CCNA (LIVING DOCUMENT) with NETCAD EXPLORATION IV

Illumanati

I am going to be doing a Cisco Exploration class to class(and everything in between) living document for my Cisco IV Exploration 4.0 class in combo with test prep for CCENT/ICND2, starting Monday September 17.

I already went through Academy in 2003 so this is just a refresh/test prep push. I plan on being introduced to the technology with online curriculum/instructor then reading that chapter in the Companion book and finally the chapter in the test prep ICND1/2 books. I will be documenting mainly the Exploration 4.0 results in this document but there could be elements of the exam prep since my goal is certification on top of class...

NetworkVeteran

Good luck with your studies and living document.

Illumanati

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Good luck with your studies and living document.

Thank you so much. I plan on chronicling my 2 day a week Exploration 4.0 class. So people realize it is Cisco IV- Accessing the WAN M-W I'm referencing, when I post regarding the class only, I will have for example: Cisco Exp 4.0, Monday September 17 PPP etc. but when it isnt related to the class, I will preface it with whatever source or topic I am working on for CCENT.

This is for the beginner with no certs like me but keep in mind I have already attended and completely Network Academy with straight As the Cisco Networking Academy 10 years ago however I will be start from beginning so all beginners, please participate along with me. Eventhough this is a Cisco IV refresh which is heavy ICND2 Wan topics, I will be simultaneously bringing up ICND1 topics and discussing those with you and everyone.

The first thing I did this morning before the class at night is brush up on Subnetting. I would like everyone who is following this to do the same. You don't have to be exam ready but just know how to get subnetworks and hosts.

keep the synergy rolling beginners!! Day 1 is later on this afternoon and update forthcoming!! Put this thread on lock!

Update: Day 1 was spent introducing WANS and why we need them and things about it like cost and speed. Also, HDLC and PP were brought up as well Circuit switched versus Packet switched.

Illumanati

I finally did my first Packet Tracer lab yesterday. It was pretty exciting and I didn't need to read the tutorial but that's on my hit list. Just gotta fill my hit list to the brim with these ICND2. As we speak, I am thinking about what exactly we did in the lab. I saw Vlan tags numbers and we setup 3 routers and some switches. We actually got everything working but VLAN tagging was new to me, the rest was just setting the encapsulation and setting clock rate between the 3 routers and switches. I'm thinking the VLAN tagging was related to the switches and the encapsulation was between the PPP serial connections.

For those not familiar with what I am trying to accomplish with this thread. It's to take a beginners point of view from a ICND2 WAN standpoint and I think it could benefit those who have covered some CIsco classes and are interested in what to look for as far as beginners Accessing the WAN which is directly related to ICND2.

Bottom line: to a lab on a topic to really learn something because if you're just reading, you will not only not fair well on a hands-on exam like CCENT/ICND2 but also you simply won't learn the theory either by just reading. this is what we should all fear as we're studying for an exam. you have to first learn the theory and nuts and bolts before you can attempt to have the cert test mindset. So basically I am starting from the 1st lab in Cisco IV - Accessing the WAN and it was quite an eye opener! These NetAcad have changed a LOT in terms of what they expect and go through. I would say take it as credit level and not in continuing ed because in cont end, you have to be self-accountable.very little lecture and no hand holding in the labs, actually no assessments at all so its all based on self-interest.

(FYI: this is not going to be like a journal at all, I will just be posting from time to time, next time when I have something more substantial and it will be infrequent to let the beginner's mind soak in because it takes times to learn new technology)

Illumanati

Update: The Academy covers a LOT of ground in terms of detail and it is very difficult to wrap your mind around and also to digest ALL OF IT. In retrospect, I have new found respect for all cert guides and I no longer find it dry at all. Apparently, all of it is dry and it is just a matter of getting through it with a proven system of reading, labbing and test prep. Let your success in this process spark your interest that is they key and let all the other excuses slide off. It took me enrolling in this class to realize the cert guides are actually not long. I am going to study the cert guides more now and use these academy stuff lightly or for more details depending on the situation.

guys, to those pursuing this stuff especially non-CCENTS, you HAVE to get through this stuff and understand it and the cert books give you a shortcut despite the pages. It's not the pages but your ability to get through it that is the key and once you see hoe long the academy stuff is, you have a better appreciation of the study-guides- they really do GUIDE you while the academy is just a lof of stuff with no guide for exam. more importantly, the subsequent interest and enthusiasm is something real you should feel and should fuel and feed you to finish!

I used to complain about the cert books, saying they were dry and difficult and too long but they are actually shorter, easier to comprehend then this academy material. Granted the academy material is trying to cover everything but in turn, your interest has to be high to get the most out of it. If anyone out there is having trouble getting through a cert book, you should consider this lesson I explained and get on with it. If it take you enrolling in a cisco course to see how much harder or how much more material it is covering versus the cert guide, I would do it.

Whatever it takes to pass the exam especially the harder ICND2. get it done. lab, relax, learn, pass

Illumanati

ok guys, quick update. the class has approached little less the half way done. This class started a week late and is this instructor chose to deliver content at a very very comfortable rate..translation: its going slow but in a GREAT way for me anyway! It has given me a chance or opportunity to go at a slower rate and take my time without any rush. So far, we have only covered PPP, OSPF and Frame Relay with VLSM and Access lists is there but we have not covered those! To illustrate, I am looking at Cisco Press/Odom ICnd2 book and it starts with VTP and then STP which actually were covered in Cisco III. Wide Area Networks which is what this Cisco IV is supposed to cover doesn't start until page 431! wow 400 pages on four topics basically? nice work if you can get it odom! Conclusion: let me tell you that Odom is definitely overkill based on how easy it was for instructor to teach so far but it's all in the name of momentum for him I guess. your results may vary but shouldn't if you want to succeed with the study guides! All I(we) have to do is do some labs on VTP and STP and we're basically caught up! The goal is for me now is to use my time/love/resources in my life to get progressively better "progress reports" this exploration class is build on taking the composite exam but I will most likely do the two part!

The problem: What I am seeing is these study guides "talk too much" before or without giving you the reader adequate or ample opportunities to succeed in learning a base or basic skill or concept. The other thing is you can't get confidence or build it like you could in a class with other people because you are doing self-study. This is what I learned by taking a class is I can manufacture and give confidence to myself and it is as genuine as if you were in a class. My message to everyone is get the gist or basics and give yourself ample confidence each time and do a quick lab of whatever tech you're talking about fore example, Frame relay or VTP or STP etc and your reward is purposefully giving yourself the confidence and then move on. Don't mess with all the detail and verbosity of these authors study guides without succeeding in small doses and giving yourself confidence. To do this, you have to get really good with picking out salient or crucial points among all the overload of detail. This is what the instructor does that is better then the study guides. With the study guides, you have to find the important things to START with and lab those and then worry about the details. The books don't do a job of this AT ALL and so it is up to you if you get this message!

Conclusion: Pick a major technology in your exam objective and lab it quickly and then celebrate. Keep doing this with the details but only after you get that initial confidence that you know something. This is what is missing in the labs that I see instructor led courses do better and that is dispensing confidence as you go...

Illumanati

Bulleted list of items learned by taking instructor led Net Acad course:

1. it makes studying from a study guide "easier to swallow" by getting straight to what is on the exam versus "the world. much more micro versus the netacad macro.
2. allows you to guage when to stop and celebrate as you continue learning thru a process
3. allows you to guage when to apply self-confidence for yourself as you learn
4. it is what it is..not a clincher for getting the cert but a tool for a better perspective on of gauging or guiding your own progress
5. actually allows you to like authors you thought were too verbose but then poses a challenge on when to stop and give self-confidence you get automatically as you progress in a class.
6. bring in the human factor into the picture which depending on how the class is taught (high-school -ish versus adult) can be a positive or negative.


the most important thing from the above is that taking an instructor allows you to build self confidence quicker and subsequently allows you to take on a study guide knowing that they are more targeted but also overkill. basically, allows you to discern what is more important to learning the "base technology" versus extra details that may or may not be important.

lastly, this class is about half way completed so the above facts were critical for me to pick up on because:

1. I got my ICND2 Cisco press book and am now using it, minus all the excess, to really utilize this slow progressing class the best the rest of the way!
2. the above is the most compelling fact i picked up to this date in regards to taking an instructor led course and how to use it best with self-study study guides!

Illumanati

I hope I got the point across to really take your time but also

1. take credit and remind yourself to give yourself confidence as you progress because in the classroom, this is how it is done and you don't get that in self-study. Also,

2. learn how to pick up important things to make it work versus extra details. I think this is where odom fails or where the student isn't aware he must apply as they study in isolation.

I believe the above two points are the top 2 reasons why people, including myself, have has so much dissatisfaction and disappointment with study guides and what they don't provide alone.

I think most people want to know or are keenly interested in how to make their 600-800+ page study guides more effective or simply to get them open and how to put them to best use. I really think that the self-study process can be challenging and the whole point or purpose of the above was to really help those who are challenged with progress like I myself have been in the past when it came to specifically trying to self-study and pass through study guides!

Illumanati

today's class news: My instructor's just informed me that the Odom Cisco press icnd2 book is pretty much the entire composite exam. Another words, you can pretty much study for the composite exam with the icnd2 book so i am immediately studying icnd2 book and shooting for composite.

Patel128

Wait.. So you are skipping ICND1 material all together? Do you already know the ICND1 material?

zrockstar

Illumanati wrote: »

today's class news: My instructor's just informed me that the Odom Cisco press icnd2 book is pretty much the entire composite exam. Another words, you can pretty much study for the composite exam with the icnd2 book so i am immediately studying icnd2 book and shooting for composite.

This is not true. If you are studying for the composite out of the ICDN2 book alone and don't know your ICND1 material cold, I am predicting disappointment in your near future.

Patel128

That is what I was thinking. I'd like to know what the teacher meant, or if he/she was completely BSing.

Illumanati

zrockstar wrote: »

This is not true. If you are studying for the composite out of the ICDN2 book alone and don't know your ICND1 material cold, I am predicting disappointment in your near future.

To Clarify: if you want your CCNA, your ccna is "going to come" from the ICND2 book but I did not say to the exclusion of the ICND1 book. You will 1 question each from most of the ICND1 concepts like for example OSI or static route or cli commands or router setup and maintenance etc but if you know your ICND2 book inside out, you will find the ICND1 questions easy because you will review a lot of the ICND1 concepts anyway when you study for ICND2 so a lot of it will be review anyway. Also, a lot of the heavy simulation question for Access lists, Frame Relay etc are in the ICND2 book and sim questions carry more weight then multiple-guess.

You can take the two exam route and get MORE questions regarding ICND1 or take the composite and get 1 or 2 at the most of ICND1 questions. I am trying to help those who want to streamline their study more and maybe already have IT/study experience to where they know the OSI model already and don't really need to do hardcore study on it versus something complex. For example, we covered Access lists yesterday and there is a lot more thinking involved in setting those up and troubleshooting then there is to understand OSI question, for example. If you take the composite exam, which question will carry more weight? 1 or 2 OSI type questions pr basically 1 question from each ICND 1 topic which are easy peasy or a difficult access list setup.

zrockstar

Sorry, I still disagree. I know from my own composite test of a couple of ICND1 topics that would destroy your chances of passing if you didn't know them. Your CCNA doesn't come from ICND2, it comes from ICND2 and ICND1. If that was the case then they could eliminate the composite and just give people the option to pass only the ICND2 and get their CCNA.

Patel128

I agree with zrockstar. I was under the impression that the questions on the composite were a mix of ICND1 and ICND2 questions, from a test bank of sorts. I see ICND1 as a foundation and everything builds off of that. Even if it was not on the exam I'll still want to know it for you job.

Also, a lot of the heavy simulation question for Access lists, Frame Relay etc are in the ICND2 book and sim questions carry more weight then multiple-guess.

I thought that the points of the questions were all different?

zrockstar

Patel128 wrote: »

I thought that the points of the questions were all different?

Nobody knows how the questions are weighted. Also Illumanati, if your instructor is telling you what sims are on the test he is breaking the NDA. From his advice you have shared here, it sounds like he is kind of unethical.

Patel128

@zrockstar that's what I thought, but I was just making sure. Thanks

Illumanati

zrockstar wrote: »

Nobody knows how the questions are weighted. Also Illumanati, if your instructor is telling you what sims are on the test he is breaking the NDA. From his advice you have shared here, it sounds like he is kind of unethical.

No, the point he and I were trying to share is based on the Table of Contents of the ICND2 book and from what he remembers the CCNA exam had back when he took it, he felt that someone with some basic networking background can focus on the ICND2 book and then fill in the blanks or gaps with ICND1 but this is in reference to the composite ONE exam that it was majority ICND2 without giving me any particular questions that are on the test.

networker050184

zrockstar wrote: »

Nobody knows how the questions are weighted. Also Illumanati, if your instructor is telling you what sims are on the test he is breaking the NDA. From his advice you have shared here, it sounds like he is kind of unethical.

Agreed. If your instructor is sharing info from the exam he is breaking the NDA he agreed to when he took the exam.

Please refrain from posting any of this information on the forums.

Patel128

Lets say a person has a Network+(basic network knowledge) and want to get a CCNA. Would they just hop right into ICND2? To me ICND1 is foundation, and needed to be successful at your job. Sure, lets say this person does pass the composite, if a employer says that CCNA knowledge is needed that probably includes ICND1 and ICND2 concepts. If you do not have a good foundation in my opinion you would just look like a brain dumper. I really think you need to revise your plan and study ICND1 topics first.

Legacy User

Whats the living document?

Illumanati

Patel128 wrote: »

Lets say a person has a Network+(basic network knowledge) and want to get a CCNA. Would they just hop right into ICND2? To me ICND1 is foundation, and needed to be successful at your job. Sure, lets say this person does pass the composite, if a employer says that CCNA knowledge is needed that probably includes ICND1 and ICND2 concepts. If you do not have a good foundation in my opinion you would just look like a brain dumper. I really think you need to revise your plan and study ICND1 topics first.

The only foundation ICND1 has is subnetting because you need to know that for almost everything below. Everything else will be RE-TAUGHT when you go through the ICND2 book so it's not foundational if you are re-taught it in ICND2. Get it? I'm looking at the table of contents for ICND2 and I will list them now:

Chap 1 Virtual LANs
Chapter 2 Spanning Tree Protocol
Chapter 3 Troubleshooting LAN switching
Chapter 4 IP routing: Static and Connected Routes
Chapter 5 Variable Length Subnet Masks
Chapter 6 Route Summarization
Chapter 7 Basic IP Access Control Lists
Chapter 8 Advanced IP Access Control Lists
Chapter 8 Advanced IP Access Control List
Chapter 9 Troubleshooting IP Routing
Chapter 10 Routing Protocol Theory
Chapter 11 OSPF
Chapter 12 EIGRP
Chapter 13 Troubleshooting Routing Protocols
Chapter 14 Point to Point WANs
Chapter 15 Frame Relay Concepts
Chapter 16 Frame Relay Configuration
Chapter 17 Virtual PRivate Networks
Chapter 18 Network Address Translation
Chapter 19 IP version 6

The basics are reintroduced here that were introduced in ICND1 and the majority of your simulations are going to come from the above, its common sense. The sims are weighted heavier. Do you really think you are going to have more simulations on ICND1 subjects like the OSI or creating basic routes etc versus above? No, you will get 1 question from each of those ICND1 topics. This is composite exam so it is true what they say, the composite will have less questions overall as has been stated before.

Patel128

1) There is no way for you to know that you will get only 1 question from each ICND1 topic.
2) ICND2 does not reteach the ICND1 topics. That makes no sense.
Nevertheless I am just trying to help, but it seems you are set on your path. Hope you pass.

Illumanati

Patel128 wrote: »

1) There is no way for you to know that you will get only 1 question from each ICND1 topic.
2) ICND2 does not reteach the ICND1 topics. That makes no sense.
Nevertheless I am just trying to help, but it seems you are set on your path. Hope you pass.

Have you even picked up and went through the ICND2 book chapter to even know if it re-introduces each and every topic as if it is the first time you are reading it(excluding basics like subnetting)? No? Guess what, I have and am holding the book now. Do you even have the ICND2 book? Even of you do, I know you have not read it because you are perpetually doing ICND1 so please if you are so distracted as to post on something you are not an expert about, try to refrain because might miss something FACTUAL ! Anyway, good day either way..and I know this helped a lot of people!

Patel128

Your right that I have no fully gone thought the ICND2 book. I am just giving my 2 cents. Either way do what you want to do I just wanted to help you out.

networker050184

Illumanati wrote: »

The basics are reintroduced here that were introduced in ICND1 and the majority of your simulations are going to come from the above, its common sense. The sims are weighted heavier. Do you really think you are going to have more simulations on ICND1 subjects like the OSI or creating basic routes etc versus above? No, you will get 1 question from each of those ICND1 topics. This is composite exam so it is true what they say, the composite will have less questions overall as has been stated before.

So you are basically just guessing here. You don't know how many questions from each subject are going to be on the exam nor do you know how they are weighted.

This is not sound advice for anyone looking to take the exam and certainly not for anyone that is actually interested in learning everything and not just pass the test.

Illumanati

The meat of the CCNA is right here below in the ICND2 book and I will illustrate that with this point: You can get through ICND1 with NO labbing. This is the point is that ICND1 is practically given away once you master subnetting. Just look at ICND2, its ALL labbing folks so get busy, you have NO choice!!

Chap 1 Virtual LANs
Chapter 2 Spanning Tree Protocol
Chapter 3 Troubleshooting LAN switching
Chapter 4 IP routing: Static and Connected Routes
Chapter 5 Variable Length Subnet Masks
Chapter 6 Route Summarization
Chapter 7 Basic IP Access Control Lists
Chapter 8 Advanced IP Access Control Lists
Chapter 8 Advanced IP Access Control List
Chapter 9 Troubleshooting IP Routing
Chapter 10 Routing Protocol Theory
Chapter 11 OSPF
Chapter 12 EIGRP
Chapter 13 Troubleshooting Routing Protocols
Chapter 14 Point to Point WANs
Chapter 15 Frame Relay Concepts
Chapter 16 Frame Relay Configuration
Chapter 17 Virtual PRivate Networks
Chapter 18 Network Address Translation
Chapter 19 IP version 6

networker050184

You can get through the whole thing without labbing if you really want to. Plenty people have scraped by and passed only reading books.

The question though is if its a good idea and I think everyone (except maybe you) is in agreement that its not a good way to go about it.

shodown

You have to have time on the CLI to get a job. It just makes since to do it while studying to reinforce what you are learning. The goal goal of studying is to pass the test, but don't you want the cert to better your job?

zrockstar

Illum, dude, give up on this idea. 100% of the people in this thread with CCNAs (including 2 with CCNPs) are telling you that your instructor's study recommendations are not good. If you want to go for your composite by ignoring ICND1 studies, then more power to you. But don't recommend that method to others because it is way unconventional. People could stumble on the thread years after it is active and blow $250 trying to get their CCNA after reading one ICND2 book. I promise you, there is more to the composite than ICND2 material and I know of a couple ICND1 topics that will destroy you on the composite if you don't know them solid. Maybe not in all cases since the bank in random, but at least in mine. Which also brings up the point that maybe your instructor got lucky and got mostly all ICND2 questions. I don't know, but there is too much chance in there to go in only reading one book designed for half of the test.

Illumanati

shodown wrote: »

You have to have time on the CLI to get a job. It just makes since to do it while studying to reinforce what you are learning. The goal goal of studying is to pass the test, but don't you want the cert to better your job?

Yes, Cli exp. I am not saying to ignore ICND1 or bypass it, simply that you need CLI experience and not lab experience. There is a difference between the two and I am sorry if chugging the Cisco koolaid has made a lot of overzealous posters oblivious to this.

@networker how about you introducing me to one or two of these people you claim have passed the entire ccna without labbing. I doubt I will get even one so I am not holding my breath.

again, you only need to look at the table of contents of icnd2, which I have posted to see what part requires MORE labbing versus CLi experience which was my only point.

good day and happy labbing if you are interested in ccna either way.