Going Over You're Bosses Head

the_Grinch

My boss has been here for two years and for the most part has been walked on during that time. Having been here six months, it getting harder and harder to watch this continue to happen. Today we found out that we will need to complete 13 user moves to various different locations (in one week). Most are quite literally moving from one cube to another in the same location. My main issue is that when we do moves it involves dealing with the University and the phone system as well as complaints that this or that did not go correctly. So one of the moves involves moving a manager from her office (she was basically demoted), moving her upstairs to another office (that may or may not be available given that a director was hired and that will be that persons office), and then moving her out of there once the new office they are building is finished. The other option would be to move her to an available cube in the same office she currently has and then moving her to the office once it is completed. I brought this to my boss, who had a meeting with the "project manager" (I quote it because she just gets told what she should do) and she said no we had to move her to the temp office. I ask my boss why we don't ask the other higher ups if we could just move her to the cube and if we explained the logic they'd probably agree. He merely stated he knows they'll say no and that he isn't going to bother asking.

At this point I feel I need to go to the VP of IS (since he's the next one in the chain of command) to get this sorted out. Along these same lines, they have another move where they want us to move a user two desk over to place someone else there. All this when we have an open cube that this user could use without having to move someone else (especially since the guy travels a lot and is very rarely there). It just get frustrating to have us get walked on with these small issues and it continues into the bigger issues. So, should I go over his head or just grin and bear it?

networker050184

I say never, ever go over your bosses head unless you have very good reason and are willing to deal with the consequences whatever they may be. Might just be the military background in me though. Just know you will not be looked highly upon by your manager after that.

the_Grinch

I usually would agree and it's not my style to go over anyones head, but I just feel this is a long running issue in our department. There is just two of us who do all the user support. If it's not moves that we get no say in, it's users not submitting tickets and then bad mouthing us saying things don't get fixed. Also, it's become us bending over backwards and doing things that aren't best practice (on the IT side of things) to satisfy a manager who didn't think twice about what would be required. We recently had a new user start without our knowledge. Her supervisor (who was involved in the entire hiring process) didn't tell us a thing. The HR person was out that week and never submitted a ticket for the new user setup. The day this use starts, a ticket gets submitted and the bad mouthing began.

I'll be thinking it over, but it gets to the point where you have to question how things are done. I'm all for a little compromise, but here it just seems that it will be everyone elses way regardless of the fact that they have no knowledge or expertise in what we do.

swild

I did just this my first week at my current job and then again last month.

The first time was something that I would have seriously quit over. It was common practice for everyone to share passwords and I put an end to it. Now if I see someone's password written down, ever, I reset their password. I also make them use something that isn't the exact thing everyone else uses. If I ever have to log in to someone else's account for any reason, I reset their password when I'm done. Due care.

The second time I had emailed my new boss repeatedly about the same issues and while I sometimes got a reply, he never respnded to the questions. Well, appearantly my complaint made it from my division president's desk to the CIO's desk. That's about 4 steps above my manager's head. Let's just say that was not a good week for anyone. However, changes have been made and all my issues have been addressed. While that is one scary way to come up with a fix, I guess it was what was needed.

Talk it over with your co-workers or someone else at the University that you can confide in, maybe HR, not as a complaint but just to find the best course of action.

Iristheangel

I wouldn't ever recommend going over his/her head UNLESS it's something illegal he is doing or asking you to do. 99% of people don't take kindly to you going over their head and you might be shooting yourself in the foot if you're going to poison the well with your boss. Even if he/she doesn't make the decision if you get promoted or an annual raise, he still might have enough swagger with people higher up that it could tarnish your reputation with that company.

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

I say never, ever go over your bosses head unless you have very good reason and are willing to deal with the consequences whatever they may be. Might just be the military background in me though. Just know you will not be looked highly upon by your manager after that.

Same here, I have never gone over my bosses head unless someone is going to loose there life. If the Civ world the consequences have to be drastic like lose of big money or lots of data or downtime. I will however let my boss know that I disagree with him offline, but I have is back on whatever decision he chooses. Now the problem with your boss getting walked on is a hard one. Personally I would build up my stock(name) in the company. 6 months is kinda short to do that, but anyways build up your stock so when things do come like that you have a chance to put your 2 cents in with the right person and you may be able to affect some change. That right person is your bosses boss.

the_Grinch

I guess my main gripe is, if you try and they say no then so be it they are morons. But to just say "they'll just say no" and not try is what is really getting me. Most people usually don't realize what is required of what they asked for. If explained, hey for a week this person can sit here and save us time/effort/money (you want to pay me per hour to move people instead of dealing with other more important issues) they'll more then likely will say ok don't worry about it. But to not even try is why we have the current issues we have. Ultimately I'll probably let it go, but if things continue I feel have no other choice. I've voiced my concerns and asked that we speak with the VP to see if we can't get it sorted out, my request fell on deaf ears.

apr911

Not a military person but Ive always been against jumping the chain-of-command.

That being said, Ive never been afraid to use the community at large and my network of contacts to effect change.

From a community aspect, it sounds as though not only do you work in a small environment but this is localized to your department and boss so this probably wont be effective as it usually requires a majority under different management/divisions to agree that something is wrong with the current process for it to be heard.

Using your network however may get you the results you desire. If your relationship with your boss is good and the boss's boss knows you personally, respects you and holds you in high regard then you may have a shot and I consider going to them as using your network. On the other hand if you have a poor relationship with your boss or you are just an underling to the boss's boss, someone whose name they may or may not know, then you are jumping chain-of-command and I would recommend not doing it as it could have long lasting repercussions on your career.

In the 1st instance you are a colleague making a recommendation. As long as you let you're boss know your intentions to bring it up, I see nothing wrong with it.

In the 2nd instance you are an underling operating above your paygrade and that does not bode well for future dealings with your boss's boss or your boss.

That being said, be sure you know all the possible business considerations for why the office-to-office-to-office move with the possibility of another move thrown in there, is required and why the office-to-cubicle-to-office move is not being considered before you bring it up. Its possible there may be business reasons why the user needs the privacy of an office and cant work in a cubicle.

And finally, Id try to involve the user first before involving upper management. Most people dont particularly like moving desks and it sounds like if the new director starts before the new office is ready, there will be a third move involved. This may be enough to convince the user to not move into the office.

the_Grinch

Yeah I'm just going to drop it and suck it up. I made my case and while I believe I am right, if it's not in the cards not much else I can do. Just looking forward to my vacation in two weeks!

Oh, thanks everyone for the advice! Good as always!

blargoe

I know your gripes are not just about office moves, but I will say in my experience that where people sit is highly political, and if someone thinks they are entitled to always be in an office, or if policy states that a certain pay grade always sits in an office, then HR managers are going to require they sit in an office and not in a cube. IT really doesn't get a say in that, from what I have seen.

the_Grinch

Overall this is fairly political, especially when you consider the IT Manager and Creative Service Managers waited five years to get offices that their titles dictate they should have. Part of what gets me is as I said this manager was basically demoted and her new team isn't in place yet. Which to me says you can "manage" yourself from a cube for a week, but what do I know? Thanks again all!

N2IT

Change is driven from the top down, it's hard to get any traction coming from the bottom.

I wish you the best in which ever decision you decide to make.

SteveLord

networker050184 wrote: »

I say never, ever go over your bosses head unless you have very good reason and are willing to deal with the consequences whatever they may be. Might just be the military background in me though. Just know you will not be looked highly upon by your manager after that.

Ah, but we are taught that it's generally okay if that particular individual is not solving your problem. As you noted, consequences may still exist in some form. I ask users to give me 2 chances to address something. If I haven't even started on it or not fixed it, I encourage them to talk to my supervisor if they want.

N2IT

Grinch it boils down to the culture of the organization. You are the only one who can accurately assess the risk of making this move or not making this move.

the_Grinch

True, I've decided that while this is something I would like to fight about I'm am going to let it pass. Even though I feel it is indicative of a much larger issue that we need to address, I'd much rather get my boss and the VP on board since it directly effects them as much as myself. I've always been a bull in a china shop, but obviously that doesn't always work.

drew1d

Iristheangel wrote: »

I wouldn't ever recommend going over his/her head UNLESS it's something illegal he is doing or asking you to do. 99% of people don't take kindly to you going over their head and you might be shooting yourself in the foot if you're going to poison the well with your boss. Even if he/she doesn't make the decision if you get promoted or an annual raise, he still might have enough swagger with people higher up that it could tarnish your reputation with that company.

I agree completely. It might seem like busy work, but there may even be another reason your not privy to. It's true in every job, in every field.


[NOTE: QUOTE goes at the top of the section, your reply goes below. However, if you can reply without a quote it keeps everything forum-like and cleaner to read overall.]

bigdogz

To The_Grinch:
I can see moving someone where he/she gets demoted but other moves can be frustrating. I was at a place where I had to do the phones and computers in addition to taking care of infrastructure and everything IT.
I finally talked to my boss and some of the users who were moving and told them that I can help them play musical chairs or
I can provide better support for these folks and my projects. Needless to say common sense ruled!!!

the_Grinch

LOL bigdogz I wish that was the case here, but most of the time common sense isn't so common. I've even getting push back from the project manager about moving some people prior to the week she wanted them moved. I just ignored her and started the process for the moves anyway. This move is quite literally like a logic box puzzle from third grade. If you recall, you'd have to place people based on certain rules? Yeah, well we have to move people in the proper order because they are taking each others cubes. It is a real cluster...

DevilWAH

I disagree with many of the post, in my view there is nothing wrong with going above you manager if you feel they are not answering or dealing with an issue.

However dont hide it and don't do it with out there knowing, and don't get personal ever!! raise the isssue with there manager not the isssue you have with how they are dealing with it.

In all my jobs I have never had a problem dealing with managment, i my last company for example I had issue with how a mamber of my staff was being treated by the company, after feeling my manager was side stepping the issue rather than addressing it, i went in turn to his manager and then in turn to there manager and HR.

At each stage I told people I was not happy that every thing that was being done could be done and asked to invite the next inline to a meeting with them.

All I will say is if you are going to go up the chain, keep every one in the loop, and make sure you are happy to argue you point.

But Standing up and questioning is what makes there differecne between a leader and a follower, there is a balance to be found. come acroos as cocky and aragent and you wont get far. But if you show some respect and have thought out careful how you are going to go about it. Then there is no reason why you can't keep you boss on side while going above them. And if you boss can't deal with it, then I would suggest finding a new boss.

bugzy3188

Maybe you should consider writing an anonymous letter.

DevilWAH

bugzy3188 wrote: »

Maybe you should consider writing an anonymous letter.

IF you not prepard to put your name to it, you not sure of your postition. In cases like this its normaly quite easy to tell where a letter has come from, and if people do find out then it could go very bad.

I not sure why ppeople are ever worried by these kinds of things, show a bit of respect for every one else involved, make sure you have thought the isssue through carefull, be polite and stand up for your self.

afcyung

The whole concept of the Chain of Command is that everyone has a boss and that if your boss doesn't address your issue you have an avenue of recourse.

Honestly I will say this issue seems not worth the fight. You have to pick your battles and from the small amount of information this doesn't seem worth it.

the_Grinch

No anonymous letter for me, I have no issues speaking my mind and if people don't like so be it. As always, thanks for the advice guys!

paul78

Coincidentally, this happened to me today. It's pretty rare for someone to go over my head. Usually, that's a pretty risk thing for someone to do. But for the most part - I usually just ignore and so does my management it if I believe that it's already a dead issue and someone was probably just looking to vent or cover themselves. Although, I do admire their effort and willingness for someone to stick their neck out.

In my world, the usual response if someone escalate beyond their direct management (depends on how many levels) is for the senior manager to respond - "what did your manager say when you discussed it with them". Most senior and executive managers are not going neuter their managers by encouraging a breakdown in management hierarchy.

That's not to say that going a few levels above management is a bad thing. It really depends on the topic and the issue. My only advice is that you don't want to create a reputation for crying wolf or building a false sense of self-importance. Again - depends on the culture and size of the firm.

For myself, if I have a disagreement over some issue with my direct manager, I speak privately with him. But we generally have an understanding that if some issues beyond his level (or interest in some cases) - there is no reason why I shouldn't just go direct to his management or peers.

the_Grinch

In this case I did discuss it for a few days with my supervisor, which was generally getting me no where. The next step up is the VP because the IT Manager is in charge of the programmers and doesn't deal in the IT issues (moves, adds, and changes all go through the VP). So I wasn't jumping a few spots up, just take the next logical step. But alas, I did not approach the VP and just let it go. Ultimately I suspect we will have a sit down (supervisor, myself, and VP) about the general lack of including us in planning and the lack of the users putting in tickets.

the_Grinch

So a small update of this story. Like I said I did decide (after all the great advice, thanks again!) to not go over my bosses head. But today my point was proven. My boss is sick (really sick actually, 101 temp and the whole 9 yards) so he called out today and tomorrow. Today was the day of the moves so I had to do them by myself. One of the users I am moving says "is <your boss> out today?" I said "yup he is pretty sick". She says "oh, last week I spoke with him about getting a laptop for me for a meeting I have tomorrow and he said he'd give it to me today." So now I have to get one ready, I sent him a quick text and his reply was "oh I forgot she asked me last week about it, though I don't recall what needed to be on it." Hhhhmmm if we forced her to submit a ticket like she's suppose to I'd know exactly what needs to be on it....

N2IT

Sounds like your boss isn't into good practices or incident management. He/she likes to roll cowboy style!

Processes just get in the way

kiki162

Yeah I've had issues like that before with my group. When people say they will get it done and don't. Normally if stuff like that happens, I just say either ask that person again, OR let the users go over their head and complain to someone who might just care. That way it's out of your hands.

What I'm seeing Grinch is that you seem to care about your career and your job, which a lot seem to NOT care (your boss). It's a good trait to have and trust me, I understand where you are coming from. I'm not sure how long you have been at your job, but unless you like putting up with the status quo, I'd start looking for something better...and ask specific questions at future interviews. There's a LOT I'd like to do at my job and things I'd like to get to make my job easier. But unfortunately as with most jobs you come into a set style, and there's not much you can do other than to ride the wave.

I work in a government job, where there's a lot of "that" going on. Personally, it's better for me to keep my job by riding the wave for the time being. That way people can retire and I can move up the chain

the_Grinch

Yeah my plan is to finish a year and then move on. What people fail to realize here is that if they don't put in a ticket, I can not track my progress. Also, come review time (not that I would be able to pull up tickets because our system sucks) I have nothing to show. So while we setup software for tracking leads generated by "salespeople" and enrollment counselors can show call times/logs, I have nothing. Also, people here love to complain about the process for setting up users, but don't seem to understand that we have to go through the University for everything. Thus we hire you, our HR department sends paperwork to the University's HR Department. In turn, they send information to the technology department of the university to begin account creation. They never let us know where in the process they are. From there we then have to have the user pull their account. This will allow them to login to a computer, but we then have to file separate requests for Exchange, Share Drive Access, and then setup her accounts.

DevilWAH

kiki162 wrote: »

I work in a government job, where there's a lot of "that" going on. Personally, it's better for me to keep my job by riding the wave for the time being. That way people can retire and I can move up the chain

Been there done that, but be warned the people who just ride the wave are still waiting for it to break. I find there are more people waiting than there are those that might retire. If you wait rather than act it could be a long long time before you get any where..

astrogeek

Honestly everything you are describing just sounds like typical work tasks. You can't honestly expect users to put in a ticket for everything they want, it may be bad practice, but in the real world people just want to be able to call someone up and get it done.

I've dealt with far more serious issues and still wouldn't go over my team lead's head, it's just disrespectful - and since you've only been there 6 months it would make you look bad - even if your complaints are valid. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, you have to respect your boss and his/her decisions, otherwise you're just playing with fire.

The only exception would be, as Iristheangel mentioned, if your boss is asking you to do something illegal or something that would be in violation of HR policy.