HELP - I feel like my CIS/MIS degree is worthless

jeepster78

Read this forum a lot but I had to reply to this post because it says so much about the value of an IT degree. No degree is ever worthless but I will have to say that a computer or technology degree of any kind is the bottom of the barrel in degrees.

Our IT dept has 4 guys and out of the 4 I'm the only one with a degree yet I make no more than the others even though the large part of the network and all servers are my responsibility because I'm the only one with training. Is my current degree doing me any good...nope but I'm working on another in a different field.

BTW I'm far from green and have a degree, A+, Net+, and MCSA and years of experience. CS/IT degrees are great if you want to work with people who make as much as you with no degree yet have to answer all their questions and how to make something work.

networker050184

jeepster78 wrote: »

Read this forum a lot but I had to reply to this post because it says so much about the value of an IT degree. No degree is ever worthless but I will have to say that a computer or technology degree of any kind is the bottom of the barrel in degrees.

Our IT dept has 4 guys and out of the 4 I'm the only one with a degree yet I make no more than the others even though the large part of the network and all servers are my responsibility because I'm the only one with training. Is my current degree doing me any good...nope but I'm working on another in a different field.

BTW I'm far from green and have a degree, A+, Net+, and MCSA and years of experience. CS/IT degrees are great if you want to work with people who make as much as you with no degree yet have to answer all their questions and how to make something work.

Not to turn this into a big argument, but someone knowing their job in IT rarely has much to do with having a degree or not (which is why most places do not require them). I've had plenty people with degrees need to ask me for answers. The work is very specialized and generally takes on the job training to master a technology.

Please don't generalize all people off the few you have actually interacted with.

jeepster78

networker050184 wrote: »

Not to turn this into a big argument, but someone knowing their job in IT rarely has much to do with having a degree or not (which is why most places do not require them). I've had plenty people with degrees need to ask me for answers. The work is very specialized and generally takes on the job training to master a technology.

Please don't generalize all people off the few you have actually interacted with.

Great post and it coincides with what I was saying, IT degree = not needed.

darkerz

jeepster78 wrote: »

Great post and it coincidences with what I was saying, IT degree = not needed.

This is somewhat of a stupid statement.

=/

The market is way over saturated with IT professionals, HR has no problem shifting through people who put effort, time and money into higher education WITH the genuine skill rather then people without accredation but who are knowledgeable.

In the end, it's about what's marketable. Having a degree and being good will always get you the interview and job over a guy with the same experience and knowledge without. Pure and simple.

Think you know better? Human Resources and Senior engineers will tend to disagree with you.

BUT I DO NOT DISAGREE THAT VERY SKILLED, UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS DO BREAK THE TREND. It's rare and good for them, but those are rare cases and it's impossible to over generalize in this kind of discussion.

Besides, the experience of a 4 year college and degree, the exposure to mathmatics, liberal arts, English, technical classes, light engineering, project and group oriented seminars as well are all worth the exposure. You meet new people, learn new things and develop as a person.

Some people get lucky in IT and love to wallow in their own self admitted ignorance about college and the degree phenomenon, but I tend to find those people have never lived in an area where the bare minimum for a job is a 4 year degree + Experience + Certs + References + Specialization...

Then again, I live very close to Redmond as opposed to Utah or Wisconsin.

jeepster78

Not wanting to start a big argument but I feel for the OP, I to feel that my degree was wasted in it subject matter but I have come to grips with and will have a second degree in a little over a year in a new field of study.

networker050184

darkerz wrote: »

In the end, it's about what's marketable. Having a degree and being good will always get you the interview and job over a guy with the same experience and knowledge without. Pure and simple.

Its not that pure and simple. Every place has its own requirements and each manager has their own personal requirements when hiring someone. You can't make blanket statements like that.

Obviously the more qualifications you have the better so I'm not saying anyone should not pursue a degree. Its not going to get you hired over someone without one just because you have it though.

jeepster78

Great statement and very true

At the age of 30 I have come to the conclusion that the only degrees worth getting are for careers that require them, nursing, doctor, psychologist, lawyer, teacher, etc. getting a degree in a field that it is not a requirement is nice to have but if you are doing it for jobs and financial benefits your taking a gamble.

darkerz

networker050184 wrote: »

Its not that pure and simple. Every place has its own requirements and each manager has their own personal requirements when hiring someone. You can't make blanket statements like that.

Obviously the more qualifications you have the better so I'm not saying anyone should not pursue a degree. Its not going to get you hired over someone without one just because you have it though.

I agree.

After some soul searching, my opinion is; You can do well without a degree if you are skilled, motivated, in the environment and certified even. But it never hurts to do more, especially for management and Senior positions.

A neutral point, I don't like starting fights over menial things

it_consultant

The market is not really saturated with IT professionals. It is saturated with bad IT professionals. If you are a really quality guy or gal, this is still a great field because there are so many opportunities.

I am of the opinion that a degree in IT is generally worthless for the entry level IT guy. That doesn't mean that it won't become valuable later on or that you wasted your time getting it. I don't want degree'd people in this forum to become offended. The fault is not totally yours, there is a huge disparity between academic IT and actual IT. There is even a disparity between certification IT and actual IT (like I know how to set up an AD bridgehead server but I have never done this), but that disparity seems to be much less than in the academic world.

kvermillion1

Im in the same boat buddy. I graduated in December, still looking for the first job. Its probably going to have to be helpdesk of some sort and you should probably start looking at some certs, starting with Network+ and/or A+. On the flip side, I cant see where you're located but you should check usajobs.gov, they have some very entry level positions for IT specialists, grade 5-7 where the only requirement is a BS with a high GPA. Im awaiting some responses on many of these apps as well, just takes a lot longer to hear back.

Turgon

it_consultant wrote: »

The market is not really saturated with IT professionals. It is saturated with bad IT professionals. If you are a really quality guy or gal, this is still a great field because there are so many opportunities.

I am of the opinion that a degree in IT is generally worthless for the entry level IT guy. That doesn't mean that it won't become valuable later on or that you wasted your time getting it. I don't want degree'd people in this forum to become offended. The fault is not totally yours, there is a huge disparity between academic IT and actual IT. There is even a disparity between certification IT and actual IT (like I know how to set up an AD bridgehead server but I have never done this), but that disparity seems to be much less than in the academic world.

That's because degrees in IT have historically prepared people for systems analysis, business analysis, hardware and protocol theoretics or programming. They have not kept up with the support explosion circa 1997 or adequately prepared people for those sorts of roles. They are still useful for helpdesk and entry level jobs because they help get you picked up. The theory and what have you tends to be of more value later on in your career.

Jimbosuds

Hello,

I realize that there are about 2 years from the last post on this blog...But, this blog is the reason why I just registered on this website, and it is just what I was looking for.

I went through an entire MS Cert course while in the military, but never wound up taking the tests for the certs because I didn't think I needed them at the time( boy am I ever regretting that). Then, I separated from the
Military with no certs and went to school and got a BS in MIS.

I thought that the MIS degree would get me in the door somewhere. Well...2 years later I am still yet to get a job in IT. I wound up settling for something not in the IT field that I'm not at all happy with.

I think this forum has just woken me up to the fact that I need to go get some certs before I start my IT career.

Params7

MIS grad here. I feel your pain OP. Feel like I wasted my time pursuing this when I started hunting for IT jobs. I realized that you pretty much have to start at the bottom of the barrel and work your way up. An A+, or N+ or a CCENT will help get you that entry level gig. Recruiters have told me that getting an MIS degree is a huge accomplishment, but keep in mind this is a Business-IT management degree with Database courses in it. It doesn't strictly specialize in IT. This degree will help loads later down in the line, but to get the experience ticking for you - start studying for entry-level IT certs to get that entry level IT gig.

Moon Child

Exactly how I felt when I got my degree in CIS years ago. That is why I got experience in other fields and later became a license in Education and became a Teacher. IT is a great field, but I think it is helpful to have other career options. IT is a great field to do on the side or on your own for extra cash. A lot of contract work. When I finally got a job in IT most of my co-workers actually did not have IT degrees, but they had years of experience and very valuable certs. In IT you learn that the degree doesn't matter much it is your experience and what certs you have. I worked with a girl who had a degree in Journalism, a guy who had a degree in communications, an economics major, another guy got his degree in general studies. They all had lots of experience and certifications. Completely different ball game in the Education field, your degree and what licenses you have are king.

Ismaeljrp

Your first chances of deeper exposure in IT will most likely have to happen within the company you work on support. By demonstrating your knowledge and desire with excellent performance, continued education and certifications! ... also develop good soft skills, and try to get on good terms with the IT guys in the departments you're one day hoping to work with. They might give you something small to work on, you do well you might get more, and eventually a new position if all goes well. The pay bump may not be big, since it's still in the same company but once you're in that position gaining more experience, you're golden. It's all about rinsing and repeating after that, if your progress halts, move on to bigger and better things.

These are things I have learned reading through these forums, I'm still a college student, but I'm trying to do things this way..currently about to test for CCNA.

DissonantData

At least people with MIS/CIS degrees have a "related" degree. At this point I am working towards a CCENT/CCNA just go get somewhere. Maybe I should have done a degree in IS with a minor in CS, but oh well.

Moon Child

jeepster78 wrote: »

Great statement and very true

At the age of 30 I have come to the conclusion that the only degrees worth getting are for careers that require them, nursing, doctor, psychologist, lawyer, teacher, etc. getting a degree in a field that it is not a requirement is nice to have but if you are doing it for jobs and financial benefits your taking a gamble.

Very well put, hence I later got a degree in Education for that very reason. Although school is about to start, there still are 110 job vacancies that need to be filled in my subject area SPED. For about every 200 resumes I send out for IT I may get 2-5 responses. For every 5 teaching vacancies I apply for I usually get 1 or 2 calls for an interview. One thing nice about a professional degree is it eliminates a lot of competition. Although a lot of people would make just as good teachers as those with the degree and license, they can't even get their foot in the door because they haven't completed the degree program and licensing required. Same can be said for accounting. You need a 4 year accounting degree and usually a CPA or some type of certification to even be considered for an accounting position. Not only that but you have to have the appropriate license for that state, different states have different licensing requirements and some states are not reciprocal with others. A lot of the competition is already eliminated for you. Same thing with many trades, you have to complete a 4 year trade program and an apprenticeship even to be considered for the job. I have come to the conclusion that the best degree to get is in Nursing. It is a very hard program, but once completed along with the proper licensing your set. Another thing with IT too to consider if its that hard to get hired, then its that easy for them to get rid of you and replace you if they decide your not the best fit then who knows when the next opportunity comes again. With many professional degrees and especially nursing those positions are a lot harder to fill. I talked with a nurse manager once at a hospital about this and she said just as long as the nurse had a pulse she would keep the nurse regardless of how the nurse performed because they were that desperate for nursing staff. Look at the male nurse who murdered patients(Charles Cullen), he was let go and yet repeatedly could easily find another nursing job no problem! I know a woman who scored like only a 900 on her SAT and went to an average nursing school who now makes over 70k+ a year as a nurse. The healthcare professionals really are the best deals out there.

jengen

Hello im currently 34 years old I just went to my local community college to sign up for an associates degree doing programming or IT (havent decided which yet) but after talking to a counselor he says at my rate of schooling it will take 4-5 years and ill be 40 or almost 40 is it worth it? at that age?

Nemowolf

jengen wrote: »

Hello im currently 34 years old I just went to my local community college to sign up for an associates degree doing programming or IT (havent decided which yet) but after talking to a counselor he says at my rate of schooling it will take 4-5 years and ill be 40 or almost 40 is it worth it? at that age?

ANY JC will take you 2-3 years of full time student status to complete a degree as long as your classes are available and your able to take them without other conflicts. Your best bet is to talk to a councilor and find out what colleges they have transfer agreements available and work towards the transfer along with your degree program. Even if you don't complete ALL of your undergrad to earn an AA, you can earn your transfer credits and go to a Uni to complete the minor and work toward your Bachelors.

I would highly recommend you go into the CIS/MIS what ever office and find out if you can get a councilor specific to students in their department/major. This way you skip the bull and go straight to someone who knows the programs inside and out. Leverage this to get contacts and network with other professors and students. Ask about internships and externships, there is a difference and how you can use them for college credits and the experience you need to do the job. As you start doing the work, you will get the hands on experience to know if its really what your looking to do before sinking 10s of thousands in an education that you don't want anything to do.

Cheers.

it_consultant

jengen wrote: »

Hello im currently 34 years old I just went to my local community college to sign up for an associates degree doing programming or IT (havent decided which yet) but after talking to a counselor he says at my rate of schooling it will take 4-5 years and ill be 40 or almost 40 is it worth it? at that age?

Yes. Programmers aren't going away anytime soon and you would have, potentially, 30 years of work as a programmer if you get employment right after you graduate. Realistically, you could get employment sooner as an intern or a junior developer somewhere.

E Double U

After I got my degree my first IT job was building, delivering, and installing pc's at local schools. I was making $10/hourly with no benefits. Did that work for over two years and then I got my big break joining a telco's NOC troubleshooting circuit outages on Cisco routers. That led to joining the config team, then the SOC, and I now manage a bank's firewalls.

Everyone has to start somewhere man.

hellolin

How can you guys possibly having trouble finding IT gigs using this degree? Am I reading right?
I am still in school right now, not even in my senior year, studying CIS, have not yet even take a cisco course yet, also no certs whatsoever. But I have already completed an internship at a small MSP, used that experience to wrote my resume, then got calls and emails and interviews from the state department, a big local dotcom, and up to google summer internship(I asked if anyone had experience interviewing with them a while ago, but I cancelled the interview because I got an offer from another company). Yes it is lowly desktop support gigs that pays under $20 a hour, but since I still got at least a year of college to go this is not that bad of a job, there are so many openings in IT right now especially in the lower part like the help desk stuff because so many people leave those positions after a year or two. I am now working as an intern for the big local dotcom and already making $16 a hour, mind you the guys that I am working with are all from local ITT tech and U of P those for-profit school as well, so I don't think it is the problem of the school or the degree, it's up to you to learn what's important in IT and TRANSLATE that skill into profit!

Ukimokia

jengen wrote: »

Hello im currently 34 years old I just went to my local community college to sign up for an associates degree doing programming or IT (havent decided which yet) but after talking to a counselor he says at my rate of schooling it will take 4-5 years and ill be 40 or almost 40 is it worth it? at that age?

My mother is getting ready to finish her degree and just turned 54 this year. A degree can always be useful at any age.

no!all!

I have to agree with everyone else...yes, you have a degree but you don't have the experience to back it up.

scaredoftests

Get as much experience as you can (in all areas of IT). After a couple of years, you will be awarded for sucking it up for awhile..

mikelau13

hellolin wrote: »

How can you guys possibly having trouble finding IT gigs using this degree? Am I reading right?

I am still in school right now, not even in my senior year, studying CIS, have not yet even take a cisco course yet, also no certs whatsoever. But I have already completed an internship at a small MSP, used that experience to wrote my resume, then got calls and emails and interviews from the state department, a big local dotcom, and up to google summer internship(I asked if anyone had experience interviewing with them a while ago, but I cancelled the interview because I got an offer from another company). Yes it is lowly desktop support gigs that pays under $20 a hour, but since I still got at least a year of college to go this is not that bad of a job, there are so many openings in IT right now especially in the lower part like the help desk stuff because so many people leave those positions after a year or two. I am now working as an intern for the big local dotcom and already making $16 a hour, mind you the guys that I am working with are all from local ITT tech and U of P those for-profit school as well, so I don't think it is the problem of the school or the degree, it's up to you to learn what's important in IT and TRANSLATE that skill into profit!

It is what most guys have been saying in this thread - experience is king. And you do have some experience as a interns v.s. some who doesn't.

mikelau13

jengen wrote: »

Hello im currently 34 years old I just went to my local community college to sign up for an associates degree doing programming or IT (havent decided which yet) but after talking to a counselor he says at my rate of schooling it will take 4-5 years and ill be 40 or almost 40 is it worth it? at that age?

Depending on how do you define "worth" it as it is pretty subjective.

A programmer can become $90k USD annual salary after 4 years of graduation - but the bottom line is that you have to work very hard, willing to overtime, willing to learn (read a lot of books, certifications), and being brave to keep moving around, pick up any type of projects.

On the other hand, I have seen some lazy programmers they are still struggling with $50k salary after 10 years of experience - these people come to office to work without contributing anything else except for writing their own codes; then go home to watch TV without spending time to self-study; not willing to move around to absorb different experience and skills; they only have a plain 10 years old degree and no certifications.