so many youngers do well in i.t

slushi

If the military is something you plan on doing, join the Army National Guard and look into the federal technician program. I've got friends that landed Guard technician jobs after doing their Advanced Individual Training (after Basic) as a 25 Series MOS. Depends on your state, ask your unit to help with temporary orders/temporary hire. You're unit will probably hook you up so you can get the experience. My friends are roughly 20-22 years old making around 60K a year IT Customer Support. I'm 22 making close to 70k in an Electronics field (IT on the drill side).

Everyone

slushi wrote: »

If the military is something you plan on doing, join the Army National Guard and look into the federal technician program. I've got friends that landed Guard technician jobs after doing their Advanced Individual Training (after Basic) as a 25 Series MOS. Depends on your state, ask your unit to help with temporary orders/temporary hire. You're unit will probably hook you up so you can get the experience. My friends are roughly 20-22 years old making around 60K a year IT Customer Support. I'm 22 making close to 70k in an Electronics field (IT on the drill side).

*cough* Air National Guard *cough*

Full Time Guard technician positions are hard to come by. A lot of full time guard IT jobs are GS9 or higher, which is good for starting pay, but these slots are very limited. You'll be stuck at that pay grade for a long time, as you usually have to wait for someone to either die or retire before you can move up.

slushi

Haha! You aren't lying! And I've contemplated about joining the Air Guard. For me, I got lucky - right place, right time. Went from temporary hire for 6 months then slid into a full-time position.

EDIT: Grammar errors galore. It's too early in the morning.

vCole

slushi wrote: »

If the military is something you plan on doing, join the Army National Guard and look into the federal technician program. I've got friends that landed Guard technician jobs after doing their Advanced Individual Training (after Basic) as a 25 Series MOS. Depends on your state, ask your unit to help with temporary orders/temporary hire. You're unit will probably hook you up so you can get the experience. My friends are roughly 20-22 years old making around 60K a year IT Customer Support. I'm 22 making close to 70k in an Electronics field (IT on the drill side).

Sadly, I wish this was an option for me! However, guess it's back to the books for me then.

slushi

vCole wrote: »

I really think it has a lot to do with three things: Motivation, Education and Location...

I totally agree with you.

"If you didn't get what you wanted, you didn't want it bad enough."

Heero

Plantwiz wrote: »

Good goal! (regarding the wages)

Keep in mind:

For someone to pay you $100K per year (not counting taxes, benefits, etc..)
You need to earn or save the company more than this amount with the work you do.

So to earn $1923 per week on a 40 hour week (and we'll skip the banter on whether or not the job is actually 40 hours or closer to 60 per week), but on a 40 hour week, you need to save or generate at least $48 per hour (and with benefits and such it will be more like $65-80 per hour)

Do you (or anyone dreaming of the big dollars) do enough in your day each hour to justify the salary or hourly wage which you are paid at $100K?

Merely something to consider...

Add in benefits, cost of equipment, space, and supplies necessary for you to do your job. You cost a company a good amount more than what you make.

MrAgent

I firmly believe salaries depend on experience. I broke the 100k mark before I was 30. I did not have any certs and I didnt have a degree (was working on an AS at the time). What I did have was experience, both in the military and out.

Now I have a few certs, a couple of degrees, and a ton of experience. I am 34, and make well over 100k now.

Maybe the DC area has something to do with it, but I think it was my motivation and determination that brought me to where I am now.

gunbunnysoulja

qwertyiop wrote: »

I guess a huge part of it has to do with luck and being at the right place at the right time.

I definitely agree being in the right place at the right time helps. Since I turned down a GS12 position (75k), the new kid who worked with me at 24 got offered the job.

Claymoore

Plantwiz wrote: »

Good goal! (regarding the wages)

Keep in mind:

For someone to pay you $100K per year (not counting taxes, benefits, etc..)
You need to earn or save the company more than this amount with the work you do.

So to earn $1923 per week on a 40 hour week (and we'll skip the banter on whether or not the job is actually 40 hours or closer to 60 per week), but on a 40 hour week, you need to save or generate at least $48 per hour (and with benefits and such it will be more like $65-80 per hour)

Do you (or anyone dreaming of the big dollars) do enough in your day each hour to justify the salary or hourly wage which you are paid at $100K?

Merely something to consider...

For most of us to top the $100k barrier we had to move from internal IT where you are a cost center to consulting or other external IT where you are a profit center. With that extra money comes extra responsibility and expectations. Travel, long hours, extra work on pre-sales - nobody will just give it to you, you have to earn it.

lsud00d

Claymoore wrote: »

For most of us to top the $100k barrier we had to move from internal IT where you are a cost center to consulting or other external IT where you are a profit center. With that extra money comes extra responsibility and expectations. Travel, long hours, extra work on pre-sales - nobody will just give it to you, you have to earn it.

Is this what I need to do to hit 6 figures?

I'm currently on a contract supporting IT Infrastructure for a state entity...time to move to consulting?

vCole

lsud00d wrote: »

Is this what I need to do to hit 6 figures?

I'm currently on a contract supporting IT Infrastructure for a state entity...time to move to consulting?

tbh - working for the state has great benefits but pay is severely lacking (as well as the technology). You can hit $100k working for enterprise level companies and external IT consulting (not SMB-centric, however).

Xcluziv

Plantwiz wrote: »

Good goal! (regarding the wages)

Keep in mind:

For someone to pay you $100K per year (not counting taxes, benefits, etc..)
You need to earn or save the company more than this amount with the work you do.

So to earn $1923 per week on a 40 hour week (and we'll skip the banter on whether or not the job is actually 40 hours or closer to 60 per week), but on a 40 hour week, you need to save or generate at least $48 per hour (and with benefits and such it will be more like $65-80 per hour)

Do you (or anyone dreaming of the big dollars) do enough in your day each hour to justify the salary or hourly wage which you are paid at $100K?

Merely something to consider...

That's a great post.

IMO, to analyze your statement, I would say that if you were taken out of the equation from your company, what impact would it have as a whole for the company? That's how you can see how effective you are at your company. As I get involved in more projects and asked to be in over certain aspects of the IT infrastructure I know that this is something that roots me down to the company and am treated more as an asset to the company rather than a liability.

MAC_Addy

swild wrote: »

COL in Arkansas is close to the lowest in the nation. Unfortunately, you have to live in Arkansas.

Arkansas isn't that bad. I'm over in north west AR and it's beautiful here. The pay isn't bad for where I live, too.

The COL in my town, according to the local newspaper is now the cheapest place to live in the US.

swild

Fort Smith has been the cheapest COL in the US for the past several years. Not sure if that's where you are or not.

Yeah up in the Rogers area is absolutely beautiful. I'm down in the Little Rock. at least it's not the Delta.

skinsFan202

so much emphasis placed on how much one is making. It's about how much are you keeping

SteveLord

vCole wrote: »

tbh - working for the state has great benefits but pay is severely lacking (as well as the technology). You can hit $100k working for enterprise level companies and external IT consulting (not SMB-centric, however).

Our top/most experienced IT earners in the state make $146k...more than the governor (whose is $130k.) Then a good chunk below them make $70k-$95k. I am approaching $50k with only 5 years under my belt. Considering my stellar benefits, I make much more than comparable private sector jobs around here of equal experience/duties/education. It's laughable.

Technology will vary because it depends where you work, if you use general funds or not and if what your state's rules are on spending.

nel

i started on under £1 per hour....thats not even 2 US dollars man!

Comapanies arent stupid, they know your young, you need the experience etc so are always going to underpay you when you start, or at least in 90% of the cases ive seen. Even when you get to a particular level theres always a sense of been underpaid in some respects.

cablegod

It all comes down to determination. Location isn't a problem because you can change that. It all boils down to determination. I got into IT 13 years ago, making $30k. Now, I'm 32 and over $130k. How? Determination, HARD work, and sacrifice. I didn't spend my 20's partying and chasing women like many of my counterparts did. I spent those nights working in my own lab and studying. Anyone can do it if they are determined enough.

VAHokie56

cablegod wrote: »

It all comes down to determination. Location isn't a problem because you can change that. It all boils down to determination. I got into IT 13 years ago, making $30k. Now, I'm 32 and over $130k. How? Determination, HARD work, and sacrifice. I didn't spend my 20's partying and chasing women like many of my counterparts did. I spent those nights working in my own lab and studying. Anyone can do it if they are determined enough.

Determination is key sir, but I would like to throw in I am 28 and and close to the six figures and I spent a great deal of the last 8 years in bars and chasing women! there is always time for life dude, helps you remember why you are doing all this!

vCole

SteveLord wrote: »

Our top/most experienced IT earners in the state make $146k...more than the governor (whose is $130k.) Then a good chunk below them make $70k-$95k. I am approaching $50k with only 5 years under my belt. Considering my stellar benefits, I make much more than comparable private sector jobs around here of equal experience/duties/education. It's laughable.

Technology will vary because it depends where you work, if you use general funds or not and if what your state's rules are on spending.

Well, Rhode Island being as broke as it is has awful technology.

Turgon

Plantwiz wrote: »

Good goal! (regarding the wages)

Keep in mind:

For someone to pay you $100K per year (not counting taxes, benefits, etc..)
You need to earn or save the company more than this amount with the work you do.

So to earn $1923 per week on a 40 hour week (and we'll skip the banter on whether or not the job is actually 40 hours or closer to 60 per week), but on a 40 hour week, you need to save or generate at least $48 per hour (and with benefits and such it will be more like $65-80 per hour)

Do you (or anyone dreaming of the big dollars) do enough in your day each hour to justify the salary or hourly wage which you are paid at $100K?

Merely something to consider...

Is that how it works in the states? Not everyone earning 100K+ in IT can equate that wage to the company bottom line.

swild

Turgon wrote: »

Is that how it works in the states? Not everyone earning 100K+ in IT can equate that wage to the company bottom line.

True story. Our salesmen make 6-10% commission and most of them take home 70k, some up to 120k. While there is no easily measureable way to say how much money I am saving the company by keeping everything running.

Plantwiz

Turgon wrote: »

Is that how it works in the states? Not everyone earning 100K+ in IT can equate that wage to the company bottom line.

Why not?

If an IT person is supporting several hundred or several thousand users and a couple locations, sure they can.

It "Depends" though on many factors. One being the philosophy of the company. If the business is all about their web presence and no one works if the Intranet and/or Extranet is down, IT's role in this situation is certainly critical to permit online access 24/7 as well as day time office hours (say for shipping/accounting/marketing etc...)

Now, if an IT person's role is to support 20 office professional (or say Attorney's) and they (the Attorney's) bring in several million dollars but because so much is automated within the internal workings of the organization that they don't need 10 secretarial people, but can manage with 5...your role as an IT person now saves them from paying 4 additional salaries.

I need to run, so I am cutting this response short, but I think you can follow where this is going.

Turgon

Plantwiz wrote: »

Why not?

If an IT person is supporting several hundred or several thousand users and a couple locations, sure they can.

It "Depends" though on many factors. One being the philosophy of the company. If the business is all about their web presence and no one works if the Intranet and/or Extranet is down, IT's role in this situation is certainly critical to permit online access 24/7 as well as day time office hours (say for shipping/accounting/marketing etc...)

Now, if an IT person's role is to support 20 office professional (or say Attorney's) and they (the Attorney's) bring in several million dollars but because so much is automated within the internal workings of the organization that they don't need 10 secretarial people, but can manage with 5...your role as an IT person now saves them from paying 4 additional salaries.

I need to run, so I am cutting this response short, but I think you can follow where this is going.

I would say a significant proportion of relatively high earners I have been around over the years do not bring this value.

Everyone

Turgon wrote: »

I would say a significant proportion of relatively high earners I have been around over the years do not bring this value.

Do they somehow create the illusion of bringing that value? You don't have to actually bring it, as long as you can make people think you are, that can be all it takes. I wouldn't recommend doing that, but there are people out there who do it and get away with it.

Plantwiz

Turgon wrote: »

I would say a significant proportion of relatively high earners I have been around over the years do not bring this value.

Sure, I've seen posers.

I've also seen them lose their jobs in the past couple years with all the downsizing too.

The companies who had their finger on the pulse of their organizational bottom line and understood the value of each position did not experience this 'downsizing' problem that plagued many, many companies.

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but to preserve oneself (when one choses to work for another party rather than be self-employed) should know how much they cost the company to do what they do. Honestly consider all the support staff you use, the resources, supplies, training, etc... in addition to wages, taxes, benefits and reflect for a moment do you do enough to allow the company to pay you the wages they pay?

When I see folks getting ticked off about 'only' earning $35K, well, where are you located, and what type of business is employing you? There are a number of factors to figure a fair wage for staff. Yet, some organizations will opt for the wet-finger technique. The ones who didn't feel the pinch during the past couple years...use real data, and calculate the payroll accordingly.

Some companies can and do opt to 'share-the-wealth' particularly among their bigger executives or friends (it is their perogative). Others may try to build capital into their organization to promote growth/expansion in 5 years and would rather not put all the extra money into wages in case sales stagnate. If they are more conservative with wages, when sales slump a little, they don't immediately need to destroy the team...they have given themselves a little breathing room.

Are there jerks out there? Yep.

Are there good people out there? Yep.


I think my comment started with a reminder that to earn $100K (a realistic and reasonable goal) one should also calculate what they need to do during the day/week to ensure their organizatino CAN pay them what they want. Likewise, if the best sales guy is only making $65K, there is little likelihood the IT guy will draw $35K more than the sales guy (of course, this does depend on the business).

YMMV

Turgon

Plantwiz wrote: »

Sure, I've seen posers.

I've also seen them lose their jobs in the past couple years with all the downsizing too.

The companies who had their finger on the pulse of their organizational bottom line and understood the value of each position did not experience this 'downsizing' problem that plagued many, many companies.

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but to preserve oneself (when one choses to work for another party rather than be self-employed) should know how much they cost the company to do what they do. Honestly consider all the support staff you use, the resources, supplies, training, etc... in addition to wages, taxes, benefits and reflect for a moment do you do enough to allow the company to pay you the wages they pay?

When I see folks getting ticked off about 'only' earning $35K, well, where are you located, and what type of business is employing you? There are a number of factors to figure a fair wage for staff. Yet, some organizations will opt for the wet-finger technique. The ones who didn't feel the pinch during the past couple years...use real data, and calculate the payroll accordingly.

Some companies can and do opt to 'share-the-wealth' particularly among their bigger executives or friends (it is their perogative). Others may try to build capital into their organization to promote growth/expansion in 5 years and would rather not put all the extra money into wages in case sales stagnate. If they are more conservative with wages, when sales slump a little, they don't immediately need to destroy the team...they have given themselves a little breathing room.

Are there jerks out there? Yep.

Are there good people out there? Yep.


I think my comment started with a reminder that to earn $100K (a realistic and reasonable goal) one should also calculate what they need to do during the day/week to ensure their organizatino CAN pay them what they want. Likewise, if the best sales guy is only making $65K, there is little likelihood the IT guy will draw $35K more than the sales guy (of course, this does depend on the business).

YMMV

Yes a lot of good points there.

Turgon

Everyone wrote: »

Do they somehow create the illusion of bringing that value? You don't have to actually bring it, as long as you can make people think you are, that can be all it takes. I wouldn't recommend doing that, but there are people out there who do it and get away with it.

Lots of people like that. Also many people in the middle and upper middle echelons of large corporations just hanging around.

phaneuf1

It all depends on the location. 50K in NYC is not worth as much as 50K in wichita KS. I'm 24 and I make 51K, but you know what? If I wasn't bilingual and living in Toronto, which is a really expensive city to live in, I would probably make 40K-45K Maximum, and I only have an assiciate's degree. The secret working for large companies like banks and you will make big money. Big company = big money. I don't know for USA, but in canada that's how it works.

WayneW

Reading through this makes me feel very fortunate. I was picked up 6 months ago as a NOC network engineer, I am only 21 with about 6 months experience under my belt(regarding to networking...all with this current job, so no networking job exp when I was hired.) and was hired at 30k, I got my CCNA about 2 weeks ago and was bumped to 50k for that and was told it will explode with my CCNP and so forth. Needless to say the job has been a huge challenge but it's been the best learning experience anyone aspiring to be successful in this field could ask for.

I think the reason 'younger' people may be starting to shine is their ability and want to adapt and learn anything when older people in the field have a harder time adapting and have a harder time pushing themselves to learn everything..I know this isn't always the case but just what I've seen.