Is IT the one field where I can succed without college?

cooldudemanus

You probably all remember me. Well, fast forward a year later and I have about one year's worth of the college basics done.

Anyway, As I recall, IT is a field where you can get a good job without finishing college. Yes, I know it's dependent on experience,connections ect.


Is it changing? Do you still need a degree to succeed in IT?

EDIT: I am laughing. I just realized I spelled "succeed" in-correctly. Pretty sure you have to be able to spell "succeed" if you want to succeed....

tearofs

No, you don't have to have a degree. But a degree will definitely help your career along the way.

So my suggestion would be stay for 1 more year

keeranbri

yes, I would suggest finishing your degree. Lately I have been getting a lot of calls from IT staffing firms to put me in a entry level or level 1 helpdesk position. I have no experience in the IT field, but I do have about 5 years of call center experience and finished my Bachelors degree. I guess that is helping me

cooldudemanus

keeranbri wrote: »

yes, I would suggest finishing your degree. Lately I have been getting a lot of calls from IT staffing firms to put me in a entry level or level 1 helpdesk position. I have no experience in the IT field, but I do have about 5 years of call center experience and finished my Bachelors degree. I guess that is helping me

How many fields can you advance in without a degree? What a splendid field IT is. I guess any un-regulated field. However, IT is the only one that comes to my head at the moment.


So, why would someone even finish college or go in the first place if they can merely just get a job in an IT firm, work their asses off and obtian certs/exp over the course of 10 years, and make 100k a year?


Seems like a slamming deal to me...

tpatt100

Well you need to get an entry level job first and with more competition due to the economy a degree can only help. To be honest you have to have realistic expectations on what your degree will do for you. I know a family member who went to college at U of Phoenix, took out a ton of loans and expected a job. Maybe when the economy is great but companies are taking advantage of the current situation and maybe getting excellent candidates for cheaper.

cooldudemanus

tpatt100 wrote: »

Well you need to get an entry level job first and with more competition due to the economy a degree can only help. To be honest you have to have realistic expectations on what your degree will do for you. I know a family member who went to college at U of Phoenix, took out a ton of loans and expected a job. Maybe when the economy is great but companies are taking advantage of the current situation and maybe getting excellent candidates for cheaper.

You can get an entry level job with a few certs right?

From browsing these forums, it would appear that you can simply obtain certs to move up in this field. Now, I understand these certs are moderately-highly challenging intellectually. However, here what I am kind of picking up from the IT field.


Get a cert...move up...get another cert and exp move up more


In the medical field:

Get a 2-4 years of education or be stuck making bad money for the rest of your life. Only when you OBTAIN the 4 years of education do you have the opportunity to make decent money. Experience only builds upon itself when you are doing the specific job...which you can't obtain until you get the degree.

jmasterj206

cooldudemanus wrote: »

Get a cert...move up...get another cert and exp move up more

I would disagree with that statment. Certs don't guarantee anything. As far as I'm concerned experience is going to trump all. I've run into the glass ceiling where I can't really get any farther without a BS degree. I currently have an A.A.S. There isn't a magical certification that is going to get you a job. In this day and age of the IT world you are expected to know everything not just be a Cisco guy or a Microsft guy.

Priston

First of all, this isn't the 90s anymore. Going from no experience and no degree to making 100k 10 years later is going to be rare.

What you should do is work IT part time while in school. Like Geek squad or something. If you don't care about getting a B.S. degree, get a A.A.S. degree from a community college. Then years later once you realize you need a B.S. degree to advance those A.A.S. credits will transfer.

If you look around most of the people on this forum with years of experience are enrolled at WGU because they need a B.S. degree to advance.

veritas_libertas

Priston wrote: »

First of all, this isn't the 90s anymore. Going from no experience and no degree to making 100k 10 years later is going to be rare.

What you should do is work IT part time while in school. Like Geek squad or something. If you don't care about getting a B.S. degree, get a A.A.S. degree from a community college. Then years later once you realize you need a B.S. degree to advance those A.A.S. credits will transfer.

If you look around most of the people on this forum with years of experience are enrolled at WGU because they need a B.S. degree to advance.

Yes and no. That is not necessarily true for everyone, or every job. Do I think that is changing, yes.

Bl8ckr0uter

You know what's funny, yesterday I finally understood why experience > certifications.

I was (and sort of still am ) troubleshooting an issue with a particular piece of software. It uses IIS, active sync among other things. Well ok so basically the vendor level 2 techs couldn't figure out why a certain part of the software isn't working. Well he basically said he will get back to me on monday. Well I did a little more digging and I found a few problems with the softwares web.config file as well as rights it didn't set and authentication modes it didn't change. I made the changes and it still didn't work. Well what they neglected to say is that the install doesn't register the needed dll files with iis (about 150 of them). After I did that, Bam it worked.

Why is this important? I did not learn anything about IIS or even how web servers work doing the CCNA, CCNA:S, S+,N+ or A+. In fact if all of my knowledge was the sum of my certs, I probably wouldn't have this job at all. Even with my college courses I can honestly say that I have learned very little that contributes to my knowledge as an IT pro. My software design class has helped me speak to the developers with a common language but that's about it. I have to work with Sonicwall, Pfsense and soon Snort. I also have to work with threat sentry, Url scan, ACLs (ms and cisco), Active Directory and Vmware. I also have to troubleshoot and support custom pieces of software and various other things. Things that even if I gave my best effort there is no way I would be able to duplicate in a home lab. This is why experience trumps certs. Because I can talk about doing it and get certified in doing it and then even do it in a home lab but until you have done it with a CITO and COO on your ass. Until you cut yourself rebuilding a managers PCs just to find out it uses Unbuffered memory and you don't have any more, until you spend 6 hours AFTER your shift troubleshooting an issue that the vendor couldn't fix, you almost can't say you have "really" done it.

It's strange, 3 months ago I would have said that certs and exp are close to equal but they are not. The funny thing is my boss doesn't care what certs I have, neither do my coworkers or my "customers". They don't even care about my education. They only care about results. I seriously think certs are only useful for those trying to change jobs. That still doesn't mean don't do them, I am just speaking from my most recent experience.

The degree may be required to get the job to get the experience, but you can get some experience without a degree (I did and I am).

RockinRobin

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

You know what's funny, yesterday I finally understood why experience > certifications.

I was (and sort of still am ) troubleshooting an issue with a particular piece of software. It uses IIS, active sync among other things. Well ok so basically the vendor level 2 techs couldn't figure out why a certain part of the software isn't working. Well he basically said he will get back to me on monday. Well I did a little more digging and I found a few problems with the softwares web.config file as well as rights it didn't set and authentication modes it didn't change. I made the changes and it still didn't work. Well what they neglected to say is that the install doesn't register the needed dll files with iis (about 150 of them). After I did that, Bam it worked.

Why is this important? I didn't not learn anything about IIS or even how web servers work doing the CCNA, CCNA:S, S+,N+ or A+. In fact if all of my knowledge was the sum of my certs, I probably wouldn't have this job at all. Even with my college courses I can honestly say that I have learned very little that contributes to my knowledge as an IT pro. My software design class has helped me speak to the developers with a common language but that's about it. I have to work with Sonicwall, Pfsense and soon snort. I also have to work with threat sentry, Url scan, ACLs (ms and cisco), Active Directory and Vmware. I also have to troubleshoot and support custom pieces of software and various other things. Things that even if I gave my best effort there is no way I would be able to duplicate in a home lab. This is why experience trumps certs. Because I can talk about doing it and get certified in doing it and then even do it in a home lab but until you have done it with a CITO and COO on your ass. Until you cut yourself rebuilding a managers PCs just to find out it uses Unbuffered memory and you don't have any more, until you spend 6 hours AFTER your shift troubleshooting an issue that the vendor couldn't fix, you almost can't say you have "really" done it.

It's strange, 3 months ago I would have said that certs and exp are close to equal but they are not. The funny thing is my boss doesn't care what certs I have, neither do my coworkers or my "customers". They don't even care about my education. They only care about results. I seriously think certs are only useful for those trying to change jobs. That still doesn't mean don't do them, I am just speaking from my most recent experience.

The degree may be required to get the job to get the experience, but you can get some experience without a degree (I did and I am).

Great personal example you shared there. Thanks!

tpatt100

cooldudemanus wrote: »

You can get an entry level job with a few certs right?

From browsing these forums, it would appear that you can simply obtain certs to move up in this field. Now, I understand these certs are moderately-highly challenging intellectually. However, here what I am kind of picking up from the IT field.


Get a cert...move up...get another cert and exp move up more


In the medical field:

Get a 2-4 years of education or be stuck making bad money for the rest of your life. Only when you OBTAIN the 4 years of education do you have the opportunity to make decent money. Experience only builds upon itself when you are doing the specific job...which you can't obtain until you get the degree.

You sound like you want a quicker path into IT. Some job descriptions say "X" amount of experience will substitute "Y" numbers of years of college. The reason is companies realize that somebody going to school, put time into studying, writing papers, taking classes etc. Certs? Some take months, some take weeks. Your still saying on your resume that you lack experience and took some tests.

I am not saying somebody going to college is worth more but at least they know you went to somewhere accredited that should in theory follow certain educational guidelines.

NetworkingStudent

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

You know what's funny, yesterday I finally understood why experience > certifications.

I was (and sort of still am ) troubleshooting an issue with a particular piece of software. It uses IIS, active sync among other things. Well ok so basically the vendor level 2 techs couldn't figure out why a certain part of the software isn't working. Well he basically said he will get back to me on monday. Well I did a little more digging and I found a few problems with the softwares web.config file as well as rights it didn't set and authentication modes it didn't change. I made the changes and it still didn't work. Well what they neglected to say is that the install doesn't register the needed dll files with iis (about 150 of them). After I did that, Bam it worked.

Why is this important? I did not learn anything about IIS or even how web servers work doing the CCNA, CCNA:S, S+,N+ or A+. In fact if all of my knowledge was the sum of my certs, I probably wouldn't have this job at all. Even with my college courses I can honestly say that I have learned very little that contributes to my knowledge as an IT pro. My software design class has helped me speak to the developers with a common language but that's about it. I have to work with Sonicwall, Pfsense and soon Snort. I also have to work with threat sentry, Url scan, ACLs (ms and cisco), Active Directory and Vmware. I also have to troubleshoot and support custom pieces of software and various other things. Things that even if I gave my best effort there is no way I would be able to duplicate in a home lab. This is why experience trumps certs. Because I can talk about doing it and get certified in doing it and then even do it in a home lab but until you have done it with a CITO and COO on your ass. Until you cut yourself rebuilding a managers PCs just to find out it uses Unbuffered memory and you don't have any more, until you spend 6 hours AFTER your shift troubleshooting an issue that the vendor couldn't fix, you almost can't say you have "really" done it.

It's strange, 3 months ago I would have said that certs and exp are close to equal but they are not. The funny thing is my boss doesn't care what certs I have, neither do my coworkers or my "customers". They don't even care about my education. They only care about results. I seriously think certs are only useful for those trying to change jobs. That still doesn't mean don't do them, I am just speaking from my most recent experience.

The degree may be required to get the job to get the experience, but you can get some experience without a degree (I did and I am).

I agree that the certifications are nice to have, but having experience plays a key role in landing a job. I have been on the job hunt since December 2010 and when I mention my certifications most of the recruiters or employers don’t care or don’t know about them. They ask if I’m a hardware or software guy? What is my experience is with xzy technology? What classes did I take in college? What did I learn about in school? In fact, most employers and recruiters don’t care about my certs to be honest, but I try to always mention during an interview to validate my skills as someone trying to enter the IT field.

michaelcox

first, you have to define success.

I am 29 years old and have about 14 years of experience. My current job (2 years) hired me without a resume, knowing what certs I hold, nor what education I have. I've finished my associates since working for them, have done 1 cert, and working on others. I am going to be starting WGU on March 1st. Why? Because, in the future, if I want to change jobs, those things will not hurt me but could help me.

erpadmin

Bl8ckr0uter wrote: »

The degree may be required to get the job to get the experience, but you can get some experience without a degree (I did and I am).

You are beginning to believe....

You (and others) will have many more examples like that throughout your IT (and life). I still do, and have been in the game for a long time.

Well done.

cooldudemanus

There doesn't appear to be a concrete answer here.

SteveO86

Their probably won't be a concrete answer either.. Too many variables. No one can really say "yea sure don't bother getting a degree passing a cert will teach you everything"

Don't think the field of IT is easy either.. time an effort will needs to be dedicated to a earn a cert, but studying for a cert and passing a test is nothing when your remotely connected to a live production router looking for answers. Same with Windows Servers and desktop issues, users can do much to break a computer.

No matter how many certs/degrees one has, you will always need to do more research on particular subjects. (I can't tell you many KB's and vendor guides I've read or the dozens of books in my personal library)

TheSuperRuski

cooldudemanus wrote: »

There doesn't appear to be a concrete answer here.

I don`t think there is a concrete answer. Everyone`s experiences are different. I have certs(more than listed under my name) and only a few times have I been asked about them.

To answer your original question, you can succeed without a degree in IT but as someone else stated it depends on what you definition of success is. I am a contractor, and if I buckle down and work like there is no tomorrow, I can make 100k easy. I have no college experience but plan to attend. Simply because I don't want to have to work 14 hours a day to make that kind of money...I want to work 6 from my comfy CIO chair but I won`t get THERE without a degree.

Priston

cooldudemanus wrote: »

There doesn't appear to be a concrete answer here.

That's because there is no concrete answer. People have done it before, but to me it seems silly to drop out of college if you don't have any job lined up that you know will help you more than a degree will help you.

shecool

You don't need a degree to get into the field, but it will be harder. Some jobs may require you to have a degree in order to get certain promotions. That said, I recommend it. Finishing school was an amazing experience for me. It didn't just teach me some IT knowledge, it pushed me to become great group/lab work, troubleshooting, independent study and more. I would say ultimately without school, I wouldn't be able to learn as much as I could now. My school also gave me plenty of paid internship opportunities (Worked at 3 companies), so I was also able to get a ton of experience.

I have one classmate who was successful in IT purely from experience before finishing his diploma, but he was really lucky to get into his company in the first place.

So nah, you don't necessarily need a degree but I recommend it. For me, the benefits were outside of what I was taught.

----2 side notes:
Consider where you want to work - I've worked in 2 IT positions in the public sector, and I believe that they only hired those with degrees (And there was really no values in certs). Also, my program was well known around my area in the industry I was focusing on (Telecommunications), which makes getting interviews/job postings a lot easier, especially when you notice a lot of the work force is made of previous grads from you program .

twodogs62

I think things are changing. There are so many people looking for work now, a degree may set you apart the other applicants. Many of our desktop people are now getting Certs like a+, net+ and also working on degrees. IMO, the higher paid jobs will require a degree. May not always be the case, but it seems to be the current trend.

mikedisd2

cooldudemanus wrote: »

There doesn't appear to be a concrete answer here.

What do you want, a cookie? Figure it out, a degree isn't just a piece of paper, it's education. People here say you don't need one which is true, but that doesn't mean you should dismiss it. I fully regret not getting a BS as I now am suffering from lack of intrinsic knowhow in areas outside of servers and networking. I have to continually ask programmers and Unix guys about logistics that I would have known had I gone to Uni 10 years ago.

I also miss out on jobs in the mining sector because of no degree. It's not crucial criteria but don't trivialise it just because you've seen others do alright without one. Everyone's journey is different and I guarantee you will regret it in years to come if you don't finish up in college.

Give yourself the best chance of succeeding otherwise you may struggle in later years.

networker050184

Is a degree a concrete requirement for success? No. Will it help you succeed? Yes it will. If you are already in school and have the means to continue it will only help you. Breaking into the field is the hardest part and you want all the qualifications you can get.

cooldudemanus

networker050184 wrote: »

Is a degree a concrete requirement for success? No. Will it help you succeed? Yes it will. If you are already in school and have the means to continue it will only help you. Breaking into the field is the hardest part and you want all the qualifications you can get.

Does it matter what the degree is in?


I am observing that the IT field allows people without college degrees to succeed unlike a majority of the other fields Nursing,Accounting,Engineering ect.

jmasterj206

Some people do succeed without a degree for sure. But for every one that has succeeded I know 10 that are stuck in help desk jobs with low pay that aren't able to move to another position or job becuase they don't have a degree.

The people who don't have degrees and are getting paid well have a lot of experience which compensates for the lack of degree. All the jobs I see these days either ask for a degree or several years experience. You would have neither.

Finish your degree!

Turgon

cooldudemanus wrote: »

You probably all remember me. Well, fast forward a year later and I have about one year's worth of the college basics done.

Anyway, As I recall, IT is a field where you can get a good job without finishing college. Yes, I know it's dependent on experience,connections ect.


Is it changing? Do you still need a degree to succeed in IT?

EDIT: I am laughing. I just realized I spelled "succeed" in-correctly. Pretty sure you have to be able to spell "succeed" if you want to succeed....

Depends. At my shop in operations our juniors are Graduate Trainee Specialists with usually some prior experience in the field. Competition is high for these places but then so are the demands to get hired. If you dont have a degree you have no chance of being taken on as a 'Graduate Trainee Specialist'.

SteveLord

I am succeeding without one, but I am also eyeballing a WGU degree at some point in the future despite that.

Mike-Mike

There are lots of fields that you can succeed without a degree. I was a telephone man in 2009 and I made 80k with no degree, full benefits, etc... some other guys there who worked more overtime than me made well over a 100k, and we're in KY, that's not chump change son..

people who work for the company or water company in a tech role make more than that...

A degree opens up doors, but it doesn't guarantee anything... even if you have a law degree, the degree is just a piece of paper, you still have to know the information.... no difference than a cert...

SteveLord

Mike-Mike wrote: »

A degree opens up doors, but it doesn't guarantee anything... even if you have a law degree, the degree is just a piece of paper, you still have to know the information.... no difference than a cert...

The difference is this. One costs beer money and can be scheduled and acquired in less than a week. The other costs thousands of dollars and typically takes 2-4 years of your time to acquire.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

cooldudemanus

I think the big thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the "core" knowledge of IT is changing at such a rapid rate that a degree in the field is useless as the knowledge could be useless years later.



Unlike other professions such as Doctors where the core knowledge only changes slightly...


maybe not?

cisco_certs

I think you can succeed in IT without college IF you have 3-5 years experience on IT but as an entry level, you will have a hard time finding a job in IT unless your just fixing computers. Most of the IT jobs right now in Monster and Dice will asked for a degree with certs. You can apply for it but you will be competing with people that has degrees, years of experience and certs. I see lots of network engineers job opening that doesnt asked for a degree but requires a 5 years experience on the specific job.

Its even more harder for an entry level to find a job since its recession. Overqualified guys will be applying for the same jobs as you. Now the employer or HR will filter and will tossed your resume. However, that doesnt mean its not possible to get into IT without degree. I think you still have more edge if you have a degree.

Goodluck