WHY would people recommend Compatia+ first?

makronik

Hello peeps, it is me AGAIN (oh no!). Got couple of questions to ask, maybe this will be my last questions about networking ^^.

Q1. Why would professionals in networking recommend comptia A+ to newbies, like me? Is it easy? does comptia+ cover stuff that is easier to understand?

Q2. After completing Comptia A+, should i do CCNA? or just do CCNA WITHOUT comptia A+

Q3. What is difference between ICNDA 1 and ICNDA 2 in cisco? , if I pass ICNDA 1 will i be fully certifined in CCNA ? or do I need to pass both :E?

Slowhand

If you're heading into networking-work, then either the Network+ or Cisco's CCENT is the way to go. The A+ certification is PC repair and Windows troubleshooting, something that is quite useful to have under your belt in general but definitely more targeted towards someone going into a helpdesk or sysadmin role. The reason I recommend people to start with CompTIA certs like A+ or Network+ is simple, they're still very much recognized in the industry as entry-level credentials and they cover a lot of good basics that prepare you for more in-depth material.

networker050184

makronik wrote: »

Q3. What is difference between ICNDA 1 and ICNDA 2 in cisco? , if I pass ICNDA 1 will i be fully certifined in CCNA ? or do I need to pass both :E?

Check out the exam objectives on Cisco's website for a run down on the two exams.

If you complete ICND1 you will be CCENT certified, not CCNA.

TehToG

ICND1 and Network plus are quite similar also, ICND1 is much harder though. At your level you might not have alot of formal computer knowhow and thats why A+ is a good base.

makronik

Well, I will start with CCENT first. Will that give me basic knowledge and more confidence to get the full CCNA? after IF I pass the CCENT exam first, so I understand know how the exam works now, if I complete Cisco 640-822 ICND1 I will be certifined as a Entry level Network Technician and after completing ICND2 I will be certifined as CCNA. Well I am 18 years old and I think that IT networking is the way to go. I loved the topics when I studied networking in College

ptilsen

If you definitely want to head down the networking road, skip Comptia altogether. I will always recommend the trio (A+/Net+/Sec+) for people going down the sysadmin road, but A+/Net+ make no sense for networkers. Just jump right into ICND1.

makronik

Okey, thanks for all your advices!. Its good that I picked this forum, in order to get help. I will probably bookmark this forum so that I can share or get help if I am stuck .

lantech

I'd actually recommend the Comptia certs first. There is a guy where I work that has had really no training or experience in IT at all. He decided to go into a CCNA class at the school he is going to. He had a very difficult time with the class and ended up dropping out of the class because he didn't have a foundational in any area of IT and found the class to difficult to keep up with.

Get a good base first and then move up to the CCNA. Course if you can just get the CCNA more power to you.

I word of note though about the CCENT. I don't think any employer considers the CCENT an entry level cert. I think the only one that does is Cisco and probably won't help you find a job.

At least with the Comptia certs you might be able to find a job in IT to start gaining some experience that will help you have a leg up over the next entry level person that is applying for a position that doesn't have any experience at all.

Roguetadhg

ptilsen wrote: »

If you definitely want to head down the networking road, skip Comptia altogether. I will always recommend the trio (A+/Net+/Sec+) for people going down the sysadmin road, but A+/Net+ make no sense for networkers. Just jump right into ICND1.

Why wouldn't A+/Network+ make sense?

networker050184

A+ doesn't apply to networking, and while Net+ does, you are much better served doing the CCNA if you want to work in the networking industry.

I think a lot of people get mixed up between learning and certifying. Should people learn the basics? Of course, but that doesn't mean they should spend close to $300 on a Comptia certification that is going to do little to nothing for their career.

Roguetadhg

True. "learning" the foundation is the best thing to do. But you don't really need to spend the money on the test.

I think of Certifications as a validation of the knowledge, not so much the "goal". Although it is... in a way. To know enough to pass the certification, to maintain the knowledge and move on to know more.

ptilsen

Agreed completely, Networker. To expand on that, I don't think you'll get much in the line of useful basics out of studying for A+/Net+ that you won't get out of ICND1 material. I don't see them as knowledge prerequisites for CCNA.

I will agree with lantech that getting the Comptias can be a faster path to immediate employment. CCNA can take a good deal of time and effort for someone just starting out, and for many, that's a lot of time spent not working at a better job.

However, I will still advice against Comptia for anyone truly set on networking. If you know enough to know that's what you want to do, you should be able to get CCNA fast enough. Getting A+ and some crappy helpdesk job might get some experience, but it will barely be relevant to your actual career.

For someone unsure of what they want to do, I would recommend getting the A+ and then the job, then either Net+ or CCNA from there. I recommend Net+ for working up to sysadmin and generalist roles, but I still think it's a waste of money for a networker. It doesn't have that much market value, anywhere, period, and really has none for true networking roles. For more general roles, I think it's a great primer to networking as it applies to administration and support.

makronik

The thing that I got skill and knowledge in the IT industry, both Software/Hardware side. XHTML/CSS / Python/C++ all the crap that I wasted my time on for nothing. I did cover topologies types and LAN. WAN,MAN, bla bla build computers, yes. lets say I got , :Basic theory about networking: , but I would say, If I want to get into netowrking industry, I would start CCENT first as it is the entry level, which probably mean that topics will cover basic stuff, such like devices topologies again and then it further in chapters it will get more technical

makronik

and after passing CCENT, which is ICND1 exam, I can pass ICND 2 which will make CCNA out of it

goldenlight

Have you checked out the Cisco Discovery Route. This seems like it design for folks that don't know much about networking..
Here is link If I can post links Curriculum of the Cisco Networking Academy - Cisco Systems

gdeusthewhizkid

Hey man listen, Take it from someone that's just getting into the networking side Get your a+ get into IT get a few years experience and start pursuing your network+/Security+ while working. THen get your CCNA and move into some entry level networking jobs. Noone is going to hire you without experience or without that CCNA. It's a double edged sword. You will feel better about getting into networking with a well rounded skillset that you will get from A+/net+/Sec+. Trust me.

makronik

gdeusthewhizkid wrote: »

Hey man listen, Take it from someone that's just getting into the networking side Get your a+ get into IT get a few years experience and start pursuing your network+/Security+ while working. THen get your CCNA and move into some entry level networking jobs. Noone is going to hire you without experience or without that CCNA. It's a double edged sword. You will feel better about getting into networking with a well rounded skillset that you will get from A+/net+/Sec+. Trust me.

So what you are saying is that, I should first study Comptia+, Net+ and Security+ after doing the exams, I probablly pass, because I see loads of people say its much simpler etc. AFTER i pass this, will i get a chance of a job? what do employers think about these certificates?

lantech

It depends on the job you are looking at. If you're looking at network engineer jobs then they are probably going to require more specific certifications such as CCNA or MS certs for sys admin jobs. But they are good for entry level positions.

Even the jobs I've seen for NOCs want some level of experience in IT. Doesn't mean you can't get a job in a NOC without experience but if you're up against other candidates that do have some level of experience and the same certs who do you think they will look at first?

Michael2

I don't know why pros would recommend CompTIA Network+ first. I think the Cisco certs are a lot more relevant and useful. I guess they're thinking of it as a gentle introduction to the world of networking. I don't see any reason you couldn't just go for CCNA.

f0rgiv3n

There's two different views on this....
The issue at hand is you need to avoid OVER-certifying yourself. One thing you need to understand is that when you walk out the door of the certification room with a CCNA, no one is going to be standing on the other side waiting to give you a job. It's just like a degree in IT. It is VERY hard to leave the university with a bachelor's in networking and go get a job in networking with no experience. It's more of a build-up. You have to start somewhere.

I have seen quite a few people go straight into a CCNA expecting it to be easy to "jump" into a networking position, this is not the case.

The networking field is the underlying infrastructure for all IT. If you understand networking, you pretty much understand how all the rest of IT communicates. The issue I have with going straight for a CCNA with no other IT experience is you won't have any knowledge/experience with the real-world stuff.

What i mean is that a great network engineer can understand what the end-user is seeing and also translate that into what is going on in the backend. If you don't grow those troubleshooting steps by starting out with A+, Network+, or IT Technician job then you will have a hard time relating the end user problems to the network itself.

My opinion is that starting out with a job like an IT tech, or something of the sort will give you the opportunity to see a corporate network in production as well as how the end-users and nodes interact. A CCNA with no experience might not be "over-certifying" you per say, but don't go into it expecting to get a network engineer position right after you get that certification. You might still have to take a help desk position or something similar to start out and build that experience... and in order to get that help desk position, A+ and Network+ would get you that extra "oomph".

networker050184

I don't agree that everyone needs to work on the help desk or do the A+ to be a good networking professional. I doubt I could pass the A+ exam, and have never worked on a help desk and I'd say I'm pretty good at relating to problems and troubleshoting network issues. I think getting a CCNA and trying to get a NOC job is much more suited to working in the networking industry and a A+ and help desk job is good if you plan on going down the systems admin route.

Roguetadhg

I think it really boils down to how much experience or current mindset does the other person have.

Someone who doesn't know how to troubleshoot computer issues could more easily discern that it's something with the lower OSI layers. I think A+ gave me a better idea of how to see the larger forest and how a very cheap PSU can be a very expensive fix down the road. I guess what i'm trying to say is - It gets you into the mindset. Much like a programmer has a different-ish mindset than doctors. The same lies with taking way possibilities. but knowing what the possibilities are, and how they could affect the others is key.

Read the material. Make sure you have a good understanding of the topics. Move on with the next area. An example is skipping classes with testouts. If you don't have a good wide-eyed view, you might want to dig deeper.

As far as A+(Linux+)/Network+/Security+ goes. I think that's a matter of introduction to the other fields. Each, with it's own trunk - or a pie chart.

Orange = Security+ = C|EH/CISSP/CCNA:Sec
Entry Level: Security+

Red = Network+/CCNA = Cisco/Juniper.
Entry Level: CCNA

Yellow = A+/Linux+ = Microsoft/Apple/RedHat
Entry Level: A+/MS??

Black = Project+ = PMP
Entry Level: ???

Each has it's own countless fields of stuff you can do.

I still say go through the material just know it's there. You may not particularly care about how Windows boots up, or how many ways you can get to the control panel... I say: get a firm grasp (Wide-eyed view) of what's going on with the three areas. Testing is optional.

Linux, for example, for me - I should actually put more time into than I do. Which to say, I don't put any time with Linux. Now, I know how to do a single command by heart - ifconfig. But when it come to changing IP, scouring the CLI, using wine.


My recommendation (Read CompTIA) is for those that:
1) Don't know what they want to do.
2) Don't have experience.
3) Just want to get "any" job.
4) Need direction
5) May expect to wear multiple hats at work I]Networking, Sys Admin, Security Specialist[/I

Testing Optional. Although, It certainly doesn't hurt to have Entry-Certifications if you're trying to get your foot somewhere.

f0rgiv3n

Excellent info Roguetadhg, I agree 100%. networker, my apologies, when I said "help desk, IT tech" I guess I sort of include NOC in there when I was thinking about it as well. To each their own though with regards to understanding the "Wide-eyed view" that Rogue talks about. That's also what I agree with, by studying the basics of other areas it gives you a very unique point of view.

Roguetadhg

True. Not everyone cares, or needs to care about the wide-view. I'm not pointing guns to your head and saying "You Will."

I care about the wide view. It's my nature to want to know how the pieces all work together. I like seeing the big picture while understanding the small details. It makes me feel warm inside

It's why I've been reading and enjoying it! ... urgh. I still can't believe I said I'm enjoying reading. I need to go back Team Fortress 2, Civilization 5, or both. Not like it take 10 minutes to cycle through a single turn :P

ptilsen

Roguetadhg wrote: »

I need to go back Team Fortress 2, Civilization 5, or both. Not like it take 10 minutes to cycle through a single turn :P

To go completely off-topic, if all the time I spent on Civs 4 and 5 had gone into studying, I would have my MCSE 2003, MCITP:EA, and probably be well on my way to CISSP.

Roguetadhg

I just got around to beating Skyrim.. using the console to rush my bum through the entire thing as well as the Expansion pack. I know I'll put in weeks of killing dragons, wandering the lands, hoarding everything possible... Such a good game. I would like to buy the Expansion for Civ 5, but like Skyrim, I have a fond time of completely owning my land.

I'd like to see them take Civ 5 into space. Colonization of other planets. Earth Versus Mars in a galactic space fight using the moons... Im getting ahead of myself here.

I guess I really Gamed myself out with WoW. I just haven't felt "happy" with many games. I don't know if it's because of the disappointments story-wise or what. Even Skyrim I felt "meh" about the story, especially the civil war quest. I was expecting more effect from it. I'm trying not to spoil things here.

Anyways. Comptia:
Read it. if you don't know what you want to do.
Dodge it. if you already have a job, and know what you want to do.

vanquish23

When your in a NOC or Control Center, its good to know server hardware, which is where the A+ comes into play.

Ltat42a

When I was studying for Net + & CCENT, I believe they are very similar. Net + gives you the foundation of networking in general. CCENT takes that foundation and applies it to Cisco hardware.

networker050184

Depends on the NOC. When I speak of a NOC for networking experience I'm not speaking of one that deals with servers. The term NOC is used pretty vaguely though.

makronik

Hmm, I decided that I will self study Comptia+ Security and networking, and then pass the exams. After I will go the recruitment agency and look for a support job, so that i get the exeprience and while i will doing that, I will start CCNA . at the momment I am doing Bsc Honours in IT for 3 years, I maybe in 3 years time I could start a SOLID networking job

networker050184

You should go try to find a job now. Don't wait!