Should I ask for a full years Salary?

DexterPark

Let me explain

I was hired onto a company during a massive in-sourcing of the IT department (Couple hundred jobs opened up) and was working as a contractor for a few months but was hired on as a Salaried employee. It states quite clearly in my offer letter which was signed and dated:

"Your base compensation in this position will be at an annual rate of $xx,xxx. This will be paid on the 15th and the last business data of each month."

Later on down the road when they began hiring all the other people on my team they decided that we should be hourly instead and they all were given hourly offer letters and that's how we are all paid now, I did not get any additional paperwork or agreements. I also learned that some of my coworkers had negotiated sign on bonuses which I missed out on and is my fault for not thinking to ask.

Sadly, this is not the end of my tale.. They then decided that we were going to be paid weekly! Which is also outside the scope of my offer letter, and they promised to deliver a free full weeks check to alleviate the pain of this transition. They did, BUT, they shorted the checked just before the "Free check". I was mad, and asked payroll what the deal was and they answered that they had been prorating all those check before that to be +6 hours and they will not be doing that any more now that we are paid weekly. So some months I get paid what I was making but now I am making $800 less on any given month.

Since they pulled all this crap after my offer was set in writing (I got hired on way before my co-workers and before they made these policies) Should I try to slam them for a full years salary since that was in my offer? I am getting sick of this stuff they are pulling and as soon as I have my CCNP I don't think I will put up with it. Great company to learn, and grow, and I love my team/management but money has got to come first at this point.

It also hurts to know that the actual salaried engineers above us don't have to submit time sheets weekly, and are paid Bi-weekly like how I am suppose to be! The only would be advantage should be that we are now eligible for overtime but since we get paid separately for on-call rotation we have not had a need for anyone other than the on-call to get OT.


Thanks Guys,
Sorry for the rant!!!

DPG

Does your current hourly rate multiplied times 2,080 equal the annual rate on your offer letter? If so, I don't see what the problem is.

drkat

why complain about weekly pay??

astrogeek

DexterPark wrote: »

Should I try to slam them for a full years salary since that was in my offer?

That is a bad attitude to have towards your employer. If you don't like your job, leave professionally on good terms. Burning old bridges never gets anyone ahead in their career.

DexterPark wrote: »

I am getting sick of this stuff they are pulling and as soon as I have my CCNP I don't think I will put up with it.

Also not a good attitude to have. A CCNP certification may open doors, but a CCNP with a bad attitude won't.

DexterPark wrote: »

Great company to learn, and grow, and I love my team/management but money has got to come first at this point.

Sometimes you have to look beyond the pay check to see what else a company offers, advancement, professional growth, education, etc. These can often be far more valuable than the paycheck they send you each week/month/whatever.

With that said, are you really being shortened $800 a month? Have you brought this to your managers attention? My advice would to just take a breather and try to look at things from the company's perspective. It sounds like they are going through a good bit of growth which should be a good thing in this economy. It's not uncommon for companies to have issues during times of growth, just try to be understanding and not let small issues become big problems.

Personally I'd rather be with a company going through growing pains than a company that is handing out pink slips!

snapdad

Unfortunately an offer letter isn't a contract, so you are pretty much at the mercy of your employer. It couldn't hurt to ask for some sort of compensation, but it is probably not wise to make any demands. Good luck!

Iristheangel

Employers can change the terms of your employment. That's their right. Your offer letter means nothing. It's just an estimate of what they were going to pay you IF they kept you on for a year at the pay rate they originally hired you at. They changed those terms so now you are being paid on different terms. They have the right to do this legally just as you as the right to walk out the door legally. Nothing you have written sounds like a deal breaker in itself. I'd weigh all the options before jumping ship.

powerfool

If you are trying to determine what your hourly rate should be based off of your previous salary, you need to take 2080 and subtract all forms of paid time off from that figure and divide your old salary by the end result (e.g. 20 PTO days, 8 holidays, 2 floating holidays. 30 * 8 = 240. 2080 - 240 = 1840. $52,000 / 1840 = $28.26/hour). I just pulled $52k out of the air as it is an even $1k/week. Now, you can calculate your figure and if it doesn't match up, discuss it with them. If it comes pretty close and you get a fixed amount of OT per month and that puts you over... you should probably give it a rest. Your salary wouldn't have allowed for OT, so it would pretty much even out.

Other than that, if you aren't happy, start looking. I wouldn't do anything else. Don't try and make it hell for anyone in the company... just move on.

kgb

Like already mentioned above, if you aren't happy then it's time to move on.

I'm not normally a betting kind of man, but I'd bet $ that if you asked them for a year of salary they'd laugh in your face. Unless you have an actual employee contract you don't have a case. Even then, that requires lawyers and such. Us normal working folks don't normally have those worries, those are normally top-executive first-world problems.

DexterPark

Thanks everybody, I guess I was just a little peeved about the way they were going about this, I had of course gone to my manager about it but there isn't really anything he can do. Which I understand.

When I asked about a "full years" Salary I hope you guys know that means the amount missing from my check every month, right? Just wanted to clarify.

Again thanks everybody for putting this in perspective for me.

YuckTheFankees

I agree with what everyone has said so far.

I still do not understand what you mean by "full years" salary..maybe that's just me

DexterPark

YuckTheFankees wrote: »

I agree with what everyone has said so far.

I still do not understand what you mean by "full years" salary..maybe that's just me

Hello Yuck, by that I mean the amount missing from my checks every month. I now make less money is the reason I am unhappy with this transition.

NOTE: Also, I have added +Rep to everyones posts. Thanks guys for the advice!!

paul78

I am not sure that I understand your concern. When a company moves employees to non-exempt status, its usually because there is a concern that the company is under-paying their staff and that they may be in violation of FLSA.

DexterPark

You know, I am not sure really what would happen if they got audited during that time period before they switched us to hourly. But I do know a large majority of people still are salary and don't have any sort of pay cut.

paul78

That's not quite what I meant. In theory, when you were salaried, you probably made less money per hour. The reason why companies are compelled to move employees into non-exempt (hourly) status is because the company is unable to defend exempt (salary) status. There are a few tests to see if someone can fit into exempt.

In general how many hours were you working before? And what was the calculated hourly rate. That's your real compensation. I suspect your new hourly rate may match or exceed.

When we went through something similar last year, most management would have preferred if we could keep employees as salary. The reason was that our salary expenses are fixed and we could maintain higher productivity. With hourly, it is actually more pressure on our budgets since OT is required and hours are fixed.

networker050184

If I didn't get the amount that was promised to me you can guarantee I'd be making a stink about it. I certainly wouldn't be happy about the way I'm being payed being changed without me accepting this prior to it happening. At the very least I'd be looking for a new job if they don't want to honor the agreement.

Good luck and hopefully you get it worked out.

bigdogz

@DexterPark
I had worked for a small company that started to change how I got paid and my job title. This started to include sales. Although I did have some sales experience, most of my background was technical. The pay time of the week/month changed on me 3 times during the 8+ months I was there and I finally had enough and found a new job.
I had left on good terms and the company wanted me back. I told them that I just had to move on to bigger things.

MickQ

Go by the contract that was entered into by both yourself and them. I'm not sure what binding the "offer letter" has.
Other than what others here have already said, if there is a difference, go look for another job - that doesn't mean that you'll leave the current one, but just have something to be able to move on to if needed.
Oh, and get someone in HR to explain why and where the difference is in a professional manner, not a spoilt brat manner.

jahsoul

I agree with the minority voice here (networker050184). What stuck out to me when I read the post is he is losing about $800 a month. That is not chump change by any means. And I also look at it like this, you steal $1 from the company, you are fired; they take $800 a month from you and you are to be ok with it? I don't buy that.

Still, be professional about it because it just may be an accounting error caused by the pay code getting changed like that.

Iristheangel brought up a good point that takes me back to my days working at an automobile manufacturer. We used to get shafted all the time and management had the, "bend over or leave" type attitude. People who aren't in a union can talk bad about them, but nothing like this happens in a union. Both parties must follow what was agreed on at all times but that is a different discussion for a different day, plus I highly doubt that most IT jobs are unionized (unless you work for the state)

ptilsen

The situation still isn't clear to me. Are you actually making less money over the course of a year as a result from being changed from salaried to hourly? Do you work less (or, rather, have a limit on how much you work to avoid overtime) but earn less as a result?

Obviously if they have decreased your pay that is a serious issue and should be asking for more money. If this is just an issue of pay period lengths changing and resulting in a less consistent monthly income (e.g. number of weeks in a month affects that month's income), then I don't see any issue. You should be able to budget around a pay period pretty easily.

networker050184

ptilsen wrote: »

If this is just an issue of pay period lengths changing and resulting in a less consistent monthly income (e.g. number of weeks in a month affects that month's income), then I don't see any issue. You should be able to budget around a pay period pretty easily.

I see plenty issue with this and would not be happy one bit. If I agree to work for you and you agree to pay me on a certain schedule then you better stick to it. I don't understand why people don't see employment as a two way street. They promise certain incentives in exchange for your work. If they can't keep up their end of the deal then neither should you. If it were me I'd ask them to fix pay to the original deal or I'd be looking for a new job.

Akaricloud

If you're making less total per year now than what you accepted in your offer then you have every right to get angry, bring it up and get your pay increased to at least what it was before.

If you're just complaining about a different pay schedule then I don't see how you have any ground to stand on. You can't expect everything to stay 100% the same during the time of your employment. Why is this an issue for you? -Why does it bother you that your pay schedule is more consistant now by being weekly? From an employer stand point why would they want to keep someone around who can't adapt to such a simple change?

ptilsen

networker050184 wrote: »

I see plenty issue with this and would not be happy one bit. If I agree to work for you and you agree to pay me on a certain schedule then you better stick to it. I don't understand why people don't see employment as a two way street. They promise certain incentives in exchange for your work. If they can't keep up their end of the deal then neither should you. If it were me I'd ask them to fix pay to the original deal or I'd be looking for a new job.

I see it as a two-way street, but I don't see the pay period as a big deal. It sucks that it changes, but I don't see weekly vs bi-weekly vs semi-monthly vs monthly as a huge deal. An actual change in the amount paid over a year, conversely, is a big deal to me.

efripp

Sounds like you've been inadvertently shorted a fair bit of money. Like the others say, I wouldn't jump off of the deep-end, but it sounds like a good argument. I'd rephrase that in the form of a letter as a pleading, and get it over to upper-management instead of payroll. GL! I've been there.

Drovor

ptilsen wrote: »

I see it as a two-way street, but I don't see the pay period as a big deal. It sucks that it changes, but I don't see weekly vs bi-weekly vs semi-monthly vs monthly as a huge deal. An actual change in the amount paid over a year, conversely, is a big deal to me.

Agreed. I think in this situation the OP is saying he is being paid less now. I would bring it up in a professional manner, it could have possibly been an honest error in the transition.

networker050184

ptilsen wrote: »

I see it as a two-way street, but I don't see the pay period as a big deal. It sucks that it changes, but I don't see weekly vs bi-weekly vs semi-monthly vs monthly as a huge deal. An actual change in the amount paid over a year, conversely, is a big deal to me.

What I see as a big deal is that they are changing something previously agreed upon without at least consulting him first (from what I'm gathering here anyway). If the OP just decided he didn't want to work Mondays anymore and was only going to come in on Tuesday through Saturday instead I'm sure they would have a problem with it even if he worked the same amount of hours. Something like salary vs hourly is a huge decision and not something to just be changed lightly.

I know there are some things that are unavoidable in business like this, but that doesn't mean someone should just suck it up. IMO if you find an employer that treats you well and you in turn work hard for them you will be much happier in your career.

DexterPark

Thanks all for the support!

To clarify I am now making less money this year. While I don't like that I am paid weekly, it is what it is. The issue is the amount I make ina month is $800 lower then what I was making. I did speak to payroll as soon as I noticed this (and yes I did so calmly and professionally.) and they said that on some months I would make more (What I was making) and most months I would make less but that it would still be the same amount a year as when I was salary. However,this is not true.


I hope that clears it up if not don't worry about it.


Salary amount = Annual amount divided by 24 checks (twice a month)
Hourlyamount = annual amount divided by 52 checks (four times a month)


7 months of Salary pay + 5 months of hourly pay does not equal my Annual amount.




They prorated my salary amount so that it would equal my annual amount divided by 24 checks. but I took a look at my pay checks before and after I did the math based on the GROSS amount and noticed that the hourly rate WOULD come out the same if I received 52 checks a year but I am not receiving 52 checks this year. I took the GROSS Salary I made up till this point and added it to the GROSS hourly I will make this year and it is short of what I should be making. Next year I will get 52 checks (if I stay that long) and it will be the same but this year they screwed me and will not fix it.


Again thanks to all for support/advice!

ptilsen

I would discuss it with a lawyer or your state's department of labor. You're going to get varying opinions on an Internet forum as to our interpretation of local and federal laws. I would make sure you are aware of your rights in this matter.

If you have no legal recourse, then just find a different job. There's no question to it. If this employer is actually reducing your pay out of the blue and will not restore it to what it should be, you just don't want to work there.

m3zilla

DexterPark wrote: »

Thanks all for the support!

Salary amount = Annual amount divided by 24 checks (twice a month)
Hourlyamount = annual amount divided by 52 checks (four times a month)


7 months of Salary pay + 5 months of hourly pay does not equal my Annual amount.

Since you said you'll be making the same amount next year, I assume your pay rate is the same? I'm not an accountant by any stretch, but if you were making 60,000

60,000/24 (assuming it's semi-monthly), you get 2500 each check. 2500 * 14 (7 months) = 35000
28.85 (hourly rate) * 40 hr/week, you get 1153 a check. 1153 * 20 = 23076

35000 + 23076 = 58076...I don't understand how you're getting $800 less a month just because they went from semi-monthly to weekly

DexterPark

Hello M3zilla,
That is an excellent breakdown of what should have happened, and very close too! Since we are knee deep into the discussion I might as well say it. I agreed to 65K and now this year I will only be getting somewhere around 60K. They have made so many changes to the way we get paid but I also don't think that transitioning from semi-monthly to weekly is the reason why I am making less. It has something to do with going from salary to hourly.

MiikeB

I would probably wait until you get your W-2 in January then take that and the offer letter and ask to sit down with someone from HR. It will save you the hassle of having to explain these numbers to them.

kgb

If you are indeed 100% hourly the reason your checks will/can vary is due to the amount of working hours in the months vary some. For example, February is a short month and May is a long month.

You mentioned before I think you are on a rotating OT shift? OT will skew the numbers as well. Maybe your salary amount included a year of that rotating on-call work? Since you haven't performed that extra work yet for the rest of the year your yearly amount at the moment is low... Just grasping at straws a little...