Cisco Core Switches

DPG

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd much rather recent supported Dell switches (not sure if thats what the OP has) than some outdated unsupported Cisco gear. If you are relieng on this for your network core you are going to want vendor support contracts for replacement and technical assistance. Do you really want to get woken up at 3A.M. for a hardware/software failure and not have vendor support? I know I wouldn't for damn sure.

\

We all know that smartnet and vendor contracts prevent hardware failures.

I would rather have replacement equipment on-site which just isn't feasible when you blow your budget on new hardware.

DPG

networker050184 wrote: »

+1 to this. Why buy gear already end of life? This isn't a lab we are talking about here. And who the hell wants CatOS anyway?

SUP2A runs native IOS.

tiersten

DPG wrote: »

We all know that smartnet and vendor contracts prevent hardware failures.

I would rather have replacement equipment on-site which just isn't feasible when you blow your budget on new hardware.

A fault isn't always due to hardware failure. I've had to get help from Cisco TAC on software issues before and they've occasionally made special builds for me. You're not going to be able to do that if you don't have SMARTnet.

You won't be licensed for IOS also if you buy your secondhand hardware as I doubt you'll be relicensing it if you're this concerned about saving that last dollar. No IOS license = No SMARTnet = No software updates. Not that you'd get any updates for your old Sup 2 :P

I guess your requirements for your network and hardware are different than mine. I'm willing to buy brand new equipment as I need the support that comes with SMARTnet. Any downtime will cost more than what I'd save by using secondhand equipment. My budget is allocated assuming that I'll be buying new equipment as well.

tiersten

DPG wrote: »

SUP2A runs native IOS.

The plain 2 only does CatOS. You need a MSFC for IOS and L3 which doesn't come standard. Did your price list include Sups with the optional MSFC card on both? I've no idea BTW. I'm just curious.

mgeorge

If 3k is your budget then you should keep in mind that building the core with the ability to upgrade in the future is a good idea.

You can build a 6509 with 2x sup2-msfc2 running native ios 12.2(1SFX for around 1500ish or less (if you piece it all together).

Later you can upgrade to sup720's if needed.

This gear may be end of life however it is still very capable of doing you're requirements. Line cards are cheap. Why need a smart net contract when you can replace the dead line card or sup for a few hundred bucks?

4500's would also be a good bet but for 3k you will not get a pair of redundant 4500's (a 4507R or 4510R) with 4x sup3 or later.

3 Grand for a two core switches that are relatively new is not going to go very far at all. Maybe two used 3560/3750 (non gigabit) which i wouldn't consider a core switch.

Just quick build;
6509 Chassis w/ fan tray - $200ish (you may be able to find one with psu's)
2x 1300Watt psu's $40ish
2x Sup2-msfc - $250ish each
2x 64MB PCMCIA flash cards $100ish
4x 512MB DIMM's (2 for each sup) $150ish

So you'd have a 6500 for around 1k with no line cards. Price examples given below as of to date;
WS-X6548-RJ-45 - 48port 10/100 Line card - $250ish
WS-X6548-GE-TX - 48 Port 10/100/1000 Line card - $800ish)
WS-X6516-GBIC - 16 Port Gigabit Ethernet Blade - $200ish

tiersten

mgeorge wrote: »

This gear may be end of life however it is still very capable of doing you're requirements. Line cards are cheap. Why need a smart net contract when you can replace the dead line card or sup for a few hundred bucks?

In my case, I need somebody that I can call and shout at them until something gets fixed along with the updates. The SX* builds are notoriously buggy unless you find the exact version that works for whatever subset of features you're using and never ever upgrade from one SX* train to another SX* train unless you're willing to spend a while debugging it all... Cost of downtime > Cost of contract + new hardware. I've still got spares so I can do swapouts myself but I still require that support behind it all.

mgeorge wrote: »

Just quick build;
6509 Chassis w/ fan tray - $200ish (you may be able to find one with psu's)
2x 1300Watt psu's $40ish
2x Sup2-msfc - $250ish each
2x 64MB PCMCIA flash cards $100ish
4x 512MB DIMM's (2 for each sup) $150ish

So you'd have a 6500 for around 1k with no line cards. Price examples given below as of to date;
WS-X6548-RJ-45 - 48port 10/100 Line card - $250ish
WS-X6548-GE-TX - 48 Port 10/100/1000 Line card - $800ish)
WS-X6516-GBIC - 16 Port Gigabit Ethernet Blade - $200ish

Thanks for the numbers and listing the items. It is much easier to see what is going on with actual model numbers.

Pricing for a built it yourself kit 6509 seems to be significantly cheaper in the US along with a corresponding larger choice in vendors. Yet another case of the UK being more expensive

mgeorge

tiersten wrote: »

In my case, I need somebody that I can call and shout at them until something gets fixed along with the updates. The SX* builds are notoriously buggy unless you find the exact version that works for whatever subset of features you're using and never ever upgrade from one SX* train to another SX* train unless you're willing to spend a while debugging it all... Cost of downtime > Cost of contract + new hardware. I've still got spares so I can do swapouts myself but I still require that support behind it all.

It takes 3 grand alone just to yell at someone at cisco.

tiersten

mgeorge wrote: »

It takes 3 grand alone just to yell at someone at cisco.

If our network goes down then we're losing money and its way over 3 grand a hour. If the timing is bad then it could be hundreds of thousands or millions. The joys of banking :P

mgeorge

tiersten wrote: »

If our network goes down then we're losing money and its way over 3 grand a hour. If the timing is bad then it could be hundreds of thousands or millions. The joys of banking :P

Yep.. Banks and Hospitals are special. If a bank goes down people lose money. If a hospital goes down people die. Go figure?

tiersten

mgeorge wrote: »

Yep.. Banks and Hospitals are special. If a bank goes down people lose money. If a hospital goes down people die. Go figure?

All the hospitals I've been to in the UK have still used paper notes for patients. Its only the last few years that the doctor surgeries have moved to electronic notes but the hospitals are still stuck with the big wad of paper. Combination of they don't want to change and the fact that the companies that implement these systems for all the hospitals are making an absolute farce of it. Costs way more than they claimed it would and it still doesn't quite work right even years after it was implemented.

NightShade03

Everyone here might also want to consider that the original poster only has a CCNA and sounds like he/she is building a network design for the first time. Given those details do you really think that someone in that position can choose all required parts for 6500 series core, assemble them, configure them, setup L3 routing, CEF, etc.

The 4300 and 6500 series might provide some flexibility/scalability but a fixed switch setup lie with 3750s might be easy to manage.

Just a thought...

tiersten

NightShade03 wrote: »

Everyone here might also want to consider that the original poster only has a CCNA and sounds like he/she is building a network design for the first time. Given those details do you really think that someone in that position can choose all required parts for 6500 series core, assemble them, configure them, setup L3 routing, CEF, etc.

The 4300 and 6500 series might provide some flexibility/scalability but a fixed switch setup lie with 3750s might be easy to manage.

Just a thought...

Gotta start somewhere and where better than to get in at the start. If the switch over timescale isn't rushed then he should have a decent amount of labbing time

NightShade03

tiersten wrote: »

Gotta start somewhere and where better than to get in at the start. If the switch over timescale isn't rushed then he should have a decent amount of labbing time

Fair point.

ciscom

Hi,

Just skimmed the thread, but I would suggest 2 C3750G-24TS. You can Stack them and have great redundancy and performance. Considering that you mentioned a "small" net. They are right now around 3K (each). I work for a bank and one of the campus has almost 700 users, and they performe awesome. This configuration also has more bandwidth throughtput than our 4507R wiith Supervisor V (32Gbit vs 24Gbit). There's no need to configure First Hop Redundancy protocols nor Supervisor redundancy, etc.

But anyways as I stated I just looked the thread on the fly, and that what I can recommend, but as some of the guys commented everything depends on your network requirements. I would add, go to Cisco.com and do a little comparison from their Catalyst Switches solutions, based on your needs if your company can't afford the new hardware, go for sites like candelanetworks.com, horizondatacom.com and shopricom.com as they sell new, used and refurbished gear.

mgeorge

ciscom wrote: »

Hi,

Just skimmed the thread, but I would suggest 2 C3750G-24TS. You can Stack them and have great redundancy and performance. Considering that you mentioned a "small" net. They are right now around 3K (each). I work for a bank and one of the campus has almost 700 users, and they performe awesome. This configuration also has more bandwidth throughtput than our 4507R wiith Supervisor V (32Gbit vs 24Gbit). There's no need to configure First Hop Redundancy protocols nor Supervisor redundancy, etc.

But anyways as I stated I just looked the thread on the fly, and that what I can recommend, but as some of the guys commented everything depends on your network requirements. I would add, go to Cisco.com and do a little comparison from their Catalyst Switches solutions, based on your needs if your company can't afford the new hardware, go for sites like candelanetworks.com, horizondatacom.com and shopricom.com as they sell new, used and refurbished gear.

His budge is 3k, not 6k. Typically core switches have fiber links, not gigE copper. Copper is limited to 100m (if you manage to get copper to negotiate 1Gbps at 100m)

creamy_stew

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd much rather recent supported Dell switches .

I wouldn't.

creamy_stew

Basically just tagging this for future enjoyment.

Assuming the prices on pre "E" and pre "720", wouldn't the 6500 chassis be an excellent L2 aggregation switch? I mean, I get that L2+/3 functionality/performace is limited at best, but for the price range you guys are talking about, it seems like an awesome deal in the basement wiring closet.

Forsaken_GA

I know a few companies that use 6500's as pure layer 2 end of row switches, and it works well. With dual sups and redundant power supplies, it's not as imperative to deploy a second unit for redundancy

tiersten

creamy_stew wrote: »

Assuming the prices on pre "E" and pre "720", wouldn't the 6500 chassis be an excellent L2 aggregation switch? I mean, I get that L2+/3 functionality/performace is limited at best, but for the price range you guys are talking about, it seems like an awesome deal in the basement wiring closet.

thenjduke wants L3 capability though.

creamy_stew

tiersten wrote: »

thenyduke wants L3 capability though.

Ah, yes

It seems like you could build a great network using old 6500:s as agg/access-switches and adding a couple of e.g. fortigate 200b where all vlans terminate. Those fuckers push a couple of Gb easily.

Not exactly Cisco recommended design (local vlan etc), but hey!

ciscom

mgeorge wrote: »

His budge is 3k, not 6k. Typically core switches have fiber links, not gigE copper. Copper is limited to 100m (if you manage to get copper to negotiate 1Gbps at 100m)

I thought he meant per switch. Anyways the 3750G-24TS has 4 Fiber ports, with the respective SFP of course.