Apple/Samsung Verdict

hiddenknight821

So, how do you feel about the verdict? Personally, I don't like the idea of Apple claiming that 1 billion dollars.

MAC_Addy

That's what happens when a company steals from another company.

Roguetadhg

I figured as much. As much of a Samsung fan I am (2 monitors, sound-bar,...), I didn't see them winning.


I don't know. There's another drama court case i'm looking forward to: Megaupload.

hiddenknight821

I posted this thread too soon. Still waiting for everyone to get out of the courtroom.

tpatt100

Meh all that for 1 billion, all Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, Google, Motorola, etc, etc is providing economic stimulus for lawyers. They should have used that money and build a life sized Voltron or Gundam.

GAngel

A farce and mockery of what a true patent is supposed to be.

mapletune

GAngel wrote: »

A farce and mockery of what a true patent is supposed to be.

mostly agree with you.

a patent is supposed to foster and encourage innovation. Right now, it's only being used to protect profit.

Roguetadhg

tpatt100 wrote: »

Meh all that for 1 billion, all Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, Google, Motorola, etc, etc is providing economic stimulus for lawyers. They should have used that money and build a life sized Voltron or Gundam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJJXQhZ0TXA

I grant your wish, Sir. I'd like to see a working Veritech fighter... Mmm. Transforming air planes.


There's been a lot of people tired of the patent trolling. Businesses built around one thing - Trying to get money for patents. Nothing more. I'm all for paying people for the credit, but there's a line that needs to be drawn about it.

So what if people have similar ideas. It doesn't mean that they actually took the ideas. It's entirely possible to come up with great ideas, from across the world. No communication otherwise... Ya know. Like the Pyramid-shape. But then again, I'd like to see who would win that fight

tpatt100

GAngel wrote: »

A farce and mockery of what a true patent is supposed to be.

Did you follow the case? Samsung did a pretty bad job defending themselves and I kind of think they deserve it. I think the patent laws are b.s. but the lawyers for Samsung defense was basically "well it would have been copied eventually".

The big part of the evidence I remember from the start was Samsung making the boxes look and have an "Apple" feel, my Galaxy Tab had the stupid iPad-iPhone cable, I got used to using micro USB for my Motorola. I don't even know why they had to put a proprietary data cable on the Galaxy Tab.

I think it was a bad case from the start and exposed what probably goes on a lot in all industries imo.

ptilsen

Samsung lawyers failed IMO. Apple's case wasn't that strong, certainly not more than $1B worth. Samsung definitely borrowed a little too heavily from Apple, but I think a more reasonable settlement could have been reached.

Not that I'm complaining. I own Apple shares and when I saw the verdict it was like knowing I hit my annual bonus. I can't wait to see the market close on Monday.

varelg

It was set up for Apple to win this case. How far is the Apple Inc. HQ from San Jose, the jury selection (locals, and then expecting fair verdict?!), the "expert" opinions favorable to Apple winning the case swirling around on the'net just in time before the trial...
Funny how Apple is perceived as an american company when all they do here is drawing up specs for their devices and market them after those devices are manufactured in Asia. Parts manufacturing, assembly, testing... All done abroad, but jurors bought into their role of defending an american company from the giant intruder.
Now US Patent Office announces it will put some of Apple's patents under review in light of the verdict. Better late than never... Patent for a square with rounded edges- really?!
I don't own anything Apple, was thinking about a laptop with retina display, but after this trial probably will never buy anything from them.

Zartanasaurus

MAC_Addy wrote: »

That's what happens when a company steals from another company.

This is what happens when a company steals from a company, patents it then sues another company who stole from them.

dales

Personally I'm a bit fed up with all this bouncing around in court trying to sue other companies for what is really the basic operation of any modern mobile phone, if they actually spent the money in dev instead of corporate-lawyers.com they might have actually come up with an innovation that is worth patenting. I'm just glad someone didn't start this years ago with such patents as flip phone to auto-answer on the old clamshells, or press the hash key to lock keypad!

petedude

varelg wrote: »

I don't own anything Apple, was thinking about a laptop with retina display, but after this trial probably will never buy anything from them.

I'm kinda stuck in far Mac orbit given certain things going on at work and home, but I will strenuously avoid buying anything new from them for a long time forward, that's for sure. They've gotten into the same mode as another big tech company you know: if you can't out-innovate, out-litigate.

boredgamelad

dales wrote: »

I'm just glad someone didn't start this years ago with such patents as flip phone [...]

I know this is taking your quote a bit out of context but I had to share this particular patent when I read your post. Apple's been in the phone design patent business for a long time!

varelg

Finally, Apple comes out with its hit list of phone models it doesn't want to see on the market: the Galaxy line (sans the latest S3). As I am writing this from a phone that is on their list (Galaxy S 4G), vindicated! I knew I got a great deal!

pumbaa_g

In all this hoopla the company who is reaaaaallly happy is Microsoft. The Microsoft Windows 8 has a chance to survive in the market

tpatt100

pumbaa_g wrote: »

In all this hoopla the company who is reaaaaallly happy is Microsoft. The Microsoft Windows 8 has a chance to survive in the market

I think that was the point kinda, Apple takes on Samsung who I think is the only one making any decent money off Android and it scares off all the cheapie bottom feeder phone builders. I bet some of them move to Windows phones or I am better Google and Microsoft just make their own phones eventually.

Besides Samsung must have been teasing Apple when they chose to use the same lousy proprietary cable for the tablets.

erpadmin

What this whole debate has shown is that the bulk of consumers want two things:

1) A device that works AND

2) A device that's "sexy"

Both Apple and Samsung have successfully come out with devices that are sexy and functional, but I would argue that Apple's devices are a lot more "sexier..." [and I hate Apple...all day every day.] That's really how and why Apple won their lawsuit (on top of Apple being an "American" company that "designs" their product in California but "assembles" their product in China...

Microsoft has yet to come out with a product that is "sexy." However their products are functional. However, people/sheep don't want their product to be merely functional; they want the product to scream "look at what I got...be jealous of me." I have never bought into that; I wanted my products to just work [or be made to work as I want it to work, which is why I have an Android phone.] I do have a Samsung Droid Charge, but that was only because that was the best phone available at the time (I wanted a Bionic, but it would not have been available if I wanted that sweet unlimited data deal.) This very well could be Microsoft's chance to come out with a sexy phone that could be an iPhone killer. But if they f--- this up, their phones will be like the Zune...that won't be good.

Personally, I would totally buy a Surface. It has the promise of being a consumption device, yet be a great production device thanks to their physical keyboard that is very light. Today's tablets are not great production devices until you buy accessories like a Bluetooth keyboard, and for that, I could just stick to the laptop. The Surface looks like it would solve a lot of those problems, but MS needs to make that device "sexy" to make the sheeple buy it.

Roguetadhg

Im hoping all the hype we have for the surface doesn't cause it to be a massive failure.

tpatt100

The problem is Apple has an actual ecosystem people regularly use and are willing to pay money into/for. My wife buys apps for our son or herself on her iphone and she can use it on the iPad. I haven't really found many apps I "want" to buy for my Android phone that I want to use on the Nexus.

If we buy a video on iTunes it is on my wife's iMac, my iPad, iPhone, Apple TV (at least recently I can tell). Google makes Google TV releases it and then thinks later if it is worthwhile. Same with the Nexus Q, release (well almost release) a music device that requires Jelly Bean which hardly anybody has. I mean I don't even think Google has people that do actual human consumer research, they announce something and then worry about figuring it out later. Apple releases a device they immediately show a chart how you can work it into your Apple network of devices.

erpadmin

tpatt100 wrote: »

The problem is Apple has an actual ecosystem people regularly use and are willing to pay money into/for...Apple releases a device they immediately show a chart how you can work it into your Apple network of devices.

And Apple is the first company to make that possible? That reminds me of Microsoft's Windows 95 vs. IBM's OS/2 Warp...similar concept. IBM charged a crapload for development kits...MS either charged very little, or gave theirs away. While one OS was clearly better than the other...guess which one won out? Microsoft pretty much made the ecosystem for developers easy and cheap; IBM not so much. And yet, OS/2 was a heck of a lot more stable. There was a lot more too it then that though, but I'm not trying to give a history lesson right now.

Enter today...there are developers that will not do anything with Android because developers want to be where the action is, and that action is the Apple ecosystem--people want easy and convenient. Only in this scenario, Apple can charge a premium because Apple is "hot and sexy." For Microsoft to take advantage of this Apple-Samsung verdict, they need to go above and beyond having functional product. What will make Microsoft a very viable option will be easy and sweet integration of office apps. Android's options are terribly limited. I use Documents to Go (which I [legally through Amazon's free app a day] got for free) and while I can open an Office document on an Android device and read/consume it, the rendering/formatting is not very good a lot of times. However, for everything else, Android is very good for web browsing, email, etc.

Microsoft has a very good window to come out with something that can make them a player in this space, but they can not ---- it up! Microsoft doesn't have to be a supermodel like Apple or a 7.5 to 8.5 like Samsung, but more than cute enough to be a contender and possibly spousal material.

tpatt100

Microsoft needs to make Surface totally free to vendors. They showed up late to the game (yes I know Windows Tablet but who actually used it). They showed up late with Zune, Xbox and xbox Microsoft dumped a ton of money to bury the competition by buying early exclusive access to DLC and games themselves like Halo.

With Surface? Make it free and make the money on the back end through the app store. Heck even the first two years make the Microsoft cut dang near free. In fact make it free until an app reaches a certain number of sales then charge the developer. Provide an incentive to support it by eliminating much of the risk.

it_consultant

I lost a lot of respect for Apple when I researched their actual patents for a discussion we had on this board. Apple's patents are vague and light on engineering. Their patents are akin to if Ford had patented "Four wheeled, front-mount engine," and then sued the hundreds of car companies in the early 20th century.

They are a very successful company but they are not really as innovative as everyone gives them credit for. The iPhone was a game changer but it was far from the first smart phone on the market. The iPad has impressive sales numbers, but rather than being "groundbreaking" as reporters like to say, it was simply a large iPod touch. Even the iPod was neither the first nor the smallest or most efficient MP3 player when it was released. In fact, the guy who invented the iPod had already developed it, almost in its entirety, before Apple bought him/it.

tpatt100

it_consultant wrote: »

I lost a lot of respect for Apple when I researched their actual patents for a discussion we had on this board. Apple's patents are vague and light on engineering. Their patents are akin to if Ford had patented "Four wheeled, front-mount engine," and then sued the hundreds of car companies in the early 20th century.

They are a very successful company but they are not really as innovative as everyone gives them credit for. The iPhone was a game changer but it was far from the first smart phone on the market. The iPad has impressive sales numbers, but rather than being "groundbreaking" as reporters like to say, it was simply a large iPod touch. Even the iPod was neither the first nor the smallest or most efficient MP3 player when it was released. In fact, the guy who invented the iPod had already developed it, almost in its entirety, before Apple bought him/it.

I think that is true with any company though. Microsoft bought most of it's products after Windows along with Google (Android, Maps, Google Docs, etc, etc.)

What made Apple successful in my opinion was they made it simple and it worked. Smartphones became mainstream, before the iPhone Blackberry was popular and I think it was due to businesses giving it to employees that helped adoption.

While the iPad "was just a big iPod Touch" they focused on the average consumer first. Techies always tried to say "Macs are popular with stupid people" is the reason techies should never be in charge of consumer research and development.

Innovate can mean "make better" or "make new". In the case of the iPhone it was "make better" for simple reasons. It forced app developers to go to "Settings" from the main screen and go to "Applications" at the bottom to access notifications or the apps do it at first start.

On my Android the app notification settings can be anywhere. I ended up uninstalling apps that did not even have a notification setting it just spams me regularly with sales offers or reminders. Go Launcher Ex does this I had to go digging for the setting and I don't see one.

Techies like to flame the iPad UI because it is child like but if a child can use it like my two year old then the product was designed properly imo.

I finally got to use Windows 8 and I like it, I think it finally acknowledges the average user.

it_consultant

Microsoft and Cisco are the acquisition kings of the tech industry. Hell, half the start-ups hope to look like a good acquisition target so they can cash out and start another company. There is nothing wrong with that, its the capitalist way.

What I have a problem with is patenting vagueness and then suing your competition away. Samsung did a classic maneuver, IMHO, they created a similar product at a more attractive price. Since Apple was unwilling to compete on the industrial side of the house, they sued.

I have used the Samsung phones and the iPhone and besides the touch interface, they are quite different. I couldn't use an iPhone 4s for more than 3 weeks before I had to switched back to Android. That is my preference and while I woudn't be surprised if Samsung engaged in a little reverse engineering, but that wasn't the accusation.

I think they won because their reputation is that of a pioneer and innovator, but the reality is far more detailed than that. Microsoft had the first touch interface (in 2003, it never went to market) so shouldn't Microsoft have sued Apple when the iPod touch came out? Of course not, but that is the precedent Apple is setting.

ptilsen

Forget the average users -- I love the iOS interface. Android's interface is pure trash by comparison, IMO. I don't want to have to mess with my phones UI half as much as I do with a Windows PC, and the reality of Android phones is I have to do almost twice as much. No thanks. (Edit: disclosure here is that I have not used Samsung's latest Android devices)

But, that's not really the point of this thread or IT_c's comment. Apple patented look-and-feel and sued over that, not on any truly important OS or app interface functionality or underlying hardware or software techniques. Using any Samsung phone or tablet is going to be a very different experience from an iPhone or iPad in terms of actual functionality. The similarities are 99% cosmetic. That's the problem with the patent verdict. It not only acknowledges patents on trivial physical design aspects, but puts a huge value on them. IP laws in this country have been broken for a long time, though, and the Apple verdict doesn't really surprise me. I suspected Apple would win. After all, "The color BLUE is a trademark of the Dow Chemical Company."

tpatt100

I think there are certain things that if a competitor makes it similar it gets easier for your existing customer to switch. For example when I switched from iOS to Android a few years ago after a couple of months I wanted to throw my HTC phone in the trash. I was so conditioned to iOS that relearning simple tasks was annoying.

I "get" why slide to unlock at the bottom gets patented (I think) because similar touch interfaces adopting a mainstream phone's standard makes switching a lot easier.

There also is a point where you can only do so much with a touch phone interface that makes it almost impossible to make something different. Windows 8 phone is significantly different though but Microsoft came along later and tried to take another shot at phones. They knew they had to look different to stand out.

pumbaa_g

I dont want to start a fan war but I personally feel that as the end user I should be able to dictate what I want instead of a company forcing it down my throat. I agree that Apple products are easy to use, have the envy factor etc etc however there are major flaws too
Some which irk me to no extent
1. Battery, why cant the battery change be easier. Whats wrong with the concept of having a battery that you can take out and change? why reinvent the wheel
2. Thou shalt not use this software etc, come on its not the dark ages.
3. You shall have to buy proprietary connectors/software/products to get the full functionality otherwise things will not work or get screwed
4. To buy the proprietary connectors/software/products you will need to pay 10 times the market value.
Dont get me wrong I have a few ipods but I just dont see any sense in using any product which essentially tells me what I can or can't do. I think in many ways I am much happier with Android and the choices it offers.
On the flip side I still have my kidneys which I intend to sell as soon as the next Iphone is launched

ptilsen

pumbaa_g wrote: »

1. Battery, why cant the battery change be easier. Whats wrong with the concept of having a battery that you can take out and change? why reinvent the wheel

I have never felt compelled to change an iPhone battery. If I wanted to use one for three years, sure, but I replace my phone every 18 to 30 months. The reality is you never need to do a battery pull on iOS, so replaceable batter is largely a non-issue. Most tablets and phones are going towards this model, BTW. It makes miniaturization easier.

pumbaa_g wrote: »

2. Thou shalt not use this software etc, come on its not the dark ages.

I admit that Apple's iron fist on what goes on the device can be annoying. However, the fact that the App store is tightly controlled is largely a positive. It greatly enhances security and makes finding good apps easier. Android malware apps are at this point about as common as Windows malware apps, by comparison.

pumbaa_g wrote: »

3. You shall have to buy proprietary connectors/software/products to get the full functionality otherwise things will not work or get screwed

Explain. Outside of the proprietary connectors, what exactly is the issue?

pumbaa_g wrote: »

4. To buy the proprietary connectors/software/products you will need to pay 10 times the market value.

The decade-old iPod connector doesn't cost anything more than micro USB or mini USB connectors, unless you buy it from Apple directly. Also, in my experience the proprietary iPod connector actually holds up much better than mini and micro USB. I've had too many micro USB devices and cables break. That's anecdotal, but my point is I don't see the iPod connector as serious problem, and I can find positives to it.

pumbaa_g wrote: »

Dont get me wrong I have a few ipods but I just dont see any sense in using any product which essentially tells me what I can or can't do. I think in many ways I am much happier with Android and the choices it offers.

Honestly, I felt the same way for a long time. But, at the end of the day, the iPhone does 99% of what I want it to do so well that I would rather lose the 1% it doesn't than switch to another platform.[/QUOTE]

wd40

I do not have an iphone but I used my son's ipod, the thing that annoys me the most is that there is no menu or back button, and for each application "game" you have to look for the settings in different places.

Currently I use a blackberry 9800 - so I am not biased to android