"You'll never amount to anything in IT"

Roguetadhg

dmarcisco wrote: »

@Rogue

Sorry to hear that bro. Since your practically mobile have you ever thought of applying to different states?

Meh. It is what it is. I'm applying. But I think my resume, as awesome as I thought it was, isn't so awesome. Or something. I don't know. I thought it might be not enough spread of certs (See Security+). I'm applying for entry positions too. Eventually I'll get a bite into an interview. Then blow them away with my wick-awesome charm and technology geekness that'll make Bill Gates say "Yes." :P

The problem is that while I'm mobile and carry my stuff besides my computer equipment, I don't want to ditch a consistent paycheck if the new one doesn't pan out that the position is no longer available or something.

I try to assume the worse, and plan around the worst case scenario. In that circumstance, there's not a lot of wiggle room.

winstarman

I've had several people put me down over the years but I've been able to convert that negative energy into success. I've dealt with naysayers in my wife's side of the family, former employers and certainly former colleagues.

I think many of us have encountered those people: The ones who have been in IT all their life in the same type of job making the same type of money with no people skills and no drive to do anything more than collect a paycheck. At some point I guess I decided I didn't want that to be me so I worked hard. And it paid off. My two rules for success? 1. Show up 2. Work hard.

BigMevy

I don't really have this kind of story, which initially made me paranoid thinking I was on the other end of this type of situation, but I've never put anyone else down either. I guess I can only say if anyone ever has made those claims, they weren't worth remembering. None of my bosses ever held me down or gave me negative feedback. I guess I've just been lucky.

RouteThisWay

@Rogue

Not to be harsh, but it isn't because of "not enough spread of certs". Your resume was pretty rough, man.

It wasn't focused, it had tons and tons of grammar mistakes, and well.. you got the feedback in your resume thread. It was getting better with each iteration but the first attempt was anything but awesome.

erpadmin

Roguetadhg wrote: »

I'm not included with any network discussions, no planning, not even just to look over. So I don't get help at work. But it is some type of experience in IT. I'd rather be in my situation than be without a foot in a door. I just gotta get a networking job. I'll be happier, I think. Atleast I'd enjoy my work

I'm just going to leave you with this. Take it for what it's worth...

Before you ask to have a seat at the table, make sure your own house is in order.

Roguetadhg

@Erpadmin, I have no idea what you mean. Are you saying I should take care of what I already have under me before going out for another job?

Or as your saying I need to redo my resume - as it's the house? and the table is the interview process?

RouteThisWay wrote: »

@Rogue

Not to be harsh, but it isn't because of "not enough spread of certs". Your resume was pretty rough, man.

It wasn't focused, it had tons and tons of grammar mistakes, and well.. you got the feedback in your resume thread. It was getting better with each iteration but the first attempt was anything but awesome.

True. It was horrible. Criticism is what I sought, Constructive Criticism is what I got The "awesome" part is mostly there just to keep the mood uplifting. I'd rather someone tell me what's wrong with it, so I can fix it than to think I have an awesome resume and it's laughable.

I never really did well in English. I passed. Mostly because I fixed computers in High School. Not such a good idea on my part. Oh well. Hindsight and all.

It's why I'm Looking for resume help. I'm going to follow Irish' link and make one according to those guidelines. I just need to figure out what would make me "stand-out" - in a good way.

...Not in the "I got arrested because I wouldn't give the government the router passwords because it's my network baby - CCIE" way, either.

emerald_octane

Roguetadhg wrote: »

...Not in the "I got arrested because I wouldn't give the government the router passwords because it's my network baby - CCIE" way, either.

Loooollll good one

erpadmin

Neither,

What I mean is, you want to be a part of planning, networking discussion, etc., yet you are showing your bosses that you have instability in your life. Not for nothing, but I don't blame them. How could I trust a guy to deal with infrastructure decisions when the guy can't deal with his own issues outside of the office (which could eventually spill over to a critical time at work, if it hasn't already.)

With that said, the "seat at the table" is a spot at those planning discussions....the "house" (and this is not literal) is your own personal affairs. This isn't meant to sound harsh, or put you down...as I was kinda in a rut myself....though nowhere near your situation. Thankfully, I was able to wake the ---- up before things really got out of hand...

Roguetadhg

@Erpadmin: You have a good and valid point. It's one I did not consider.

I am trying to get things together again by tossing out Rent/Utilities/Cable bill so I can use that money to try to erase debt. Essentially, creating a snowball effect of kicking debt and getting ahead of things again.

I might, even consider staying in this situation. I've adapted to this way of life. Being rent-free is actually quite impowering. I used to spent a good half+ for the last paycheck (Gotta pay before the the first of the month) for just keeping the apartment. Instead of handing money over to someone else for a place that's not all that great, and in a bad area - I can move place to place.

With a moonroof, it's nice to just relax and look up at the clouds. There aren't too many stars in the sky. Too much light around. And heck, if I need to evacuate because of flooding or hurricane - I grab my 2 duffle bags and roll out.

I tell my bosses mostly to make sure they're in the know. I want to them know that if something happens, they know that work has and will be first. If there's a problem, I tell them. If I did it, I tell them and admit my mistakes. I like my bosses as people - and are good people to me. They're in a position where they might worry about this branch office, I do the worrying for them. If the building burns down, I'm without a job! They know I tell them the truth, and will be telling them the truth.

MickQ

Back in school, myself and another guy used to mess around at the back of the physics class. The teacher didn't like us much. One day he turns around and says that we should to the pass level in our leaving certificate (Irish highschool national final exams) instead of the honours level.
We both passed honours and were the only ones in the class who went on to study physics in university.

hiddenknight821

Roguetadhg wrote: »

With a moonroof, it's nice to just relax and look up at the clouds. No stars, too much light drowns them. And heck, if I need to evcuate - Im already packed :P

Wow, I gotta say not many people would take that for granted in your situation. See what happen to that guy here yesterday who flipped on us? He definitely couldn't handle that. If you were living in a trailer, then I think I would be okay with that. I hope you have a new living arrangement by the time the summer heat goes away.

NetworkVeteran

There was that guy who called me 'technically weak' in an attempt to low-ball me.

I'm sure Forsaken could find a question or three to stupify me, and I don't even pretend to know half what Iris knows about the security scene, but weak?!

(To top it all, their final offer was over 2x their initial.)

nel

lfcgeorge wrote: »

I can kind of relate to that, I am 20 years old, my current Manager thought I was older and was surprised when he asked me my age after the first week of working for the company. Some of the other engineers where surprised when I told them.

My previous employer never matched the offer I received from my current employers because he didn't think the wage bill matched the Job Title he given me (in other words he never thought I had the skills to match the money he would of had to pay, is he blind? Lol) .

So here I am, with a 9.5k$ increase in wages and offering my new company much more technical assistance that I wasn't allowed to offer my previous company probably because he only trusted the older 30+ year old engineers in the business.

I guess for my age I have progressed well in IT, now I am going for my 2008 exams then straight into 2012 exams. I am continuously learning, (and wanting to learn at that). It's not about age, I have great determination and push myself to the limits to improve, improve, improve and improve some more. I'm not doing anything special other than being determined. You can do anything you set your mind to in life.

I can certainly relate to this. Im currently 26 and are working as a Network Architect, albeit a more junior role than your typical CCIE. Everyone was surprised with my age. I work on a big multi million dollar project, everyone is certainly very nice and friendly - ive had no issues at all, but i can tell im seen as a novice. In comparison to the other guys who have decades of experience i am. I see it as a challenge - 1) to gain experience and handle this step up and 2) prove people i can do or learn how to do the job at that level.

I can remember a few years ago i worked in a big corp and my boss told me i would never make good money in a tech role. ha, certainly proved him wrong, the decision not to go the management grad path they offered me proved right.

MiikeB

6 years ago I was about to turn 19, getting out of Juvie where I had been since 15, with my GED, A+, Network+ and one Microsoft Cert.

I kept applying for entry level IT jobs etc and after only 2 weeks the counselors in the half way house I was forced to stay in were trying to get me to start "branching out" and applying to stores in the mall/fast food. I was appalled, not because I am against those jobs but I knew I could do better. They just didn't think I was capable of it, and when I talked about hoping to find a job that paid $11/hr or more they laughed at me.

Well within a month I found a job paying $14/hr, which was what they were getting paid. Right as I was leaving at the 6 month mark I got a new job paying $19/hr and now 6 years later I am over $200k a year. Felt good last time I stopped in just to see how some people were doing (some of the counselors were supportive and like to hear how everyone is doing so I sometimes go say Hi when I am in the area).

BroadcastStorm

How the hell did you get 200K a year? I don't know if CCIE could actually crack 150K, maybe side business makes that possible?

Forsaken_GA

As a corporate job, your average CCIE probably isn't going to break 200k, not in an operations role anyway. Architecting is a different story.

As a consultant? Not that hard. For example, say let's say your rate is $300/hr (not unfeasible, before I switched to an up front cost, I was charging $225/hr on consulting jobs). In order to make $200k at $300/hr, you'd need to work the equivalent of 12 hours a week.

Forsaken_GA

MiikeB wrote: »

Add printers to the print server. Just happens that print server is located in a war zone.

Kidding aside, most of the work is that boring, though technically I am responsible for a SAN and VMWare environment also as well as supporting 3 different networks worth of DCs, Exchange Servers etc.

You a contractor, or actually fulltime employed? Because yeah, civvy contractors in a war zone can make some paper. Of course, there's that entire being away from friends and family thing, not to mention the insurgents who want to kill you!

Roguetadhg

You don't have a story, Forsaken?

dave330i

BroadcastStorm wrote: »

How the hell did you get 200K a year? I don't know if CCIE could actually crack 150K, maybe side business makes that possible?

Hazard pay.

Forsaken_GA

Roguetadhg wrote: »

You don't have a story, Forsaken?

On this subject? Nah. I have a natural affinity for this computer crap, I've never been dogged on my technical skills. I think the worst thing that's ever been said to me is that I needed to be more professional and less of an ass if I wanted to really get anywhere in my career, and at the time, it wasn't unfounded. Took me a couple more years to capitulate because I'm a stubborn bastard, but the truth of the matter is that you either play the game, or the game plays you.

hiddenknight821

Haha, you're like Dr. House of networking. Would be awesome to watch a show with your character in it for the IT audience.

NetworkVeteran

Iristheangel wrote: »

Knowing what I know about you, you probably became that guy's manager later on.

It was this year and there was/is a kernel of truth to his words. I'm no longer in a comfortable role where I am the most knowledgeable guy. On a team of CCIEs, I am relatively technically weak, and I have to be hungry. His comment provided a good muse for a month or so.

(Besides attempting to negotiate a lower rate, I suspect that is the effect he was hoping for! I don't suppose he was making offers with a deep-rooted belief I couldn't succeed.)

I don't plan to work for the guy, but I wish him well.

Roguetadhg

hiddenknight821 wrote: »

Haha, you're like Dr. House of networking. Would be awesome to watch a show with your character in it for the IT audience.

I can see that working out quite well, actually. Put it on G4, they need less COPS/PD and more Tech. I could see a hot drama of Forsaken and his newly formed consultants solving STP issues in a hospital. Not that it would be based on real life... or anything. Pilot episode. Yes.

With all the mishaps in security, misconfigurations, troubleshooting, drama in the workplace, and drama in life at the same time - It would work. Forsaken could be the drug addict with an attitude with a teddy bear in his office.

See this is awesome. We have the characters, plots, stories, it could last for 5 seasons. Easy. Best of all, it could be backed by the major tech players. Cisco, Microsoft, Juniper, Apple, Dell,... Send notifications!

paul78

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

I think the worst thing that's ever been said to me is that I needed to be more professional and less of an ass if I wanted to really get anywhere in my career, and at the time, it wasn't unfounded.

Sounds like we are in the same boat But for myself, I separate out the professionalism and being an ass part and use it as a core asset. In general, thats worked out very well for my career. Its quite possible to have conviction and forcefulness and still be professional about it. It was easier to not need to change my personality.

WafflesAndRootbeer

BroadcastStorm wrote: »

How the hell did you get 200K a year? I don't know if CCIE could actually crack 150K, maybe side business makes that possible?

If you are a CCIE with a security clearance above secret, you can make $130-$200K or more depending on your clearance level and experience. If you're a CCIE with years of experience designing and implementing Cisco Enterprise networking including VOIP AND Security, you can make even more in certain parts of the country doing corporate work as a contractor but those usually aren't long-term salaries and are tied to "upgrade and enhancement projects" lasting 1-2 years.

Roguetadhg

unfortantly to get the clearences, the job needs to get it done.

Civilians can't pay for it, from what I understand

gadav478

It's funny watching Karma work its magic. Gotta love it.

Well this is my 5th week here at the new gig. It's my first IT gig. But before now, I worked at a hotel for a little over 4 years. I always thought I had a good relationship with my boss and when I felt it was time to leave I thought he'd understand. I let my employer know months in advance and because it's with the federal government and clearances are involved, a good amount of people that are in day to day contact with me is questioned. I thought the transition would be smooth.

Not the case. Most of upper management actually start sharing their views of my departure to other co-workers. 1 person in particular said that I wouldn't make it and I'd be right back there, begging for a job back.

Sure I didn't have years of experience, but I had a great interview, conveyed a willingness to learn due to my certifications and a decent resume. I got the job I wanted and a multitude of other comparable offers.

Oh, and btw, that manager that thought I'd be begging for my job back was fired a week later after 3 years of service.

Keep pushing guys, only you can decide where you'll end up.

emerald_octane

wow first job and sec clearance required no less. thats good stuff .

Iristheangel

Good job, Gadav478. Haters going to hate but you're in an awesome position now! Keep going!

Forsaken_GA

paul78 wrote: »

Sounds like we are in the same boat But for myself, I separate out the professionalism and being an ass part and use it as a core asset. In general, thats worked out very well for my career. Its quite possible to have conviction and forcefulness and still be professional about it. It was easier to not need to change my personality.

Well, for me, it's a matter of intent. If I'm being a dick on purpose, then I'm not coming from a good place and I should probably just keep my mouth shut.

Sometimes, the only difference between being a dick and being funny is inflection and volume, so a little work at cleaning up presentation goes a long way towards cleaning up perception, without the need for a radical personality shift.