Server work vs. networking

Novalith478

Hello all,

First of all, I am new to this site, and was wondering if I could have some clarification on a few things. I am in school working on a BA (non-IT related degree) but am looking to go into a career in IT. I am going the certification route. I have my A+ as of now, but I have a few more questions.

I understand that basically my two options are server side work or networking. Those are the only two areas which interest me. My question is, can someone explain to me exactly what those two entail? I want to have marketability but I also want to do something I enjoy.

Thanks for any input!

Everyone

"Server Work" aka Systems Administration/Engineering is pretty broad. Lots of options for specialization there. Windows, Linux, Unix, Messaging, Databases, and much much more.

Networking, not quite as broad. Work with routers and switches etc. Hardware load balancers will often fall into this category, sometimes firewalls. Different brands do things a little differently, so specialization here usually boils down to a brand. Cisco, Juniper, Brocade, Nortel, etc.

Always good to know the basics of the one you don't choose.

shodown

Thats kinda a open question while they are 2 paths that people go down, the rabbit hole goes deeper once you enter one for example. On the network side of the house which has mostly cisco experts, but you have all of us who have a great networking foundation but we work in different areas

Me- IP telephony
Forsaken-GA, Networker---ISP routing, service provider focused
Adlur---Juniper based Networks
Ahriakan- Network security focus


All of us have some idea of what the others do, but not a deep level to walk in and get a job. The guys who work servers are pretty much the same, where you have some guys/girls who are AD wizards, Exchange Jedi's, Unix Gods. So I think at this point, its best to kinda get a idea of what you want to do in whatever area you choose and then look for a focus then we can talk about marketability. You already hit the nail on the head as far as finding something you enjoy which is key.

ptilsen

I would say "systems" is a more accurate term than servers. Basically, you have broad fields:
Networking
Configuring switches, routers, and firewalls -- usually Cisco, Juniper, Adtran, HP
Designing, managing, maintaining service provider networks and/or networking equipment
Designing, managing, maintaining large enterprise networks and/or networking equipment

The networking field largely sits in OSI layers 1-4, mostly in 2 and 3 specifically. There is some crossover into working with servers, and in many cases you certainly have have a high-level understanding of common server technologies and implementations.

Systems
Supporting software, hardware, and end-users' use thereof
Installing, configuring, managing, and maintaining laptops, desktops, thin clients, and servers
Designing and implementing server systems
Designing and implementing workstation and software deployment systems

Systems administrators and engineers typically need at least a high-level understanding of networking, but often need a bit more depth to that understanding.

There are generalist roles that will involve crossover, and certainly anyone competent in either career track is at least somewhat aware of the other field's technologies. In the small business world, there is a lot of crossover, but not a lot of need for deep networking knowledge as most SMBs use fairly small switched networks and simple WAN architectures, in the case of multi-site SMBs.

Conversely, large managed service providers and larger organizations tend to have separate networking and systems departments. Systems are often split into desktop support, helpdesk, and server teams, and sometimes even those teams can be split further into supporting different products or areas of the business.

Generalists, generally working for SMBs or for MSPs support SMBs, will usually lean much heavier towards the systems side, but often need up to a CCNA-level knowledge of networking in order to design networks and occasionally configure switches, routers, and firewalls. That said, Cisco is not as common in the SMB sector, and extensive switching and routing configurations are also uncommon. A general knowledge of how networks work and how to configure ACLs, NAT, etc is required.

Both networking and systems have many sub-fields, such as virtualization, Windows, Exchange, Linux, UNIX, ERP systems, voice, firewalls, storage and so on. Job roles in both career tracks can vary greatly based on how specialized a given job is in a given organization. I tend to think systems is a bit broader in this sense, with more opportunities for both generalization and specialization, but I might not have the experience to make that claim.

All that said, your options in IT are not limited to systems or networking. You can also work in security, which can be focused on systems, networking, both, or neither, as it is a very broad field itself. You can work to get into IT management or project management, which can require a wide variety of technology understanding.

undomiel

Everyone wrote: »

Always good to know the basics of the one you don't choose.

I would like to stress the importance of this one. All too often (read, every day) I run across admins who have no clue what is happening on the network, nor do they want any idea. But they have huge difficulties troubleshooting problems when it is as basic as name resolution not working properly or a firewall blocking a port. If they had understood the basics then they would have figured out the problem pretty easily in many of these cases. They seem to think it is voodoo or black magic. So I would highly recommend following Everyone's suggestion and making sure that you have a basic understanding of what is happening in the other realm.

shodown

I can't agree enough.

Zartanasaurus

Server Admins build shopping centers, Network Admins build roads, bridges and traffic signals.

dustinmurphy

undomiel wrote: »

I would like to stress the importance of this one. All too often (read, every day) I run across admins who have no clue what is happening on the network, nor do they want any idea. But they have huge difficulties troubleshooting problems when it is as basic as name resolution not working properly or a firewall blocking a port. If they had understood the basics then they would have figured out the problem pretty easily in many of these cases. They seem to think it is voodoo or black magic. So I would highly recommend following Everyone's suggestion and making sure that you have a basic understanding of what is happening in the other realm.

+1000

Many networking roles actually involve some server administration, as well as many system / server admin roles involve networking. The two go hand-in-hand. Understanding both is a necessity in this day and age. There are few times (if you get in with a HUGE company) that you will be just stuck in one or the other. Most of the time, however, you will be required to understand the concepts of both.

In my last company, I was the System Admin. My main role was to build, maintain, and troubleshoot servers and desktops. Without a good understanding of networking, I would have never been able to do my job to the best of my abilities. It was only the last few months of my employment that I really delved into the networking world, learning how to admin Cisco equipment.

Zartanasaurus

undomiel wrote: »

I would like to stress the importance of this one. All too often (read, every day) I run across admins who have no clue what is happening on the network, nor do they want any idea. But they have huge difficulties troubleshooting problems when it is as basic as name resolution not working properly or a firewall blocking a port. If they had understood the basics then they would have figured out the problem pretty easily in many of these cases. They seem to think it is voodoo or black magic. So I would highly recommend following Everyone's suggestion and making sure that you have a basic understanding of what is happening in the other realm.

"What's wrong with the network?"
"Why is the firewall blocking my app?"

Sett

Whichever you pick, you'll blame the other one way too often :P

MAC_Addy

Sett wrote: »

Whichever you pick, you'll blame the other one way too often :P

This is a fact.

DigitalZeroOne

Novalith478 wrote: »

Hello all,

First of all, I am new to this site, and was wondering if I could have some clarification on a few things. I am in school working on a BA (non-IT related degree) but am looking to go into a career in IT. I am going the certification route. I have my A+ as of now, but I have a few more questions.

I understand that basically my two options are server side work or networking. Those are the only two areas which interest me. My question is, can someone explain to me exactly what those two entail? I want to have marketability but I also want to do something I enjoy.

Thanks for any input!

If you want a career in IT, why are you going for a degree that isn't related to IT?

Since people have went over the differences between the two, and since you are in school...I would find out if it's possible to get with the school and find out who is the Network person, and who is the Admin (may be one in the same). I would look at some tools they use and go with your gut as to what you like.

When I started in IT, I wanted to be a programmer, I found out very fast that I didn't like it. Looking back, I just didn't "get it" fast enough, so I became frustrated and stopped. Fast forward, I'm a Sys Admin, working primarily with VMware, with some very light Linux and Windows tasks on the side. I did learn a little Cisco along the way, and overall it makes me a better Admin. I also starting learning Powershell, and now I'm liking the idea of programming....well, scripting.

It's easy for someone to tell you the difference between different jobs or technologies, but you really need to look at them yourself to decide which one you like. You may end up liking both and work jobs where you utilize both skills.

Novalith478

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

If you want a career in IT, why are you going for a degree that isn't related to IT?

Since people have went over the differences between the two, and since you are in school...I would find out if it's possible to get with the school and find out who is the Network person, and who is the Admin (may be one in the same). I would look at some tools they use and go with your gut as to what you like.

When I started in IT, I wanted to be a programmer, I found out very fast that I didn't like it. Looking back, I just didn't "get it" fast enough, so I became frustrated and stopped. Fast forward, I'm a Sys Admin, working primarily with VMware, with some very light Linux and Windows tasks on the side. I did learn a little Cisco along the way, and overall it makes me a better Admin. I also starting learning Powershell, and now I'm liking the idea of programming....well, scripting.

It's easy for someone to tell you the difference between different jobs or technologies, but you really need to look at them yourself to decide which one you like. You may end up liking both and work jobs where you utilize both skills.

I am going for a non-IT related degree because I am keeping my options open. If the whole IT thing fails, the fall back is law school. Also very few schools in Ontario/Toronto offer IT degrees, it's comp-sci (which I can't do, me and math don't get along).

ptilsen

Novalith478 wrote: »

I am going for a non-IT related degree because I am keeping my options open. If the whole IT thing fails, the fall back is law school. Also very few schools in Ontario/Toronto offer IT degrees, it's comp-sci (which I can't do, me and math don't get along).

Can you at least get a business degree? Depending on your career direction, this can end up being more valuable than an IT degree anyway.

Novalith478

ptilsen wrote: »

Can you at least get a business degree? Depending on your career direction, this can end up being more valuable than an IT degree anyway.

Why does the degree matter so much? If it's not IT then it might as well anything else.

networker050184

Novalith478 wrote: »

Why does the degree matter so much? If it's not IT then it might as well anything else.

If you don't have any experience having an IT related degree will make it a lot easier on you finding that first job.

Novalith478

networker050184 wrote: »

If you don't have any experience having an IT related degree will make it a lot easier on you finding that first job.

This is true, but since we don't really have IT degrees in Canada (go look, I swear I'm not making this up), everyone either has a comp-sci degree or a BA. In order to gain experience I am going to look into volunteering/internships.

ptilsen

Novalith478 wrote: »

This is true, but since we don't really have IT degrees in Canada (go look, I swear I'm not making this up), everyone either has a comp-sci degree or a BA. In order to gain experience I am going to look into volunteering/internships.

This is generally true here, too, but we are starting to have more and more -- MIS, CIS/IS, CIT/IT. There are also the career colleges (eg. ITT Tech), but you're better off with a non-IT degree. Computer Science is still relevant enough to add points to an IT resume.

A BA in something that is wholly unrelated to IT is generally worthless early in your career. You will find some helpdesks supporting specific software or hardware, which just want to see aptitude and customer service skills since the hard skills required are hyper-specific.

Even later in your career, though, an unrelated degree can hurt. Degrees in English, Philosophy, or the arts are especially worthless. Don't get me wrong, having a degree from a recognizable school always adds some value -- heck, any degree adds value. But, if the other guy has CompSci, Business, or IT, that's an advantage over you. If the other guy doesn't have a degree but has tech skills or certs you don't, that's still an advantage. At least with an IT degree you can make up for missing certs and/or experience. Getting some certs and experience in the meantime will definitely help you either way.

Any credential is about proving you have the skill to do the job. The big thing in IT is that you don't necessarily need any degree or certification -- you just need the skill, the aptitude, and the ability to demonstrate or prove them. A BA in English does little to prove skill or aptitude in IT.

But really, just look at job postings. They generally say "Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, Engineering, MIS, Information Technology, Business, or related".

Again, I don't want to be misinterpreted here. You can be extremely successful in this line of work with no degree or with an unrelated degree. Having a relevant degree is just another way to increase your own marketability and value.

Novalith478

ptilsen wrote: »

This is generally true here, too, but we are starting to have more and more -- MIS, CIS/IS, CIT/IT. There are also the career colleges (eg. ITT Tech), but you're better off with a non-IT degree. Computer Science is still relevant enough to add points to an IT resume.

A BA in something that is wholly unrelated to IT is generally worthless early in your career. You will find some helpdesks supporting specific software or hardware, which just want to see aptitude and customer service skills since the hard skills required are hyper-specific.

Even later in your career, though, an unrelated degree can hurt. Degrees in English, Philosophy, or the arts are especially worthless. Don't get me wrong, having a degree from a recognizable school always adds some value -- heck, any degree adds value. But, if the other guy has CompSci, Business, or IT, that's an advantage over you. If the other guy doesn't have a degree but has tech skills or certs you don't, that's still an advantage. At least with an IT degree you can make up for missing certs and/or experience. Getting some certs and experience in the meantime will definitely help you either way.

Any credential is about proving you have the skill to do the job. The big thing in IT is that you don't necessarily need any degree or certification -- you just need the skill, the aptitude, and the ability to demonstrate or prove them. A BA in English does little to prove skill or aptitude in IT.

But really, just look at job postings. They generally say "Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, Engineering, MIS, Information Technology, Business, or related".

Again, I don't want to be misinterpreted here. You can be extremely successful in this line of work with no degree or with an unrelated degree. Having a relevant degree is just another way to increase your own marketability and value.

I agree. Here's the problem though. I am not about to switch into business, and comp-sci/engineering are out for me. I basically have to do a BA in arts, because my parents are paying for school. They're not about to let me drop out and go to some career college. Heck, I can do what I want. But they won't be happy with it. My plan was to stick out the 4 year Ba degree, get certs and internships/volunteer/jobs over the summers, and then after my BA maybe go to a career college to gain any necessary experience.

It's a bit of a bind, I still fully haven't made up my mind yet what I want to do in terms of schooling. I know for sure that I want to get into IT though, that is for certain.

ptilsen

Novalith478 wrote: »

I agree. Here's the problem though. I am not about to switch into business, and comp-sci/engineering are out for me. I basically have to do a BA in arts, because my parents are paying for school. They're not about to let me drop out and go to some career college. Heck, I can do what I want. But they won't be happy with it. My plan was to stick out the 4 year Ba degree, get certs and internships/volunteer/jobs over the summers, and then after my BA maybe go to a career college to gain any necessary experience.

It's a bit of a bind, I still fully haven't made up my mind yet what I want to do in terms of schooling. I know for sure that I want to get into IT though, that is for certain.

Definitely don't waste money on a career college. You could consider a Master's online, perhaps from WGU. Just don't go the career college route.

Novalith478

ptilsen wrote: »

Definitely don't waste money on a career college. You could consider a Master's online, perhaps from WGU. Just don't go the career college route.

WGU has little to no credibility around here. I've asked.

DevilWAH

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

If you want a career in IT, why are you going for a degree that isn't related to IT?

I did the same, Studied Zoology at uni, before getting a job in IT, My reasoning as this, I can lean about Computers at home, but I am unlikly to get the chance to fiddle with Electron Miscroscopes and other cool stuff if I don't do study it now.

And in fact science methodology can teach you a tried and tested approach to trouble shooting, indeed science is based around working out problems and finding the answers.

I think its all to easy to get sucked in to the "right" way to do thing mentality if you don't have a broader experience. My science background taught me how to question things, and that nothing is "Fact". Just because the rest of the world do it one way , and the guys who designed the system expected you to use it a certain way. Dose not mean that the only way I will work. Or that they are right.

Of the many IT experts I know, a lot come from other background, quite a few Scientists, Philosophers, and many others. The all generally have a much wider area of IT knowlage than average, and quite a few planed on getting in to IT after studying degrees in other subjects.

Personally I think IT is one field that you don't need to study at collage or University to do well in, or get a head start, When I look at a CV and see collage or Uni, I don't look if you have done IT related study, but what type of subject. Science, Maths, engineering show that you have an analytical mind and like applying understanding to a task. English, History, give me the impression of a mind that is more rigid and like to "know Facts".

I know as soon as you get past the basic stuff no one can be an expert in all areas, even highly experienced network engineers can be caught out by simple stuff, simply becasue they haven't come across it in the job before. For me when vetting CV and in interviews I am looking for some one who can pcik things up quickly, I am not concerned with what you know, so much if you don't know some thing, how long will it take you to learn it.

Also even now 14 years on, when I go to interview for networking roles, I get asked as much about my Science back ground as IT. I talk about IT my whole life at work, when I am interviewing a person I like to know some thing interesting about them, If I have 20 CV's on my desk you need to stand out, Having a collage Computer course is nothing special any more, I wont often bother pausing to see where or what you achieved (it will be the same as the last 10 I have just read). Putting, "Physics degree, spent my final year working at CERN on the [FONT=arial, sans-serif] Large Hadron Collider" on you CV will get me to pause and read rather than skim. And believe me that is 90% of a successful application, getting some one to actuly read your CV in full. [/FONT]

Novalith478

DevilWAH wrote: »

I did the same, Studied Zoology at uni, before getting a job in IT, My reasoning as this, I can lean about Computers at home, but I am unlikly to get the chance to fiddle with Electron Miscroscopes and other cool stuff if I don't do study it now.

And in fact science methodology can teach you a tried and tested approach to trouble shooting, indeed science is based around working out problems and finding the answers.

I think its all to easy to get sucked in to the "right" way to do thing mentality if you don't have a broader experience. My science background taught me how to question things, and that nothing is "Fact". Just because the rest of the world do it one way , and the guys who designed the system expected you to use it a certain way. Dose not mean that the only way I will work. Or that they are right.

Of the many IT experts I know, a lot come from other background, quite a few Scientists, Philosophers, and many others. The all generally have a much wider area of IT knowlage than average, and quite a few planed on getting in to IT after studying degrees in other subjects.

Personally I think IT is one field that you don't need to study at collage or University to do well in, or get a head start, When I look at a CV and see collage or Uni, I don't look if you have done IT related study, but what type of subject. Science, Maths, engineering show that you have an analytical mind and like applying understanding to a task. English, History, give me the impression of a mind that is more rigid and like to "know Facts".

I know as soon as you get past the basic stuff no one can be an expert in all areas, even highly experienced network engineers can be caught out by simple stuff, simply becasue they haven't come across it in the job before. For me when vetting CV and in interviews I am looking for some one who can pcik things up quickly, I am not concerned with what you know, so much if you don't know some thing, how long will it take you to learn it.

This was my approach. I am currently pursuing an arts degree in Philosophy and German, an philosophy isn't a joke as most people would say it is. Every step has to be reasoned out to perfection, and you can't simply make bold statements in philosophy, they have to be backed up with logic and analytical reasoning. The same is in computers. Being able to reason and analyze problems/systems is much more efficient and smarter than simply going down a list of things to check off when faced with a challenge.

it_consultant

Novalith478 wrote: »

Hello all,

First of all, I am new to this site, and was wondering if I could have some clarification on a few things. I am in school working on a BA (non-IT related degree) but am looking to go into a career in IT. I am going the certification route. I have my A+ as of now, but I have a few more questions.

I understand that basically my two options are server side work or networking. Those are the only two areas which interest me. My question is, can someone explain to me exactly what those two entail? I want to have marketability but I also want to do something I enjoy.

Thanks for any input!

The reality is, as others mentioned, you will probably end up doing both in your professional career. I am mainly a systems admin but I am quite comfortable on the CLI of a Cisco, HP, or Ad Tran among other brands. Not knowing networking as a sysadmin is very limiting. In pure networking you don't need to know quite as much sysadmin work as a sysadmin needs to know networking, but a lot of that is driven by your employment. If you work for an ISP then you don't need to know much sysadmin stuff. If you work in Corporate IT, you might as well have a pretty good understanding of server stuff/issues.

DevilWAH

it_consultant wrote: »

Not knowing networking as a sysadmin is very limiting. In pure networking you don't need to know quite as much sysadmin work as a sysadmin needs to know networking

From a back ground in both and now a Network engineer I would say almost the opposite . I do lots of Network trouble shooting and understanding how the applications work is key to being able to trouble shoot them.

What you do need in any IT team are the people who understand both, with out some of these in the team it can all go horibble wrong, especially when you are developing new, you need the people who can bridge the gap and relay between the two teams what is required, or explain why an idea might not work as expected.

I have seen many examples in both directions of one team setting out there requirements and the other team implementing something completly unsubtle. I would suggest to any one getting in to IT to spend there first few year covering as many areas as possible. The more you know the better you will understand the big picture.

vinbuck

My 2 pesos,

I've played hard in both realms over the last 13 years and Networking is the true path to IT enlightenment. To truly understand networking is to understand how all the pieces and parts come together. Everything today requires the network and most technology is designed to function on the network. As a network engineer, you are constantly forced to to learn about technologies far outside of your comfort zone because it's typically easier for the network engineer to learn just enough about an application, sever platform, etc than it is for a server admin or programmer to learn networking.

At the risk of starting a war , I will go out on a limb and say that network guys and gals are generally better troubleshooters than their server counterparts because reboots don't tend to magically fix problems - systematic/logical troubleshooting with a healthy dose of wire shark, however, will.

And probably the biggest factor is salary - there is routinely a demand for 100K plus Network Engineers, you would have a hard time getting that as an AD Server administrator without going into management.

DevilWAH

vinbuck wrote: »

My 2 pesos,

I've played hard in both realms over the last 13 years and Networking is the true path to IT enlightenment. To truly understand networking is to understand how all the pieces and parts come together. Everything today requires the network and most technology is designed to function on the network. As a network engineer, you are constantly forced to to learn about technologies far outside of your comfort zone because it's typically easier for the network engineer to learn just enough about an application, sever platform, etc than it is for a server admin or programmer to learn networking.

At the risk of starting a war , I will go out on a limb and say that network guys and gals are generally better troubleshooters than their server counterparts because reboots don't tend to magically fix problems - systematic/logical troubleshooting with a healthy dose of wire shark, however, will.

And probably the biggest factor is salary - there is routinely a demand for 100K plus Network Engineers, you would have a hard time getting that as an AD Server administrator without going into management.

Your a brave man, (But yes we all admit in prvt that the Networking guys are the clever ones )

I do think that there are differentness to the two fields, I have several experienced system admin friends and while I would not suggest that I am cleaver then them or know any more than them, we do have different way of looking at things. Networking is more modular and logical than system. Indeed I see more over lap with programming and scripting friends than those doing sys admin, and i find lots of the skills of networking are usefull when scripting to.

Forsaken_GA

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

"What's wrong with the network?"
"Why is the firewall blocking my app?"

Had to deal with this **** today. Dude insisted the firewalls were blocking SNMP to his content server.

Turned out the SNMP daemon had crashed. Must not hurt stupid users, or so I keep telling myself.

it_consultant

DevilWAH wrote: »

From a back ground in both and now a Network engineer I would say almost the opposite . I do lots of Network trouble shooting and understanding how the applications work is key to being able to trouble shoot them.

What you do need in any IT team are the people who understand both, with out some of these in the team it can all go horibble wrong, especially when you are developing new, you need the people who can bridge the gap and relay between the two teams what is required, or explain why an idea might not work as expected.

I have seen many examples in both directions of one team setting out there requirements and the other team implementing something completly unsubtle. I would suggest to any one getting in to IT to spend there first few year covering as many areas as possible. The more you know the better you will understand the big picture.

I should have qualified my statements a little more clearly, which is hard when you talk in huge generalities. There are a lot of net engineer jobs that really don't really ever deal with anything in the server realm. I have run into zero examples of a sysadmin job where networking experience wasn't needed or helpful.

it_consultant

vinbuck wrote: »

My 2 pesos,

I've played hard in both realms over the last 13 years and Networking is the true path to IT enlightenment. To truly understand networking is to understand how all the pieces and parts come together. Everything today requires the network and most technology is designed to function on the network. As a network engineer, you are constantly forced to to learn about technologies far outside of your comfort zone because it's typically easier for the network engineer to learn just enough about an application, sever platform, etc than it is for a server admin or programmer to learn networking.

At the risk of starting a war , I will go out on a limb and say that network guys and gals are generally better troubleshooters than their server counterparts because reboots don't tend to magically fix problems - systematic/logical troubleshooting with a healthy dose of wire shark, however, will.

And probably the biggest factor is salary - there is routinely a demand for 100K plus Network Engineers, you would have a hard time getting that as an AD Server administrator without going into management.

No war, there are fewer people with true networking skills and troubleshooting than there are sysadmins who can reboot their way through a problem. A really quality net engineer (or sysadmin) is probably worth every bit of 100K a year. I can say this with confidence, I am in that salary bubble.

vinbuck

DevilWAH wrote: »

Your a brave man, (But yes we all admit in prvt that the Networking guys are the clever ones )

Just been my personal experience. I was a server jockey for 10 years before becoming a die hard network guy and it's a different environment - It is much more acceptable to blame software for an issue in that environment and if it can't be resolved then it's forgotten about or buried in a ticket queue.

When people, businesses, police/fire departments, hospitals, etc depend on you for Internet Access, Voice and critical infrastructure, then you can't exactly say, "must be a glitch, please submit a ticket and we will get back to you in a few days" That issue must be resolved if it requires you working through the night. It's just a different level of dedication and sense of urgency. Out of respect for the really good server jockeys out there, there are some great ones, they are just too few and far between.