WGU vs. B&M uni for B.S. degree?

vivithemage

I am really up in the air about WGU or a B.S. at the U of Minnesota - Twin Cities.


PRO
WGU is MUCH cheaper
WGU actually has courses that i'd benfit from
WGU has loads of CERTS, big plus
WGU is all online
WGU could be done in less then 2 years

CON
credibility? HR toss my resume at first glance


Will HR people toss my resume, because I got my degree at a online institution? I know when I was helping hire an IT Manager at my old job, we tossed everyone with online degrees right away, didn't even look at hte rest of the information...so I am very hesitant!

quick background

1)5 years of network administration
2) 2 years associate completed at local community college
3) Accepted to U of M, but not sure if I can do it while working full time (loads of classes during the day, while I work).
4) endgame would be to work for the FBI/CIA/NSA/GOV. doing security/network administration

I am just not sure ...

veritas_libertas

vivithemage wrote: »

I am really up in the air about WGU or a B.S. at the U of Minnesota - Twin Cities.


PRO
WGU is MUCH cheaper
WGU actually has courses that i'd benfit from
WGU has loads of CERTS, big plus
WGU is all online
WGU could be done in less then 2 years

CON
credibility? HR toss my resume at first glance


Will HR people toss my resume, because I got my degree at a online institution? I know when I was helping hire an IT Manager at my old job, we tossed everyone with online degrees right away, didn't even look at hte rest of the information...so I am very hesitant!

quick background

1)5 years of network administration
2) 2 years associate completed at local community college
3) Accepted to U of M, but not sure if I can do it while working full time (loads of classes during the day, while I work).
4) endgame would be to work for the FBI/CIA/NSA/GOV. doing security/network administration

I am just not sure ...

If you have been accepted at a state college than do the best you can to finish there even if you have to take more night and online classes. A state college/uni will always be more respected.

I have know idea if the government respects state colleges/unis more than online or not. I would think you are better off with state institution though. If you look through the threads on TE you will find state colleges that have fully online Bachelor degrees.

vivithemage

How about those inter-college programs, where you build your own degree? How do employers think of those at B&M schools?

veritas_libertas

vivithemage wrote: »

How about those inter-college programs, where you build your own degree? How do employers think of those at B&M schools?

I'm not that familiar with those.

colemic

veritas_libertas wrote: »

If you have been accepted at a state college than do the best you can to finish there even if you have to take more night and online classes. A state college/uni will always be more respected.

I have know idea if the government respects state colleges/unis more than online or not. I would think you are better off with state institution though. If you look through the threads on TE you will find state colleges that have fully online Bachelor degrees.

I really don't think the Fed really cares - from my understanding of the hiring process, it's basically a check box that you have a degree.

vivithemage

Interesting ... just a check box.

I am referring to this :

https://webapps-prd.oit.umn.edu/programCatalog/viewCatalogProgram.do?programID=1052&strm=1109&campus=UMNTC

uhtrinity

When I had gone through all the FBI interviews in 2008 one of the hiring managers asked about WGU, did a search, determined that it was accredited and from there it wasn't an issue. They actually put more weight on the certs and experience.

In the end I think it boils down to a combination of multiple factors - degrees, certs, and experience.

erpadmin

Vivi, I am in the same boat as you are, more or less. Before WGU, I gave UMASS-Lowell a shot. $900 for a 3 credit course in C Programming. Between the amount of money and time for a BS, I decided this probably wasn't the best approach. Money I had, and to some degree, I had the time, but in the end, I would have been going to school for 5 years (more or less) and would have been too burnt for a Masters in whatever (be it an MBA or an MS in Management).

Enter WGU...where the degree may not be well known, but it's regionally accredited. There are a bunch of B&M state schools that are lesser-known than WGU that will get the pass because it's regionally accredited. WGU would fall in that same category. A lot of HR departments use a list of colleges that are considered diploma mills. WGU is NOT amongst them. (In fact, I believe it is Oregon that treats it as a crime if you were to apply for a position in that state with a school on that diploma mill list).

The thing is, the experience you offer will sell, and the BS degree will get you through any HR firewall. If the conversation ever comes up why WGU, the appropriate answer would be something like "It was affordable and within my budget, the scheduling for completing course work was appealing, it's regionally accredited, and (me personally) I plan on attending a B&M school for my Masters." As someone said in another discussion...it's all about the last school you went to, even though I would list WGU in my resume for the fact I (would have) earned my Bachelors degree.

Seriously though, unless we're comparing WGU to Harvard or any of the Ivy League schools (arguably even Division 1 schools), it really isn't mattering much.

vivithemage

Interesting, I thought WGU did not transfer to any B&M school at all, so trying to get a masters at a B&M would be hard/impossible unless you took the courses over?

What region is it accredited?

uhtrinity

vivithemage wrote: »

Interesting ... just a check box.

I am referring to this :

https://webapps-prd.oit.umn.edu/programCatalog/viewCatalogProgram.do?programID=1052&strm=1109&campus=UMNTC

Hard to say. When I first started the BAT (Bachelor of Applied Tech) at Idaho State in 1996 I had to sit down with a mentor and we built up a custom program which consisted of core content from Math, CS, and Physics. It all looked good on paper, but after the first year there were massive issues with scheduling of those core classes. I ran into situations where I had to choose between a CS course of Physics class because they were offered once a year in the same time slot. After two and a half years I gave up on it as I had three more years to go, and that was assuming the classes were passed. Since the mentor allowed those cores it made for a hard program.

As far as your program, I would be wary of any degree that requires you to explain what the degree is or what it qualifies you for. This is what would have occured with the BAT degree.
Is it a BS in Multidisciplinary Studies or does it get its name from the content like a BS in Computer Science, or IT? If it is the former I would be wary as it might not get through HR filters.

chmorin

vivithemage wrote: »

Interesting, I thought WGU did not transfer to any B&M school at all, so trying to get a masters at a B&M would be hard/impossible unless you took the courses over?

What region is it accredited?

The degree will be accepted by most masters programs as long as you have the whole degree. The odds of transferring individual classes from WGU is slim to naught.

Accreditation? See for yourself: WGU Accreditation | Accredited Online University | Western Governors University Online

NCATE Accredited
CCNE Accredited
USDLA Recognized Institution

WGU is also regionally accredited by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities, one of the major accrediting commissions recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA).

erpadmin

chmorin wrote: »

The degree will be accepted by most masters programs as long as you have the whole degree. The odds of transferring individual classes from WGU is slim to naught.

Accreditation? See for yourself: WGU Accreditation | Accredited Online University | Western Governors University Online

NCATE Accredited
CCNE Accredited
USDLA Recognized Institution

What he said.....including the most important accreditation, the regional one by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities.

Transferring WGU classes is always more miss than hit. However, once you get the degree, it counts because it's regionally accredited and you can either start a second Bachelors (which should be all major classes, depending on the major), a Masters, or even a PhD program. (This is all at a B&M too...not Capella, UoP, or anything like that.)

That's why WGU works.

mikej412

vivithemage wrote: »

4) endgame would be to work for the FBI/CIA/NSA/GOV. doing security/network administration

Military experience in a technical field and an active Security Clearance would probably have a greater impact on #4 than a choice between U of M or WGU.

I think WGU is a GREAT fit for the adult back to school crowd -- and the proven self-motivated self-studying TE members here -- but a Brick and Mortar University should always be the first option for recent High School grads or Military Service Veterans with the GI Bill (who don't need to work full time).

But if you do need to work full time (or are Active Duty Military working on a degree) then WGU is a very viable option. And once more HR wonks (and Hiring Managers) take the time to figure out that WGU is not a "buy a degree" program like a lot of the for-profit training schools, then it should become even more accepted.

vivithemage

Sounds a LOT easier then my Bachelors at the U of M....interesting. Thanks for the info

petedude

erpadmin wrote: »

What he said.....including the most important accreditation, the regional one by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities.

Transferring WGU classes is always more miss than hit. However, once you get the degree, it counts because it's regionally accredited and you can either start a second Bachelors (which should be all major classes, depending on the major), a Masters, or even a PhD program. (This is all at a B&M too...not Capella, UoP, or anything like that.)

That's why WGU works.

Yeah. I always get to nearly wriggling in my chair when people say "transferring" their WGU BS to another Master's. You're not transferring anything-- it's an application to an entirely different program, which in the vast majority of cases a WGU diploma will qualify you for.

Course-by-course transfers to another program are an entirely different matter, which I think WGU complicates by assigning goofy numbers to competency units.

vivithemage

I assume I can't just go GET a security clearance, I need a job first, or be military.

I do need to work full time, but am only 2.5 years out of college-associates....but WGU is seeming like a good way of getting my B.S.

erpadmin

petedude wrote: »

Yeah. I always get to nearly wriggling in my chair when people say "transferring" their WGU BS to another Master's. You're not transferring anything-- it's an application to an entirely different program, which in the vast majority of cases a WGU diploma will qualify you for.

Course-by-course transfers to another program are an entirely different matter, which I think WGU complicates by assigning goofy numbers to competency units.

Right, and I didn't mean to add to that confusion. When one "transfers", one "transfers" from one program to another (e.g. Bachelors to Bachelors). I have always stated that I am finishing WGU so that I can apply to a Masters program, and there are no transfer evaluation, but there is a degree evaluation. They'll see that the WGU degree is accredited and hence it counts. There might be a GRE/GMAT requirement, but that's another story entirely.

From what I read, transferring to another school from WGU to another BS program sounds worse than a root canal. That's pain I wouldn't wish on anyone...best to just stick it out at WGU and call it a day.

erpadmin

vivithemage wrote: »

I assume I can't just go GET a security clearance, I need a job first, or be military.

I do need to work full time, but am only 2.5 years out of college-associates....but WGU is seeming like a good way of getting my B.S.

Easiest way to get clearance is to join the military and get an MOS (read: military job) that requires a clearance. This assumes that your background prior to the military was not that checkered.

I'm too old to be all I can be...otherwise, it wouldn't be a bad deal.

Do some more homework on WGU, but my advice is it would probably be a good fit for you. But having said that, know your own situation first and keep doing homework to be sure. I did my own research for a good couple of months before I finally pulled the trigger. I'm happier for the experience.

sthompson86

vivithemage wrote: »

CON
credibility? HR toss my resume at first glance


..

That was and still kinda is my biggest complaint. I would love to go to a B&M school, but I am 24(married) and I have been attending a local CC for the last 2 years. I cannot spend another 2+ years working part time being a school boy.

With all that said WGU is my best option at this point, and whether HR chunks my resume or not its better to have some sort of Bachelor than to not.

brianeaglesfan

Without having read every previous post you could always enroll at a B&M school that offers on-line programs. What is your preferred major? There are a lot of schools that offer in-state tuition rates for on-line students.

ajs1976

If you are worried about the reputation of WGU vs. B&M, find a B&M that has an online program and/or offers programs for non-traditional students (ie Working adults)

sthompson86

ajs1976 wrote: »

If you are worried about the reputation of WGU vs. B&M, find a B&M that has an online program and/or offers programs for non-traditional students (ie Working adults)

I have searched online for B&M schools that offer IT degrees, but its just hard to sort through the search because of so many online schools.

I read on TE once about the University of Southern GA and there online IT program, but I added it up, and it was going to cost around 35K to go that route. I do not want a B&M 35K bad enough. lol

brianeaglesfan

Are you dead set on IT or have you considered CS / MIS? What is your associate's in?

sthompson86

brianeaglesfan wrote: »

Are you dead set on IT or have you considered CS / MIS? What is your associate's in?

No not at all, I considered a CIS degree here at a local B&M college, but I just cant go 3 more years being a full time student.

But yea, I am open to anything IT related, and I would like to hear some options.

petedude

sthompson86 wrote: »

With all that said WGU is my best option at this point, and whether HR chunks my resume or not its better to have some sort of Bachelor than to not.

Good way to look at it.

Truth be told, yes, there's still some stigma out there regarding online degrees. The thing to bear in mind is that a good portion of this is FUD spread by B&M schools/alumni. As another poster put it here on TE, an online degree may open some doors and close others. I hear a lot of companies don't care as long as there's some sort of accreditation behind the diploma. I've also heard of federal employees getting nice promotions based on DETC degrees earned online. Other students will take a WGU degree and move on to a regionally accredited B&M master's.

I'm starting to wander a bit, so I should just say. . . take the ball and run with it.

-Foxer-

I finished my Bachelors degree from WGU in June, and so far no one has ever questioned it's validity. One time someone asked me about it in an interview, but it didn't seem to be a problem, they were just curious about it.

Also, it essentially is a state school, because it was started by the governors of several western states.

brianeaglesfan

petedude wrote: »

Good way to look at it.
Other students will take a WGU degree and move on to a regionally accredited B&M master's.

This is actually an excellent plan, pay the low tution and get certed up, then proceed to the best B&M program you can get into.

erpadmin

brianeaglesfan wrote: »

This is actually an excellent plan, pay the low tution and get certed up, then proceed to the best B&M program you can get into.

That was pretty much the plan I've (and others) been advocating all along.

If folks are that worried about WGU might not cut the mustard (and I have yet to see evidence that it won't) then a Masters from a B&M should satisfy any *potential* concerns.

At the end of the day, if you planned on doing a 5-6 year program at an Online B&M for a Bachelors (on a part-time basis) because "hey, it's a real degree", your time (and money) is best spent doing the same 5-6 years (might even be less) doing a WGU degree then applying towards a B&M Masters program right after.

Dave88LX

I was (am) in the same boat, about an "online" University vs. a B&M degree, or, at least an online degree from a traditional B&M school. I'm still up in the air, but, trying to make a decision.

FWIW, I asked this question to my division manager and company owner. Since they will be paying for the degree, and, they do the hiring, I wanted to see what they looked for. Here is their response. This is a small ~60-70 employee gov't contracting company with very decently paid employees, (FWIW).

I am 30, married, 2 kids, full-time job, and travel a lot. 10 years military, 12 years in the IT field. B&M is kind of out of the question. What I take out of it is that I'm better off having an online degree vs. no degree at at all.

Dave,

Steve and I discussed this today and here is what we generally see regarding your request:

- In your current career field, having a BS degree puts you well ahead of anyone who doesn’t have a degree, despite far more years of experience.
- Having a BS degree in any IT related field will serve you well. Having a BS in Network Engineering related subject will serve you even better.
- Coming out of high school and pursuing a BS via an online program does not compare to a traditional “brick-and-mortar” institution.
- Not all “brick-and-mortar” institutions are equal – some definitely carry far more weight than others.
- Pursing a degree after you have entered the work force in a full-time job is seen very favorably. It shows a considerable level of commitment and dedication and is recognized as harder to achieve than right out of high school going full time.
- Folks in the work force do not have the flexibility or options to attend “brick-and-mortar” institutions to pursue a degree like full-time students do. Therefore, online programs typically are recognized as the only option.
- Network Engineering degrees do not exist on par with other Engineering degrees, so your options are far more limited.

Basically the bottom line is that at this point in your career/position on the contract, you will be far better served getting a BS degree from anywhere. Just by having a 4 year degree, it will put you far ahead of many of your contemporaries and put you in a more valuable position going forward as contracts transition.

This said, assess which program you feel will best fit your interests and give you the most valuable information to help expand your usable knowledge.

Let me know if you have any questions about this.

erpadmin

Dave88LX wrote: »

I was (am) in the same boat, about an "online" University vs. a B&M degree, or, at least an online degree from a traditional B&M school. I'm still up in the air, but, trying to make a decision.

FWIW, I asked this question to my division manager and company owner. Since they will be paying for the degree, and, they do the hiring, I wanted to see what they looked for. Here is their response. This is a small ~60-70 employee gov't contracting company with very decently paid employees, (FWIW).

I am 30, married, 2 kids, full-time job, and travel a lot. 10 years military, 12 years in the IT field. B&M is kind of out of the question. What I take out of it is that I'm better off having an online degree vs. no degree at at all.

Dave, first of all welcome to TE.

Second, that e-mail pretty much validates the reasons I'm at WGU. WGU will serve you and your employers well and you should very much consider attending there. Your IT experience, and I would imagine the desire to obtain a degree now that you are past the point of maturity, will get you a BS in a very good amount of time. Plus, you'll have many members here who will put you on the right path.

Well done, sir, and you get rep for that.

Chris:/*

First Gov jobs want a regionally accredited degree in the field you are attempting to get into they do not care if it is online or B&M. If the institute has a name for itself in the press (as in negative) then I would worry about attending any college. WGU has a great reputation and when the HR goons do a search on the school they will see that it is RA and that is all that is required.

There are jobs out there in the private sector that require specific B&M schools (Ivy League) but that is typically for entry level high expectation jobs out of college.