9/11 GI BILL and certification boot camps?

spicy ahi

This is directed to all my fellow vets. A buddy of mine and I were talking this morning and he mentioned that he was trying to find a boot camp that used the 9/11 GI BILL. I told him that they didn't cover IT/technical training so like the IT nerds we are, we consulted google to see who would win the "fight." There's a lot of obscure information, some of it pointing to 9/11 now covering alternative training (vocational training, flight school, etc.) but neither of us could find anything specifically stating technical training was covered. I also looked up trainingcamp.com and they mentioned there were approved 9/11 training camps but didn't say how the payouts worked and such so I'm guessing that I am wrong. At this point, I'm actually interested in using it to fund my training as I don't have the time to go to school and take advantage of the BAH. Has anyone actually used the 9/11 GI Bill to fund training or know of anyone who has? And if so, how does it work? Do they pay out the same way as they would for a college course?

Whiteout

I know with the old Montgomery bill you couldn't use it for training and such. But the post 9/11 covers a much broader spectrum as you said. The 9/11 bill pays your tuition directly to the school or place of learning. Then you get a monthly check for BAH. So I would guess that they would pay for the training (directly funded to the provider), assuming it is covered. Then you would get a prorated check for BAH.

Say you do a two week C|EH boot camp (we assume it is covered):

VA pays your boot camp fee directly to EC-Council.
You receive 50% of the monthly BAH.
You know have 35/36 months remaining on your post 9/11 bill.

Keep in mind this is just an educated guess. I would go to your local VA office or if you live near a base go to their education office.

Good luck!

spicy ahi

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That's kind of along the same lines I was thinking. I do hope that they don't round the time up (charge 1 month for say the aforementioned 2 week class) or if they do it that way, they hopefully would allow me to stack training (maybe reserve another 2 week bootcamp sometime later or something) I was also curious about how they would bill and how 9/11 would pay for an out of state training (Would the tuition payment and BAH be based on my state or the state where the training takes place) as I would probably have to do the training camps on the mainland since they don't host very many bootcamps in Hawaii. Ah well, I've contacted a few training companies that say they're approved for 9/11 and I'll update when I do talk to them.

Whiteout

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Sorry don't have answers to any of this questions, anything I said would just be speculation. Ha ha. That's good news that you've confirmed this type of training(bootcamps) are approved for use with the 9/11. I'm very interested to hear how this works if you do end up doing it, keep us updated!

I wonder if you could work in a plane ticket as part of the "training" cost...

KPLC

Best place to contact would be Dept. of Veterans Affairs. Next best place would be your nearest military installation and go to their education center(s). Hawaii has a few. I do remember reading something about vocational training with the Post 9/11 MGIB. And if you have the Pre 9/11 MGIB you can convert to the Post, restrictions apply I believe.

spicy ahi

Whiteout wrote: »

Sorry don't have answers to any of this questions, anything I said would just be speculation. Ha ha. That's good news that you've confirmed this type of training(bootcamps) are approved for use with the 9/11. I'm very interested to hear how this works if you do end up doing it, keep us updated!

I wonder if you could work in a plane ticket as part of the "training" cost...

Will do! And I'm with you with the ticket thing.

KPLC wrote: »

Best place to contact would be Dept. of Veterans Affairs. Next best place would be your nearest military installation and go to their education center(s). Hawaii has a few. I do remember reading something about vocational training with the Post 9/11 MGIB. And if you have the Pre 9/11 MGIB you can convert to the Post, restrictions apply I believe.

Thanks for that. I did drop by the local ed center here on base (it's right up the street from my office) and the lady had heard something about it but didn't have any solid information so she's gonna get back to me when she finds out more. I put up my post when I got back to the office hoping I could get someone with direct experience with the situation. Oh, and another negative about being in Hawaii is that I'm 2-6 hours behind depending on daylight savings. Wouldn't you know when I tried to call VA, they were closed? I did put in a question into the knowledge base so between that, the lady at the ed center, my friend contacting his buddy that used the 9/11 for a boot camp, and the emails I put in to the training companies I'm hoping I'll have the definitive answer tomorrow.

KPLC

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Not a problem! And if you can't get a definitive answer, you can at least add all the info together and get a 70-80% answer. Gotta love the military and DVA. :P

coty24

Guys, remember that you can use ALL of your chapter 30 GI BILL and have a one year of chapter 33.

gunbunnysoulja

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Very true... This is what I'm doing, as I still have 1 month left on Chapter 30 before I switch to Chapter 33 (must be FULLY depleted).

colemic

Website saying you can: Active Duty Military & Veterans Can Use Post 9/11 GI Bill for Technical Training (I have used these guys before)

Website saying you can't: Can I Use the New GI Bill to Attend Helicopter Flight School? | Education Benefits, Montgomery GI Bill, Post 9/11 GI Bill | GI Bill Expert | GIBill.com « GI Bill Expert Blog (assuming that helicopter flight school is in the same category as a boot camp)

In my experience: I am still under the Montgomery version. It reimbursed (not paid up front) 60% of the cost of the camp, and 100% of the test costs. From my (limited) understanding, and what I remember reading, it can't be used. Although if CED says you can, they might have tweaked the rules some to allow for it.

I have no intention of switching, WGU costs ~2800 a term (6 months) and I receive payments of 1473/month, so I actually am paid to go to school. The new GI Bill would give me much less (cost of school + 1/2 BAH payment of 683/month). Right now I have ~17 months left. So, thank you American Taxpayers!

spicy ahi

I love it when a plan comes together. Too bad that's the only thing I love about it this morning (more on that soon) So I woke up early to call VA and while on hold (half an hour - that's a personal best for me) I checked my email and got responses from the two certification camps (ccbootcamp.com and trainingcamp.com) that I was looking at. Alright, fast forward half an hour later:

Spoke to a nice lady named Paula and she gave me the breakdown. Essentially whiteout was right. Ch. 33 pays the tuition, up to $17500 to the bootcamp provider as well as pays you the prorated monthly for books and fees ($83) They also pay you the full month of BAH for the training, regardless of the length of the class (up to 1 month) so if you take a week or two week long bootcamp, you get a month of BAH. The downside to that is that they also charge a month against your benefits so even though the camp may be a week or two, you are charged the full month of benefit use. I asked about stacking training (like taking back to back courses) and she said that as long as they are approved by VA you could do it. So if you could find a bootcamp hosting back to back 2 week bootcamps that are VA approved, you'll be able to have both camps covered, collect the full month's BAH, and get the $83. Good so far, but...

This is where it goes sideways for me. She said that most approved certification bootcamps are local, meaning that VA usually (as far as she knew) approves only locally provided training. So in the case of trainingcamp.com, I could attend the 7 day CISSP class in Pennsylvania and I would have the class covered as well as getting the month of BAH at the Pennsylvania rate and the $83. However, the class offering in Hawaii is not covered. Sucks for me. She did mention that I should check directly with the vendor I'm trying to go with to find out because they may have gotten approval for remote training so there may be a training provider out there that is approved (guess I have a little more homework to do) I confirmed from the email I got from the training camp training consultant that indeed only their Pennsylvania offerings are covered by Ch. 33.

I held hope that maybe I could at least secure my CCNP bootcamp later this year, after I passed the CISSP, with ccbootcamp.com since it's cheap to fly to Las Vegas from Hawaii and I have family there so I don't have to pay for a hotel or car. Unfortunately, they are still going through the process to get their curriculum approved for VA. So there's still an outside chance. But there's at least hope for CCIE (late) next year Hope that helps!

erpadmin

colemic wrote: »

Right now I have ~17 months left. So, thank you American Taxpayers!

No, no...thank you for your service to our country.

As a civilian who's never served, I take no issue with the benefits veterans receive...or veteran's preference over someone like myself (even if it might be to my own detriment.) Way I figure, there's plenty of pie to go around the table...if I lose out to vets over vet's preference, so be it. Same with your benefits...way I figure, you got crappy pay serving my country, you might as well enjoy some monetary benefit going back to school.

Whiteout

That is good news spicey ahi. Cool that you get the full months worth of BAH, definitely would be awesome if you could stack a couple boot camps together and only use up 1 month of benefits. I plan on using my VA for this after school, thanks for doing the HW!

colemic

We went to Alamo Draft House last night and saw Men of Valor. I was expecting it to be a movie where the audience stands up in the end, chanting USA! USA! USA! out of pride... but it is a very sobering movie. My wife actually said that after watching it, as a citizen, she is embarrassed what the nation thinks is acceptable pay to someone who gives so much of themselves, and of their families. And I agree.


Spicy Ahi,

Chekc out CED solutions. Based out of Atlanta, but the cost for most bootcamps includes $400 (I think) to cover airfare, AND lodging at a hotel, with meals (excluding dinner.)

spicy ahi

Whiteout wrote: »

That is good news spicey ahi. Cool that you get the full months worth of BAH, definitely would be awesome if you could stack a couple boot camps together and only use up 1 month of benefits. I plan on using my VA for this after school, thanks for doing the HW!

Not a problem. Hopefully I find a viable option for myself in terms of locally available training. Or anything on the West Coast. Gives me an excuse to write off a trip!

colemic wrote: »

Chekc out CED solutions. Based out of Atlanta, but the cost for most bootcamps includes $400 (I think) to cover airfare, AND lodging at a hotel, with meals (excluding dinner.)

Thanks. I forgot all about this. I've also got a cousin who retired out of Ft. Gordon whom I haven't seen in a few years. I'll give him a call and see if he has or knows of anyone who has taken a training course with them before.

Mrock4

I'm late to the party, but wanted to contribute. Helicopter training is not in the same boat as boot camps, unfortunately. There's a lot of 'special cases' with bootcamps, whereas flight training is flight training. I forget the terminology, but if a flight school falls under a certain designation, then the post 9/11 GI Bill will cover it- so it's really dependent upon the school. I believe it also has to be part of a degree-granting institution, unless they changed that.

the_hutch

As far as I know, its pretty much a no all around. I tried to use my military benefits to get my CISSP bootcamp funded...instead, ended up having to pay out of pocket.

Mrock4

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Not that it helps any, but at least you invested in yourself, so you'll get that money back. It'll be hard to quantify when you've earned it back, but it's not like you spent it on a new (severely discounted) corvette.

Still sucks though.

the_hutch

Oh, I'm not complaining at all. Paying out of pocket for certifications has already paid off. It set me apart from all the other enlisted comm guys. I went from working a level 1 helpdesk job to a vulnerability analyst / SQL database administrator position. Granted I'm not getting paid any more because I'm in the military...but I'm already getting network security and database experience. So I can actually get a real IT job when I get out, as opposed to working for the geek squad.

tpatt100

Knowing what I know now if I had the opportunity to go to boot camps with my GI Bill I would not have done it if it was possible. I went to boot camps because my employer paid for it and to be honest, they are a way to get a good cram session in with self study but I would rather use benefit money for traditional college or online.

Mrock4

the_hutch wrote: »

Oh, I'm not complaining at all. Paying out of pocket for certifications has already paid off. It set me apart from all the other enlisted comm guys. I went from working a level 1 helpdesk job to a vulnerability analyst / SQL database administrator position. Granted I'm not getting paid any more because I'm in the military...but I'm already getting network security and database experience. So I can actually get a real IT job when I get out, as opposed to working for the geek squad.

That's the way to do it. I had the same mentality, and finished my time last year. It's really done well for me. I have co-workers getting out now that just did the minimum (ie: no education or certs), and they're having a hard time finding anything other than the geek squad. Not that the geek squad is a bad thing, but after 10 years in the military, it's not a great thing.

zrockstar

spicy ahi wrote: »

Ch. 33 pays the tuition, up to $17500 to the bootcamp provider as well as pays you the prorated monthly for books and fees ($83) They also pay you the full month of BAH for the training, regardless of the length of the class (up to 1 month) so if you take a week or two week long bootcamp, you get a month of BAH. The downside to that is that they also charge a month against your benefits so even though the camp may be a week or two, you are charged the full month of benefit use.

Wait so a $17,500 bootcamp only costs one month of benefits? If that is the case I have been using my GI Bill wrong for the last 3 years. How does that work with the max instate tuition restrictions? By the way for people looking into this, CompTIA got in bed with New Horizons for their troops to tech push, so I would expect that New Horizons is supporting the GI Bill fully. I have been to one of their classes years and years ago and wasn't to thrilled about it, but I have no experience as of late.

spicy ahi

Wow, I forgot all about this thread! I had to read back to remember the circumstances so it may be inaccurate for me to comment on it now. But I do believe that it was coverd up to the maximum rate of $17500. However, the process of qualifying as a training center (as I recall the conversation I had with someone at ccbootcamp where I wanted to attend training) includes a price breakdown and validation of the charged price. So is it possible that a training center could charge that much? Sure. Would the VA allow it? I think said training center would have to sell it really well to get that much. Again, it's been almost four months so the details are a little fuzzy. I'll see if I can contact VA again on Thursday (as I'm sure I'm not going to get anywhere on the day before the 4th of July) and get a clearer answer for you zrockstar.

nerdydad

If anyone has any insight into this, I would really appreciate it. I have been doing a bunch of Google searches trying to find a way to use my post 9/11 to help with a CCIE bootcamp and have not uncovered anything recent. I have not gone as far as contacting the VA yet, but honestly my past inquiries for other things does not lead me to believe the average employee answering the phones has any idea about "special" circumstances.

archer_ISIS

All,
This may or may not be useful, just thought I'd add a data point.

I got a letter from the VA yesterday confirming payment of $10,500 (60% eligibility) to New Horizons. I'm still sorting out whether there will actually be BAH payments, but at least I will be able to take a few classes at NH based on the Post-9/11 GI Bill over the next 12 months. The NH rep included language in the enrollment agreement that includes exam costs, as well.

spiderjericho

I'm still on active and would like GI Bill to pay for a CCIE two-week course.

I'm going to inquire with base Ed to see what they say.

MacDill AFB Base Ed told me to call the VA, as they don't know if it's possible or GI Bill specifics.

So I'll be giving them a call tomorrow to follow up.

spicy ahi

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Hey Spider, I've called VA and if you've ever had to call them before you'll know that you're not going to get much. I had to call several times to make sure the info. I posted previously was accurate. However, I do know that at the time I was doing the research, most of the approved VA training centers for IT certification training were centered around Virginia. The only nationally approved training center at the time was New Horizons.

Of course, times change and more centers have been approved. My suggestion for you is to check out a 9/11 approved training center and ask them how it works. I found one here Post 9/11 GI Bill | IT, Computer & Business Certification | Tampa, Florida so you can call them and see how it works for them. If you do and find out something, let us know!

dmoore44

@Spicy Ahi - I started a thread a while ago in the education forum about GI Bill Approved Training Centers - you can view it here: https://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/77110-gi-bill-approved-training-centers.html

JBM425

archer_ISIS wrote: »

All,
This may or may not be useful, just thought I'd add a data point.

I got a letter from the VA yesterday confirming payment of $10,500 (60% eligibility) to New Horizons. I'm still sorting out whether there will actually be BAH payments, but at least I will be able to take a few classes at NH based on the Post-9/11 GI Bill over the next 12 months. The NH rep included language in the enrollment agreement that includes exam costs, as well.

May I ask at which New Horizons center you took the training? Their Portland, OR center is not VA approved, so I'd have to go out-of-town to get the training at one of their VA-approved locations.

L0@$t

We need to keep this thread updated as my recent search for this information has been almost fruitless. I think the VA still does not have the details of certification training worked out. Us Vets owe it to each other to keep each informed.

I found out New Horizons has full on training completely covered by the GI Bill but after talking to one of their obviously shady sales reps I did some searching to find out what people's experiences have been with NH and they were NOT good. So I am going back to the drawing board on finding another training provider.

Please, if you have been to any providers that are fully covered by the GI Bill please let the rest of us know if your experience was good or bad. I am currently looking at CED Solutions.

Mccaula718

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I'm so glad you posted this. I actually came to this site today specifically to post about this. I'm extremely interested in using my 9/11 for certifications, specifically for CCIE. Have any of you guys come across a vendor that provides this training or even training for other certifications? This information seems sparse across even google.