Nightmare ex employer..

w00t

This might be an odd posts, but it has been a stressful time since I left my last IT job. They recently sent me a letter from the lawyers saying I broke the non compete agreement I signed when I worked for the company and have caused 7,500 dollars in damaged because of it and they are giving me 10 days to pay that otherwise they will take further actions. So this is what happened.. They paid me very little and I had an idea to start a side gig fixing home PCs and never officially ever starting anything, never registered anything, never worked on anyones computer once, and they are saying I started a competiting IT company while working for them and used their phone for the business that I never started. It was strictly an idea and never officially started anything. I simply made a logo and someone from my work must have told them I had a business when I worked for them. They were really mad I left and the CEO told me how disappointed he was in me when I gave the 2 weeks notice. And my last paycheck they deposited it and then reversed it and then I had to bug them all day to get the money they owed. I never experienced anything like this before... Do they have a chance to actually pull this off even if I never started any business and I simply just had an idea. Have any of you had this happen before? And do you know how they can prove this caused 7,500 + in damage somehow? It all seems really crazy to me.

xbuzz

Wow, thats insane. I'm no legal expert, but based on common sense, I can't see how they have any sort of case against you. You didn't make a business and weren't competing with them. It all stands on what is the definition of a "competing business" is, in that clause you signed.

I'd definitely have a legal professional look over your case and have them read the non compete agreement, and you'll have a better idea than what anyone on this board can give you, of what you're up against. Definitely a nightmare situation and I hope you get it resolved.

w00t

Yeah I am going to get with a legal professional for sure. I do have a few appointments and I feel like I need to get this off my chest to someone ...

undomiel

You could try going by justanswer.com and see if you can get some advice from a professional on this on the cheap. You'll definitely be wanting to consult a professional though.

lunchbox67

You in the USA?
They may have more to worry about from you depending on your states laws ... talk to an employment lawyer.

You have NOTHING to worry about.

cyberguypr

Also not a legal expert but AFAIK the burden of proof is on them. If they really intend to take you to court they must be able to prove that you were running a business or using their resources for non work related tasks. My question is, did you really NEVER do anything IT related while on the clock? Even if you didn't have a formal business, did you ever use their resources to connect with people whose computers you were fixing? I have a feeling they may be hanging to something like this. It would be pretty ballsy from them to base their claim on hearsay.

An acquaintance of mine is going through something similar. It's a bit different as he actually screwed up and approached a client offering his services for a reduced fee.

w00t

Yep, I am in FL.

I never fixed anyones computer or anything IT related while on the their clock. I simply did not even do it outside of work. I made a banner and a logo and nothing actually came out of it. Maybe they got the banner that I made from a "friend". But honestly, I never did any business outside or while on the clock with the company I was working for and I never once tried to use any of their clients to make money. I even was offered one time and I declined it...

NetworkVeteran

But honestly, I never did any business outside or while on the clock with the company I was working for and I never once tried to use any of their clients to make money. I even was offered one time and I declined it...

It sounds like you fulfilled what you feel is your moral obligation.

I had an idea to start a side gig fixing home PCs. I made a banner and a logo.. Maybe they got the banner that I made from a "friend".

Good luck, mate. Retain a laywer. In the future, if you sign a non-compete clause, don't take steps to form your own competing company. If you can't help yourself, at least don't advertise it.

techdudehere

If you work for a MSP, this often in the contract. However, I believe it is often not enforceable. As an example, a good friend of mine did leave an MSP and took 20+ clients with him. Obviously, this was a huge loss of revenue for them and clearly very silly of them to allow the clients to become so dependent on a single person. Thus, making him provide 24x7 support and little time off actually backfired! In any event, they went through with trying to sue him but failed due to the fact that he did not petition the clients directly rather they choose to sign up his business. As I understand it, if he had used his position and company materials to solicit business then he could have been required to pay damages. Several clients served as references that he didn't solicit them but when they heard he was leaving they came to him.

YFZblu

They'll have to prove that your business cost that company $7,500; especially difficult if you never even made $7,500 with the business yourself. Hopefully this is quickly dismissed in your favor. Good luck!

xbuzz

Also the fact that the company refused to pay his last paycheck, could actually invalidate the whole non compete agreement, depending on what is contained in the agreement in regards to what the employee is entitled to in respect to pay etc.

w00t

Yeah it was a MSP. And I made 0 dollars... I will let you guys know after I talk to lawyer how it goes. Thanks for the replies.

They inputed the check and then reversed it. They did end up paying me the check after I had to bug them all day for it.. So I was paid eventually.

lunchbox67

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They reversed it when they mentioned it to someone with a brain and were informed they just put their hind quarters on the line BIG TIME.
They have NO right to reverse your earned pay ... that was a LARGE mistake on their part. Talk to an employent law expert in Florida.

They have NOTHING against you PERIOD!

They are hoping to scare you ... I know a guy who threatens to sue people and companys all the time with NOTHING to back it up just because he can. Yes, people like that do exist.

They have the burden of proof not you. They have to show not that you earned any amount of money but that you COST Them some amount of money. They need to show you had a client and that work was performed. Any one pay you by credit card or check?

Sorry to ruin anyones day but this company is just playing a BS game. Period.

kremit

I agree with lunchbox. I work in a right to work state too, AZ, and they cannot deny you pay for your time earned. Further action, like go to court? Methinks the judge will fine them for wasting the court's time. Judges like doing those kind of things. Legal counsel is a good deal.

UnixGuy

What a company! Get a lawyer, and you sue them if it's possible! They can't treat you like that!

Qord

Before you put money towards a lawyer or retainer, id suggest you visit your local department of labor (dol) office and talk to a counselor there about it. Bring any pertinent paperwork you've got and get their take on it. That's where I would start.

tpatt100

Holy cow, after all that I almost feel like you are entitled to "damages" in the amount of 7,500 dollars for having to go through all that...

amcnow

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@UnixGuy
@tpatt100

I agree with the above posts. You should seriously consider counter-suing.

Iristheangel

The burden of proof in civil cases is significantly lower than criminal cases but based on what you've stated, they have nothing. They need to prove that you somehow solicited their customers or directly cost them money. I would hold off on hiring a lawyer since this might be dealt with in small claims court depending on which state you live in. Research your local laws and find out. Another option is to sign up for one of those $30-40 a month legal plans. I get it for free through my employer but in the few times I had to use it, I was able to get free consultations from a lawyer and depending on which plan, they'll give you X amount of court time for free and draft free legal responses for you. Some of the plans offer unlimited lawyer services for small claims cases. Might be worth the $30 to sign up.

TeKniques

In Oregon small claims court cases you cannot counter sue for more than the damages you sustain. I don't know about the laws in Florida, but it's probably similar. Also, the amount they are suing you for ($7,500) might be higher than small claims court allows so this could very well fall into another court. As recommended, check your local laws first, but it looks as if you will definitely want to hire some sort of legal representation if this falls outside of small claims court.

lunchbox67

tpatt100 wrote: »

Holy cow, after all that I almost feel like you are entitled to "damages" in the amount of 7,500 dollars for having to go through all that...

Where are his damages?

That's the point of why THEY can't go after him. Where are their damages? Where is the compete? To compete means to take action … print business cards … run an ad … hire employees … take on customers … doesn’t sound like any of that happened.

The term damages has a legal definition and damages must be proved.

They/he would have to go into court with documentation proving damages. Showing that “Our income over the past 5 years averaged 100,000 per month and since he started his company we lost X number of long term accounts to him and our business has dropped to an average of 80,000 per month”.

Where has the company cost him $7,500 dollars? He has no damages here.

Now the state, by statute, may be able to fine the company for the removal of funds from his bank account. This incident would be easily documented. That is where there could be issues for the business. But even that would likely not go anywhere since they replaced it almost immediately. Again, where are the damages?

By the way, no need to pay for legal advice yet. You should be able to find a lawyer who would go over this with you for free. A free consultation. But there will be a time limit so DO NOT waste theit time and DO NOT talk too much and possible waste your money. A lawyer is happy to be friendly and talk about the kids and other nonsense but trust me, they are not your friend and they will make those chats into billable hours.

kgb

Our judicial system is so screwed up... You just never know... Common sense has nothing to do with it, it should but, clearly stuff happens in court rooms everyday that if you try to logically think about it your ears start to bleed. They keep it that way so the darn lawyers can still do their thing.

I'd call their bluff and see if they press the matter.

shednik

I'd echo what lunchbox is saying, but I don't think it would hurt to sit down and talk with a lawyer. I actually did this not to long ago to review a non-compete I had signed due to a new job opportunity that had come up for me. I was there about an hour maybe a little over and they charged me $50 and I walked out with a better understanding of the employment laws for my area. To me it was $ well spent since I confirmed my thoughts about the situation. Best of luck!!

Coolhandluke

Just like everyone else says, get some advice from a legal professional and if all seems OK let them take it further (assuming that "further action" means legal action and not a baseball bat to the knees). Once its all over take legal action against them for stress + loss of earnings for your home business !

That would be fun !

eansdad

There isn't any "once it is over" it is a counter suit. He needs a lawyer that specializes in employment law. Also talk to Florida's department of labor. From my understanding no-compete clauses generally don't win. They could be counting as damages anything from having to replace you to loss of a client. Question...You didn't make the banner on work equipment did you?

DarthVader

Yea,
Lunchbox and Iris are completely right.

They are trying to run a scam on you. Is this a real company?? Civil or criminal, you have to provide some proof, and from what you say it doenst sound like there is any proof.

Get a lawyer and file a sexual harassment lawsuit immediately!!!

powerfool

Non competes are almost ALWAYS non-enforceable, even if you did violate it; they cannot keep you from a livelihood. That being said, you haven't done anything wrong and you may want to speak with your state labor board, as they seem like they are simply harassing you... they tried playing games with your paycheck, and now they are trying to screw with you again. I imagine they are having cash flow issues, or the CEO is just a total d-bag. And him stating that he is disappointed in you?!? Seriously? I can understand him being disappointed in the situation, but to say that he was disappointed in you... that makes me lean towards him being a d-bag. You are a human being and not under any obligation to stay in their employ... you are no slave nor an indentured servant (I am however... damned tuition reimbursement).

Don't stress out about this. If you contact your state's labor board, you may be able to bypass an attorney, all together. In many states, they will informally represent you... plus, the pressure may cause the employer to back off. As lunchbox clearly stated... there are no damages.

petedude

DarthVader wrote: »

Get a lawyer and file a sexual harassment lawsuit immediately!!!

Regardless of what legal action you ultimately take, get receipts of ALL expenses you incur while obtaining legal advice. Lawyer's fees, gas, track time off your current job if you take it. If they should end up dropping the suit, you could likely still file an action, even in small claims. Many times, outfits will send a lawyer to settle at the door of small claims rather than sitting through the actual court session.

jibbajabba

Ever used the company phone / mail to deal with potential new clients / designed logo on work PC ? Surely nothing worth $7500 but maybe that is where they are coming from?

Devilry

It's amazing this company is actually taking the time to do this, sure it is common with big dawg execs but IT grunts? Pretty bizarre. You might have upset them because leaving them hurt the company in some way and now they are being spiteful. Either way, don't worry... the burden of proof is on them.. you have nothing to defend when doing nothing wrong. Judge could even throw it out.

This is not legal advice, but I know from a previous life that non-competes are even illegal in many many states.. check your local laws for an answer or consult an attorney.

xbuzz

Ever used the company phone / mail to deal with potential new clients / designed logo on work PC ? Surely nothing worth $7500 but maybe that is where they are coming from?

If i were him, even though it's an anonymous forum, I wouldn't answer details like that, that could come back and bite him.