An old man in Germany who wants to change careers.

djfunz

Hi guys and gals, I'll try to keep this short. I just turned 29 and have been been a drafter the past 7 years. I grew tired of it realizing that I would always be the grunt of the firm compared to the Architects. Given the state of the economy in the States at the time and the lack of construction that was going on, I decided to move to Germany for a while to be with my girlfriend. She's German and was able to help me with the transition. For the next year, I studied the German language and the material in the CompTIA A+ books. I have always had a passion for computers and technology and decided after some time in Germany, to pursue this passion.

So here I am a 1-1/2 years later sitting in the IT department of a shipping company with something called a praktikum (basically a low paid internship). I'm playing sort of a service desk role but sitting in the IT department. I answer calls, do Tickets and the like. Imaging computers, installing software, configuring Lotus Notes and basic troubleshooting. I never took the A+ exam because it means nothing here for the most part. In fact none of my co-workers in the firm have even heard of CompTIA. So I figured based on my limited funds, I would pursue in the future more advanced recognized certs from the likes of Microsoft, Cisco and LPIC.

So if anyone here has lived or studied in Germany, you all probably know that without a college degree and/or whats referred to here as an Ausbildung (a three year apprenticeship at a firm combined with trade school attendance), one has no chance to work anywhere in a career position. So with that being said, I was offered by the company I'm with now to take part in an Ausbildung. With this 3 year training, I would acquire my Microsoft, Linux and Cisco certificates plus hands on experience in the firm. Major hindrance is that everything would of course be in German. I'm still not fluent in the language. This would of course make everything more difficult for me. Since the Ausbildung is not recognized as education in the States, I would only be able to count all this as 4 years or so of experience. All the while not making much money while I'm here ''training''.

So in my situation, if anyone is even in a similar crazy situation like me, what would you do? I would gladly come back to the states now, but I don't think without any certs or real experience I would have a chance. I could also come back after a year of the Ausbildung because by then, I would have experience and at least a Linux cert. I have been lurking these forums for about a year now and finally decided to sign up and seek some advice. My long term plan is to go back to the states and hopefully, with the certificates and years of experience, get a good paying job doing what I love. My main disadvantage would be that I still would have no degree so to speak and that I will be 32 or so in three years time.

I thank everyone for taking the time to read my novel and give any insight possible.

VAHokie56

I would do the program that is going to help get you the certs. Even if it is not recognized as education in the states you are still getting professional level certs and experience and those two things will help in any country.

UnixGuy

you are still young !

If you take this internship/training offer, then 3 yrs from now you will have the necessary experience + you will be fluent in German. You can either move back to the States and look for a job with better chances because you will have 3+ yrs of experience + certs, or you can stay in the same company and see if they give you a higher pay or you can later move to a different company in Germany.

If money is an issue then maybe u can try part time job or something...

ilcram19-2

Awesome Country Germany never been there but i would love to go. we have the Europe corporate office over there excellent co-workers and people with excellent job benefits.
i think you making the right move just get as much as experiance you can and knowledge you can the Germans are very smart people hehe!!!

NinjaBoy

I would do the program, gain the experience and the professional certifications. And then if you're worried about the lack of academic qualifications, see if you can do a part-time or distance learning degree from a recognised Uni.

-Ken

djfunz

Well the reason I said I was old is because I still think compared to others making their start in IT, I'm pretty old. To be starting a to learn a new career at 29 IMHO is kinda old. But everyone is of course entitled to their opinion.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I feel the same. I suppose I'm just wondering how many other possible better opportunities in the states there are to do something similar and still make a little money. I like California, Colorado, and New York as starting points. Sometimes I get the feeling that everything is moving so slowly and I want to learn faster. The company I'm with now is light on staff and the current person that is charge of training me at the firm has a lot on his plate. He's also 6 years younger than me, which gives me the old man feeling. But looking at the glass half full says ''at least I have a job and training''.

Right now I'm in the direction of learning Linux. Nothing network yet, just basic Terminal commands on Kubuntu.

Matt27[lt]

27 years old and still feeling very very young Going to move to Germany in 6 months. Where are you located?

lordy

First off, welcome to Germany

It seems you are faced with a difficult decision here. From my point of few a lot of it depends on the answer to two questions:

Do you want to live in Germany for the next 3+ years?
Are you willing to become fluent in German ? (I know it's difficult)

If the answer to both of them is yes and you can get along moneywise then I would go for the Ausbildung. It should give you a solid base from which to start your IT career whatever you choose it to become. You should be aware however, that an Ausbildung is more on a High School than on a College Level. At your age I would assume that German could/would be your only challenge there. On the other hand you would sure make some great progress if you are attending classes in german. If that holds true and you have some spare time you could still invest it in something like WGU. (Disclaimer: I have no opinion on WGU. I just read about and it sounds interesting). That would allow you to return to the US (If you wish too) in maybe 4-5 years with a degree and hands-on-experience.

What does your girlfriend think about your situation? Would she be willing to go to the US with you?

Since you said you are working in a shipping company are you located in the North of Germany?

veritas_libertas

zerogames wrote: »

29 is not old still very young.

Yeah, and now he has me feeling old

djfunz

Yup, you guessed correct my friend, I'm living in Bremen right now. That brings me to the answer to one of your questions. Are we willing to endure 3 years here in Bremen? To be 100% honest with you, I really don't know. The main problem we have with the north of Germany is the weather. It seems like it's grey and rainy here 85% of the time. I lived in Florida for over 20 years, so it's been quite a change of climate for me. To be quite honest, it's easy to get depressed here during the seemingly long winters. I've already been here for a while and 3+ years more does seem like a very long time. So I think it's impossible to give an accurate answer.

So far I don't see a realistic opportunity to gain experience and also make money learning this field in the states. Right now my girlfriend makes enough to combine with what I make to pay our bills, so I think we could get along moneywise.

The other 3 coworkers in the IT department in our branch have also completed the Ausbildung, so if you can further clarify what you mean by the Ausbildung being on a high school level that would be helpful. They are also seemingly successful. I still don't fully understand the Ausbildung completely. My girlfriend said it's an opportunity for people who don't have the grades to study, be able to get a proper education and obtain a good job here. But this particular Ausbildung will also grand me the opportunity to obtain Cisco and Microsoft certificates so I don't understand how that could be high school level academics.
As far as learning the language, I think I would welcome the idea to become fluent in a language as difficult as German. I'm already at a decent level and just have to polish up the grammer and better my vocabulary. It can only help my resume that's for sure.

I have seen a few posts here regarding WGU but I have always been a little skeptic when it comes to online schools and credibility. Plus it would cost me a good deal of money I don't have at the moment. It is however an option to look at though if others here have had good experiences with it. I will do some further reading about it tomorrow.

My girlfriend wants to leave Germany and come back to the states at some point as well. We just will have the problem of getting her a green card and a job. She is fluent in English (like most Germans) but still lacks the experience she needs to get a decent paying job in the states. She does have her Bachelors degree and an Ausbildung though, so she does have the credentials. So she doesn't mind staying for a while here either to collect some further experience.

lordy

I can totally understand when you talk about the weather and the seemingly endless winters. I am also planning to, at least temporarily, relocate somewhere where the weather is better

If starting the Ausbildung is your only option right now then I would go for it. If money is not a big issue then you don't have much to lose. You should check out if you qualify to shorten it to 2,5 or even 2 years but I don't know the exact requirements for that. Your boss can probably find out.

Becoming fluent in German will definitely be a great asset for you in the future. I myself am working for a US company here in Germany and being fluent in both English and German often gives me a head start. You should definitely look for companies that have offices in both Germany and the US. They could support you when moving back to the US.

Regarding the level of the Ausbildung what I was trying to say is that the requirements are not as tough as they are for the University. Anybody who has attended 9 years of school (I assume that's comparable to US High School) can start an Ausbildung. So things like math will be far easier then on Bachelor level. I consistently hear from people that are in Ausbildung that school is boring them to death. But you have to check it out yourself.

Gaining the certs will surely be a big plus and help you finding a job if you choose to move someplace else. As far as I know they are usually NOT part of the Ausbildung so it seems that your employer is adding them as a bonus.

Paladin

djfunz wrote: »

Hi guys and gals, I'll try to keep this short. I just turned 29 and have been been a drafter the past 7 years. I grew tired of it realizing that I would always be the grunt of the firm compared to the Architects. Given the state of the economy in the States at the time and the lack of construction that was going on, I decided to move to Germany for a while to be with my girlfriend. She's German and was able to help me with the transition. For the next year, I studied the German language and the material in the CompTIA A+ books. I have always had a passion for computers and technology and decided after some time in Germany, to pursue this passion.

So here I am a 1-1/2 years later sitting in the IT department of a shipping company with something called a praktikum (basically a low paid internship). I'm playing sort of a service desk role but sitting in the IT department. I answer calls, do Tickets and the like. Imaging computers, installing software, configuring Lotus Notes and basic troubleshooting. I never took the A+ exam because it means nothing here for the most part. In fact none of my co-workers in the firm have even heard of CompTIA. So I figured based on my limited funds, I would pursue in the future more advanced recognized certs from the likes of Microsoft, Cisco and LPIC.

So if anyone here has lived or studied in Germany, you all probably know that without a college degree and/or whats referred to here as an Ausbildung (a three year apprenticeship at a firm combined with trade school attendance), one has no chance to work anywhere in a career position. So with that being said, I was offered by the company I'm with now to take part in an Ausbildung. With this 3 year training, I would acquire my Microsoft, Linux and Cisco certificates plus hands on experience in the firm. Major hindrance is that everything would of course be in German. I'm still not fluent in the language. This would of course make everything more difficult for me. Since the Ausbildung is not recognized as education in the States, I would only be able to count all this as 4 years or so of experience. All the while not making much money while I'm here ''training''.

So in my situation, if anyone is even in a similar crazy situation like me, what would you do? I would gladly come back to the states now, but I don't think without any certs or real experience I would have a chance. I could also come back after a year of the Ausbildung because by then, I would have experience and at least a Linux cert. I have been lurking these forums for about a year now and finally decided to sign up and seek some advice. My long term plan is to go back to the states and hopefully, with the certificates and years of experience, get a good paying job doing what I love. My main disadvantage would be that I still would have no degree so to speak and that I will be 32 or so in three years time.

I thank everyone for taking the time to read my novel and give any insight possible.

Complete your degree online with the University of Phoenix
Focus on IT Project Management

The future of IT is in these areas, and if you are smart, you will pursue one of these areas if you plan to make a living in IT:

• Project Management
• Program Management (after five or more years of project management)
• Service Management (if you want some training materials, e-mail me at a.paladin@live.com)
• Compliance Management & Auditing (internal and external)

I am giving you this advice because if you start from the absolute bottom, such as getting MS desktop and system administration education, experience, and certifications, you are going to be a much older man before you realize any real earning power in your career. Getting a degree in IT project management from the University of Phoenix would meet several of your needs and really jump-start your career.

Good luck with your career and your German girlfriend.


P.S. Learn to focus, study and stay the heck away from computer games. They will only mess up your mind, no matter what country you are hanging out in. The Science of Making Decisions - Newsweek

djfunz

lordy wrote: »

I can totally understand when you talk about the weather and the seemingly endless winters. I am also planning to, at least temporarily, relocate somewhere where the weather is better

If starting the Ausbildung is your only option right now then I would go for it. If money is not a big issue then you don't have much to lose. You should check out if you qualify to shorten it to 2,5 or even 2 years but I don't know the exact requirements for that. Your boss can probably find out.

Becoming fluent in German will definitely be a great asset for you in the future. I myself am working for a US company here in Germany and being fluent in both English and German often gives me a head start. You should definitely look for companies that have offices in both Germany and the US. They could support you when moving back to the US.

Regarding the level of the Ausbildung what I was trying to say is that the requirements are not as tough as they are for the University. Anybody who has attended 9 years of school (I assume that's comparable to US High School) can start an Ausbildung. So things like math will be far easier then on Bachelor level. I consistently hear from people that are in Ausbildung that school is boring them to death. But you have to check it out yourself.

Gaining the certs will surely be a big plus and help you finding a job if you choose to move someplace else. As far as I know they are usually NOT part of the Ausbildung so it seems that your employer is adding them as a bonus.

I believe the option is there to finish early and test out but I'm not going to try to guess on how long everything is going to take me. It's a lot of theory in the beginning and I haven't done any math or the like for over 10 years so I'm not sure how boring it will be for me. Plus adding the fact that the courses are in a foreign language will add to the difficulty level as well. So 2-3 years are my expectations at any rate.

I'll have to do a Google search for companies that are in both countries. That is always a plus. The company I'm working for now is worldwide. Not a US company though.

I had a more detailed conversation with my co-worker today regarding the certifications. I found out the classes to learn the material to take the tests to gain the certificates are offered as electives. These are optional at the school and I would have to pay for the tests myself. They are tax deductible here however. I would rather take elective courses having to do with IT then some sports elective though anyway.

Paladin wrote: »

Complete your degree online with the University of Phoenix
Focus on IT Project Management

The future of IT is in these areas, and if you are smart, you will pursue one of these areas if you plan to make a living in IT:

• Project Management
• Program Management (after five or more years of project management)
• Service Management (if you want some training materials, e-mail me at a.paladin@live.com)
• Compliance Management & Auditing (internal and external)

I am giving you this advice because if you start from the absolute bottom, such as getting MS desktop and system administration education, experience, and certifications, you are going to be a much older man before you realize any real earning power in your career. Getting a degree in IT project management from the University of Phoenix would meet several of your needs and really jump-start your career.

Good luck with your career and your German girlfriend.


P.S. Learn to focus, study and stay the heck away from computer games. They will only mess up your mind, no matter what country you are hanging out in. The Science of Making Decisions - Newsweek

Hi Paladin,

I was reading over your post and I have to say my main concern right with online schooling and education in the States in general is the cost. That's my main problem with education in the US. It's not a right, it's a privilege. I flat out don't have any money to spend on education right now. Even WGU costs over $6,000 per year. That's no small chunk of change. In Germany anyone can go to a public college for free provided there is a place and learn. I really like that. But rant aside, I don't see this as a realistic option at the moment.

I think all the Management positions are nice and I read over them with my friend Google's help but do you really think I'm going to get a position in management without any certs or experience? I have to put in the grease work first, get my hands dirty learning and understanding the tech and how things work before I can acquire something like that. It's definitely a nice goal for the future though. But probably very dry and not what I would like to start with. But I do get your general though that IT is drastically changing and we need to be prepared.

Great point on the concentration though. I find it difficult at times to stay focused. I have some ADD disadvantages so I have to stay focused. Information overload in this day and age is very much for real I think.