Combining a CCNA with an MCSA?

wolverene13

milanchatterjee wrote: »

Please guys. Do not fight like children here, just over the choice of some words. Whether it is "medium" or "small" or "large" what does it matter.


Milan

Yeah, let's not try to whip it out and determine whose network is larger. [insert groans related to pun/innuendo here]

wolverene13

erpadmin wrote: »

Yeah there is a school in my area (NYC metro) that advertises $50k-$75k with all of the aforementioned certs. This isn't the '90s anymore though.....those guys will be lucky if they make a third to half that amount after graduating from a school like that. Everytime I read that ad on the train I always laugh.

I wouldn't totally discount that. The first job I got after getting my NA paid $51k. It depends on where you are and what type of role you're in.

erpadmin

wolverene13 wrote: »

I wouldn't totally discount that. The first job I got after getting my NA paid $51k. It depends on where you are and what type of role you're in.

In Florida? Wow.....you are definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Couple things missing though....

1) What level of experience did you have when you got your first job after your CCNA?

2) What type of job did you get? (network engineer? network admin?)

3) Do you also have a college degree?

4) When did you get your first job? And under what circumstances? (Did you know someone? etc.)

I don't discredit you or your accomplishments...especially if this is in FL, where the job market isn't quite as nice as it is up here (in terms of salary but as you said, it DEPENDS on your role...) but as I said, you are the exception rather than the rule....especially if your first job was recent.

wolverene13

erpadmin wrote: »

In Florida? Wow.....you are definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Well, here in FL it depends on what you're looking for. There are NOC jobs out the wazoo here. Not sure what the Enterprise job market is like, but it's probably not as good.

erpadmin wrote: »

1) What level of experience did you have when you got your first job after your CCNA?

7 years: 4 in general PC work, 5 in networking (yes, I know, that's 9, but for two years I did both.

erpadmin wrote: »

2) What type of job did you get? (network engineer? network admin?)

Tier I NOC tech - Not traditional Tier I, though (aka, ticket monkey). We actually had enable/root access on the network and could make changes. We didn't just make tickets and pass them to someone else.

erpadmin wrote: »

3) Do you also have a college degree?

Yes, B.A. in Communications.

erpadmin wrote: »

4) When did you get your first job? And under what circumstances? (Did you know someone? etc.)

I got it 2 years ago, literally 6 days before the stock market "crashed" (not my first job, but my first job after getting my CCNA; I was a consultant for about 6 years and worked for an engraving company at the same time). I just submitted my resume to a few recruiters and they landed me the job.

erpadmin wrote: »

I don't discredit you or your accomplishments...especially if this is in FL, where the job market isn't quite as nice as it is up here (in terms of salary but as you said, it DEPENDS on your role...) but as I said, you are the exception rather than the rule....especially if your first job was recent.

It was a NOC job, so it may be different than the enterprise world, but I did consulting for a long time prior to getting it. Most people at my company in the Tier I role had little experience and rarely had certs. Some don't even have degrees (and from my dealings with Sprint, Brighthouse, Qwest, Level 3, XO, etc, Tier I seems to be the same there). I still work there and have done so for the last 2 years, but now I'm Tier II. Like you said, it depends on the circumstances, but if people need a job, a NOC is the way to go. It has a high turnover rate compared to Enterprise work, so there's always openings. Colorado is big with NOCs, Texas, Florida, and Illinois are too, so I'd look there for NOC jobs.

Edit:

I just realized that you're a Sys Admin and we're basically talking apples and oranges: The server side of the IT world is saturated with people and there's not enough jobs to go around. The routing/switching/WAN world is actually scratching their heads trying to figure out where to get people to fill jobs. I just read somewhere that there is actually a CCNP shortage and CCNPs are in high demand right now. If we're talking about server-side stuff, you are 100% correct. You're lucky to break $30k when you're just starting out in this market these days.

earweed

Personally I'm planning to get the CCNA after I get the MCITP:EA just to increase my marketability and also to invrease my network knowledge. Preferably I'd like an Admin job and then either specialize or move into management but either way knowledge of Cisco will help as will knowledge of Linux systems.
Where I am the majority of jobs available are the specialized jobs like .Net developers, Exchange, SQL, SAP, (even saw one for ERP), Programmers of all types, and developers of all types. Very few Sys admin jobs being posted as those seem to be developed in house through internal promotions.
Very little NOC activity up here.

wolverene13

earweed wrote: »

Personally I'm planning to get the CCNA after I get the MCITP:EA just to increase my marketability and also to invrease my network knowledge. Preferably I'd like an Admin job and then either specialize or move into management but either way knowledge of Cisco will help as will knowledge of Linux systems.
Where I am the majority of jobs available are the specialized jobs like .Net developers, Exchange, SQL, SAP, (even saw one for ERP), Programmers of all types, and developers of all types. Very few Sys admin jobs being posted as those seem to be developed in house through internal promotions.
Very little NOC activity up here.

Good idea regarding the NA and some Linux knowledge. Hiring managers like "Jack of All Trades" types nowadays. As far as the job market goes, you may have to move to another state. Louisiana and Tennessee have some NOCs, but if you're looking for Enterprise, you may need to go even farther away.

za3bour

I actually took my last job because it's based on Linux environment and I had almost zero experience at it at that time (2 years ago) now I have a fair knowledge of it and planning to work more on this area.

It's always better to know more in different aspects of IT whether it's networking or other operating system and yes managers love this because it will save them a fair amount of money.

I got my CCNA back in 2006 and never really worked as a Network person but it helped a lot since then.

erpadmin

wolverene13 wrote: »

Well, here in FL it depends on what you're looking for. There are NOC jobs out the wazoo here. Not sure what the Enterprise job market is like, but it's probably not as good.



7 years: 4 in general PC work, 5 in networking (yes, I know, that's 9, but for two years I did both.



Tier I NOC tech - Not traditional Tier I, though (aka, ticket monkey). We actually had enable/root access on the network and could make changes. We didn't just make tickets and pass them to someone else.



Yes, B.A. in Communications.



I got it 2 years ago, literally 6 days before the stock market "crashed" (not my first job, but my first job after getting my CCNA; I was a consultant for about 6 years and worked for an engraving company at the same time). I just submitted my resume to a few recruiters and they landed me the job.



It was a NOC job, so it may be different than the enterprise world, but I did consulting for a long time prior to getting it. Most people at my company in the Tier I role had little experience and rarely had certs. Some don't even have degrees (and from my dealings with Sprint, Brighthouse, Qwest, Level 3, XO, etc, Tier I seems to be the same there). I still work there and have done so for the last 2 years, but now I'm Tier II. Like you said, it depends on the circumstances, but if people need a job, a NOC is the way to go. It has a high turnover rate compared to Enterprise work, so there's always openings. Colorado is big with NOCs, Texas, Florida, and Illinois are too, so I'd look there for NOC jobs.

Edit:

I just realized that you're a Sys Admin and we're basically talking apples and oranges: The server side of the IT world is saturated with people and there's not enough jobs to go around. The routing/switching/WAN world is actually scratching their heads trying to figure out where to get people to fill jobs. I just read somewhere that there is actually a CCNP shortage and CCNPs are in high demand right now. If we're talking about server-side stuff, you are 100% correct. You're lucky to break $30k when you're just starting out in this market these days.

You already had a college degree (your major is irrelevant...the DEGREE IS NOT though) and plus IT experience (for argument's sake, let's go with the whole 9 years) before you got a job making $51k as a CCNA. That doesn't counter my point of saying that a CCNA fresh out of a school promising your salary, WITH NO IT EXPERIENCE, is going to make that same salary (and that's anywhere). You had the experience to back up the CCNA and that's different from the original point of going to a school, getting CCNA, MCSE, with no real world IT experience, and then making $50k-$75.

I would imagine there is a big demand for network work in FL...and looks like they're willing to pay. There is also demand for DBAs and PeopleSoft admins (even PS Security [for your Sec+ guys, it's Role-Based]). I even got offered to be interviewed for a spot in Palm Beach. But I have no desire to make a lateral move...even though it would have been for the same pay and it's in FL.

In any event though, we were having an apples to oranges conversation (aside from your background, because I didn't know it, that's why I asked), but you know what, sometimes that's ok.

erpadmin

wolverene13 wrote: »

Good idea regarding the NA and some Linux knowledge. Hiring managers like "Jack of All Trades" types nowadays. As far as the job market goes, you may have to move to another state. Louisiana and Tennessee have some NOCs, but if you're looking for Enterprise, you may need to go even farther away.

Unfortunately, (due to the statement above) I have to agree with this. You really need to be by a major metro (or at least a metro that has a lot of IT infrastructure) for a great number of IT jobs (AND decent-excellent pay).

You don't need to live IN the metro....but definitely near one.

wolverene13

erpadmin wrote: »

You already had a college degree (your major is irrelevant...the DEGREE IS NOT though) and plus IT experience (for argument's sake, let's go with the whole 9 years) before you got a job making $51k as a CCNA. That doesn't counter my point of saying that a CCNA fresh out of a school promising your salary, WITH NO IT EXPERIENCE, is going to make that same salary (and that's anywhere). You had the experience to back up the CCNA and that's different from the original point of going to a school, getting CCNA, MCSE, with no real world IT experience, and then making $50k-$75.

I would imagine there is a big demand for network work in FL...and looks like they're willing to pay. There is also demand for DBAs and PeopleSoft admins (even PS Security [for your Sec+ guys, it's Role-Based]). I even got offered to be interviewed for a spot in Palm Beach. But I have no desire to make a lateral move...even though it would have been for the same pay and it's in FL.

In any event though, we were having an apples to oranges conversation (aside from your background, because I didn't know it, that's why I asked), but you know what, sometimes that's ok.

I just realized we were talking about someone no experience at all, after reading your last post. Oops! Where's the "brain fart" smiley?

However, we do have a whole team of Systems guys, but they all complain about being stuck there forever because there's not many admin jobs out there. It might just be my immediate area.

You didn't take a job in Palm Beach? I'd love to live there. I'm stuck in the middle of the state, though. It's hot as hell here near Orlando.

erpadmin

wolverene13 wrote: »

You didn't take a job in Palm Beach? I'd love to live there. I'm stuck in the middle of the state, though. It's hot as hell here near Orlando.

I have rental property that has to be dealt with before I go anywhere outside of Jersey. I don't want to deal with property managers or anything like that. The housing market kind of messed me up and it's going to be a good couple of years (and that's being optimistic) before I can offload it and at worst get back to even.

Also the Palm Beach gig would have been for PS Security Admin....and no DB work. DBAs will always trump Security (especially when a DBA knows the PS security tables... ). It would have been for the same amount of money but I do not want to take anymore responsibility cuts for the sake of money......believe me, you can probably relate to that.

I'm a pretty patient individual. I don't have to rush the next move quite yet.