How do you handle certification nay sayers?

NotHackingYou

How do you guys handle people who look down on or otherwise try to devalue your certifications? Statements like 'A test doesn't mean you can actually do something, just that you can take a test'.

afcyung

I usually respond with "If its so easy why dont you have one"?

NetworkVeteran

Nod and smile? Have a conversation? Walk away? In most cases, I don't feeled compelled to "handle" someone for having a different opinion than my own.

ptilsen

I would respond that (allegedly) having experience in something doesn't mean you have any skill with or knowledge of it, but passing a certification at least indicates you have enough knowledge to pass that test. It is not a universal, infallible, or directly comparable measurement of knowledge or skill, and indeed, there will be people who fail/haven't passed a certification that have superior knowledge and skill to those who have. However, prior to employing someone, there is really no other mechanism to determine their knowledge in a given subject area. Certifications proved the person could pass at least a test, while experience claims are just that, claims; a previous employer generally cannot or will not verify a candidate's skill and knowledge level, and even that is hardly a proof or guarantee. Sure, some companies administer their own technical tests to prove knowledge, but if anything, those companies are more likely to appreciate a certification.

Of course, I could also just say that all the lawyers, doctors, and accountants who passed their various licensing and certification tests would strongly disagree with the same assertion. Sure, graduating from law school and passing the bar exam doesn't make you a great lawyer, but it does make you a lawyer. Passing a CCNP doesn't make you a great networking professional, but it does make you a networking professional. (Actually, this comparison is at least a little fallacious since the former is a requirement to legally practice while the latter isn't, but my point stands).

NotHackingYou

Good responses guys, thanks!

(Removed some information)

Of course it's not useful to argue, I was just curious if you guys had seen this and your reactions when this comes up.

NinjaBoy

For, it really does depend on the conversion as a whole and not just that question (as questions or statements can be taken out of context).

Answers can range from:

"My certifications compliment or reflect my experience" to "when it comes to my career progression, I'd rather have something I don't need than need something I don't have"

Everyone has different experiences and ways in IT, no-one can expect another person to do or value the same things as you.

xbuzz

A certification does teach you to do certain things. It definitely has worth. It might not teach you everything to do a job, but if you have a legit CCNA with no experience he/she should be able to set up small networks no problem. Someone with no experience and no CCNA would definitely NOT be able to do that.

In general if someone tries to argue a point with me that seems totally illogical I tend to just ignore them.

"Don't argue with idiots. They'll just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience."

ChooseLife

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

In most cases, I don't feeled compelled to "handle" someone for having a different opinion than my own.

This, +1

NinjaBoy wrote: »

"when it comes to my career progression, I'd rather have something I don't need than need something I don't have"

Excellent point! Never thought of it this way, but this is actually the reason why I (being an official "cert nay sayer") still get certs every now and then.

Zorodzai

NinjaBoy wrote: »

"when it comes to my career progression, I'd rather have something I don't need than need something I don't have"

+1. I Don't think any response can beat that.......

Mike-Mike

afcyung wrote: »

I usually respond with "If its so easy why dont you have one"?

this is what I think when I hear things like that....


but sometimes I will tell the naysayers to go on any job board and type in CCNA in the keyword search and see how many jobs pop up

neocybe

"How's unemployment working for ya?"

YFZblu

I used to have these conversations with people; however I've found it's mostly not worth it. I don't display my certifications, so when it comes up in conversation I typically don't say much.

N2IT

Usually people don't care enough about them to make small talk. The ones that have them still seem like they want to avoid the conversation. It's almost like they are embarrassed to have the certifications. Some people come across like it's a sign of weakness to have them unless you have the utimate in certifications. CISSP, PMP, CCIE etc

But nobody likes to admit they have lower level certifications from my experience.

RomBUS

I honestly don't know a lot of people that "look down" on something that I consider studying for but in case I do there are some good answers on here I can use.

FloOz

great thread! i often find myself in odd situations at work when people look at me funny when i tell them im studying for a cert. luckily my boss like it

Roguetadhg

To a certain point i'd say "Why goto school?"

All you're doing is learning how to do something you previously didn't know. Get more knowledge, hopefully some hands on experience.

If you have a Highschool Diploma, that's the paper you get for passing tests in high school. In that way I don't see a difference.

log32

I never get sh.t from people regarding certifications, maybe because I just certify on platforms I have interest/need in. pumping up your C.V is an easy task to do when it comes to certifications.
I bumped into people who claim they're "RHCE" even though they never took the exam, they just learned it at some IT-Training college. that is ridiculous in my opinion, people like them deserve to get **** from others.

SteveO86

It's usually not worth having the conversation. Everyone has their own views and it's usually near impossible to sway someone in what they believe. (like having a conversation about politics)

Plus if someone opening starts the conversation off like that they are just looking for an argument. Not worth my time to waste, just my opinion.

dave330i

How do you gain knowledge? Years of experience can help, but the best way to gain knowledge is by studying. How do you validate the knowledge you gained? By becoming certified.

Great example of this is driving. Everyone drives, but very few spend the time to learn what the vehicle is actually doing. If you spend some time learning about vehicle dynamics via attending car control clinics and/or reading about it, you quickly realize most people drive incorrectly.

MrXpert

I'd say people who don't have any certs usually say this.
I also believe studying towards a cert whatever it maybe is a logical and valid way to strategically follow a tried and tested method of gaining an officially recognized certification in that field. It will also ensure that you follow the manufacturer's guidelines and models in doing so. As a result you don't end up learning something half arsed or cowboy like.

RouteThisWay

N2IT wrote: »

Usually people don't care enough about them to make small talk. The ones that have them still seem like they want to avoid the conversation. It's almost like they are embarrassed to have the certifications. Some people come across like it's a sign of weakness to have them unless you have the utimate in certifications. CISSP, PMP, CCIE etc

But nobody likes to admit they have lower level certifications from my experience.

True- I don't display or talk about my A+/Net+. I do display my VCP though- I worked really hard for that exam and am pretty proud of it. Not that I didn't work hard for my entry level certs or weren't proud of them. Plus, in my current company, most people aren't technical people. It is a good conversation starter to talk about virtualization technologies and a basic overview of it.

tpatt100

I used to run into this starting out, I noticed I ran into it a lot less as I advanced. There is a point where people don't care either way, I really don't bring up what I do cert/school wise with other employees unless they notice a book on my desk or something.

Claymoore

I usually get them to leave my porch by paying for the pizza.

EV42TMAN

I have a co-worker that anytime we're on break and it comes it either his experience is better then whatever certification I'm working on/just accomplished or the 1 or 2 certifications he has that i don't is automatically better then all my experience. I try to ignore him when he goes on his rants about how he's so great but, when the opportunity presents itself I try to knock his ego down a few notches. He thinks he single handedly saves the company etc... but, whatever I'll let his ego screw him up some day its just a matter of time.

Complete_IT_Professional

EV42TMAN wrote: »

He thinks he single handedly saves the company etc... but, whatever I'll let his ego screw him up some day its just a matter of time.

This kind of ego probably won't help his career.
Also, one way of looking at certifications is that you've set goals and accomplished them, which is great for you your current/future jobs.

pitviper

Meh, you don’t need to debate a thing. The ones that poo-poo the certs are the same ones that have every excuse under the sun on why they never got em.

Akaricloud

Here's what I said during an interview where I had someone who wasn't big into certifications.

I agree that certifications only prove that you can take a test but for myself personally they are much more than that. They provide me an obtainable goal to further increase my knowldge while providing a metric to evaluate my progress. You don't have to take my certifications for more anything than just a piece of paper but you cannot ignore my knowledge gained during the process.

EV42TMAN

yep, basically i decided to go back to school and do a 2 year program(hopefully in 1 year) and transfer to the University of Minnesota. For the first year of that plan i'm staying in at my current job because of the flexibility i have. But after the 2 year degree part is done then I'm look for a better job.

lunchbox67

Akaricloud wrote: »

Here's what I said during an interview where I had someone who wasn't big into certifications.

I agree that certifications only prove that you can take a test but for myself personally they are much more than that. They provide me an obtainable goal to further increase my knowldge while providing a metric to evaluate my progress. You don't have to take my certifications for more anything than just a piece of paper but you cannot ignore my knowledge gained during the process.

What a perfect smack down!

NotHackingYou

Thanks guys. I guess my question really was more about how you handle the situation than the people. I usually just laugh because most of the time the remarks are made as a joke but it got me thinking if other people get stuff like that and how they handle it.

spicy ahi

I try to avoid those conversations as much as possible. In an IT shop, that's right up there with talking about politics and religion! If I'm unfortunate enough to be dragged in to those conversations, I usually just say I study and certify because the company pays for it, and I may be dumb, but I'm not dumb enough to pass up on free money!