I would hope that you have reviewed the course list. If you have not, take a look at the following link and see if this is the type of program you desire WebBSIT . I say this because I attended a program like this at PSU and then transferred to Drexel U. specifically because they have a nice security focused program. Another thing you can search for are schools that offer Sat. classes. Again I say this because this is how my program is designed, meaning all my classes are all on Sat. (my classes are only six weeks long, we meet only six times, and each class is 4 hours long)
and I notice a lot of older individuals, whom work, have a family, bills to pay etc. in this program. Anyway I'm not trying to be a salesman but if their is a program like this in your area that would be another route to take since you are most likely working etc. during the week.

sthompson86

mikej412 wrote: »

Any possibility of that internship turning into a reasonably paying full time job after you finish your 2 year degree?

Yes, I do believe that is in the works for when I graduate in December. I atleast hope it is.. lol

mikej412

sthompson86 wrote: »

Yes, I do believe that is in the works for when I graduate in December.

The internship already puts you ahead of your peers in the job market -- and having a job waiting for you when you graduate is even better

It's the combination of education, certification, and experience -- and a bit of luck -- that help you get that first IT job, keep it, and then advance past it. But having some people skills and (social/professional) networking skill also helps.

The certifications and education might fill in check boxes on some HR wonks check list for passing your resume around for review and granting you a job interview, but it's ultimately the knowledge and skills you gained from your studies that you can demonstrate during the interview PLUS the experience you've gained applying and growing that knowledge and skills in your past jobs that you use to impress your interviewer(s) into giving you your next job.

Slowhand

I understand the burnout feeling of school, but I can't even begin to tell you how important it is to have a four-year degree if you plan on moving up the IT ladder in the future.

That being said, here's what I would do if I were in your position with your particular set of circumstances: finish the A.A.S. degree and take a break from school. Find an IT-related job, even if it's helpdesk or a junior-level position, and start working on certs. If you keep it up, you will have a pretty well-rounded resume after a year or two, and the burnout feeling from work and certs might just be enough to put you back in the mindset that school wasn't so bad, after all, and you can look back into the IT degree at GSU.

By the time you walk out with that B.S. degree you'll not only be more than ready to return to the workforce, you'll also have some certs and some solid work-experience to back it up and you are that much more likely to find the kind of IT work you want to do.

Chris:/*

You have to be careful about taking breaks, most people who take a break never return. They remember being burnt out and tired which over shadows any thought of career progression. Often people start justifying why they need a longer break. I had it happen to me and a number of friends. Keep your goal in site and just think of it like Basic Trainee make it meal to meal lights out to lights out.