is a degree over rated

truckfit

The title says it all.

are degrees over rated

dave330i

Degree in basket weaving: yes

Degree in engineering: no

CISPhD

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End of thread.

charlemagne

Degree in engineering or technical field will be the foundation. Just consider, for example, when you apply for a position who you will be competing against. People need to research the target field they want to work in, what skills/education is required, and use this as a baseline to make a choice. Talk to people that actually hire and ask.

It's not about over rated or not. It's about what you want in your career and what it takes to achieve it. If a degree is required then choose wisely and do what you have to do to achieve your personal goals. It's about choice regarding degrees: Choose something that is marketable. There's a reason why M.D's aren't usually unemployed. Same with Petroleum Engineers. Actually, choose wisely and you'll probably not need 20 certs after your name (really...this is discussed on other sites, again, you ever wonder why a surgeon or pharmacist doesn't need an annual "cert goal"? They chose wisely). But, more often than not a degree in a technical/scientific field is useful.

ajs1976

You do not need a degree to prosper in this field but having a degree helps and can help a lot. No degree < non tech degree < tech degree < tech degree from an elite or respected tech school.

charlemagne wrote: »

(really...this is discussed on other sites, again, you ever wonder why a surgeon or pharmacist doesn't need an annual "cert goal"? They chose wisely).

I'm not sure about pharmacists, but most doctors and other professionals don't have cert goals but the do have CPE requirements to retain their license.

paul78

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My neighbour is a pharmacist. It varies by state in the US, but most states require that registered pharmacists complete minimum annual continuing education.

But I think the general sentiment is that a degree doesn't hurt. But in IT you can succeed without it. But like in the majority of most professions, in order to keep current, some level of continuing education is required.

@truckfit - why do you ask? Different people have asked variations of this question on this forum many times. Most times, there is some circumstance that would add context. Whether a degree is over-rated or under-rated in IT largely depends on an individual's circumstance in life.

Ivanjam

truckfit wrote: »

...are degrees over rated

In a very narrow sense, yes - in situations where people assume that simply having a degree automatically qualifies one an expert in the field of the degree. In other posts persons have touched on the other factors, apart from a degree, that make one a professional in any field - experience, peer ratings, licenses, etc. Additionally, there is also a rather widespread tendency to believe that anyone with a PhD is an expert on every field under the sun.

sratakhin

I think having a degree (no matter in what) can at least guarantee that the person is not dumb.

charlemagne

My point is: Generally, a degree is better than no degree. Exceptions to this are numerous but I'm speaking generally. Second point: Degree or no degree all depends upon your personal goals (each person is different) and target industry. Again, I mentioned in my post that it's important to know who you might be competing against when applying for a position. Sometimes experience will win because on a resume you can highlight precisely what you have accomplished and this is important. Each industry is different. Each HR manager is different. It can be quite subjective. All I'm saying is, if you have a career goal, have a target industry/company in mind, then research what it will take to be competitive in your particular area of interest. It's not complicated. If you meet the criteria for a certain position then that is what matters. Whatever the case, clear goals and knowledge of what it takes to be considered "competitive" in your chosen field is something that any job candidate should know. That's all I meant.

ptilsen

sratakhin wrote: »

I think having a degree (no matter in what) can at least guarantee that the person is not dumb.

I disagree. Having a degree in something from a good school is at least a reasonable indicator that a person is not dumb. I don't think it's ever a guarantee, and in the case of bad schools (read: non-regionally accredited schools), it's not even an indicator.

That is not to say I am opposed to degrees. In this field, a CS, EE, or similar degree is golden, both in what you'll know and what it will do for you. An unrelated or semi-related degree in at least a respected field is also valuable. You can succeed without a degree, of course, but that doesn't make degrees overrated. You can succeed just as much without any certifications, but that doesn't make certifications overrated. Both have contributory relationships with success, so both are valuable.

CISPhD

Ivanjam wrote: »

Additionally, there is also a rather widespread tendency to believe that anyone with a PhD is an expert on every field under the sun.

Thank God for that!

Iristheangel

Depends what your expectations are, Truckfit. If you expect to be magically bless with a six figure job right out of school, then yes, a degree is certainly overrated because reality will fall short of your expectations. If you expect your degree to open doors that previously were not open, then the degree is not overrated at all. It all depends on what you were expecting out of your degree. I would say that having a degree never hurts but not having one can hurt you.

wes allen

Yep, I think "it depends" is the right answer. If you want to be a teacher, then a degree, perhaps even an advanced degree, is required. Want to work in an enterprise with a HR dept that requires a degree, you will need one. Otherwise, maybe you don't need one and the time/money you would have spent can be put to better use. You need to do an ROI on what your goals are for sure. Getting an in state degree at an accredited school probably still has a positive ROI, though not as much as it once was. Dropping 100k a year for an out of state school, maybe not so much of a positive ROI.

pinkydapimp

A degree is definitely not overrated because it gives you flexibility. A computer science degree for example is a great foundation for an IT career. No, it will not teach you how to setup a domain. But it teaches you the fundamentals of how computers work and logic behind it. IT is a field that is constantly changing and required you to keep your knowledge up to date and adapt to these changes. Having a degree shows the employer you are able to learn and apply yourself.

Really, at the end of the day, you want to set your self apart from the competition. Sure you can make good money in IT without a degree and with tons of certs and experience. However, if the industry changes and you need to get into a new IT role, and that role requires a degree you are in trouble. I saw people for years saying you don't need a degree in IT. Then, once the market got tough, tons of these people lost their jobs and had(many still have) trouble finding a new one. Id be curious to know the number of these folks with and without degrees.

I agree with most of the comments above that it depends on your situation and ultimately your long term goals whether or not a degree is the best option for you. However it most definitely is not overrated. My suggestion is if you want to do your best at ensuring a long IT career, get a degree.

undomiel

A degree is nice to have. Going into debt to get it is not. If you can't cash flow it then look to certifications and experience until you can.

wes allen

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Agree. Valuable - yes. Worth going $50k or more into debt over - maybe not.

twodogs62

Degrees will get you positions that a non degreed person would not be considered for.

Remember that degrees as well as certifications are a foundation.

The learning never stops.

kurosaki00

Science degrees? never

Am I the only one that looks at college degrees more like personal/academic achievements rather than PLEASE GET ME A JOB paper?

There is no one ticket to $$$$$-land
not certs, not degrees. They merely are part of your resume and help you build yourself.
You have to sell yourself in the end and have to proof that you know what those papers say you know

twodogs62

Many places will throw away resumes if you have no certs or degrees.
Having degree will give you more options.
I have seen the issue several places I have worked.
No degree typically results in hourly paid position and a degree with qualify you for a salaried position.

CISPhD

Interesting article on the ROI of college educations: Money Matters: Can You Truly Calculate the Return on the College Investment? | LinkedIn

Plantwiz

"It depends" is almost always the best answer.

However, are degress overrated? How good at what you do are you? You will not need a degree to be a consultant, however, not having a degree may keep you from landing some large contracts with certain municipalities. In other cases, it may depend upon the people you know and who can help get you into certain contacts. Which is why 'networking' (the people form) is critical for success.

And if you are great at what you do, mingle with the right type of people and people like you, you can be extremely successful without ever going to college. What college does for many people is it introduces them to 'people' they will meet later in life...you'll call on old college acquaintances and make connections because of going to a certain school. And that doesn't mean Ivy leage only...it works great with state schools and local community colleges.

Success is what you think it is, not how or what others define it as for you.

I think our elementary schools and high schools are under-preparing our kids for real world situations (despite all the advertising, I'm seeing the fallout) and there will likely be fewer and fewer who can pull of the 'no college degree' and make a career move....but I do think it can happen for a small few. Most will likely need to attend college and actually earn a degree, but for those who don't like that option, I think if you have the work ethic, and the desire to work hard, you can achieve all you want and more.

martaw

I have a two year degree from a local technical college. I did not want to go to a school that was a bunch of theory. I wanted to do what I would actually be doing in my career... plus I did not want to have it take severals years... AND I did not want it to put me in debt. In my state (back then) you could go to a local school for free provided you had a certain GPA.

I got a two year degree in computer networking... went from a very low level of knowledge to being exposed to everything from PC hardward, various protocols, Windows, security, infosec, etc and I got my CCNA. No it's not a full bachelors... just associates, but I learned a lot, fast, and there was no debt involved. I actually got my first IT job as a result of a job fair the school had.

Don't think I could do the whole bachelor's route... maybe unless I wanted to go into the business side of things and it looked like it would be required. Otherwise, it has worked out pretty good with just an associates.

powerfool

The 4-year bachelor's degree has become the new baseline for anything beyond unskilled (retail, fast food, janitorial, etc). and specifically skilled (plumbing, hvac, welding, etc.) labor. Yes, there certainly are exceptions to this and some of them are quite extraordinary, other not so. Today, pretty much "everyone" has one. So, it is worthless? Yes, in that it doesn't get you much, right? But no, in that it is almost a requirement. How people have been feeling about high school diplomas is essentially where we are now with undergraduate education.

It is simply raising the bar. Today is the last day of the last semester for my master's degree. A new colleague of mine were speaking Friday about education and he went for his MBA because everyone has a BS. So, the folks that would have sought college 25+ years ago are the folks pursuing master's degrees now.

discount81

sratakhin wrote: »

I think having a degree (no matter in what) can at least guarantee that the person is not dumb.

Disagree VERY strongly.

I have met plenty of stupid people with degrees, even with prestigious degrees from very good Universities.

My friend once dated a girl who had completed her law degree from the top university in the state I am from.
I still think she is one of the biggest morons I have ever met in my life.

I am sure she was fantastic at memorizing what was in the law books and passing exams, but that does not make one intelligent, simply hard working.
30 years ago a degree pretty much guaranteed that person was intelligent, however in modern society nearly everyone has a degree, and you can get a degree in nearly anything it has become so standard now.


In my opinion there is only a few things you should go to University for.

Medicine, Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, Science, Mathematics, Teaching, Advanced Business and Economic study and a few other things.

Most of these generic business and marketing type degrees are garbage in my opinion, you could go to a business school and get a diploma that is worth far more in the real world than a BA in Business from some places.

IT depending what you want to do, no you don't NEED a degree, one of the best programmers I know does not have a degree.
There are some guys out there with CCIE in their early 20s because they began studying that in their teens, I guarantee those guys are making way more money than someone with a CS Degree is at 35.

sratakhin

Discount, I didn't say that having a degree somehow makes the person more intelligent. By not being dumb I meant that the person can at least read, do simple math and write at an acceptable level. Decades ago, a high school diploma could prove it, but it's not the case anymore. No child left behind

Akaricloud

Getting a degree certainly has some value but whether or not it's worthwhile really depends on the person.

For most people getting a degree is the necessary motivator in order to better themselves in areas that they wouldn't normally focus on. If your math, English, logic, deductive reasoning, and other general skill sets are on par with the rest of the uneducated population then a degree would definitely do you a lot of good.

There will always be exceptions to this but from what I have seen about you, I would definitely recommend that you pursue a degree just like most other people should. The exceptions are always quite easy to pick out.

lsud00d

Akaricloud wrote: »

There will always be exceptions to this but from what I’ve seen about YOU, I would definitely recommend that you pursue a degree.

He's a special guy

VAHokie56

I love these threads and I think the answer to...

truckfit wrote: »

are degrees over rated

is...depends on who you ask

goldenlight

Its overrated in the beginning of your career journey. Unless you are going to be a doctor or lawyer. It really only comes in handy if you want to be pushed to the next salary level.

My Advice Get a Associates from a Technical School, study for the CCNA While you are there. Then Get a job. At least you will be able to put food on the table after leaving.

Racketing up 4 years of debt after high School is just not worth it.



AS long as you earn your Bachelors before you start a family and you will be ok.

lsud00d

goldenlight wrote: »

Racketing up 4 years of debt after high School is just not worth it.

Or you could do good in high school, get a quality 4 year education for free or very close to it, then come out of college and step straight into a salaried/full-benefits position

CISPhD

goldenlight wrote:

Its overrated in the beginning of your career journey. Unless you are going to be a doctor or lawyer. ....snip....

I tend to disagree with this statement. Having attended school for a bachelors immediately following high school opened up a lot of doors for me. The subsequent 150$/mo tuition bill was easy to stomach considering others my age were making 11$/hr while I was in the 60K$/yr range. After I moved states to take an even better paying job (again, thanks to my degree as I had no certs), I went back to graduate school for a MBA and a MISM. Once I completed these degrees, I took a yet another job (six figure salary) in the same area, all still without any certs. As I sit now in the final stages of my dissertation at the age of 26, I have absolutely no regret at my choice to attend school not only to the level of undergraduate, but graduate and post-graduate in tandem.

Degrees open doors, and it certainly never hurt anyone to have a degree sitting behind their name. The very open ended question asked by the OP leaves room for a great deal of debate. Had the OP provided greater content around their aspirations towards management v. techy, field of study, or 5 - 10 year goals, we might be able to better answer his question. As that isn't true, I won't say your answer is incorrect by any sense of the word, but rather a single twig in the broom of possibilities available to a high school grad. Getting an ASc and tagging some certs is a quick way to get some scraps on the table, but may not be the best for everyone. I, personally, had higher aspirations, and my particular path has paid off quite well.