I know its against the forum principles...

Devilry

I just wanted to let you guys know that certifications are great, you should get them, they can only help you.

Although, I have 8 years experience in IT, and I just landed a new gig as Help Desk Level III. The title isnt the greatest, but it paid significantly more than most system admin jobs in the area even, and the benefits are outstanding. The company is a $30B+ international size.

I don't have a single certification.

I have goals and aspirations to get certs under my belt once I am enrolled at WGU, but currently I am working on an A.S.

Moral of the story: don't think you can't get a job without cert's, or that cert's mean you'll get the job: know your stuff, and you'll succeed. Although, if you have cert's combined with knowledge and experience, you'll probably get more call backs IMO.

VAHokie56

Certainty more then one way to skin a cat... For people trying to break into the industry with zero experience the certs will give them some leverage.

ChickenNuggetz

I think generally a lot of new comers to IT probably think "cert = job" and I'm sure there are some situations where that is the case. I do honestly think thought that certifications serve the same principle as a college degree does. Edcuation is NEVER a bad thing. Education serves to give an individual more in their "toolbox" to utilize. Success in this industry (and really, any industry) comes not from how many tools you have in your "toobox" but moreso how you use those tools and when to use them; that's what really counts.

Devilry

Absolutely, it makes you more well-rounded.

networker050184

It is definitely possible to succeed without certifications in IT. No offense, but after 8 years in IT and you are still on the helpdesk I'd venture to say some certifications (and most importantly the knowledge that they encompass) could have helped you move up to a much better job a long time ago.

Everyone

Yes after 8 years you certainly could have been in a much higher level position, even without certs and/or a degree. I'm proof of that. However, everybody's path is different. There's no cookie cutter 1 size fits all for succeeding in IT.

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

It is definitely possible to succeed without certifications in IT. No offense, but after 8 years in IT and you are still on the helpdesk I'd venture to say some certifications (and most importantly the knowledge that they encompass) could have helped you move up to a much better job a long time ago.

Glad someone said it, I didn't want to be a #### today.

tpatt100

I think that sometimes people on this board think its normal or should be the standard that you do a quick 1-2 years on help desk and then "jump" ship to move up or out. Not all helpdesk is the same call center hell holes some of us have experienced. My help desk days were very laid back and I got additional duties that allowed me a natural progression "up" but this is not always available to everyone. And some help desk levels are the more advanced tech support that are well beyond just helping people with Microsoft Word.

Devilry

shodown & Everyone & [Supportive?] Moderator (networker050184) ,

Don't assume with titles its a lowly position. All help desk is not the same. Some companies name people system admins that should be help desk and vice versa. I have been a "systems administrator" for over 5 years now.

This help desk labeled job is actually a supervisory type role in practical technicality and pays $80k (in one of the cheapest COLA in the nation). Considering I have a wide range of benefits that are completely paid for on top of that, i'd say it was a step up from my former position.

techinthewoods

How about you private message me the name of the company and any info on how I can get my foot in the door there!

SteveLord

You have 8 years experience. And if it's the kind of experience this/next job is aiming for, that is what generally matters most....to the right employer that won't filter you out for NOT having a certain certification or education.

I also do not know where you got that this was some kind of forum principle. We all know certs aren't everything, but it is nice to have a resource like TE for researching them. There are few out there, especially with the activity TE has.

networker050184

Devilry wrote: »

shodown & Everyone & [Supportive?] Moderator (networker050184) ,

Don't assume with titles its a lowly position. All help desk is not the same. Some companies name people system admins that should be help desk and vice versa. I have been a "systems administrator" for over 5 years now.

This help desk labeled job is actually a supervisory type role in practical technicality and pays $80k (in one of the cheapest COLA in the nation). Considering I have a wide range of benefits that are completely paid for on top of that, i'd say it was a step up from my former position.

No matter the pay helpdesk is rather low level work, technology wise. If that is what you like to do more power to you. Sounds like you found a nice gig doing it. I don't care if the pay was six figures I wouldn't be happy working helpdesk.

Crikey

I work in a small shop, but on large government contracts. I have a hand in it all, from networking to servers to end users on HD. Just depends on where you are.

Certs aren't required here; as a matter of fact, I have more recent certs than the "head" engineer - who is almost incompetent, despite being an MCSE.

erpadmin

I was gonna say something that was similar to what networker said, but since he said it, I can go on a different take, especially since the OP had originally taken issue with how long it personally took me to make my money (and status.)

I'll take the time to recap my own IT path...

1997-2001 (no certs) -- Jack of All Trade job at a public sector institution. Making $26k-$32k
2001-2002 (no certs, though A+ was "encouraged") Desktop Support Analyst at a popular online brokerage. Making $40k-41k (not including 15% bonus). My only professional regret because it was a step backwards from what I did prior...but I was seeing more money.....but I was also young and stupid.
2002-2003 (living off unemployment and trying like hell to get another job.) Seeing $975/every two weeks.
2003-2006 (became an ERP admin, in large part because staff that was there before me wanted no part in learning PeopleSoft. I knew what an ERP was thanks to popular online brokerage being an SAP shop.) Making $56k a year (while others who were dumber were making a lot more...) Obtained A+ and Network+ ONLY to use toward an MCSA 2003 cert that I would end up not getting.
2006-Present (ERP/Database admin). Started with $64k, now have $90k. During my tenure, I obtained the rest of my CERT list: Security+, [CIW Web Associate v5], Project+, [CIW Javascript Specialist], MCTS 70-680, MCITP:EA, Bachelor of Science, IT - Networks Design and Management. It should be noted that I didn't need so much as ANY of these credentials to get or keep my current job. My raise was dictated by the union (something my current management HATES with a passion...) and I could just ST[X]U and just do my job for a couple of decades and have a nice pension. However, that's not how I roll...if I don't push myself, I become complacent and lazy. I'm trying to see IT management at some point in my career.

I could have gotten a desktop support supervisor job. (easily) But baby-sitting tickets is not something I'm into. Having said that, I respect those level 1/2 guys who want to be a big fish in a small pond. We backoffice guys don't get to deal with end users that much...I'm ok with that, because I'd rather have the salary that comes with being a backoffice professional.

So OP, congratulations on your new gig. Being a big fish in a small pond is really quite admirable (and I mean that, no sarcasm intended.) I just [personally] wouldn't do it.

Roguetadhg

I have to agree with Devilry's main topic: You don't need a certification.

Use a certification as a guide. A test of saying "I know how to do this, not put me through your worst and test me in the real world." Of course there's persons out there that don't study, and when asked questions you can see their eyes roll to the back of their head thinking of a witty response.

You don't need a certification, and hell - as im finding out the technologies i'm learning about isn't really... well.. current. Learning a hell of a lot of Frame-Relay where MPLS is the main point.

Personally, I use a certification as a frame of what I need to know, how to know it correctly, best practices, and the like. Harder certifications, for me are worth the challenge. Yes, jobs will require a certification, but not all. Even if you don't have a certification, if you're good enough they will most likely bend the rules.

tpatt100

networker050184 wrote: »

No matter the pay helpdesk is rather low level work, technology wise. If that is what you like to do more power to you. Sounds like you found a nice gig doing it. I don't care if the pay was six figures I wouldn't be happy working helpdesk.

Except like he said not all helpdesk jobs are low level work...I have been on the phone with "help desk" techs of different levels that knew lots more about products I was supporting than I did, that was why we would call them. I have been on the phone with Checkpoint and they had to elevate it to their higher level tech support which again might be called help desk for some but these were engineers that would walk me through problem calls, ask me to email them logs, files etc so they could troubleshoot. I am sure these guys are paid pretty well and probably are kept pretty current with tech.

networker050184

tpatt100 wrote: »

Except like he said not all helpdesk jobs are low level work...I have been on the phone with "help desk" techs of different levels that knew lots more about products I was supporting than I did, that was why we would call them. I have been on the phone with Checkpoint and they had to elevate it to their higher level tech support which again might be called help desk for some but these were engineers that would walk me through problem calls, ask me to email them logs, files etc so they could troubleshoot. I am sure these guys are paid pretty well and probably are kept pretty current with tech.

Understandable, but the higher tech jobs aren't helpdesk answering phones. Again if that's what you are into more power to you, but most people would rather move into an engineering/design etc role after working in IT for eight years. Its the natural progression upward from the first line of defense fixing issues to actually designing solutions.

tpatt100

That is why its called "Level III" Help Desk, you are not just sitting there answering phones all day. It goes through the levels of troubleshooting and some issues have to get elevated beyond simple "break fix". Companies having actual in house IT support is going to become more and more scarce so every "engineer" is going to become "Level III" something or other eventually. You think once you "engineer/design" something your no longer supporting it? Your going to be on the phone somewhere along the chain once something breaks.

networker050184

Ok, I guess you don't understand what I'm getting at. There is a difference between support, engineering and architecture roles. Support roles are the lowest level. Most people want to move up to the higher levels. Certifications can help with that.

Nothing wrong with working support, just not where most people want to be that far into their career.

paul78

networker050184 wrote: »

There is a difference between support, engineering and architecture roles. Support roles are the lowest level. Most people want to move up to the higher levels.

I cannot disagree more with that statement. Support roles are what makes any for-profit company successfull, it's what retains customers, and what distinguishes a great company from a good company. It's all about customer-service. As a consumer, would you prefer to do business with a company that offers mediocre service or great service.

Help-desk and support roles are an integral part of any company - it's not the lowest level nor the highest level. In a well-managed company where management understands and appreciates the value of all the functional roles, it's part of the management's job to dispel those types of myths.

As for career advancement, there are lots of areas to grow - management, client services, account management, sales, business analysis, etc.

chopsticks

Ironically, I am now an Network Engineer (still working on my CCNA Cert) but is doing mainly Desktop role! Feel dishearted actually (don't be mistaken, I was in Desktop role for 10+ years)

Devilry

It has always been one of my frowned upon things with this forum, lots of users here are so stubbornly stuck on titles, it's the same crowd who focuses on fan-boi clothing brands and thinks there's are better because the name is smeared all across it.

Anyway, since astonishingly I feel the need to explain my job role when I was simple making an encouraging statement to those who are on or come to these boards often in hopes of encouragement with their career aspirations:

My job will be a Level III Help Desk job: the description? I am in charge specifically with supervisory of Level I and II help desk support, and being an "engineer" for their latest project of switching from 03 to 08 server, after that maintaining AD and Exchange servers. Will I have a phone for calls? sure, for co-workers, am I in a line for help my start menu is on the side of the screen and I don't know what to do calls? No.

Like I said originally, for those people who come here and visit these forums; don't think certifications are the answer-all, you need to be well rounded. Ideal person? College degree, experience, knowledge and certs.

ptilsen

networker050184 wrote: »

There is a difference between support, engineering and architecture roles. Support roles are the lowest level.

While I think this is generally true, I don't think it's quite this absolute. I have also seen support positions that required deep technical knowledge and paid accordingly. The work is still fundamentally at the same skill level, and the pay is too -- it's just a different role.

Version4

Devilry: Congratulations on your advancement. It is uplifting to hear a story like yours

it_consultant

Devilry wrote: »

I just wanted to let you guys know that certifications are great, you should get them, they can only help you.

Although, I have 8 years experience in IT, and I just landed a new gig as Help Desk Level III. The title isnt the greatest, but it paid significantly more than most system admin jobs in the area even, and the benefits are outstanding. The company is a $30B+ international size.

I don't have a single certification.

I have goals and aspirations to get certs under my belt once I am enrolled at WGU, but currently I am working on an A.S.

Moral of the story: don't think you can't get a job without cert's, or that cert's mean you'll get the job: know your stuff, and you'll succeed. Although, if you have cert's combined with knowledge and experience, you'll probably get more call backs IMO.

I regularly run into people who have not one lick of certification or college education in IT who are regular ninjas when it comes to IT. Provided you can get your resume passed the goon squad (HR), I don't even look at certs or education. I can tell by reading your resume and talking to you whether or not you have the skill to do the job.

I have, unfortunately, seen the opposite happen far to often;

Them "What do you mean he/she can't do x or y?"
Me "Well, they have 1.5 years of IT experience, what do you expect?"
Them "He/she has a master's degree in whatever!"
Me "So?"

Devilry

haha I hear ya. I remember before I hired a guy at my current place to take some work load off me. He had a masters from a location well known school. had certifications that took up almost a page, HR made the mistake of hiring him.

Day one: I asked him to add some new users, he said 'no problem, you mind showing me once, and I will do it on my own from there?' ... needless to say.. didnt make it a week.

networker050184

paul78 wrote: »

I cannot disagree more with that statement. Support roles are what makes any for-profit company successfull, it's what retains customers, and what distinguishes a great company from a good company. It's all about customer-service. As a consumer, would you prefer to do business with a company that offers mediocre service or great service.

Help-desk and support roles are an integral part of any company - it's not the lowest level nor the highest level. In a well-managed company where management understands and appreciates the value of all the functional roles, it's part of the management's job to dispel those types of myths.

As for career advancement, there are lots of areas to grow - management, client services, account management, sales, business analysis, etc.

Where did I say that helpdesk isn't an integral or important part of the company? Sure its important, but face it, its lower level work in this field.

sambuca69

networker050184 wrote: »

but face it, its lower level work in this field.

How are we defining "lower level"? By salary? There are a lot of high paying "lower level" support roles out there, but it depends on the industry. Investment/banking for one, pay quite well.

it_consultant

It is lower level because if you screw up one person's computer then you ruin one person's day. If you screw up an enterprise system; you screw up everyone's day, cost the company a bunch of money, and generally set a bunch of peoples' hair on fire. Big responsibility vs little responsibility. I don't mean to sound crass, its like the difference between beat cops, detectives, and SWAT team members. They are all important to have, but some are going to end up in more life/death situations and need to be compensated fairly for that.

This is why we (I am no exception) start at the helpdesk. We learn sound troubleshooting through and through. I still take a desktop support call from time to time.

networker050184

What it_consultant said!

tpatt100

I still don't understand what these "engineers designing stuff" are actually doing? No matter where you work your supporting "somebody" or "something". I don't know of a lot of positions in IT where you are not supporting something or other. Sys admins still get elevated calls that end up requring them to call somebody if something breaks that is out of their area of expertise. Are we talking about people sitting around working on a Linux kernel for a network appliance vs a level 3 support engineer for that network appliance that talks to a sys admin?

When I was having issues with Checkpoint Provider-1 and I put in a support ticket and somebody from Checkpoint calls me to troubleshoot and requests some files and then calls me back, how is that not support yet how is this guy not an "engineer" because he is fixng a problem?