Loyalty??? Does it still exists?

My employer sponsor my Secret Clearance and help me get my foot in the door to my first real I.T job. All is good but they're underpaying me atleast 10k. Where do you draw the line between loyalty and self-interest. I've been with the company for 14 months now. I have enough experience now that I can go to another company and get pay more. What should I do? Also is a little tougher decision because the company is small and I got to know most of the people there. I recently got a 8% raise and now making 50k. Is just sucks b/c I know I can get more now instead of waiting for another year to get another raise.

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Forsaken_GA

I don't view myself as an employee. When it comes down to it, we're all self-employed, whether we like it or not.

So I view my employer as a client. If the relationship turns into a bad business arrangement, then I have no problem terminating it. Rest assured that if it made good business sense, your company would not hesitate to terminate you.

colemic

That is an excellent way of putting it.

blargoe

The days of getting in the door with a company and staying there until you retire are long, long, long gone. Particularly in IT, the "first real IT job" job is doomed as a long-term prospect. You get what you're worth in the market, which is not much due to lack of experience, and you are behind the curve from that point forward.

If you think you have the skills to move on, do it; if not, hit them up for some more perks.

L0gicB0mb508

A lot of good advice in this thread. I'm guessing however you are a government contractor, so to be fair there will be no loyalty in your trade. If something were to happen to the contract you were on, you would be out on the street. Your company wouldn't think twice about it. Now sometimes, a company will try to hold on to you if you are an extremely good asset, but most of the time you will be hitting the road. Contracting is a bit more of a cut throat game than your normal IT job. I guess I view it as almost like a mercenary. You work for whoever compensates you the most. However, if you find a good contractor you should stick with them as much as possible if they are willing to take care of you. I see this mostly in smaller contracting firms. They seem to actually care about their employees.

L0gicB0mb508

Paul Boz wrote: »

Greed and ambition are a blurry line but I have to agree with you. Most people in this economy aren't getting raises at all. In fact, many people are taking deep pay cuts. I have a hard time feeling bad for someone getting a security clearance and an 8% raise. It sounds to me like the employer is being more than generous.

Most people in the private sector are hurting for cash, but the public sector is still extremely strong. Pay has not really dropped for contractors or GS employees. 8% is a fairly decent raise though. If you have the skills and the clearance you will be living fine.

Sabalo

Contracting is a bit more of a cut throat game than your normal IT job. I guess I view it as almost like a mercenary.

Which is why I call myself a mercenary!

IT, Iraq, highest bidder...

Bl8ckr0uter

blargoe wrote: »

The days of getting in the door with a company and staying there until you retire are long, long, long gone. Particularly in IT, the "first real IT job" job is doomed as a long-term prospect.

My Dad is a Fuels Research Chemist for the Air Force. He has been with the Air Force for like 20+ years. We were having a conversation about why I have had some many jobs (a friendly one). I told him that the days of being somewhere for 20 years are gone and how I didn't think I could work someone where for more than 5-6 years. That like blew his mind lol. But you know I don't think it is IT. I read somewhere that my generation (20 somethings) don't stay at jobs for very long (2-4 years). Maybe it is the fear of losing your edge. Maybe it is the lack of caring of employers. Maybe it is simply people getting bored because of the music video and microwave (short attention span and wanting thing instantly) mentality that this generation seems to have. Probably all of the above and much more.

L0gicB0mb508

Sabalo wrote: »

Which is why I call myself a mercenary! IT, Iraq, highest bidder...

lol I actually felt the same way when I worked in Afghanistan.

colemic

L0gicB0mb508 wrote: »

Most people in the private sector are hurting for cash, but the public sector is still extremely strong. Pay has not really dropped for contractors or GS employees. 8% is a fairly decent raise though. If you have the skills and the clearance you will be living fine.

I would tend to agree, with one exception (in my experience): CSC. They worked very hard to retain/relocate as many people as they could when they lost the task order I was working on in Germany. I had solid offers from 2 different places (both were downrange and I ultimately delcined to come out to where I am now). They also have their own alumni network (InTouch) and even as an ex-CSC employee, I can still get wicked discounts for buying stuff online. They place a high value on retaining assets. They are probably the exception though.

L0gicB0mb508

colemic wrote: »

I would tend to agree, with one exception (in my experience): CSC. They worked very hard to retain/relocate as many people as they could when they lost the task order I was working on in Germany. I had solid offers from 2 different places (both were downrange and I ultimately delcined to come out to where I am now). They also have their own alumni network (InTouch) and even as an ex-CSC employee, I can still get wicked discounts for buying stuff online. They place a high value on retaining assets. They are probably the exception though.

Yeah that's pretty awesome. I know most firms will "try" to hold on to their people, but usually just end up letting them go. CSC doesn't do a lot of heavy hitting in my area, but I do have some friends that worked for them and had a good experience. So maybe you found a good exception to the rule.

WillTech105

All true on this page from what I've read.

The days of staying at a big company and you get a nice pension/401K are gone. Like someone here mentioned, we're all self-employed and almost like mercs. If the job sucks or if theres a higher bidder we're out.

I dunno if its in the IT field moreso than other industries but I've heard little bit of everything and it seems to me (and my personal experience) 0% loyality.

Its the 21st century and its a new game.

powerfool

Guys, it is concerning to me that others are chastising a fellow board member for wanting to better his situation. Yes, it is true that there are people that cannot even find work, but that does not mean his concerns and ambitions should go out the window... even the most liberal of philosophies (coming from true academic philosophy) reinforce this.

The only way out of an economic climate like this is for people to keep trying to advance their position... if they don't we will just stagnate as an aggregate market (aka "society").

Further, how does it help you if someone else makes less money or does not receive a pay raise? The short answer is that it does not benefit you. The long answer is that it actually is a negative for you and everyone else.

Let me rephrase it... if you are working for a private company (meaning non-government), is it in your best interest if:

A) Your employer gets richer

Your employer loses wealth
C) Your employer stagnates

The answer is A. If your employer loses wealth, he will cut back. If your employer stagnates, if we will look at what is necessary to get ahead, which may mean cutting labor expenses and getting the same productivity out of a smaller labor pool.

To be quite honest (whether offends people or not), the most greedy of all are those that want someone else to not succeed because they do not feel it is "fair." If these people spent more time improving their lot in life, everyone would be better for it. There is no luck, there is only opportunity and whether you are prepared for it when it knocks, or not... and sometimes you have to seek it out and not wait for it to find you.