So a little birdie told me about a new MS at WGU

erpadmin

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

I can see why the locally well-regarded programs might be ranked first from the small and medium-sized businesses' perspectives simply because they may not be able to afford to help pay for relocation their new employees, which may turn them away. The HRs wouldn't be too thrill wasting time looking for ideal employees that can accept the jobs without relocation bonus. Also, those that came from the well-regarded B&M schools can be a little too demanding with salary negotiation.

You know, for my own personal situation, while I was out on the road, I started thinking that maybe my next online adventure should be more local. I do have NJIT in mind for an MBA, but I was thinking maybe I should find an online school that would look better for my own situation locally. SUNY has a nice affordable MBA package that is online, AACSB-accredited and has a Technology Management focus url=http://www.sunyit.edu/programs/graduate/mbatm/MBA in Technology Management[/url]. I can take 9 credits in a concentration that is all IT courses so I could get the 18 credits I'd need to adjunct somewhere.

Mind you, that's up in Utica/Rome. I've actually been up there during Woodstock '99 (man...that was some craziness...lmao). At least it won't be thousands of miles away though. The jury is still out on that though.

petedude

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

I do not want to turn this into a debate either. When petedude listed the order, I thought it would makes sense if well-regarded B&M schools are held in high regard more than locally well-regarded master's program.

Bear in mind:
(a) I didn't make up the list;
(b) I'm going by memory as I haven't been able to track down the doggoned article yet.

As erp explained, though, it does make sense. The inland counties in California provide another example: you could take courses online from the likes of UCLA (pricey, well-known B&M) or go to University of Redlands (which would cost you about half of UCLA). Many folks will pick UofR because of its close location, low cost, and well-regarded reputation.

powerfool

I have to concur with some others' sentiments and state that there really isn't much value here. If you are going to go after a graduate degree, you are going to want to get something that focuses on decision-making. That is why the MBA is so popular. There are other programs besides MBAs that let you further your technical ability in a field but also add in managerial functions. Someone that works with networks probably would benefit more from refining his/her general IT knowledge at a graduate level, like the Systems Development Life-Cycle, Business/Systems Analysis, and Project Management. There are master's degrees that are IT driven that offer this and expand into managerial focuses, like MS MIS/CIS/IT/IS, etc. Also, there are MBAs that allow a technical focus, whether that be IT, Finance, Marketing, or Economics.

I have struggled with my choice in graduate school major for several months, as the first two courses in my studies would allow me to go down one of two paths, a strictly technical path (MS in Cybersecurity) or a more managerial path (MS in Cybersecurity Policy). Certifications are really where it is at for improving technical skills and I can do those as I decide... while I plan on getting another graduate degree, not many would decide to do so, and this would be the one opportunity to align yourself with a managerial or a senior role.

Get a CCIE if you want the technical end of it.

To contrast that, however, there is another perspective. The IT programs from WGU have been certification focused. And since you just pay for each semester, I cannot see anything wrong with the idea that you just use this program to help you in moving towards your certification goals. There are many employers that offer tuition reimbursement but do not offer funds for technical training. This would allow folks to take advantage of the tuition reimbursement to get a move on their technical training. Further, it is WGU... it is inexpensive and self-paced. One could easily take one or two semesters and knock this out... not exactly much of a financial or time commitment.

If one were truly interested in a more managerial focused education, it would be very rational to go do another program after completing this.

cshkuru

I confirmed that a new masters will be offered, but the course list hasn't been finalized yet. This may be a good chance to contact your mentor and offer suggestions (i.e. CCNP vs CCNA etc).

themagicone

I don't know but certifications aren't helping me one dang bit right now. Masters probably won't ether. Not sure how you get a job in this economy.

erpadmin

themagicone wrote: »

I don't know but certifications aren't helping me one dang bit right now. Masters probably won't ether. Not sure how you get a job in this economy.

In your case, it may be best to just focus on Atlanta at this point.

I would start high and low searching for a job while looking towards Atlanta for February's commencement. Once you find a job anywhere then you just work your 2-3 years until you decide if a Masters will be right for you.

The key here is you need experience to help augment any value a Masters will provide. (And for counter arguments, certs).

themagicone

Starting my Tech/Cap journey tomorrow. Figure 2 weeks for Tech, 2 weeks to do the project then 2 weeks to button up the Capstone. Should be done mid to late September. I want to keep going though. Might work on CCNA Wireless/Voice or CCNP or even CCIE. Not sure yet.

hiddenknight821

themagicone wrote: »

I don't know but certifications aren't helping me one dang bit right now. Masters probably won't ether. Not sure how you get a job in this economy.

themagicone wrote: »

Starting my Tech/Cap journey tomorrow. Figure 2 weeks for Tech, 2 weeks to do the project then 2 weeks to button up the Capstone. Should be done mid to late September. I want to keep going though. Might work on CCNA Wireless/Voice or CCNP or even CCIE. Not sure yet.

So you changed your mind already and decided to go ahead for more certifications before start looking for more jobs. Whn are you gonna stick ith your original plan for good?

themagicone

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

So you changed your mind already and decided to go ahead for more certifications before start looking for more jobs. Whn are you gonna stick ith your original plan for good?

I look for work every day. Today alone I applied at 5 jobs. Might as well work on certs or even the MS while I look. No sense wasting the time I sit here. I have must of applied for 30 to 50 jobs in the last month alone. Not a single one will call me back and the ones they do as soon as they figure out I haven't worked since 2008 they hang up. Even had a few interviews, but they never call back ether.

hiddenknight821

themagicone wrote: »

I look for work every day. Today alone I applied at 5 jobs. Might as well work on certs or even the MS while I look. No sense wasting the time I sit here. I have must of applied for 30 to 50 jobs in the last month alone. Not a single one will call me back and the ones they do as soon as they figure out I haven't worked since 2008 they hang up. Even had a few interviews, but they never call back ether.

Ouch. Well, I am sure you have been on TE for quite some time now and you must have heard advices that you should consider relocations. I believe you know better what to do next. I can relate to you before I got this temporary internship gig I just got, which is about to end by the end of the month. We need to keep or chins up, but that certainly not gonna make you feel a lot better, because when people try to cheer me up, it's just so damn annoying with all that pities they put on me. So I will not try to say much here

petedude

I'd consider a Master's in software something if they offered it at WGU, with a few conditions. If they put in a lot of Java I'd want to come away knowing about stuff like CVS and creating JAR files.

I'd almost consider a database-related Master's with them, but they'd probably have to present the material in the context of an ERP environment for it to be useful to me.

instant000

themagicone wrote: »

I look for work every day. Today alone I applied at 5 jobs. Might as well work on certs or even the MS while I look. No sense wasting the time I sit here. I have must of applied for 30 to 50 jobs in the last month alone. Not a single one will call me back and the ones they do as soon as they figure out I haven't worked since 2008 they hang up. Even had a few interviews, but they never call back ether.

You can't just tell them that you got laid off during the recession, so you decided to go back to school and retool, and you're coming back strong into the work community with a degree?

I mean, it seems like a very plausible scenario to me, especially since you say you're graduating within a few months.

Excellent1

Just heard something interesting regarding this new program from my mentor: apparently this new track will be all performance assessments and no certifications at all. The details are still being worked out (including the final name of the degree track), but at this point, no certification will be part of this degree.

As far as I'm concerned, that pretty much eliminates it from consideration for me. Anyway, just passing it along.

hiddenknight821

I heard it's suppose to be ready by January 2012, and the program will be called Network Technology. Now that you mentioned it Excellent1, I don't think I will be interested. Folks were right. We're better off going for CCIE.

Rappeller

instant000 wrote: »

You can't just tell them that you got laid off during the recession, so you decided to go back to school and retool, and you're coming back strong into the work community with a degree?

I mean, it seems like a very plausible scenario to me, especially since you say you're graduating within a few months.

Unfortunately nowadays that scenario still doesn't look good to some HR departments. I have been doing some research as I am looking to change jobs to be closer to my family. Thankfully I am employed as it is taking a long time to find something. But everything I have found out says that if you are unemployed more than 6 months then it is 85% harder to get a job. Some departments would rather hire someone from fast food prior to an unemployed person. Which is a crock o *** if you ask me.

Chris:/*

It is a perception thing. It is looked at if you cannot find a job in your career field in the area then you should at least be willing to look for any job to make ends meet or move to a different area. Some HR departments look at those who sit on unemployment as lazy or unwilling to compromise or the worker may have unrealistic expectations.

It is as my wife and I talked about if something happens, no matter what there is always Mc jobs and I can work up to three of them at a time. There area a lot of people out there who are on unemployment who expect the jobs to come to them at the salary they want it is just not realistic at this time and HR departments reflect that.

themagicone

Chris:/* wrote: »

It is a perception thing. It is looked at if you cannot find a job in your career field in the area then you should at least be willing to look for any job to make ends meet or move to a different area. Some HR departments look at those who sit on unemployment as lazy or unwilling to compromise or the worker may have unrealistic expectations.

It is as my wife and I talked about if something happens, no matter what there is always Mc jobs and I can work up to three of them at a time. There area a lot of people out there who are on unemployment who expect the jobs to come to them at the salary they want it is just not realistic at this time and HR departments reflect that.

Mc jobs wouldn't work for some. I have a bad back and standing for 6+ hours would mean I would be spending hours in pain after. Plus to make $8/hour isn't worth it to me. My rent and food is about $1000/month so even working full time at $8 isn't going to cover expenses. Just going to make me more depressed that I worked all that and still couldn't pay rent.

Chris:/*

After living in Japan I have learned how to cut unnecessary things in life like the Japanese do.

You see 90 year old people who go and work in the fields for 12+ hours a day with many ailments, it is a matter of doing what you have to. As Americans we have got used to an easy life with the Perkins Government taking care of us.

Anyway we are going down a rabbit hole here.

powerfool

I talked this over with a couple of colleagues that I persuaded into doing the WGU MS:ISA (even though I abandoned them and went to UMUC). Based on how the MS:ISA is laid out, I would imagine the MS in Networking with include the CCNP and be geared to prepare folks for a CCIE. The rationale is that the MS:ISA is geared to prepare folks for the CISSP, but it doesn't actually include it.

I always thought that it was odd, too, that they don't give any credit on the MS:ISA to the CISSP even though that is what they are preparing students for... but for one of the BS degrees, they knock off 1/3 of your CUs for the CISSP.

jahsoul

jmasterj206 wrote: »

I just don't know how they can do CCNP if they are including Microsoft certs as well. I agree they should do CCNP, don't get me wrong. If they decide to not do the Microsoft certs I could see the CCNP. Say they did the MCITP:SA you would be looking at the following:
70-640
70-642
70-646
CCENT
CCNA
ROUTE
SWITCH
TSHOOT

That would be a lot to take on if they keep it around 36 credits. Of course everything is just speculation at this point. WGU doesn't even know at this point what they are going to do. The most I can get out of them is that it is going to be a mix or MS and Cisco certs.

If you noticed, classes count for way less in the Master curriculum. I suggested to my mentor that CCNA is a prerequisite and they offer the CCNP, MCITP:SA, and Linux+ and I gave her my logic behind it.

jmasterj206

jahsoul wrote: »

If you noticed, classes count for way less in the Master curriculum. I suggested to my mentor that CCNA is a prerequisite and they offer the CCNP, MCITP:SA, and Linux+ and I gave her my logic behind it.

I realize the credit differences. That would be good ciriculum that you have proposed. I don't think they could get away with a prerequisite though. It is all speculation anyway, so it isn't worth worrying about anyway until they release it and then we can dissect it 25 ways.

petedude

Excellent1 wrote: »

Just heard something interesting regarding this new program from my mentor: apparently this new track will be all performance assessments and no certifications at all.
. . .
As far as I'm concerned, that pretty much eliminates it from consideration for me. Anyway, just passing it along.

It's been a nice plus of most WGU IT programs that you can get the certs, but let's not forget WGU is primarily about competencies. They may be finding that for some topics learning retention will be better through performance assessment preparation. For WGU to be taken more seriously on an academic basis, they might have to lean more toward performance assessments in new programs.

Excellent1

petedude wrote: »

It's been a nice plus of most WGU IT programs that you can get the certs, but let's not forget WGU is primarily about competencies. They may be finding that for some topics learning retention will be better through performance assessment preparation. For WGU to be taken more seriously on an academic basis, they might have to lean more toward performance assessments in new programs.

Agreed, certifications are not part of your typical graduate level programs. That said, however, if they model their programs after the more widely recognized (and respected) B&M schools, I don't think the perception is going to suddenly change that puts them on a level with one another. One of the advantages WGU has over other schools is the certifications they provide as part of their degree programs. This is only my opinion, of course, but I think they would be better served by including a professional level certification as part of the degree program.

It's a moot point, however. The program is established and it is what it is. Like many, I plan on attending a more conventional graduate school, but it would be disingenuous to say I wasn't weighing the possibility of considering this new program.

jmasterj206

Hmmm, that is interesting about the no certifications. My mentor said MS and Cisco certs. I guess they must have changed their minds. I plan to go to a traditional school for my master's, but may have considered it if there were certs involved. There is no way I could stand to deal with Taskstream that much.

hiddenknight821

Similar to the traditional schools, if the program offers multiple hand-on lab reports or experiments, which will be used as performance assessments, then I can see this program still stand a chance to become successful.

themagicone

So here is the latest that I know of. There will be NO certification based classes. The 3 classes that will carry over from the MS ISA degree are Cyber law, Organizational Management and Disaster Planning/recovery. It is planning on being launched on January 1st.

petedude

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

Similar to the traditional schools, if the program offers multiple hand-on lab reports or experiments, which will be used as performance assessments, then I can see this program still stand a chance to become successful.

Most schools, rather than offering a program to directly prepare you for certs, will put you in theory- and practical studies-heavy classes with the intent of achieving the same result. This is especially true of project management programs, where they'll essentially prepare you for a PMP but not give you study guides, prep materials, etc.

It's possible that WGU is looking at going that direction with this new master's. But again, it's all speculation until we see it hit.

demonfurbie

it depends on how they do it because if its like the performance objectives on the bs degree id get it on 6mths just to have a masters degree

petedude

Chris:/* wrote: »

It is a perception thing. It is looked at if you cannot find a job in your career field in the area then you should at least be willing to look for any job to make ends meet or move to a different area. Some HR departments look at those who sit on unemployment as lazy or unwilling to compromise or the worker may have unrealistic expectations.

It's also one of those weird things that have changed alongside the culture, like the notion it's no longer cool in some places to turn up in a suit to drop off your resume. It's also a viewpoint that long-term unemployed folks may have let their skills lapse or would be unable to get into the routine of a regular schedule again.

The current perspective is that if nothing else, you should at least volunteer. That doesn't mean you can't carry a full-time college load, it just means you'll have to juggle it with everything else-- job hunting and volunteering plus whatever else you have going on. But then, the scheduing is no worse than what fully-employed folks do studying on their spare time.

instant000

themagicone wrote: »

So here is the latest that I know of. There will be NO certification based classes. The 3 classes that will carry over from the MS ISA degree are Cyber law, Organizational Management and Disaster Planning/recovery. It is planning on being launched on January 1st.

Hrm. If I can't get out of Cyberlaw, what is the point? LOL.

If the course is going to have all performance assessments, I'll be better off where I am. The performance assessments are murder for me. I even have a system set up, LOL, and I still don't do the papers fast enough:

1 - Read Rubric before starting the syllabus
2 - Glance over syllabus to get a reading schedule
3 - Do reading assignments
4 - While reading texts, develop outline/references for paper (since I'll have the rubric/assignments besides me while reading)
5 - Complete outline/reference compilation versus rubric
6 - Write paper

Even with that plan, I still don't do the papers fast enough . Just so you know, my slowest step is #6.