Night Shift...Weekends... how do you feel about it?

JohnnyBiggles

Mike-Mike wrote: »

With your degree and cert list I found it odd you would be working outside of IT. I took a massive pay cut to get into IT at the helpdesk level, but I feel it will pay off at some point.

Well, I didn't get the BBA until well after my run doing IT work, figuring i'd get it fairly quickly and i'd be able to return in a better position to get better pay and a more challenging role, not expecting the global economy to tank repeatedly. I only had my AAS when I got hired. Now, after all the additional education i've gotten since leaving working in IT, it's harder than ever to get back in, with the possibility of resorting to help desk or working graveyard shift hours for low pay (more than likely)... plus as you get older, life happens, everyday bills start to add up along with inflation.

Danny boy

Turgon wrote: »

Sounds like bad culture to me and you cant change that. You have agreed to do the on call weekend work so you either continue to do it or approach your line manager and explain you need to do a U turn. You can do that on the grounds that the people you are dealing with are unreasonable. You can do that on the grounds that as you put it, working 11 days out of 12 isn't realistic for you on a personal level. In fact you can actually do it for both reasons.

In terms of complaints from end users you would do well to take the advice of referring anyone being really difficult to your line manager. I should caution you that you must have an upfront conversation about doing this with him first before you start resorting to this when the need arises. Otherwise the complaints from unreasonable people will become a regular occurance and your boss will likely assume you are simply being difficult and want to have 'a chat with you'. If people are unreasonable stay polite and ask them to escalate to your line manager. If people are obnoxious on the phone refer to the line manager and hang up.

When people insist this or that, they cannot insist that *you* do this or that. It is an expectation that a customer has on the *company* you work for and it may be outside whatever SLA they have signed up to. It is a matter for the company to resolve with the client so point the customer fairly and squarely at your boss and have them take the matter up with him. It's his job to deal with all that.

As I say, this could be bad culture so it may be time to look for another job. I had one such experience about 8 years ago and while I didn't have people shouting at me like you have and demanding 24/7, the company I worked for simply had too many problems to solve, inept management structures, and no prospect of doing anything different going forwards, so it was a mess. After hammering myself for 3 months working long hours trying to hold the shambles together I decided it was pointless. So I left and worked as a contract network designer on much better money for the largest ISP in the country for 4.5 years. My previous employer folded inside 18 months.

Postscript. If you dont speak to your boss expect every weekend to be like this for as long as you work for this company.

I definitely agree. I do want to advance my IT career but at the same time I want to have a personal life as well. I've have spoken to my boss about this, who has at least taken on board what I said and my general concerns about the company/ job. In fact they are going to pursue disciplinary proceedings against the other staff as the MD has become aware of it and is unhappy about it, personally I would rather it was done informally.

On the other hand, when I mentioned the issue of them wanting support at 6AM at the weekends he mentioned that if the client paid for it then we could accomodate it, in return we would get a higher rate than normal pay rate per hour between 6-9AM... Personally I regard that as insulting! I did point out to him that getting up at 5:30 or whatever in the mornings was earlier than I get up in the week for work, which is a joke.

I spoke to my work colleague about this afterwards and he was dead set against it, so we can hopefully provide a united front in case anything happens of it. At the same time I'm going to update my CV in case the worse comes to the worse.

Turgon

Danny boy wrote: »

On the other hand, when I mentioned the issue of them wanting support at 6AM at the weekends he mentioned that if the client paid for it then we could accomodate it, in return we would get a higher rate than normal pay rate per hour between 6-9AM... Personally I regard that as insulting! I did point out to him that getting up at 5:30 or whatever in the mornings was earlier than I get up in the week for work, which is a joke.

If the client has paid upfront for this sort of cover then the company has an obligation to provide it. It's then a question of resourcing. Personally I see some need for out of hours support here and it might be best that the company provides either a NOC or some on call cover. But on no account should that be available by the customer calling you the sleeping engineer direct. They should go through someone else, a call centre and have a ticket raised. The service manager should be able to decide if the engineer on call needs a wake up call to deal with it immediately or if it can wait until 9AM at least (I think at the weekend thats not unreasonable). In the absence of a service manager a ticket system or voice mail should be available for the clients to raise calls for rescue and that can be checked by an operator during the night. They should have clear guidelines to decide if the engineer needs to be woken up at 5AM to deal with it. Another alternative is to rotate the weekends you work with a colleague, or for weekend work to be scheduled giving time off during the week. You cant work 24 hours, so see if there is a night shift schedule that could cover those hours.

If none of these things work for you, (they might not even be practical for your company if its too poorly resourced), then you will have to be clear what hours you are prepared to work. If you are putting it in 9 - 5 during the week and pitching in on evenings during the week when there is an emergency then I dont think asking for a weekend to refuel is unreasonable on your part.

I think it's good you and your colleague are on the same page. Why not discuss the options together and present some to your boss that are workable. He may like the initiative you have shown.

Can I just add that if you do provide out of hours cover effectively, it can in the long run payoff on many, many levels. You have less pressure running into the 9 - 5 hours. Late night hours give you lots of time to resolve problems before the offices fill up. Cover during these hours goes down well with customers. Over time, the night shifts are either terribly eventful (and over time less so) or rather quiet, giving the oncall people time to do other things.

instant000

I feel that I would prefer to work nights and weekends, as I could spend more time studying at the office, instead of getting in my hours after a full days work, which can be difficult sometimes.

I actually requested to be assigned to night shift at my current job, but they haven't moved me there yet. I'm hoping that whenever there's a shift update, I can switch to nights from someone who wants to work days. Most people are all for working days or not working weekends, and I can actually care less.

Maybe once my Masters is completed, I may be more mindful for working day shift, but by that time, I'll probably be looking for something else.

elTorito

Turgon wrote: »

Can I just add that if you do provide out of hours cover effectively, it can in the long run payoff on many, many levels. You have less pressure running into the 9 - 5 hours. Late night hours give you lots of time to resolve problems before the offices fill up. Cover during these hours goes down well with customers. Over time, the night shifts are either terribly eventful (and over time less so) or rather quiet, giving the oncall people time to do other things.

Definitely agree. I also prefer working out-of-office hours sometimes. Having the opportunity to deal with issues without getting constantly interrupted by users, colleagues and bosses is a real blessing. During regular hours, there are a lot of issues that you simply cannot devote enough attention to, since you'll be too busy firefighting.

drew726

I work four 10 hr night shifts as well from 11pm - 9am. Here's what a do:

The night I have to start work, I put on my white noise machine and go to sleep from 6pm or 7pm-10pm. After I come home from work, I sleep from 10-1. It's not really much sleep but on day after my last night shift is over, I sleep from 10pm - 7/8 AM. This usually puts me back on a normal sleep schedule ready for the weekend.

Although it is a 3 day weekend, you actually have 4 "days" to do things. I start working Sunday nights but on that Sunday I can go out until 7pm, as long as I get my nap before work. On the Thurs morning I get off work and I take my 3 hour nap, I have from 1pm till as late as I want to go out. Although you might be a bit sleepy to go to a bar that night, you just have to endure it to switch back to your regular sleep schedule. So really, like I said, I really get 4 days to go out and its pretty awesome. Not everyone can handle a night shift. I'm the type of guy who can sleep any time I jump in a bed and a white noise machine REALLY HELPS. I also bring a jump rope to work on downtime because cardio also keeps me awake.

WiseWun

Been doing the night shift for the past 4 months and I gotta tell you, I have put on a few pounds which I'm not really happy about but going to the gym should help. Night shift does have it's positive from a career developing perspective, I have been studying and doing research during downtime. Study shows working nights is bad for your health.

"For years, scientists have known that people who work night shifts — about 15 million people in the United States — are unusually prone to heart disease, bone fractures, cancer, diabetes and obesity."

Night Shift Makes Metabolism Go Haywire | Wired Science | Wired.com

YuckTheFankees

I know this is an old thread but I have an interview for a NOC position this week and it would be a night shift. I haven't decided if I would take the job if they offered it. Having my girlfriend accept it will be the hardest part.

WiseWun

YuckTheFankees wrote: »

I know this is an old thread but I have an interview for a NOC position this week and it would be a night shift. I haven't decided if I would take the job if they offered it. Having my girlfriend accept it will be the hardest part.

Yup, I did a search rather than create a new thread. My wife doesn't like the night shift either but what can you do?

YuckTheFankees

WiseWun wrote: »

Yup, I did a search rather than create a new thread. My wife doesn't like the night shift either but what can you do?

I know right. This job will be for about 50-60% more money, so if I'm offered the job...it would be hard to turn down.

kurosaki00

Extended shifts, Night shifts, Weekend Work...
Sounds like IT alright. If you dont like these, maybe another career?

Its not like we like it, but its just how it is. Production changes, new implementations, server cracking queries etc etc
And much more, all needs to be done OFF working hours.

Roguetadhg

There is a limit, even though IT persons generally accept "You'll be working odd hours".

I work 9:30 hours a day, 5 days. I'll pickup the phone for my boss else wise, any time. However, I will usually be in the office working on documenting things, trying to map things out, working on certifications, doing little odds and ends that need to be done to make sure the building is working. Making sure the power generator is working, too, is part of my job. :P

One thing I've learned, if to bring up the issue with your boss. I take what people say to me at "Okay" value, bring it up with my boss. In the situtation where the site managers yell. I just call my boss, say "Sir, I have the building managers on the phone."

I've stated to managers "If you have an issue with my performance, talk to my boss." Of if they come in yelling, looking for a fight, after the first indication of an "issue", I call my boss, and put him on the phone to listen in. Works wonders.

My point is that take it, accept the fight you can't fight and put it to your boss to fight. Let him deal with you, not the building managers. Are you part of the building manager's budget, or you bosses?

veritas_libertas

Devilry wrote: »

I think it would be extremely difficult with a family, but for a single guy: probably a decent gig.

Yeah, if I had to I would, but I would receive an ear-full from my wife if I decided to just take an after hours position. I personally don't like working at night.

the_Grinch

I'm working a swing shift now (11-8 Monday to Thursday, 8 to 5 Friday) and it's pretty decent. Thing about nights is really just getting use to it and finding what works for you.

zenhound

Starting a job on night shift doesn't mean you will always be on it. I worked at a NOC where people got promoted out pretty regularly, so you had frequent opportunities to switch shifts. Unfortunately they also gave a 20% shift differential so for me it was really difficult to think about giving that up.

techdudehere

I am not sure I would do night shift if it meant just pushing AV and applying updates. Sure that sounds great but in a few years when all you can say you've done are updates and software deployments, not good. If it were more advanced, I'd at least consider it. The weekend would be tougher for me to handle. The reason is I like to have two consecutive days off, but I'd consider it assuming I could choose my weekday off. I would not agree to be on call in exchange for actual time worked. You would need to go to great lengths to ensure you were able to respond to client needs. If I were going to do that, I'd consider myself on the clock the entire time. I would let someone else have that role. I am not sure why you chose to put yourself in this position. At the very least you could have asked for a rotating shift split between several engineers. I would recommend telling your boss this is not going to work out.

Kai123

Working in a NOC sounds like a dream. One place near me seems to have a permanent job placement for weekend NOC work. I have send CV's in the past with various cover letters. I might try again after being inspired by this thread.

Kai.

snokerpoker

NOC was my 2nd IT job. When I was single I didn't mind working swing shift or nights. Once I met my wife, it made it hard to spend any time with her especially since she worked a 9 to 5 job. I got lucky though. Soon after we met, my schedule changed to 12 hour shifts 3 days a week. My shift was 7 AM to 7 PM so I was still able to go out for a late dinner or movie and had 4 days off a week. Right now I work M-F 8 AM to 5PM. I have a couple of clients I do most of my work for so if they have issues on weekends I get the calls even though I am not on call.

cvuong1984

I've worked at 2 separate NOCs, and multiple shifts. Here's my take on the shifts.

1st Shift: I absolutely hates, too many managers and directors walking around micro managing the crap outta you. Also traffic.

2nd: Second shift is by far the best, you dodge traffic both in the morning and at night. Usually it's 3pm -12am or fairly similar.
2nd shift however, is probably the busiest IMO, due to maintenance.

3rd Shift: Sucks, but it's good if you are new into the field, you learn in a slower environment. Slower environment also gives you time to do self study, you have to take advantage of this.

Also shift preference in most NOCs goes by seniority, so eventually you would get a shift you want.

LinuxRacr

I remember my first two IT jobs were nights and weekends, IN MY EARLY TWENTIES! I remember hearing all my friends talk about what they were going to do at night, or on the weekend. One thing I had to do sometimes was go out BEFORE work...lol..

Aside from that, nights and weekends were great because I got paid more, and it kept me out of trouble... It also gave me the time during the down-times (when stuff wasn't broken) for self-development. Traffic was really never a problem either...

darkerz

I worked nights this last 8 months, and let me tell you.. Girlfriend, friends, family and my body all did not like it. What I got out of it was severe amount of exposure and study time in Healthcare IT, I took it damn seriously and didn't dick around on my down time. In the end, it propelled me to a Network Engineering position before I even hit 21 at an MSP/ISP.

Love those night shifts guys, that time is so so so so so useful if you utilize it correctly.