is the market that bad???

tpatt100

Or that 8 bucks an hour is a temp job that isn't officially temp. They find somebody that needs something "now" knowing that person probably will bail in six months and it buys them time to find somebody better or justify hiring somebody at all.

jamesp1983

Iristheangel wrote: »

It's now been 5 years, 1 undergrad degree, 4 different IT roles, and about 15 certifications since I started working in IT and I've pretty much my increased my salary by 5 times. Even with all the work I've done, I know that I'm where I'm at now because of a mix of pure luck, motivation, and that entry level job.

Spoken like a true veteran. I couldn't have said it better myself.

jmritenour

Putting a little more thought into it, I'm not sure I'd let someone I'm only paying $8/hr near any production servers doing anything of importance.

Plantwiz

@jmritenour,

The same can be said for a landscape crew who pays minimum wage or even $10 an hour to drive a $30K truck, trailer and all the mowing equipment or even drive a bobcat on someone else's property. That said, pay is not indicitive of trust. Probably not on day one would you let a 'new' lessor paid employee assist on a task, but if they have proven themselves, I don't see why you wouldn't. After all, you've trained them so they show their growth by continually doing tasks correctly or clarifying details before they blow-up the server.

Again, our topic is about complaints about a job posting and its possible starting wage...which the OP has responded and clarified his/her position recently.

The caveat here is just remember when you started, if all the people 'older' or higher paid then you looked at you as inferior because of your wage, would you be where you are today?

bigdogz

Iristheangel and plantwiz are right.

There is something to say for hard work, enthusiasm, and never giving up. My first day out of high school I was working 12 hour days for a construction company, working for a hotel restaurant at night, and waking up at 3:00am to work on a garbage truck on the weekend mornings. When I started in IT I worked some long hours but I learned how to fix and build a computer and network with my eyes closed. (In those days you could place your hand on the hard drive and feel the heads park !!!)
Frugal was a state of mind and it was difficult but I never gave up. In my spare time I ran a couple of BBS's which made me learn UNIX.
At one time I had 6 W-2's in one year because I kept my full time gig while having other odd IT jobs. I had to pay everything without any help from anyone. I even had some money to give to one of my best friends since he was married and had a kid but ran into some bad luck with some jobs.

Good luck comes to you when you are prepared for it.

jmritenour

Plantwiz wrote: »

@jmritenour,

The same can be said for a landscape crew who pays minimum wage or even $10 an hour to drive a $30K truck, trailer and all the mowing equipment or even drive a bobcat on someone else's property. That said, pay is not indicitive of trust. Probably not on day one would you let a 'new' lessor paid employee assist on a task, but if they have proven themselves, I don't see why you wouldn't. After all, you've trained them so they show their growth by continually doing tasks correctly or clarifying details before they blow-up the server.

That is absolutely correct, but I'd also like to believe that had someone proven themselves and shown they were ready for increased responsibility, I'd increase their salary to reflect that trust, even if it is by a minimal amount.

Again, our topic is about complaints about a job posting and its possible starting wage...which the OP has responded and clarified his/her position recently.

Right, and I'm on board with the "I don't think this job description really is asking for anything that demands much beyond minimum wage" group. My comment about not letting an $8/hr newbie on my servers was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but seeing as I view this ad as being for a very entry level position, I think that goes without saying that I'm not giving them the keys to the kingdom to start.

The caveat here is just remember when you started, if all the people 'older' or higher paid then you looked at you as inferior because of your wage, would you be where you are today?

That's a somewhat moot point - my salary always is/has been between me and my direct supervisor, HR & finance. I don't discuss it with colleagues, and I see it as unprofessional when co-workers try to "compare notes". I know I'm not making as much currently as I could be, but I'm happy where I am, and am able to say that while providing for my family, saving for retirement, and putting enough away to support them if something were to happen to me, God forbid. That's all I really *want* at the moment, and I'll worry about the gravy later.

drkat

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I do apologize for the rant post - I guess I wasnt looking at it from the entry-level point of view and the possibilities that could emerge from an opportunity.

@iristheangel: You're exactly right - luck, motivation and determination is what will get you places. I commend you on hard work and dedication to your field.

tpatt100

I found the quoted interesting and a problem I ran into last year where my wages were above the current norm

Get used to a life of layoffs - CNN.com

But won't those laid-off HP engineers be snapped up by the booming tech sector? Many will not.
The tech job market is excellent for younger workers, but many of those who are laid off and over 35 will find the market less welcoming. They're perceived as too expensive. The HP layoff will consist disproportionately of older workers. Indeed, jettisoning the veterans is often the hidden agenda in mass layoffs. It's no coincidence that many of the U.S. core engineering openings at HP have titles like Recent Graduate, Intern and Post Doc, all aimed at the younger crowd.

Older people making more and getting more benefits like vacation days are more expensive and in the tech field you can usually find younger more eager new employees. Even if you are awesom at your job your salary might become an issue if you stay at once place too long.

Iristheangel

tpatt100 wrote: »

Older people making more and getting more benefits like vacation days are more expensive and in the tech field you can usually find younger more eager new employees. Even if you are awesom at your job your salary might become an issue if you stay at once place too long.

I feel for those people who get laid off and that's the exact reason why I'm never going to trust an employer to provide for my long-term career or retirement. A big mistake a lot of people made after the dot-com crash and the crash of 2008 is that they sat at home sending out resumes for similar jobs or would pass up jobs that didn't pay the same rate they were previously getting instead of adapting to the marketplace. One of my family members who was over 50 years old had a devastating business crash in the 1990's but instead of doing the usual resume scramble, he turned it around by consulting (Expert Witnesses Directory Database | Find expert witnesses and forensic consulting litigation support experts for all areas. - He was getting paid 20K a month doing that) and starting his own business which later was resold for about 8 billion dollars (which was split between he and his investors). We're not in control of everything that can happen to us in the world, but we are able in control of how we react and adapt to what comes our way.

tpatt100

@Irish

Yeah we just refinanced our house so we can pay it off a lot sooner. I am just going to focus on paying it off and my son's college plan and if I get hit with age discrimination down the road at least my cost of living will be a lot lower. I figure without a mortgage I can switch careers, go downwards in my career to do something else I find enjoyable, etc. I get a military pension at 60 and health care so I am in a lot better situation than a lot of people. I figure I might end up pricing dog food and being the crazy old guy at the pet store but it will be on my own terms lol.

Iristheangel

With all your certifications and great advice, there are TONS of possibilities for you in the future. I don't think you'll be stuck as someone's wage slave when you're older, tpatt.

Wilson502

Iristheangel wrote:

drkat: My area is the exact opposite. .......

Well Said. I actually plan on moving down to orange county after graduation next spring since theres really not much here in Fresno due to it being a mostly retail and agricultural economy, and the fact i want to expand out my goals and horizons.

drkat

I was actually born in OC, and have family in Corona and Lodi, also have some out in AZ.. I've been thinking about going back

Akaricloud

Taking a job paying $8/hr isn't the end of the world and can in fact be a great start. Hell, I started at $8.55 I believe and within 3 years was getting paid $16 for the same position. It was livable, I obtained a ton of great experience and enabled me to obtain a position paying nearly 4x that.

How many forum members do we have sitting here complaining about not being able to find an entry level job? -Take a job like this, put your time in and move on. People need to think past the short term and realize this is a very valid way of starting a career.

Wilson502

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I agree, if you don't have any prior experience, than taking that job is beneficial to getting experience and getting some kind of foundation to work from. I started out with low paying entry level jobs in IT, but those were important in helping get to where i am at today. I may have never gotten the job i have now if i hadn't gone through the grunt of working through entry level positions and acquiring skills while in school.

Darthn3ss

Akaricloud wrote:

Taking a job paying $8/hr isn't the end of the world and can in fact be a great start. ....

If I were offered an IT Job at that pay rate, I would definitely accept, but at the same time is freaking disgusting that we're willing to work that cheap. $8.55 @ 40 hours a week is not enough for an adult to live off of in most places. Unless you're sleeping in a car or a tent. I'm pretty sure at that pay rate I'd be working an over night job full time to go with it just to not ruin my life financially.

networker050184

What I don't understand is why a lot of people here suggest people take whatever they can get to gain experience then the next thread they scoff at low figures and say no one should work for that amount. You can't have it both ways!

Akaricloud

Darthn3ss wrote: »

If I were offered an IT Job at that pay rate, I would definitely accept, but at the same time is freaking disgusting that we're willing to work that cheap. $8.55 @ 40 hours a week is not enough for an adult to live off of in most places. Unless you're sleeping in a car or a tent. I'm pretty sure at that pay rate I'd be working an over night job full time to go with it just to not ruin my life financially.

I don't understand how that's disgusting, it's an entry level job. It's definitely a livable wage and realistically you should be making more pretty quick. I was paying all my living costs AND college tuition while working that job and still found myself with quite a bit of money to throw around on toys. Realistically that's about $8k/year over the federal poverty level for someone single.

networker050184

It's an entry level job in a skilled field though. This isn't manual labor or buger flipping that just anyone can do.

petedude

Exactly. In California, minimum wage is a little over $8 per hour. Maybe they're hoping to get some tech-smart, over-eager, young pup living with parents to do their dirty Linux work. With benefits, yeah, maybe you're looking at $10-12 per hour total value, but that's assuming decent benefits.

While I get the "you should be happy there's an opportunity like this when starting out" posts from more experienced folks on the board, it's not exactly good for businesses to starve people so they can save pennies either. Not all entry folks are going to be kids living with parents-- some will be career-changers (with kids even), some will be college graduates with student loans to pay. If you can't afford to pay decent wages to IT staff, hire a consultant or an MSP, eh?

MrBishop

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@petedude, well said! I wouldn't take that job even if it was to get my foot in the door. Minimum wage isn't a salary anyone can live off of and it would probably cost you more in gas, food, and other expensive to even make it worthwhile. Sorry it doesn't cover the payments of a six figure outstanding student loan. If you have an educational background, you can get offers in the range of $25 to $30 per hour.(I guess this also depends on where you live)

Darthn3ss

Well if you're willing to live in a disgusting 1970's trailer parked in the worst neighborhood in your town, it might be doable. Oh, by the way, the heater doesn't work; just turn the oven on and leave the door open.

N2IT

I love the oven trick! By the way if you want to save money on fuses just put pennies in there. It works the same.

JK

MrBishop

REMOVED UNNECESSARY QUOTED REPLY FROM PREVIOUS POST

LOL, who hasn't done that when the power goes out and it cold as hell outside!

N2IT wrote: »

I love the oven trick! By the way if you want to save money on fuses just put pennies in there. It works the same.
JK

Nice trick, if you're ever in a pinch!

Daniel333

We did this all the time at my previous company . You post the job requirements for minimum wage or something way under rate. After we get no applicants for X amount of time then we could bring someone in on a work h1 visa.

Bottom line is that job isn't for you. Snag a few more certs, try elsewhere.

drkat

I guess I'm guilty of playing both sides of the fence. Personally..... I think $8/hr is an insult and nobody in their right mind should take that position. Networker is correct - this is not a burger flipping or gas pumping job; I've worked those and deserved to make what I made, but if you start asking me to be a bit more specialized well... I do have my dignity. However... I will tell someone to take it to gain experience... it's really a double edge sword because I knew my abilty, but I dont know someone elses' that I'm giving advice to - I'd just be ashamed taking such a low paying job, I once worked for the cable company doing "monitoring" requiring no tech ability and it was paying like $37k a year.. There is better out there.

That's the problem with this country that business is business mentality and that they can take advantage of employees.

All in all in NY - it's $7.25/hr minimum wage (Federal) - now c'mon?? Minimum wage doesnt even buy you minimum quality of life and god forbid you have a family to support.

Akaricloud

MrBishop wrote: »

@petedude, well said! I wouldn't take that job even if it was to get my foot in the door. Minimum wage isn't a salary anyone can live off of and it would probably cost you more in gas, food, and other expensive to even make it worthwhile. Sorry it doesn't cover the payments of a six figure outstanding student loan. If you have an educational background, you can get offers in the range of $25 to $30 per hour.(I guess this also depends on where you live)

If you spent six figures on student loans, have no experience and are applying for a job this entry level(requiring no education), then you've done something wrong. Now had a person taken this position during college, they wouldn't have six-figure loans, would have 4 years relevant work experience and could very easily get a much better position. Hell, you probably could have worked 4 years at $8/hr, have little-no debt and be able to get a better job than you would with a degree and no experience.

It makes no sense to me how people are willing to spend 100k+ for a degree but aren't willing to take a bit of a pay cut for great experience; we all know they're both important. Sure, you're not going to live a very luxurious life off a entry level job like this but it gets you in the door with no experience/education and is a great investment in your future. It's definitely not a position to stick around in for long but that doesn't mean that you can't make it useful.

From a business standpoint paying this low will give you a horrible turnover rate but that's something that a lot of companies are willing to do.

MrBishop

You'll never see me complaining about an entry level position because I don't believe in such nonsense. If you go to school for X amount of years and have X amount of degrees and think I'm working for minimum wage then you're crazy! I don't complain about it, I just wouldn't bother even looking for anything that didn't pay a decent wage to live. I believe with no experience you can still land jobs that pays very well and I'm not one to tell people you need to take **** work to make it!

A pay cut for me is getting paid around $25 to $30 to start! If you don't know what someone's educational background is, don't assume they'll take a job that is meant for some 10 year old kid trying to save up money for an Xbox!

drkat

Amen....

Akaricloud

Well yeah, you, me and anyone else with good education/experience isn't going to take such an entry level position but the fact remains that for the uneducated it's a great way of gaining experience and getting your foot in the door.