-1 point = for having a foreign name?

tech.me.now

Does having both foreign first and last names make me more prone to discrimination in the IT industry?

How did this come about? Let me give you a little background: A close friend and I are two unemployed guys who are changing careers to IT. We both were working for a non-profit agency until we got laid off due to budget cuts. He has a degree in pyschology opposed to my sociology degree. Because we're good friends and good friends share ideas and information, and thanks to keenon's guide to resumes , it so happens our resumes and cover letters look similar. So, we submitted our resumes to various places.

Now, with all that said. How in the world so many recruiters call him while I stare at my cell phone, thinking my wireless service may be messed up? Funny thing is, he bluntly told me "Dude, they can't pronounce your Asian name, they're not going to even try to call you. Use a fake name" And he laughed. What an ******* lol.

In all seriousness, I really want to rule this out as a possibility for not getting calls, but he got me thhhhhhinking. Considering what happened on 9/11 and incidents with Toyota, is discrimination prevalent nowadays in the IT industry? Please prove his "theory" wrong !

Essendon

IMHO, it is discrimination in my eyes too, but I met a recruiter (from a reputable company) once and she said recruiters do tend to skip over people with difficult-to-pronounce names. My advice would be to shorten your name, say if your name was Arradhiyatul (just googled for a difficult Indonesian name), just call yourself Ari or Arrad. Dont change to Mike or Chris or something like that, but if shortening your difficult-to-pronounce name to something easier gets you more calls, do it. It's difficult as it is, so do it within reason.

tech.me.now

Hmm, why didn't I think of that? Thanks a bunch for that advice!

Maybe I should also include "U.S. citizen" and "Can enunciate English words" and have it in bold LOL

sheckler

Give yourself a badass name like Magnus Steele or Max Fightmaster

Essendon

tech.me.now wrote: »

Maybe I should also include "U.S. citizen" and "Can enunciate English words" and have it in bold LOL

Or maybe after your original name put in brackets [It's not that difficult to pronounce, you twat]...

But sure put in the US citizen bit, absolutely do it. Anything within reason that gets you more calls.

sheckler wrote: »

Give yourself a badass name like Magnus Steele or Max Fightmaster

LOL..I needed a laugh, nice one...

drew726

I don't think employers care because some of the most brilliant people I've met have some of the most unpronounceable names.

tech.me.now

LOL!!! Talking about how to make your resumes stand from the rest! LOL

tech.me.now

drew726 wrote: »

I don't think employers care because some of the most brilliant people I've met have some of the most unpronounceable names.

I wish more people in this world think like you, and are "color-blind" when it comes to people. I live in southern California. It has diverse communities which comes with racism attached. I'm sure you some of you have heard of the UCLA girl's rant last month--just as an example.

Slowhand

It's been a fact of life for a lot longer than most people think, since well, WELL before 9/11. My parents and I moved to the U.S. in 1990, and both my mother and father have very foreign-sounding names: Majken (my-ken), and Göran (yuh-run). Usually, my mom would spell her name with an i instead of a k so people wouldn't pronounce it "Madjken", and my dad ended up simply having people refer to him as "Ron". It's not exactly fair, but it is an unfortunate fact of life that there will be a bit of hesitation on the part of Americans to take you seriously if your name sounds out-of-place or you have an accent.

While we're in the process of making things better, that won't help you in the here and now. My best advice, follow Essendon's suggestion and either shorten your name down or give yourself a "nickname" like my dad did. Hopefully, someday soon, it won't matter if your name is Eugene or Yevgeniy. . . but for now, you need a job and you're going to have to do what it takes to make that happen.

Best of luck.

certhelp

tech.me.now wrote: »

Does having both foreign first and last names make me more prone to discrimination in the IT industry?

Being another "foreign person" with long first name I can relate.

My firstname is so long and complicated for many though some who are used to pronouncing foreign names, have no problem with it. I usually use a truncated name .. 6 letters or even 3 letters because some still have problem with pronouncing 6 letter name which isn't that hard to pronounce. You should see how many people can't even pronounce that. Sometimes, I come across a few people who can't even pronounce 3 letter name. I give up and tell them just call me V -- first letter of first name.

tech.me.now wrote: »

In all seriousness, I really want to rule this out as a possibility for not getting calls, but he got me thhhhhhinking. Considering what happened on 9/11 and incidents with Toyota, is discrimination prevalent nowadays in the IT industry? Please prove his "theory" wrong !

When I used to put my full first name, I still used to get calls even if nothing panned out. But do truncate or pick an easy to pronounce name.

blargoe

I have seen resumes being tossed aside with difficult or obviously foreign names because it was assumed that it would be hard to communicate with them verbally. I say, if that's a concern, at least phone screen them like you would any other candidate with a good resume and you'll find out whether communication in clear English would be a concern.

It's a shame, really.

rfult001

sheckler wrote: »

Give yourself a badass name like Magnus Steele or Max Fightmaster

One of my brother-in-laws trained with Max when he was in Marine Corps boot camp in California. The guy teaches martial arts, and is good at it, so he really is a bad ass.

Back to the OP, I have dealt with this in the past from the hiring perspective. It is difficult to get past our own hardwired stereotypes sometimes and I have found myself rolling my eyes at some of the Pakastani and Indian names I'd see when selecting candidates for the helpdesk. While we made our decisions based on qualifications and experience, I am sure a lot of people don't work the same way. If you think it is really an issue, do what others have suggested and use a shorter version of your name.

On that note one of my favorite hires was a guy named Phuc, which you can imagine went over well on the phones. By the time he left he was having people call him Andy instead.

darkerz

I have a very slavic name, and in my first week at my new job, I was renamed to "AJ".

To be fair, even I like it now.

NOC-Ninja

i have a foreign name and that didnt stop me from getting hired. This also doesnt affect me from performing my job.

Reality is when your just starting then you will have a hard time getting interviews due to HR filter. Unless you have enough experience to put in your resume or you know someone inside.

However, lots of immigrants that have CCIE or CCNP w/ yrs of experience doesnt have any problem getting interviews even if they have foreign names.

Chris:/*

Being in a foreign country it goes both ways. The Japanese give their best attempt at it but it is the attempt that counts for me. If you are worried about getting picked up because of your name I would not want to work there. I have not seen a lot of discrimination but I have seen it and the people who usually do it do not last long.

Anonymouse

Maybe you have a typo somewhere on there. But seriously I have a name that is more common in the Philippines compared to America and people always have a hard time pronouncing it even though it's a simple name. That hasn't stopped me from hearing from recruiters and such though.

bertieb

sheckler wrote: »

Give yourself a badass name like Magnus Steele or Max Fightmaster

I am so gonna use Max Fightmaster in my internal email signature today Quality!

Pratt2

There are studies floating around that show people with foreign or "black" sounding names are passed over for other people with the exact same resume.

MickQ

tech.me.now wrote: »

Maybe I should also include "U.S. citizen" and "Can enunciate English words" and have it in bold LOL

Considering the education I had to give to an American girl on the other end of my tech support call (me calling to log failed equipment) on how to pronounce my Anglicised monosyllabic and simple surname, the latter might be quite fitting.

Simplifying your name to Harry, or Jim would probably make life easier for you. America is the cauldron of different cultures, so the surname shouldn't be a problem. Then again, I'm from Europe and I'm well used to working with 30 different nationalities each day.

tech.me.now

Pratt2 wrote: »

There are studies floating around that show people with foreign or "black" sounding names are passed over for other people with the exact same resume.

^So, it's true there is awareness on this very topic. I even heard some say that America is one of the more discriminative country compared to Canada, Australia, and many European countries. I just ignore those comments because I don't want to be around negative people.

Anyway, thanks for all those helpful suggestions, everyone! I will take it this is just a small hurdle I need to jump over.

NOC-Ninja

tech.me.now wrote: »

^So, it's true there is awareness on this very topic. I even heard some say that America is one of the more discriminative country compared to Canada, Australia, and many European countries. I just ignore those comments because I don't want to be around negative people.

Anyway, thanks for all those helpful suggestions, everyone! I will take it this is just a small hurdle I need to jump over.

the movie is called "Freakonomics" (i think). its in NetFlix

PC509

It does happen, I'm sure. But, I've worked with some brilliant people with names that were difficult to pronounce.

Slowhand

sheckler wrote: »

Give yourself a badass name like Magnus Steele or Max Fightmaster

I'd go with John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming "Jack" Churchill, myself.

Zartanasaurus

Change your name to Snaphappy Fishsuit Mokiligon.

mcjon77

Pratt2 wrote: »

There are studies floating around that show people with foreign or "black" sounding names are passed over for other people with the exact same resume.

I remember one of those studies. It was a joint effort between MIT and the University of Chicago. They did the study in Chicago and Boston and sent similar resumes to employers. The major difference was that some had "very African American sounding name" and the other had a "very white sounding name". The result was that the white sounding name had a 50% higher callback rate.

Here is a link to the study: http://www.chicagobooth.edu/pdf/bertrand.pdf

On one hand, I am depressed that there is still so much discrimination, even if it is unconscious. On the other hand, I am eternally grateful that my mother didn't get creative, but instead gave me a nice "normal sounding" name that has been in my family for generations.:D

Anonymouse

Now that I think about it after reading some of the replies here I notice IT is a pretty nice melting pot of races and cultures where I live. Not sure about places like the deep south or midwest though. Between me and my friends/colleagues with the same qualifications as me I don't really see many differences with our races and rates of hire.

Forsaken_GA

I'm not going to lie, I hate having resumes with difficult names come across my desk, but I don't prejudge. One of the first things I do when I get to the interview is explain to them that I'm going to have a hard time with their name, and ask them for the proper pronunciation, or how they'd like to be addressed instead. It may take me a couple tries, but I can usually get it.

A thick accent, on the other hand, is a huge negative. If I have to ask you to repeat yourself constantly because I can't understand a word you're saying, you'd better be absolutely brilliant to overcome the communication barrier.

kayman79

Hi Guys. I created an account just to thank you all for being honest and objective about this topic as well as offering helpful and constructive suggestions. I've come across a couple of similar threads on other forums where people were dismissive and called the OP a complainer because it's not something that they can relate to. I came across this thread while googling this topic because it's something that I also struggle with with regards to seeking gainful employment. And these struggles started before the economy issues began.

I have an African first and last name and have had trouble finding work and I do believe that my name plays a large role in this. I was born and raised in the U.S and English is my only language. A few years ago a friend of mine wrote out my name and showed it to his boss who said something along the lines of, "I would probably laugh while trying to pronounce it then move on to the next resume."

Then there was a part time supermarket job I got hired for where changed my name to an English name on the application to see what would happen. Keep in mind that I had applied for the same job a few months before and never got called for an interview. But this time I attached a resume to the application with the made up English name on it. During the interview the manager told me that he might not have called had I not done that because he would have thought that I would struggle with English.

So for years I've struggled with the idea of legally changing my first name(I have too much pride to ever change the last name). My brother is the only one of our siblings who has an English first name and has had the most success finding work by far. I don't think that this is a coincidence.

Zartanasaurus

Just come up with a standard American nickname to go by derived from your real name, This was common among people I met in college who had names that were traditional from their native country.

I don't know if this is a good assumption or not, but if I came across a resume that was written well in English, but they had a foreign name, I'd assume they had a good command of spoken English as well.

tpatt100

I have an "American" name and speak "white" aka not an urban accent (sorry I hate those descriptions) lol. Anyways when I lived in the south I ran not into in your face racism but just bad stereotypes like one interview where the guy got a little too friendly and said he was surprised how I spoke proper English. I kind of sheepishly went uh thanks I guess.

My friends and I joke about stuff like that. I hate to say its not common but I have ran into HR people who tell me they have seen companies that require HR strip out names and anything in.the resume that may give hints or clues to gender, race and religion. That might be a good start.

networker050184

People would be foolish to think that there isn't discrimination going on out there. I have worked with many foreign people and to be honest the language barrier is a huge deal to me. It amazes me that some of these people were hired into a position where their main function is to communicate with English speaking people. I can see how someone would be put off by resumes with very "foreign" sounding names.