Training Requirement

How do you guys feel about vendors that require mandatory training to attain a certification?

A friend of mine and I were debating this. He feels that requiring classroom/training to qualify for a certification really limited the exposure to a certification. He felt that it prevented people who are great self-taught techs/admins/engineers/etc from attaining the industry accepted bench mark of "yes, I know this technology".

While I see his points, I also am supportive of vendors (such as VMWare) requiring training to qualify to sit their exam. I feel it sets a minimum bar for their certifications and really says "Hey, if someone has this exam- at minimum, they have received approved training from a certified instructor" and they can get behind their exam. We all know some people use brain **** for certifications- including those that require training. I am not saying that this guarantees that people who have this cert actually know the material- it just helps to know there is a baseline. I also feel it provides a little bit of extra security in maintaining the value of the certification. Not as much "paper MCSEs" as they were called in the last decade.

Just wondering what the general consensus is on the subject.
"Vision is not enough; it must be combined with venture." ~ Vaclav Havel

Comments

  • dave330idave330i Posts: 2,091Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    He felt that it prevented people who are great self-taught techs/admins/engineers/etc from attaining the industry accepted bench mark of "yes, I know this technology".

    Bunk. Spending $3k to attend training is a very low barrier.
    2018 Certification Goals: Maybe VMware Sales Cert
    "Simplify, then add lightness" -Colin Chapman
  • biggenebiggene Posts: 152Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Dave,

    You must live in a different world that me. It would take me months and months of scrimping and saving to put aside $3000, much less be allowed to take a week off work to attend the classes.

    Gene
  • drkatdrkat Posts: 703Banned
    Oh boy... now we're gonna get the 'save and spend less' lecture from the personal finance pros at TE
    Married to the game but she broke her vows. That's why my bars are full of broken bottles And my night stands are full of open bibles
  • RouteThisWayRouteThisWay Posts: 514Member
    You should save and spend less.

    Just kidding ;)

    I do agree with Gene, setting aside the $3000 would be tough to pay for it as an individual. But, my line of thought was that by these vendors setting a higher price like that- they are more than likely going to get people who have employers that will invest in the training for their employees that will use the product on a day to day basis. That helps ensure that the quality of people getting certified in their product are people who actually use their product often enough for a company to justify the expense- and not just people who have read about it.

    Just my opinion- not sure if it is right or not. Just a thought I had. I brought this up because the same friend wants to get his VCP certification, but can't afford to go to the class and his employer won't pay for it (which makes sense, considering his company does not use VMWare and has dabbled mostly in Hyper-V).
    "Vision is not enough; it must be combined with venture." ~ Vaclav Havel
  • drkatdrkat Posts: 703Banned
    I dont see anythin wrong with the pre-req, however most employers dont wanna invest a lot of coin in an employee. (or they send you to training you dont wanna go to! as in my case)
    Married to the game but she broke her vows. That's why my bars are full of broken bottles And my night stands are full of open bibles
  • dave330idave330i Posts: 2,091Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    I paid for my VCP training out of pocket when I was given a layoff notice. I did it because I knew VCP would mean instant employment and higher wages. A year after the layoff, I'm making $65k more than I used to.

    Shouldn't focus on how much a training cost, but how much more money you could make after training.
    2018 Certification Goals: Maybe VMware Sales Cert
    "Simplify, then add lightness" -Colin Chapman
  • RoguetadhgRoguetadhg Posts: 2,472Member
    For an entry certification, I think that would be a bad idea. If you want to get people at the technology, you should make it friendlier and less intrusive. 3k isn't something easily saved for most people (including myself), all for a certification that may or may not pan out as a good investment. If I worked in the area, and wanted the expertise. I would drop the cash for it. Likewise, I'd attend a CCIE class/lecture. If I'm studying for the CCIE - the chances are I'm already working in the field to the point I want it, Let's make it happen. Better odds of a good investment.
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  • networkjutsunetworkjutsu Posts: 274Member
    One can sign up for VCP approved class (VMware vSphere: Install, Configure, Manage v5.0) in a community college for less than $100. Obviously, check VMware Academy for the official list. Yes, I am aware that it's not available in a lot of areas but there's also an online option. The fee for someone outside the area/state is probably around $1K - $1.5K but it is still significantly less than the boot camp option.
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  • NetworkVeteranNetworkVeteran Posts: 2,338Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    How do you guys feel about vendors that require mandatory training to attain a certification?
    It's a necessary evil. Trainers are often put in the tough spot of justifying their salary, and generating income makes that easier than a vauge, "More people know our products."
    He feels that requiring classroom/training... really limited the exposure
    That is obvious enough.
    I also am supportive of vendors (such as VMWare) requiring training "Hey, if someone has this exam- at minimum, they have received approved training from a certified instructor"
    The bar being, they were able to obtain $$$ from their company's training fund.
    I am not saying that this guarantees that people who have this cert actually know the material- it just helps to know there is a baseline. I also feel it provides a little bit of extra security...
    For less $$$, they could add real security measures, such as dynamic simulated or hands-on labs, which certainly make dumping a bit more difficult. I've seen too many people use paid training as paid rest & relaxation to hold that factor it in high esteem.
  • blargoeblargoe Posts: 4,165Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    $3000 is well worth the investment considering what you'll get back in being qualified for positions that involve working with virtualization. VMware choose to make attaining VCP more exclusive than the "cram for a couple weeks and sit the test" approach that works with MS exams... while that still happens with VCP, the training requirement usually means a people will have invested enough of themselves and company will have invested in the individual, and there will be more incentive to understand the material and do well on the test.

    I do think VMware should come out with a foundation/associate level cert though that doesn't require the class.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 1/29/2018 - Passed 70-743 - MCSA 2016 Complete; 1/13/2018 - Passed 70-411 - MCSA 2012 complete
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  • RouteThisWayRouteThisWay Posts: 514Member
    I think that is a good compromise, Blargoe.
    "Vision is not enough; it must be combined with venture." ~ Vaclav Havel
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