College degrees are worthless

eserfeliz

powerfool wrote: »

That is anecdotal, however, and doesn't represent the vast majority of folks experiences. Good for him, though.

If you read the rest of my post, you will see that I acknowledge that it is anecdotal. The point is to say: "Some people find worth in college degrees, others don't." It follows basic economic thought, that objects are worth the value that people place on them. There isn't any kind of research that can be completely subjective about this topic. In essence, every story is anecdotal.

it_consultant

snokerpoker wrote: »

College degrees are not worthless. After finishing WGU, I received over a 10% pay increase.

Ten percent, eh? And how much will your student loans run you? I am assuming you took loans. I would get more out of a CCNP or a PMP. Before you say it, yes the PMP requires a degree; I have an associates which will fit the bill if you have X amount of project management hours. At least, the last time I checked this was the case!

CodeBlox

it_consultant wrote: »

Ten percent, eh? And how much will your student loans run you? I am assuming you took loans. I would get more out of a CCNP or a PMP. Before you say it, yes the PMP requires a degree; I have an associates which will fit the bill if you have X amount of project management hours. At least, the last time I checked this was the case!

And a degree is still just that. A degree. Even if it's an associates.

joshmadakor

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Management would be a different story. However, I have bumped into Manager that only have a BS in biology and a manager for IT in a well known biomedical company.

Sorry, but can you rephrase this? Are you talking about yourself? You ran into a manager that had a BS in Biology?

veritas_libertas

it_consultant wrote: »

Ten percent, eh? And how much will your student loans run you? I am assuming you took loans. I would get more out of a CCNP or a PMP. Before you say it, yes the PMP requires a degree; I have an associates which will fit the bill if you have X amount of project management hours. At least, the last time I checked this was the case!

Uh, you have to be very bad off to need a loan for WGU.

Really for me I think that education, is education no matter which path you take but, what an employer is looking for is a different matter all together. Yes I know it all depends on which employer you ask, and that is why I'm pursuing a BS, because I think it will give me more opportunities. I would much rather be studying for the CCNA, or SSCP, etc.

erpadmin

it_consultant wrote: »

Ten percent, eh? And how much will your student loans run you? I am assuming you took loans. I would get more out of a CCNP or a PMP. Before you say it, yes the PMP requires a degree; I have an associates which will fit the bill if you have X amount of project management hours. At least, the last time I checked this was the case!

Believe me when I tell you this...a PMP is useless without so much as a Bachelor's (even if it's a basketweaving degree, so long as it's a basketweaving degree from a decent regionally accredited school.) At best, a PMP and an associates will probably get one a nice technical lead position (and that's at best) but not managing projects that are hundreds of thousands (if not straight-up millions) of dollars.

I'm on team at grad school now with an MBA student who has a PMP for one of my classes. I made sure I introduced myself to her so I could land myself on her team. She's already a PM at a well known company. If all you want to do is stay in the tech game, then perhaps an associates is fine, but today...you really are gonna need at least a Bachelor's, but now it's such that a Master's is seriously preferred. If someone is serious about completing a 30 credit degree, it can be done within two years. (Three tops.)

Plus, 10% may not seem a lot right now...but it'll grow more later. A BS doesn't double your salary instantly, but it will help in getting there eventually.

NOC-Ninja

joshmadakor wrote: »

Sorry, but can you rephrase this? Are you talking about yourself? You ran into a manager that had a BS in Biology?

Im not talking about myself.

A guy that I know is an IT manager at a Biomedical company. He doesn't have any IT degree. He has a BS in Biology but he has 10-15yrs experience in IT. Hes pretty old but he does know IT from work experience.

powerfool

erpadmin wrote: »

Plus, 10% may not seem a lot right now...but it'll grow more later. A BS doesn't double your salary instantly, but it will help in getting there eventually.

Not to mention that if you are working while you go to school (and also receive tuition reimbursement from your employer), you will see improvements while you are in school, more often than not.

While I was in school, I my salary increased 50% before I graduated, over the course of the four years I was in school.

kiki162

A degree helps to better secure your future...bottom line. However some might think that the first 2 years of it are worthless...mainly because of all the basic courses you have to take (math, english, etc...etc..). Overall all they do get you somewhere, it just takes time and will payoff eventually.

Unless your some sort of genius off the bat, most of us need some sort of education...whether it be a college degree or otherwise. Experience alone doesn't cut it and at some point you DO bottom out/plateau. I went through a 2 yr school to get my Associates (which took 5 years PT) and that along with a few certifications helped me to get out of working retail @ 24 yr old. Almost 10 years later, I'm 2 classes away from my BS degree and feel a lot better where I'm at college wise. I know that I'll never stop learning and I'll never stop get additional certifications to renew or keep up with the times.

Between the time that I started my degree and now, my salary has doubled. Eventually I'd like it to triple, but that will be a few more years.

kenoo

I work in the financial sector of nyc - let me tell you that any positions here, whether as an engineer, accountant, analyst, whatever, they will not look at you unless you have a BS/MS/PhD.

There's a reason why people here are paid exorbitant amounts - they're looking for the brightest, well educated, and most motivated employees.

RobertKaucher

This is all I have to say about this topic: Dr. Michio Kaku America Has A Secret Weapon - YouTube

it_consultant

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Uh, you have to be very bad off to need a loan for WGU.

Really for me I think that education, is education no matter which path you take but, what an employer is looking for is a different matter all together. Yes I know it all depends on which employer you ask, and that is why I'm pursuing a BS, because I think it will give me more opportunities. I would much rather be studying for the CCNA, or SSCP, etc.

I don't know how much WGU costs so I will take your word for it. The only reason why I would pursue a bachelor's degree at this point is to change careers. I am basically already hitting the ceiling of IT salaries so my main mission is to stay current. The main problem I see with bachelor's degrees is that they don't seem to have taught anyone anything and this is being recognized by HR departments. They can't rely on colleges to produce employable people. I got my foot in the door because I did 4 years in the military not because my of my associates degree.

I do admit that having the AS makes it easier for me to make it around the "bachelor's degree required" jobs. For everyone that says that their companies don't even look at people without 4 year degrees, I think you would be shocked by the amount of holes there are in those rules. Every job I have every applied for has been BS required.

erpadmin

it_consultant wrote: »

I do admit that having the AS makes it easier for me to make it around the "bachelor's degree required" jobs. For everyone that says that their companies don't even look at people without 4 year degrees, I think you would be shocked by the amount of holes there are in those rules. Every job I have every applied for has been BS required.

I can't dispute that, because I was in the same boat. Though as of today (since I officially received my degree), I'm not longer in that boat. Unlike you, I didn't even have an associates when I've gotten jobs you needed a BS for, including the job I have right now. HOWEVER, I can tell you right now that those days are slowly starting to go away.

I do not agree with you that HR departments care about what's being taught in colleges; they'd only care if you have a degree or not, and if you have a degree, then the check that box off. I have reached the ceiling of IT salaries (just about) so I pretty much had to get a BS degree (and for the cost, it was a no-brainer). However, your past military service (Thank You For Your Service!) or associates does add to your experience nicely. But if you ever want to go for management...that BS is going to be needed, at a minimum, though a Master's is preferred.

it_consultant

I can never tell how many jobs that I don't get because of my lack of a BS. I can tell you that even in a down economy I have never been out of a job and I have always transitioned up in pay and responsibility.

College degree is basically a checkbox in a lot of situations, but there is a lot of numbness to university educations out there right now. Primarily because the quality of the graduate (present company excluded I am sure) is not very high. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like engineering, medicine, and nursing, since the degree is a requirement for taking the certification test. Even in nursing they are feeling this. I work with NPs who will go through three or four BSNs before they get one that is worth keeping employed.

petedude

shodown wrote: »

Colleges degree's aren't worthless, They are just overpriced and don't return the ROI they once did.

There's something to this.

There's lots of conversation on the 'net right now of a building "college education" bubble, much like the housing bubble of a few years ago. Too many people are going into too much debt to get a college degree, and are not getting paid back quickly enough-- thus the overvaluation. Too many people have been sold on shelling out lots of $$$ for higher ed, only to watch much of it get sucked away into pretty campuses/fancy buildings/overly well-paid college staff who sometimes seem to be doing too little for too much money.

Much of this is changing already, or is about to.

Solid distance learning schools like WGU are lowering the cost of education, but on the other hand any degree is becoming increasingly critical. As you will read all over, the bachelor's is becoming the new HS diploma. While some of you bemoan having spent the time and money, you will be thrilled if your role gets suddenly cut at your current office and you actually get a phone call back on an application.

I think eventually we will see fancier state-run B&M schools roll back on campuses, facilities and staff almost to where many DL schools are now-- just occupying a few office buildings. There's just going to be no way to justify the expenditure, and fewer people will be willing to pay for all the trimmings.